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Ozark- Netflix

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On 9/9/2018 at 10:44 AM, El Guapo said:

Finished Season 2 this morning. Didn't enjoy it nearly as much as Season 1; in fact I came close to giving up on it about 2/3 of the way through. As others have said, too many plot holes, too much suspension of belief, too many crises that required too many highly problematic dominoes to fall in exactly the right order to resolve. And that overdone dark lighting. They had some of this stuff it in Season 1 but stretched them to the breaking point in Season 2.

 

 

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Don't want to repeat what others, particularly Gandorf have said, because I largely agree. I found the Ruth character to be more contradictional than conflicted, if that makes sense. She's smart enough to see that the cousin is smart enough to "get out" of the family traps, but not smart enough to see that she's smart enough to do the same? And she's still trying to steal from Marty, a guy she knows is helping her and trusting her, up until what, the last couple of days? Because her daddy, who she knows is a screw up and who literally robbed her, expected her to because she's a Langmire? Sorry, I didn't buy that.

Also, the failed hit by the cartel on the Snells. Paid assassins firing multiple machines guns into the car, and the only shot that lands happens to hit Mr. Snell in a non-vital area of the chest? Driver is unscathed enough to just drive off? Didn't buy it.

The whole Snell thing got stupid. The baby thing was stupid. Much of the FBI agent's storyline was stupid.

 

 

man, i forgot about the failed hit.  that was exactly what i was saying when it happened - not only does the wife not get hit at all, but the husband gets hit once and doesn't die.  and the driver - the person you'd likely hit first since you were fucking firing from the front - is totally fine to speed off.  get the entire fuck out of here.  i find it hard to believe that a woman like helen (was that her name?) would hire such incompetent guys.

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19 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

 

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man, i forgot about the failed hit.  that was exactly what i was saying when it happened - not only does the wife not get hit at all, but the husband gets hit once and doesn't die.  and the driver - the person you'd likely hit first since you were fucking firing from the front - is totally fine to speed off.  get the entire fuck out of here.  i find it hard to believe that a woman like helen (was that her name?) would hire such incompetent guys.

 

Spoiler

Yeah cartels don't miss and leave anyone alive if they're trying to kill you. Your fucking dead. That's what they do. That part was pretty stupid even for tv. 

 

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The dumbest part is the same fucking personnel and the same fucking Tahoes are involved in 3 fucking incidents.  I know law enforcement in the Ozarks is supposed to be dumb as shit, but c'mon...that shit/those shits gonna stick out like a sore fucking thumb.  

Edited by Lobo

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the hit was easily the stupidest part of the entire season.  they absolutely lit that car up with thousands of bullets.  none hit the driver, darelene, tires, engine...nothing incapacitated the car and snell only takes a single through and through?

that was completely retarded.  if you wanted to make it plausible for them to survive, the hit needed to be much smaller.

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Midway through here and I agree with the comments.  It's good but far from great, lighting is frustrating, and the plot is a stretch to say the least.

I'm growing tired of all these streaming shows being labeled "great" and when I get into them, I'm highly unimpressed.  Part of what makes a show "great" is a story/plot arc rather than just a premise.  How does the story begin, progress, and end?  (Breaking Bad, The Shield, The Sopranos, etc.)  Even with Lost, which got way off track, there was a definitive ending the writers were always working to.  They just had to increase the filler in between due to season extensions.

How does this show end?  Hell if I know.  It's like the writers started with some premise of big city money laundering meeting some hillbillies, and they're already lost about where it's going.

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next season is kansas city mafia and the navarro cartel going to war.

first thing marty should have done when wilkes bent him over on the right to work state stuff was call the kc guy and tell him what was going down and just offer to buy them off.  waiting around for the kc guys to get wind and get pissed/feel like they were fucked over was not in line with marty's modus operandi.

apparently, there's no local news in the ozarks reporting on the epidemic of cold-blooded murders and shootouts happening to occur in the open on the streets.

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7 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

(Breaking Bad, The Shield, The Sopranos, etc.)  Even with Lost

those shows were built around characters (add mad men too).  typically great shows that last are that way. 

this show was built around the premise, and for the most part, the characters are shallow and static.  they change their motives and contexts but they don't change themselves.  the engine of the show is a series of outrageous obstacles, which by definition gets more and more difficult to believe and deal with for the viewer.

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I finished a couple nights ago.

It's entertaining, but at heart it's kind of a big dumb action flick presented like a top shelf drama.  The failed hit was also my biggest eye roller.  Just wildly unrealistic, which would be less insulting if presented as cheese.  The acting is really good, and they do a good job of keeping you drawn in.  You just have to realize going into it that it's completely not realistic, and totally implausible.

