Jump to content

CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk


Mrs Whiggins

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

These statements are not accurate representations of how the SK tracing system works. 

Those statements are accurate representations on what contact tracing could be like in the US if we had proper leadership.

But instead, lets be afraid of contact tracing because of “our visions of American Democracy” mixed with our belief there is only one way to contact trace.

Fear mongering is lame.

spacer.png

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Those statements are accurate representations on what contact tracing could be like in the US if we had proper leadership.

So you agree that a SK-style tracing system is not implementable in the US for a variety of reasons.  Progress in baby steps I guess.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

So you agree that a SK-style tracing system is not implementable in the US for a variety of reasons.  Progress in baby steps I guess.

 

I agree that fear mongering in the name of diluting blame towards leadership is just as bad as fear mongering out of ignorance.

Contact tracing won’t require Nancy Pelosi to see your sex dolls credit card purchases.

Watch this video. It is short and easy to understand.

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

Why is it strictly the purview of the conservatives to eliminate waste and redundancy? Seems like I remember a few calls from the left about waste. It is not about saving money. It's about whose ox gets gored. Take a gander at how much we spend on our inspectors. They don't make shit. That poor kid that could have shut my ass down for verboten palm trees didn't know what he was looking at. He walked right by. And yet we still get a crop every year of do gooders that want to make a difference. I should have italicized it. 

Trump has run off anyone that has some kind of purpose besides kissing his ass. He's the final stage of dumbing down. Birx could feel her soul slipping away. Thanks a lot conservatives.

It isn't the exclusive purview of a conservative party, or it shouldn't be.  But as a general proposition as between Liberal and Conservative (note the capital letters) political philosophies, one tends to favor (federal) government solutions and the other less so.

One thing I think we're going to find in the aftermath of Trump is a big expansion of government, for better and for worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

That article is nuts. Who has been shaming people for going outside?  I’ve walked my dogs every day this shit show has been going on. People are everywhere. Have some people really not left their homes?

I guess maybe in a massive city like NYC it’s different, just based on density, but the author mentions multiple places. 

Yeah, I have been mountain biking almost every day and see tons of walkers and runners.  It's been a good thing.

The playgrounds, however, are closed and sometimes taped off with crime scene tape.  Keeping people off benches, swings, and playground equipment seems like a sound idea, although maybe the virus wont live in the heat and sun, I don't know.

Edited by TwiceHorn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I agree that fear mongering in the name of diluting blame towards leadership is just as bad as fear mongering out of ignorance.

Contact tracing won’t require Nancy Pelosi to see your sex dolls credit card purchases.

Watch this video. It is short and easy to understand.

 

I got absolutely no problem with the concept of tracing and its value, so fuck right off with the continued "fear mongering" quip.

It is not fear mongering to point out that the extremely effective SK tracing system would not be acceptable to most Americans.  And after a little bit of schizoid posting and a pivot to talk about a different approach entirely, you apparently agree.

If you want to talk about specific techniques for tracing that would likely be acceptable in the US, and what strategies and policies would need to be used to implement tracing broadly and uniformly, I am all for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I agree that fear mongering in the name of diluting blame towards leadership is just as bad as fear mongering out of ignorance.

Contact tracing won’t require Nancy Pelosi to see your sex dolls credit card purchases.

Watch this video. It is short and easy to understand.

 

Another example.  

https://www.unacast.com/covid19/social-distancing-scoreboard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

1 month can mess up an institution, 3 years is long enough to completely change one.  I'm not saying that's what this admin did to the CDC or FDA (at least not completely), but to act like 3 years is some short time to affect change is crazy.  Continuity matters, and inertia is also important when looking at how change affects gov't bodies.  Institutional knowledge is a real thing, which is why continuity is important.  If you drain the swamp, or more apropo to this administration, insert your cronies in place of long standing professionals and call it draining the swamp, you lose institutional knowledge.  Wont matter when it comes to a lot of day to day functions, because the body can still largely self regulate with a change in leadership, but it matters a lot when edge scenarios come into play.  

