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A story about a pathetic man's downfall


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4 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

And I assume this will mean jack-shit as far as consequences for Trump.  What, he can't scam in NY anymore?  Boo fucking hoo, he has the rest of the nation to scam morons out of their life savings.  

I'm so sick of this cunt just skating through life, while stealing people blind and destroying democracy.  Fuck, fuck, fuck. 

Edited by DigglerontheHoof
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Just now, DigglerontheHoof said:

And I assume this will mean jack-shit as far as consequences for Trump.  What, he can't scam in NY anymore?  Boo fucking hoo, he has the rest of the nation to scam morons.  

I'm so sick of this cunt just skating through life, while stealing people blind and destroying democracy.  Fuck, fuck, fuck. 

You're not noticing that a hugely portion of the real estate he actually owns in fee simple and/or groundleases is located in New York State.  There is a strong chance this summary judgement gets interpreted as intended.  That is a death knell for Trump Organization.  It's not that they can't license new properties, acquire new properties, even do JV's or sidecar deals with a marketing juice on top.  It means they can't even take out mezz debt, a construction loan, anything like that to improve an existing property.  They can't do 1031 exchanges, their non-existent family office can't partake in real asset transactions in the state borders.  He'll find some wiggle room but the benefit of this summary judgement is he has to watch what little of his empire he actually owns rot before his dying eyes.  And there isn't a thing he can do about it because he doesn't have the liquid cash to prevent it.  He'll literally watch his golden towers green-over in real time.  God willing, it may be enough to physically break him.

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6 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

And I assume this will mean jack-shit as far as consequences for Trump.  What, he can't scam in NY anymore?  Boo fucking hoo, he has the rest of the nation to scam morons out of their life savings.  

I'm so sick of this cunt just skating through life, while stealing people blind and destroying democracy.  Fuck, fuck, fuck. 

Well, there was never much more at stake in this case than what has been found.  It's a civil case, there's no jail.

Having his business licenses and corporate charters revoked is pretty serious business, even if it isn't going to stop him in his tracks.  And, we have yet to see what kind of penalty/fine they're in for.  But he'll probably re-charter in Florida or Texas and that's going to cost him millions in legal and professional fees.

ETA: Probably best of all, though, his psychopathology began when he was not accepted by Manhattan society. He has largely eschewed them by now, but this means he's legally excommunicated from the State of New York and that's got to hurt his wil fee fees at a very deep level.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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55 minutes ago, AnTiM said:

My problem with the picture is that it says "CNN Breaking News", like this is some big surprise.

I didn’t know that the judge had found him liable for fraud so it was breaking news to me. The news isn’t that he’s a fraud. We all know that. We’ve all known that for years. 

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

ETA: Probably best of all, though, his psychopathology began when he was not accepted by Manhattan society. He has largely eschewed them by now, but this means he's legally excommunicated from the State of New York and that's got to hurt his wil fee fees at a very deep level.

So you think he'll stay up late posting insane rants on his social media platform?

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6 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I'll defer to your knowledge, Twice.  I just want to see that motherfucker in ruins. 

One other fun thing.  All/many/most of his NY chartered entities will lose their charters, apparently.

But I think this might mean that even if he recharters in Delaware or Texas or Florida, his entities will not be granted licenses to operate in NY.

Which means that if he gets sued for business done in NY, they can't defend themselves.  That could be fun.  Because as YGIFS notes, he has a lot of ongoing things in NY.

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2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

You're not noticing that a hugely portion of the real estate he actually owns in fee simple and/or groundleases is located in New York State.  There is a strong chance this summary judgement gets interpreted as intended.  That is a death knell for Trump Organization.  It's not that they can't license new properties, acquire new properties, even do JV's or sidecar deals with a marketing juice on top.  It means they can't even take out mezz debt, a construction loan, anything like that to improve an existing property.  They can't do 1031 exchanges, their non-existent family office can't partake in real asset transactions in the state borders.  He'll find some wiggle room but the benefit of this summary judgement is he has to watch what little of his empire he actually owns rot before his dying eyes.  And there isn't a thing he can do about it because he doesn't have the liquid cash to prevent it.  He'll literally watch his golden towers green-over in real time.  God willing, it may be enough to physically break him.

Unless I misunderstood, the Legal AF folks were saying that in 10 days both parties have to submit three options for receivership, to independently manage the property while preparations for restitution (i.e. state foreclosure and auction) are made after the civil penalties phase of the trial is over; additionally because of the state licensing removal, even if anything is left over after the forced sales (my guess is there won't be), everything will still need to be liquidated.  Bottom line, not only is he done in New York, so are the sons, and everything business related is placed into forced liquidation.  He's always grifted off a shell game of properties, not any more.  

Now they also said that given the severity of this judgment, it should be expected that a stay will be granted on this for judicial review.  While waiting some more makes me anxious, I get that.  However, after reviewing the judge's finding, they both expect appeals to be unsuccessful; and that's coming from 2 lawyers with significant experience in New York law.  

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

One other fun thing.  All/many/most of his NY chartered entities will lose their charters, apparently.

But I think this might mean that even if he recharters in Delaware or Texas or Florida, his entities will not be granted licenses to operate in NY.

Which means that if he gets sued for business done in NY, they can't defend themselves.  That could be fun.  Because as YGIFS notes, he has a lot of ongoing things in NY.

