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Things not going well for Joe Biden

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He's being called out for being a dirty old man:

I felt him get closer to me from behind. He leaned further in and inhaled my hair. I was mortified. I thought to myself, “I didn’t wash my hair today and the vice-president of the United States is smelling it. And also, what in the actual fuck? Why is the vice-president of the United States smelling my hair?” He proceeded to plant a big slow kiss on the back of my head. My brain couldn’t process what was happening. I was embarrassed. I was shocked. I was confused. There is a Spanish saying, “tragame tierra,” it means, “earth, swallow me whole.” I couldn’t move and I couldn’t say anything. I wanted nothing more than to get Biden away from me.

https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/an-awkward-kiss-changed-how-i-saw-joe-biden.html

NOT SO FAST

In a Medium post released late Sunday, Stephanie Carter addressed a viral photo in which Biden had his hands on her shoulders and appeared to be whispering in her ear during the swearing-in ceremony for her husband in 2015.

“As the sole owner of my story, it is high time that I reclaim it — from strangers, Twitter, the pundits and the late-night hosts,” Carter wrote. “I won’t pretend that this will be the last of that picture, but it will be the last of other people speaking for me.”

Carter said Biden had hugged her because he sensed she was “uncharacteristically nervous” and leaned in to thank her for letting her husband serve in the Obama administration. The then-vice president, she added kept his hands on her shoulders “as a means of offering his support”. 

“But a still shot taken from a video — misleadingly extracted from what was a longer moment between close friends — sent out in a snarky tweet — came to be the lasting image of that day,” Carter added.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/apr/01/donald-trump-latest-news-mueller-report-border-politics-live

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"It wasn't creepy to me personally" isn't really a way to excuse it being creepy and uncomfortable to other women. 

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Posted (edited)

This is a generational thing.  That doesn’t excuse the creepy behavior but according to some older women I talked to the creepo touching wasn’t as big a deal back then.  They said they almost expected it and if it didn’t happen it was almost a slight. Don’t get me wrong, they’re very glad it’s unacceptable now and it should have been back then but it was a different time.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz

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"And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything." 

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Democrats just can't help but take each other's legs out 

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Lol I remember my old Economics professor Chesney saying "I don't want any Joe Bidens in here" on every test day referring to some academic scandal that surfaced when he ran in 88. Now it would have another meaning....

 

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Dems probably learned their lesson about supporting candidates who are way past their "use by ____" date with HRC.  

HRC lost her chance when she lost to Obama.  Biden lost his chance when he sat 2016 out. 

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13 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

"And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything." 

That's pretty good but it doesn't beat this:

LBJ:  (Nixon's) White House economic policies were “the worst thing that’s happened to this country since pantyhose ruined finger-fucking.” 

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I’ll pass on Joe.

Too old. Too creepy. Plus his treatment of Anita Hill and his shitty crime bill.

And I haven’t forgiven him for not running in 2016.

And why is this a thread? We’ve been discussing Joe and his issues for months in the Democratic 2020 Nominee thread.

I’m already on record that if he declares he’ll be bombarded with negative stuff. With 40+ years of service anyone is going to have baggage.

His good will is built on the superficial Uncle Joe persona and Obama nostalgia.

Once voters look past that - especially with the current climate of me too and distrust in the criminal justice system and acceptance of LGBTQ rights - his baggage becomes an anchor.

He’ll be done by Super Tuesday.

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He'll be done within 2 weeks of announcing his candidacy.  The negative press and overall reaction from voters will be swift and devastating. 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Democrats just can't help but take each other's legs out 

Joe's not my preferred candidate, but it is a little alarming how eagerly his Democrat opponents jumped on the years old Republican talking points.

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6 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Joe's not my preferred candidate, but it is a little alarming how eagerly his Democrat opponents jumped on the years old Republican talking points.

it was a bipartisan pounce.  can't you see how this country is finally uniting? 

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5 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

To be fair, women’s hair does smell pretty damn good. 