The river boat part was just absurd.  Anyone who knows anything about river navigation knows that there was absolutely no way to get a boat like that upstream from Cape Girardieu to Lake of the Ozarks.  The Bagnell Dam doesn't even have locks.  It would have to be hauled by a semi or something.

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19 hours ago, sidis said:

next season is kansas city mafia and the navarro cartel going to war.

first thing marty should have done when wilkes bent him over on the right to work state stuff was call the kc guy and tell him what was going down and just offer to buy them off.  waiting around for the kc guys to get wind and get pissed/feel like they were fucked over was not in line with marty's modus operandi.

apparently, there's no local news in the ozarks reporting on the epidemic of cold-blooded murders and shootouts happening to occur in the open on the streets.

Exactly.  Just tell them he had to say it was non-Union, but then just give all the jobs to Union guys anyhow.  Super easy and of the same consequence to KC.

I guess at that point he still planned on bailing to Australia or whatever.

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I like it, but it has too many flaws to ever be great.  Marty would have been murdered by the cartel a dozen times already for the stuff he tries to pull.

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3 hours ago, kevwun said:

I like it, but it has too many flaws to ever be great.  Marty would have been murdered by the cartel a dozen times already for the stuff he tries to pull.

Even the idea of a legalized casino is enough to make the Cartel hang tight and review.  It's obvious but bears repeating, it's the last easy way to launder money in the U.S.  Now if Marty and his son start getting into crypocurrency to stay in the Cartel's good graces-then yeah, I'm out.  The reason the mob likes casinos is the skim.  They launder their money through union contracts, not casinos.  They're too stupid to pull anything like this off though so they wait for casinos to open up near mob cities and then come in for a piece.  But the reason the cartel would beat the mob is very simple and it happens in real life all the time---it's sinful and illegal, but the Cartels at least create wealth.  They grow and distribute a product and experience that wouldn't exist but for them.  The mob just waits for industry to pop up (be it legal like union labor or a casino or illegal like bookmaking and extortion), and they just bleed the shit out of it until they can't anymore; all the while adding no value whatsoever, in fact they kind of hinder growth by their very presence.  

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Finished season 2 last night and thoroughly enjoyed it.  I like Linney's character and her rise to do what needs to be done.  I like Bateman, but his character got fairly unlikeable in my opinion by failing to do some obvious stuff that would have better protected his family.  His depression and struggles with moral ambiguity got a little tired since it consumed him the entire second half of the season.  If he knew he could eventually disappear with his family, he could have just fully embraced the bad guy stuff until he was far enough along to get out.  His wishy-washiness seems to put his family in even more danger than if he just let those who would harm them that he has the fucking cartel behind him and to leave them the fuck alone or face the consequences.  He could have had the cartel destroy the fucking Snells at any time, but he didn't, and actually gave the lady Snell a fucking baby.  Just have them fucking kill her!  She's the most loathsome character, and it pissed me off that she's still alive. 

While I liked the show, I agree with the comment about the failed hit.  That was fairly ridiculous.  Even if it could plausibly occur that way, they could have killed them easily at any time thereafter.  The tiny boat also is kind of ridiculous for a casino that's supposed to employ a ton of people .  I commented last season about the overall problems with the casino concept for money laundering, but I'm over that.  I still liked it overall and am looking forward to next season, which I'm sure will be approved. 

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On 9/12/2018 at 3:33 PM, sidis said:

next season is kansas city mafia and the navarro cartel going to war.

first thing marty should have done when wilkes bent him over on the right to work state stuff was call the kc guy and tell him what was going down and just offer to buy them off.  waiting around for the kc guys to get wind and get pissed/feel like they were fucked over was not in line with marty's modus operandi.

apparently, there's no local news in the ozarks reporting on the epidemic of cold-blooded murders and shootouts happening to occur in the open on the streets.

It takes 3 seasons and 13 hours per season to get to that?  That's what I'm talking about.  That's almost 40 hours of programming.

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i am now remembering a conversation i had with the wife during the show...

her - kansas city mob?  is that a thing?

me - yeah, the guys in kansas city secretly controlled all the casinos in las vegas.

her - what?  why from there?

me - kansas city was as far west as the big mob bosses could go without getting arrested.

 

and it was all in joe pesci's voice.

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I liked it better than Season 1. It’s a fun ride, but full of holes so it’s hard to get too ravey with the review. I’m sure I’ll enjoy binging Season 3 but I’ll likely forget about it until then.