Flu season?  Its as common as doing annual evaluations, the CDC doesn't really need any real direction to handle it.  The FDA doesnt have to make any hard decisions on approvals.  Novel, highly contagious virus?  We want all our pieces in play.  Budget cuts at the CDC hampered that response.  We lost positions in China that could have given us better info earlier.  We lost funding to state and local governments that could have alerted us to cases in the US earlier.  Is this a Trump issue?  Not entirely, the R's have been attacking the CDC's budget since before Trump came on board, but Trump is on board to continue those efforts.

Inertia is also important with gov't orgs.  They are like oil tankers, changes to course are slow, and take a long time to complete.  That's why this line of thinking is absurd.  

You cant spool up an effective national response to something like this quickly.  You need pieces in place at the start.  Assembling the team takes time.  Having the team establish their roles and start coordinating with national, state, and local orgs takes even longer.  The right way is to have that team in place, ready to fire, at all times.  The US government isn't a business, treating it like one is stupid. We don't mothball our military while they don't have wars to fight, because we understand the impact of not being prepared for a fight.  Rs have no problem pumping money into defense despite the fact that the chance of the military directly intervening to save US lives are slim because all of their work occurs OCONUS.  Yet somehow, mothballing our medical response is somehow a smart business move, even though it has the more immediate effect of saving citizens lives.  The CDC is a piece, and previous administrations recognized that it wasnt strong enough on its own and stood up the pandemic response team.  Trump's admin decided something different.  The change is on him. 

Government organizations have bloat.  They have dead weight.  Just like bigger companies have bloat, and dead weight.  Leaders impact that.  Trump wanted the big job, he gets the good and bad with it.  He has had 3 years to change things for better or worse.  Blaming previous administrations points to poor leadership on his part, because he didn't recognize issues and fix them.  He didn't appoint good people to steer those ships.  He didn't check on those ships to make sure they were on course.  You don't get to claim total authority and say you don't take any responsibility.  

From my armchair perspective, you also get a lot of small fires that no longer are extinguished that while causing minimal damage to the bulk of your populace, keep weakening the local government's capabilities and then when the conflagration of mammoth proportions is raging across the nation, you only have a couple of rakes and a jug of bleach. Oh, and maybe a roll of paper towels if HEB is open and has them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

I got absolutely no problem with the concept of tracing and its value, so fuck right off with the continued "fear mongering" quip.

It is not fear mongering to point out that the extremely effective SK tracing system would not be acceptable to most Americans.  And after a little bit of schizoid posting and a pivot to talk about a different approach entirely, you apparently agree.

If you want to talk about specific techniques for tracing that would likely be acceptable in the US, and what strategies and policies would need to be used to implement tracing broadly and uniformly, I am all for it.

Then get on the contact tracing train dickwad and stop fear mongering against some strawman to dilute blame from our current leadership

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Then get on the contact tracing train dickwad and stop fear mongering against some strawman to dilute blame from our current leadership

Never been off that train shit for brains. It's not fear mongering to point out that SK's system is not tenable in the US. That is not a deflection for Trump, it is intended to redirect posters citing the same shit about SK's response over and over to focus on alternatives that are actually realistic. Glad that you appear to have arrived there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Never been off that train shit for brains. It's not fear mongering to point out that SK's system is not tenable in the US. That is not a deflection for Trump, it is intended to redirect posters citing the same shit about SK's response over and over to focus on alternatives that are actually realistic. Glad that you appear to have arrived there. 

Uhhhhh...

Then why the constant masturbation towards SK and “visions of American Democracy.”  

We aren’t a third world country. We aren’t limited to implementing programs that have only been used by other countries. We aren’t retarded trailer mongoloids. SK can do it. So can the fucking US. The reason the US can’t do it has nothing to do with “visions of American Democracy” and everything to do with our current leadership. 

Insert masterbating trumpkin zombie pic

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Uhhhhh...

Then why the constant masturbation towards SK and “visions of American Democracy.”  

Another poster brought up SK's approach, suggesting that "they have shown us exactly how to do this in a democratic society".  I responded to that. Be best. 

  • Like 1
  • Fuck You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

That article is nuts. Who has been shaming people for going outside?  I’ve walked my dogs every day this shit show has been going on. People are everywhere. Have some people really not left their homes?

I guess maybe in a massive city like NYC it’s different, just based on density, but the author mentions multiple places. 

I live in NYC. People aren't shamed for going outside generally. They are shamed for not wearing masks and for gathering.