You've never been to a farmer's market.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Js1 said:

"It wasn't creepy to me personally" isn't really a way to excuse it being creepy and uncomfortable to other women. 

True enough, but 1) there are some reasonable, objective standards of creepiness (and I don't think Biden's actions here come close to that), and 2) Flores said that intent has absolutely nothing to do with it. Hold on there, Flo. Within some boundaries of reasonableness, intent does have something to do with it. So imo Flores is full of crap with that statement.

Not to support Biden full-throttle, but this complainer comes across as whiny. He smelled your hair? He kissed the top of your head? Wow. The humanity.

 

** edit to add**

And i'd much rather have a guy like Joe Biden in the lives of my female relatives than some phoney like Mike Pence who won't even meet alone with women. How's that for fairness in the work force?

Edited by Asithappens

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10 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

You've never been to a farmer's market.

Au contraire, sir, I learned everything I know from farmer’s daughters. 

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How unpresidential.  Seriously, that falls way below the standard of conduct we should expect from true presidential material.

He should have just grabbed her by the pussy.

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If I'm not cool with Trump being gross and creepy, I can't be cool with Biden being gross and creepy.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is a generational thing.  That doesn’t excuse the creepy behavior but according to some older women I talked to the creepo touching wasn’t as big a deal back then.  They said they almost expected it and if it didn’t happen it was almost a slight. Don’t get me wrong, they’re very glad it’s unacceptable now and it should have been back then but it was a different time.

If any of this is true, it should be easy for you to find hours of evidence of the exact same behavior from the dozens and dozens of Congressmen of Biden's similar age and experience. But it's not true, and you know it.

32 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Joe's not my preferred candidate, but it is a little alarming how eagerly his Democrat opponents jumped on the years old Republican talking points.

#MeToo is now a Republican movement.

Seriously, though, for a massive chunk of libs, #MeToo only mattered when it was taking out conservatives. Gillibrand is being punished to this day for calling out Franken and Dems were furious because Monica Lewinsky started talking again as #MeToo crested. We see that re-establishing itself now.

The solution is very simple and  very proper: Eliminate creepy male candidates.

You don't have to shoot them. You don't have to set them on fire. You don't have to write books excoriating them. You just forcefully tell them, "I'm sure your intentions were not terrible, but it doesn't matter, you don't get to be the most powerful person in the world and the leader of our party."

Stop playing scared.

The reaction from libs and Dems to Biden being (rightly) criticized for being a decades-established creep is eerily similar to Lindsay Graham's crying fit because Kavanaugh was almost going to be denied his right as a white man to be on the Supreme Court because some WOMAN said something.

And what are you guys even worried about? Is Biden some dynamic young firebrand whose profound message is going to unite and heal the nation? Is he a bold and visionary thinker whose policies will innovate us past our troubles? Is he universally lauded and respected as a noble leader with a long list of impressive accomplishments?

Edited by bad_teammate

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4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

If I'm not cool with Trump being gross and creepy, I can't be cool with Biden being gross and creepy.

Yup 

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A good barometer of whether or not something is pervy is asking if he'd have done that to a man.

Pretty sure Biden wouldn't have smelled another dude's hair before kissing him on the head.

Don't care if it's a generational thing. 

 

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1 minute ago, 406W30th said:

A good barometer of whether or not something is pervy is asking if he'd have done that to a man.

Pretty sure Biden wouldn't have smelled another dude's hair before kissing him on the head.

Don't care if it's a generational thing. 

 

Joe bought "Think and Grow Rich" and only read Chapter 10.

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

The solution is very simple and  very proper: Eliminate creepy male candidates.

That solution already exists: don't vote for them.

It's like term limits. We already have term limit solutions in place. It's called voting.

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If I'm not cool with Trump being gross and creepy, I can't be cool with Biden being gross and creepy.

Ok well one is sexual assault and the other isn’t.

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2 minutes ago, 406W30th said:

A good barometer of whether or not something is pervy is asking if he'd have done that to a man.

 

No, that's not a good barometer. 