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honest question- how do those who admit to loving it also admit that it's full of holes and ridiculous storylines? i've never liked, or what's more really enjoyed/loved any program that was full of plot holes and ridiculous storylines.

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1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

honest question- how do those who admit to loving it also admit that it's full of holes and ridiculous storylines? i've never liked, or what's more really enjoyed/loved any program that was full of plot holes and ridiculous storylines.

Suspension of disbelief.  You can find plot holes in any show or movie, if you try.    If I wasn't so lazy, I'd challenge you to find a show you love and I will poke holes in the plot for you.   (and point to several 'dumb' decisions made by a 'smart' character) 

That said,

Spoiler

the mob hit with machine guns firing from different angles...firing literally hundreds of bullets into a normal car with 3 people inside, and nobody getting seriously injured was the most ridiculous thing the show has done in 2 seasons.   A dozen ways they could have demonstrated a 'failed hit attempt'.   

I do like how the show resolves the big 'main' problem.   Adding a casino to launder everyone's money was a novel idea in season one.  And getting it through legislation, with all the hurdles involved in something like that, was interesting to me.  And something I hadn't seen that on a tv show before. 

The details of the story were often contrived or just bad, but the main story arch was original and interesting to me.    

Edited by Monster

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7 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

honest question- how do those who admit to loving it also admit that it's full of holes and ridiculous storylines? i've never liked, or what's more really enjoyed/loved any program that was full of plot holes and ridiculous storylines.

You accept that it's just pure fiction and lower your expectations.  Good acting makes up for a lot of the shoddy writing in spots.

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Seriously, every show and movie has plot holes and things that defy reality. Action movies are the worst, but damn some of them are entertaining.

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honest question- how do those who admit to loving it also admit that it's full of holes and ridiculous storylines? i've never liked, or what's more really enjoyed/loved any program that was full of plot holes and ridiculous storylines.

 

Some people enjoy vacation while others will dwell on busy airports, sub optimal weather, and ill fitting pillows. Sometimes a critic needs a break, too.

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there's a threshold i can deal with.  this whole show is kinda built on believing a few "unbelievable" plot-points.  once you're on board with that, you can enjoy the show.  but then when they throw smaller, totally unnecessary scenes at you (like the failed hit), it makes it harder.

it also helps that it's a binge show, so i'm only dealing with it for a few days.  if it was a weekly show on network and i was dealing with it for 3 months, i may have more issues.  it can be frustrating to deal with something for a week while you wait until the new episode.

i still find it fascinating that people can enjoy a show in two completely different ways based on how they consume it.  i watched lost as it aired, from the start.  went on hornfans, went all over, read reviews, read insight, theories, etc.  derka went back later, and binge'd it.  he didn't have to wait a week to see what happens.  or wait months after they busted open the hatch.  same show, two different views of how the story unfolded.

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On 9/14/2018 at 11:07 AM, henrygandorf said:

there's a threshold i can deal with.  this whole show is kinda built on believing a few "unbelievable" plot-points.  once you're on board with that, you can enjoy the show.  but then when they throw smaller, totally unnecessary scenes at you (like the failed hit), it makes it harder.

it also helps that it's a binge show, so i'm only dealing with it for a few days.  if it was a weekly show on network and i was dealing with it for 3 months, i may have more issues.  it can be frustrating to deal with something for a week while you wait until the new episode.

i still find it fascinating that people can enjoy a show in two completely different ways based on how they consume it.  i watched lost as it aired, from the start.  went on hornfans, went all over, read reviews, read insight, theories, etc.  derka went back later, and binge'd it.  he didn't have to wait a week to see what happens.  or wait months after they busted open the hatch.  same show, two different views of how the story unfolded.

 

Totally agree on the binge aspect. Having a week to harp on plot holes and just general issues with how a scene is handled would drive me nuts.

 

I was late to the party on Mad Men and Breaking Bad (I got caught up right before the last season), I was watching on average 2 or 3 episodes a night, I would have gone crazy having to wait a week between some of those episodes, which is what happened with Breaking Bad. 

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Agree with most everything said - both positive and negative.

Stupid question.  And, yes, I feel like Vern Tessio for asking but, how or why would such a little amount of Fentanyl mixed in with such a large amount of heroin, cause overdoses?

Also, I don't think Ruth was the only contrarian on the show.  Perhaps this annoyed me more than others.  For example, redneck matriarch spent half the show on preservation and the other half doing exactly the type of thing that would ruin it.  Blue Cat's former owner comes back as a crackhead and spends half the time trying to screw Marty over and half the time falling in love with him?  Yes, I get being conflicted but it was distracting.