However, runners are the new cyclists when it comes to being inconsiderate assholes. They run on the sidewalks with no mask, don't try to maintain a safe distance from others, and suddenly everyone and their mom is running.  So what if you are moving faster. Its on you, not them, to distance yourself from other people on the sidewalk.

No doubt that considerate runners are shamed too, but that also happened with considerate cyclists that don't run red lights and follow traffic flow. If you are running over the brooklyn bridge walkway with no mask, you are an asshole. 

And there are also still clueless types talking on their phone while standing at an entry point or bottleneck instead of standing somewhere with less foot traffic. But there has always been a scourge of people that do things like stop and check their phone right when they get off an escalator.  It should be legal to sucker punch these types. Just get the fuck out of the way. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GW Hayduke said:

Easily. I would very much rather it be the government than Facebook.

They won’t need financial data. Stop fear mongering. Medical data would be limited (positive to a test, negative, antibodies).

GPS data would likely be stored directly on your device and purged after a set time period.

Fear mongering is lame.

insert pic of trumpkin zombies

Since when has not needing something prevented the federal government from trying to get it?  And you would actually trust that government would not have all this information filed away somewhere in safekeeping before it got purged? This idea sounds to me like the Coronavirus crisis version of the Patriot Act.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

It isn't the exclusive purview of a conservative party, or it shouldn't be.  But as a general proposition as between Liberal and Conservative (note the capital letters) political philosophies, one tends to favor (federal) government solutions and the other less so.

One thing I think we're going to find in the aftermath of Trump is a big expansion of government, for better and for worse.

Is it a government solution to regulate drugs that might get you high? Shall we go down the list of things that Conservatives want to regulate vs. what Liberals want to regulate? Because that's what solutions often equals. Solution for poverty is what? Trickle down?

Name me a Conservative solution that has worked as sold to us, because I'm still waiting for the largesse of the tax cuts to get to me. Y'know the ones way back with Reagan. I'm still trying to find wages that keep up with the cost of living. I've seen plenty of people locked up for weed. I still can't go to the liquor store today. We're still dealing with the Conservative solutions to moral questions. 

We've been over this before in a dozen threads. It comes back to the same lists. Conservatives want control of certain areas and absolutely don't want to be controlled in others. That they don't or were ever anything else than controlling from a federal level is absurd. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Jimmy, it's alright buddy.  Just go ahead and admit that you were just talking out of your ass. That will take much less time, energy, and effort than what will be a fruitless lit search. 

Ok my man. Just to get you to finally shut up about this so we can focus on our Biden Texas bet instead I will send you some articles this evening. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Is it a government solution to regulate drugs that might get you high? Shall we go down the list of things that Conservatives want to regulate vs. what Liberals want to regulate? Because that's what solutions often equals. Solution for poverty is what? Trickle down?

Name me a Conservative solution that has worked as sold to us, because I'm still waiting for the largesse of the tax cuts to get to me. Y'know the ones way back with Reagan. I'm still trying to find wages that keep up with the cost of living. I've seen plenty of people locked up for weed. I still can't go to the liquor store today. We're still dealing with the Conservative solutions to moral questions. 

We've been over this before in a dozen threads. It comes back to the same lists. Conservatives want control of certain areas and absolutely don't want to be controlled in others. That they don't or were ever anything else than controlling from a federal level is absurd. 

I'm not talking about failed GOP regulation/deregulation programs.  I'm talking big picture Liberal/Conservative, not Democrat/GOP.

Part of my post about needing a conservative party is a big C conservative party, not the fucking GOP.  You have no idea what Conservative actually means because we haven't had a Conservative party in 20-30-40 years.

I remain a big C conservative to moderate, not blindly oppose, the wonderful government solutions to everything that the Liberals are going to propose.  Recent GOP attempts to be actually Conservative have been mostly a failure, if they were even actually Conservative to begin with.  It doesn't mean that a healthy distrust of government is a bad thing.  Nor does it mean that the market is the solution for everything.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm not talking about failed GOP regulation/deregulation programs.  I'm talking big picture Liberal/Conservative, not Democrat/GOP.

Part of my post about needing a conservative party is a big C conservative party, not the fucking GOP.  You have no idea what Conservative actually means because we haven't had a Conservative party in 20-30-40 years.