 

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58 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

Plagerism torpedoed his 88 campaign. 

you can say that again 

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9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

f any of this is true, it should be easy for you to find hours of evidence of the exact same behavior from the dozens and dozens of Congressmen of Biden's similar age and experience.

You mean like George HW Bush, Bill Clinton, and all the creepy old men that have been exposed in the #metoo movement?  

Just because I can’t easily find a shitload of video evidence doesn’t mean it wasn’t a real thing for the boomer/great generation people.

I witnessed this type of behavior growing up by all kinds of older white guys with authority from college professors to church ministers. 

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You mean like George HW Bush, Bill Clinton, and all the creepy old men that have been exposed in the #metoo movement?  

Bill Clinton was not a public creep and neither was HW until he got so old his brain was actively decaying and he wasn't even aware of his actions.

Quote

Just because I can’t easily find a shitload of video evidence doesn’t mean it wasn’t a real thing for the boomer/great generation people.

I actually am a boomer. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Guys were definitely more openly flirty/demeaning in public and sexually coercive in private, but if you think men in public just walked around stroking and smelling strange women's hair as a normal matter of course and no one looked askance then you are so dumb you probably think Mad Men is a documentary.

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Just now, bad_teammate said:

uys were definitely more openly flirty/demeaning in public and sexually coercive in private, but if you think men in public just walked around stroking and smelling strange women's hair as a normal matter of course and no one looked askance then you are so dumb you probably think Mad Men is a documentary.

You’re being a dick.  The point is the lines were different when it came to flirty behavior back then.  Biden is a creepo and has always been a creepo.  His tactics were creepier than most but he got away with it because the lines were different back then.

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8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You’re being a dick.  The point is the lines were different when it came to flirty behavior back then.  Biden is a creepo and has always been a creepo.  His tactics were creepier than most but he got away with it because the lines were different back then.

“Back then” = 2014?

There is also a factor of degree in Biden’s creep.  A kiss on the head, or cheek isn’t the same as his stroking, sniffing, space invading  fucking weirdness.

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46 minutes ago, 406W30th said:

A good barometer of whether or not something is pervy is asking if he'd have done that to a man.

Pretty sure Biden wouldn't have smelled another dude's hair before kissing him on the head.

Don't care if it's a generational thing. 

 

So Pence can never be considered a creep?

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2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

So Pence can never be considered a creep?

Weirdo? sure.

I haven’t seen any video of him nuzzling the neck of a 13 yr old girl.  Biden on the other hand.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

“Back then” = 2014?

There is also a factor of degree in Biden’s creep.  A kiss on the head, or cheek isn’t the same as his stroking, sniffing, space invading  fucking weirdness.

Uh, that’s why he’s not getting away with it right now and why it’s an issue.  The times have changed, Joe Biden hasn’t.

This would have been a laughable story 30 years ago, sadly.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz

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He's weird uncle creepy. Beyond that exactly what does Biden bring to the table after how many years of gov't service that makes one think he's anything but an old school status quo democrat/ politician ?  He's never ben anything but a vote for me, and I'll go to Washington for you.

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1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

Weirdo? sure.

I haven’t seen any video of him nuzzling the neck of a 13 yr old girl.  Biden on the other hand.

 

 

 

Penis   That’s the joke.     

He’d do whatever to a man.  Especially Trump.  Read his definition of a creep.  

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1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is a generational thing.  That doesn’t excuse the creepy behavior but according to some older women I talked to the creepo touching wasn’t as big a deal back then.  They said they almost expected it and if it didn’t happen it was almost a slight. Don’t get me wrong, they’re very glad it’s unacceptable now and it should have been back then but it was a different time.

You discussed this with older women?

1 hour ago, 6th Street said:

"And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything." 

So here’s the difference and I’ll tie a sports example into things. The above is a quote, while Biden has tons of videos and pics of him online looking and acting creepy. There’s a difference in impact there. 

Look at how much more trouble and outrage there was for Ray Rice the Ravens RB when the video of his domestic violence came out versus other people who have gotten suspended but no long lasting outcry. The visual documentation makes it stick. 