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11 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Agree with most everything said - both positive and negative.

Stupid question.  And, yes, I feel like Vern Tessio for asking but, how or why would such a little amount of Fentanyl mixed in with such a large amount of heroin, cause overdoses?

Also, I don't think Ruth was the only contrarian on the show.  Perhaps this annoyed me more than others.  For example, redneck matriarch spent half the show on preservation and the other half doing exactly the type of thing that would ruin it.  Blue Cat's former owner comes back as a crackhead and spends half the time trying to screw Marty over and half the time falling in love with him?  Yes, I get being conflicted but it was distracting.

I think "hillbilly" is the preferred nomenclature.  That is, if you like your skull in one piece.

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13 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Blue Cat's former owner comes back as a crackhead and spends half the time trying to screw Marty over and half the time falling in love with him?  Yes, I get being conflicted but it was distracting.

 

I hated this story line. She was a good minor character in season 1 that they basically gave the most predictable story line and ending. 

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On 9/12/2018 at 10:55 AM, sidis said:

the hit was easily the stupidest part of the entire season.  they absolutely lit that car up with thousands of bullets.  none hit the driver, darelene, tires, engine...nothing incapacitated the car and snell only takes a single through and through?

that was completely retarded.  if you wanted to make it plausible for them to survive, the hit needed to be much smaller.

Yeah... I struggled a lot with this too. One guy with a shotgun missing okay.

A hit squad not completing a hit knowing it would cost them their lives, plus the car pulling away, and only one person getting hit, in the shoulder. 

Pffffffffft

No.

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44 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

I hated this story line. She was a good minor character in season 1 that they basically gave the most predictable story line and ending. 

After the hit, the way they worked that ark was second most unrealistic testing the bounds of my suspension of disbelieve. 

Her timing showing up is mad sketchy, she asks a lot of questions, hit on him, clearly has some substance problems, and wife is openly against her.

Yet Marty isn't paranoid as fuck, creates a Treat her nice shes a snitch approach??? 

Well then, Marty is challenged. I mean that as in, sub 65 IQ

Edited by BurntEyes

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On 9/13/2018 at 11:05 PM, Lurch said:

I liked it better than Season 1. It’s a fun ride, but full of holes so it’s hard to get too ravey with the review. I’m sure I’ll enjoy binging Season 3 but I’ll likely forget about it until then.

1234

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I’m glad it was dark for Darlene’s sex scene.

That said, this show is a good example of how there are loads great female roles and actors these days. You don’t have to go force them into Star Wars, for example.

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That’s a good point. Ruth is the best character on the show, and it’s not forced in a “WE NEED GOOD FEMALE CHARACTERS GIVE HER PURPLE HAIR” way.

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you have to understand the difference though.  these were written as female parts, so they work and make sense in the overall narrative.

in other projects, they're written as men, and a bunch of producers get involved, and a couple parts get changed to women, and people are confused why they just don't quite work.  when someone says, "can this character be a woman?"  the answer always is, "of course, i'll get right on that."

women watch more tv than men (apparently).  women "control the remote."  there will be a lot more women roles in tv shows moving forward.

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23 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

I’m glad it was dark for Darlene’s sex scene.

That said, this show is a good example of how there are loads great female roles and actors these days. You don’t have to go force them into Star Wars, for example.

I could have gone for a "lights on" young Darlene sex scene.

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I'm just on episode 3 and I'm already frustrated, but it's still entertaining. All the mixed reviews here are just about right...

 

What's her hillbilly face extorting that old man for his business was pretty silly, as was his reaction, like they really needed to build that up for a 3 minute-shot climax. The FBI agent is also annoying as hell, what a trope. Just copy/paste scenes with the FBI dude from 'The Shape of Water' and call it a day, we already know his character.

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Overall I enjoyed Season 2.  

Dark lighting was completely annoying. Add this to the mumbling trend and its unbelievable that an industry built on audio/visual entertainment seems hell-bent on producing a product you cant hear or see

 

The size of the Casino was a big laugh inducer for me.  What your going to launder millions through a Casino that can seat 15 people?

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^

A lot of people ask me how my small casino makes money; they inquire about how we can effectively launder so much cash.

One word:

Volume

Edited by Lobo

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4 hours ago, Incredulity said:

The size of the Casino was a big laugh inducer for me.  What your going to launder millions through a Casino that can seat 15 people?

Yeah, that made me snicker. Unless they were going to add a huge barge (which they aren't) that boat is about 1/8 the size they need for a small casino.

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On 9/4/2018 at 1:35 PM, Not a cat said:

I liked the callback when the cartel lawyer calls the snells rednecks and Marty casually says something along the lines of "I'd choose another word, if I were you."