I remain a big C conservative to moderate, not blindly oppose, the wonderful government solutions to everything that the Liberals are going to propose.  Recent GOP attempts to be actually Conservative have been mostly a failure, if they were even actually Conservative to begin with.  It doesn't mean that a healthy distrust of government is a bad thing.  Nor does it mean that the market is the solution for everything.

 

 I’m confused why you’re referring to that type of conservatism as big C conservative, not small c conservative.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

 I’m confused why you’re referring to that type of conservatism as big C conservative, not small c conservative.

Because it's the political philiosophy within the movement of classical liberalism.  Not GOP/Creepy Christian/Trump bullshit masquerading as conservatism. 

Of course the whole thing may be so theoretical as to be impractical in real life.

Edited by TwiceHorn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The buzzwords, (C)onservative and (L)iberal, mean very little. Currently, the GOP is entirely anti-government except for when it comes to military and law enforcement.

So while there could be some discussion on whether M4A or federally administered education is desirable, we don't have a GOP who is even sitting down to that table to discuss.  

Instead, we have a GOP that has been busy dismantling all public health governance, including the CDC, dismantling the department of State, and dismantling the EPA and the SEC.  None of these agencies are even remotely "socialist."  And this has been happening for 40 years. Trump is simply more transparent with it.

The GOP isn't even currently libertarian. Its anarchist. Even in a libertarian dream island, they wouldn't allow a resident to pollute the whole island.  All the landowners would get together and stop it.  One could even call this meeting a "government."

Personally, I'm leaning toward the "if they want anarchy, let's give it to them" solution, but we will see what happens in November. 

Right, I agree with most of this.

For example, "government is too expensive and often too intrusive" is a legitimate Conservative notion.  As you note, the way the GOP has pushed that notion, by unprincipled dismantling of the government (or principled in the form of making life easier for plutocrats) is disgusting and counterproductive.

But there are ways to approach that constructively, we just haven't seen them because there isn't a Conservative party.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Another poster brought up SK's approach, suggesting that "they have shown us exactly how to do this in a democratic society".  I responded to that. Be best. 

Its cool. Be better.

Instead of succumbing to a desire to masturbate fallaciously, stop yourself.

robot masturbating GIF 

Remember that if SK and other countries can successfully trace, the US can also, and it has nothing to do with "visions of American Democracy" and everything to do with incompetent leadership. 

Edited by GW Hayduke
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

Since when has not needing something prevented the federal government from trying to get it?  And you would actually trust that government would not have all this information filed away somewhere in safekeeping before it got purged? This idea sounds to me like the Coronavirus crisis version of the Patriot Act.

The federal government absolutely has your data already. Hell, even local cops use shit like stingray constantly to invade your privacy. Private companies are even worse. You don’t flip your shit when google uses all your info to figure out you want a toaster and starts advertising it to you, but using it to slow down a pandemic?  Outrageous!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Current death toll has surpassed 55K: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Recall that it's the weekend and some states and localities will not get full numbers until the week starts. Hopefully the peak is reached in the next 10 days or so. What are the chances that this pandemic would hit America during the worst presidency to date in history?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Current death toll has surpassed 55K: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Recall that it's the weekend and some states and localities will not get full numbers until the week starts. Hopefully the peak is reached in the next 10 days or so. What are the chances that this pandemic would hit America during the worst presidency to date in history?

Well we can only ensure one of those things doesn't happen.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Current death toll has surpassed 55K: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Recall that it's the weekend and some states and localities will not get full numbers until the week starts. Hopefully the peak is reached in the next 10 days or so. What are the chances that this pandemic would hit America during the worst presidency to date in history?

Anything under 200,000 means Trump is doing a fantastic job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

So the same people protesting for states to re-open will be the same ones who support Republicans and Trump trying to cancel or postpone the election in November because it’s “not safe” amirite?

How do I get a magic crystal ball like yours?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

Its cool. Be better.

Instead of succumbing to a desire to masturbate fallaciously, stop yourself.

robot masturbating GIF 

Remember that if SK and other countries can successfully trace, the US can also, and it has nothing to do with "visions of American Democracy" and everything to do with incompetent leadership. 

Nah, Ansastasis apparently believes the US is totally incompetent. 

And with his main man Trump in charge, he’s actually right about that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...