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24 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You’re being a dick.

I'm telling you what it was like from the perspective of someone who was there. You don't know what you're talking about and you should be quiet. You are the lib version of "locker room talk".

In my decades in O&G, not exactly the most staid and proper business, a man in a position of power who regularly touched strange women, sniffed their hair, and invaded their personal space has never been considered the norm. We considered them creeps then. We allowed it, we didn't say anything, but it wasn't normal behavior that was just expected.

Quote

This would have been a laughable story 30 years ago, sadly.

What were you doing in 1989? Serious question, what is your actual, real life, frame of reference for what you think you're talking about?

11 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

“Back then” = 2014?

LEAVE JOE ALONE!

blueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.co

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4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Uh, that’s why he’s not getting away with it right now and why it’s an issue.  The times have changed, Joe Biden hasn’t.

This would have been a laughable story 30 years ago, sadly.

I think what he is fishing for is "do you approve of him and his behavior or not?"  You seem to be giving him half a pass but also half a fail.  You could just come out and say "it doesn't matter" like the trump people have with pussy grabbing, or say "Unwanted advances on women are unwanted and disqualify you from being a candidate.  If a woman is uncomfortable then you are in the wrong, regardless of era." 

Biden was doing this stuff when he was in the white house.  Either enable him or reprimand him already.

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A tip for those of you who think we should defend Joe because the right-wingers are attacking...

- Put them on ignore and stop letting them determine your values for you by just being reactive to them. They don't matter.

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Whatever gets his geriatric ass out of the race. Same with Bernie. These old fucks will be damn near 80 when their terms would start.

Take a seat. You played your role in Congress fucking up the US for long enough. Time to let fresh blood fuck us around.

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2 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

I think what he is fishing for is "do you approve of him and his behavior or not?"  You seem to be giving him half a pass but also half a fail.  You could just come out and say "it doesn't matter" like the trump people have with pussy grabbing, or say "Unwanted advances on women are unwanted and disqualify you from being a candidate.  If a woman is uncomfortable then you are in the wrong, regardless of era." 

Biden was doing this stuff when he was in the white house.  Either enable him or reprimand him already.

I don’t like Joe Biden.  I don’t want him to run for President but I’m not going to pretend like everyone should be outraged by this “scandal”.  Is it disqualifying? I don’t know.  If Biden was my candidate, I’d want him to confront this issue better, see the error of his ways, and apologize to the women he’s made feel uncomfortable.

 

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1 hour ago, Js1 said:

If I'm not cool with Trump being gross and creepy, I can't be cool with Biden being gross and creepy.

Rape/sexual assault and creepy aren’t the same thing.

And Biden still sucks 

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11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

A tip for those of you who think we should defend Joe because the right-wingers are attacking...

- Put them on ignore and stop letting them determine your values for you by just being reactive to them. They don't matter.

groverat -  come on guys!

giphy.gif

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

If I'm not cool with Trump being gross and creepy, I can't be cool with Biden being gross and creepy.

Sure.  The difference for me is that I'm not going to advocate ejecting every Dem candidate for prior actions that were more in the grey zone  at the time they were committed.  Anyone who thinks there isn't a smear campaign lined up for every D candidate is a fool, and it's quite important not to fall for the bait.

Here are some examples:  Al Franken could run for POTUS, and I'd be fine with it.  Joe Biden?  Fine with it.  Etc.

If the Republicans aren't going to reject Donald Trump, I'm sure as hell not gonna reject Joe Biden.  That's just fucking stupid.  (Well, I'll reject him, but not for allegations of being a creepy dude who did what he's been accused of.  Fuck that.)  If the opposition gets to vote for the philandering pussy grabber who can't go 5 minutes without lying, much less avoid financial dealings with the enemy, then I'm just not going to reject an old creep on those grounds alone.  I've said it 100 times -- the Dems HAVE TO learn to play dirty.  Their pathological need to take the high road is incongruous with getting people into the Oval Office.  I'm shocked Obama pulled it off.

Edited by jimmyjazz

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