Has anyone mentioned how dark the lighting is? 

Also, it's starting to get just a bit much that every episode seems to have some insurmountable obstacle placed in front of the Byrdes but somehow everything just falls into place for them to barely fix it.  Oh, we're having trouble with the KC mob?  Well luckily the strange skinny dipping old guy that happens to be a squatter in your property has some major connections from back in his Detroit days. 

Breaking Bad says hello 

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1 hour ago, Lobo said:

^

A lot of people ask me how my small casino makes money; they inquire about how we can effectively launder so much cash.

One word:

Volume

+ rep for the snl reference.

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On 9/13/2018 at 9:05 PM, Lurch said:

I liked it better than Season 1. It’s a fun ride, but full of holes so it’s hard to get too ravey with the review. I’m sure I’ll enjoy binging Season 3 but I’ll likely forget about it until then.

Just finished it and feel the same.  Recommend me a new show until season 3.

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I love Ruth, when she punted the dude in the wheelchair and then kicked the kid in the nuts after calling her a mouthy cunt - funny shit

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53 minutes ago, Quagmire said:

I love Ruth, when she punted the dude in the wheelchair and then kicked the kid in the nuts after calling her a mouthy cunt - funny shit

 

Her character and how good the actor is that plays her make up for a lot of the plot holes. Without her the show goes way downhill. 

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On 9/18/2018 at 8:16 PM, Knoxtnhorn said:

 

Stupid question.  And, yes, I feel like Vern Tessio for asking but, how or why would such a little amount of Fentanyl mixed in with such a large amount of heroin, cause overdoses?

 

Fentanyl is orders of magnitude more powerful than most opiates/oids and is dosed in micrograms while others in milligrams.  So a very small amount would suffice to render a gram, ounce or even kilo of heroin a fatal hotshot.  However, I don't believe it comes in pill form, so that was BS.

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On 10/4/2018 at 1:57 PM, JimmyHoffa said:

Her character and how good the actor is that plays her make up for a lot of the plot holes. Without her the show goes way downhill. 

Julia Garner was on Seth Meyers promoting Dirty John and freaked him out with her Ozark accent. 

 

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8 hours ago, RPM said:

Julia Garner was on Seth Meyers promoting Dirty John and freaked him out with her Ozark accent. 

 

 

Saw that. Too damn funny the guy waiting on her was scared. 

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I’m finally trying to finish off season 2, currently on episode 8. I don’t see myself watching season 3 because I just don’t find it that enjoyable. There are 2 main reasons:

1. I don’t like any of the characters. Wendy has become insufferable and a beating to watch her scenes, the Snells are horrible people, Ruth is a whiny hillbilly brat who has been completely deflated since her father’s return, Rachel is a junkie narc, and Agent Perry is pathetic and incompetent. Marty is still ok except that every scene with him is wide eyed panic mode and it’s growing tired. I like shows with a dark tone as long as they give me someone to root for (i.e. Jesse in BB) and Ozark has me wishing that every character would die, except the kids of course.

2. The plot is slightly less believable than watching Mary Poppins pull a grand piano out of her bag. This was a criticism I had of season 1 but I decided to give the show a second chance, then it only got worse. Let’s see...
-Building a casino for the mutual benefit of a Mexican drug cartel, redneck opioid farmers, and Arkansas businessman/politician
-Building a casino on land that is actively used for illegal drug production and has multiple murder victims buried
-Inserting oneself into state politics overnight to have a bill passed to legalize the building of a casino
-Digging up old bones and magically sneaking them into the medical examiner’s office in place of other bones
-Convincing CPS to give you someone else’s baby in the middle of the night
-Killing the father of said baby and writing it off as though he fled town
-A twelve year old kid laundering $1.8MM through an offshore account

My eyes roll so much that I’m dizzy by the end of an episode. Shows like Breaking Bad and The Americans would put their characters in perilous situations and then create clever escapes for them. Ozark tries to do that but the writers lack the ability to keep anything grounded in reality and the Byrdes survival has become comical. Maybe the next time Marty is backed into a corner, he can forecast the Powerball numbers to pay off some debts. Or turn into a werewolf and eat Darlene Snell. I can suspend disbelief but only so much.

I’ll read back through the thread when I finish the season.

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Interesting take on not liking anyone.  I was watching the great "You Can Count on Me" and my wife walked by the TV and said she hated Laura Linney.

Which was wild because Laura Linney has always been one of my favorite actresses. 

I would enjoy the series more if the two main characters were allowed a little room to breath, because I like both of them.

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