I wish I knew more about how this worked, but is this like a bankruptcy where the receiver is also charged with selling the properties that used to belong to the Trump organization? Because if the properties are going to be sold, right now is perhaps the worst time in the world to have a fire sale on New York City commercial and residential property.   

And help me out here, big brain people, would this also lead to a flurry of litigation against the Trump family personally, for whatever their role is in committing fraud to the point their business is shut down?   This has to be a stone thrown in the pond with a lot of ripples involving people who will lose money in various ways due to the receivership thing - who would not have lost money absent Trump’s illegal behavior.   i’m not talking shareholder derivative suits (I have no idea about his business dealings….I thought an LLC was the big entity. ).

But I do hope that shit stain and his family gets sued by a myriad of parties who smell blood in the water, and who want to have their judgment first in line against any Trump family members remotely responsible for their losses. 

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6 hours ago, BamaATL said:

Unless I misunderstood, the Legal AF folks were saying that in 10 days both parties have to submit three options for receivership, to independently manage the property while preparations for restitution (i.e. state foreclosure and auction) are made after the civil penalties phase of the trial is over; additionally because of the state licensing removal, even if anything is left over after the forced sales (my guess is there won't be), everything will still need to be liquidated.  Bottom line, not only is he done in New York, so are the sons, and everything business related is placed into forced liquidation.  He's always grifted off a shell game of properties, not any more.  

Now they also said that given the severity of this judgment, it should be expected that a stay will be granted on this for judicial review.  While waiting some more makes me anxious, I get that.  However, after reviewing the judge's finding, they both expect appeals to be unsuccessful; and that's coming from 2 lawyers with significant experience in New York law.  

I remember a few years  ago Scotland was rumbling about looking at the finances of his golf courses, saying it all looked sketchy. They fucking hate him over there. Seems like nothing ever came of it, but you’d think a ruling like this might make them want to take up another pass at his properties there and see what turns up. 

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6 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

I wish I knew more about how this worked, but is this like a bankruptcy where the receiver is also charged with selling the properties that used to belong to the Trump organization? Because if the properties are going to be sold, right now is perhaps the worst time in the world to have a fire sale on New York City commercial and residential property.   

And help me out here, big brain people, would this also lead to a flurry of litigation against the Trump family personally, for whatever their role is in committing fraud to the point their business is shut down?   This has to be a stone thrown in the pond with a lot of ripples involving people who will lose money in various ways due to the receivership thing - who would not have lost money absent Trump’s illegal behavior.   i’m not talking shareholder derivative suits (I have no idea about his business dealings….I thought an LLC was the big entity. ).

But I do hope that shit stain and his family gets sued by a myriad of parties who smell blood in the water, and who want to have their judgment first in line against any Trump family members remotely responsible for their losses. 

Well, I think what's happening to the now-banned entities is simply dissolution.  As we know, that can be done rather painlessly on a voluntary basis.  You're just shutting down a corporation/LLC for whatever reasons.

But this is INVOLUNTARY, court-ordered dissolution.  And, as such, a receiver is appointed, not to sell off assets for the benefit of creditors, but to supervise the dissolution and ending of business of the entity, making sure taxes are paid, creditors are taken care of, etc.  And when I say "creditors are taken care of," I don't really mean paid off, just that the obligations are transferred to the new entit(ies).

So, this is going to be a colossal and expensive pain in the ass, but it's not a liquidation of Trumpco assets or anything.

I do imagine that this judgment, and the associated ordered dissolutions would probably trigger loan covenants entitling many lenders to foreclose.  But, as you note, that would probably not be a wise thing for lenders to do, as it rarely is in big commercial lending scenarios.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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7 hours ago, BamaATL said:

Unless I misunderstood, the Legal AF folks were saying that in 10 days both parties have to submit three options for receivership, to independently manage the property while preparations for restitution (i.e. state foreclosure and auction) are made after the civil penalties phase of the trial is over; additionally because of the state licensing removal, even if anything is left over after the forced sales (my guess is there won't be), everything will still need to be liquidated.  Bottom line, not only is he done in New York, so are the sons, and everything business related is placed into forced liquidation.  He's always grifted off a shell game of properties, not any more.  

Now they also said that given the severity of this judgment, it should be expected that a stay will be granted on this for judicial review.  While waiting some more makes me anxious, I get that.  However, after reviewing the judge's finding, they both expect appeals to be unsuccessful; and that's coming from 2 lawyers with significant experience in New York law.  

As stated above, the receivers are appointed not for liquidation per se, but simply to wind up the affairs of the now banned corporations and LLCs.  The assets and liabilities will be assigned or otherwise transferred to whatever new entities are created in other jurisdictions.

No monetary penalty has been assessed, so there's no "receivership for the benefit of creditors" here to satisfy that penalty.  And, in the usual course of things, whatever monetary penalty is involved subsequently will first be subject to voluntary payment before any extreme creditor remedies are invoked (forced sales of assets, etc.).

One of the things that helps this decision is that it was appealed twice, once at the motion to dismiss stage, and again on statute of limitations grounds (mostly by Ivanka who had the benefit of not being an officer or director of any Trump entity as of about 2016, so that excluded her from the tolling agreement and put any of her actions outside the six-year limitations period).

So, a lot of clarity as to how the law that permits the AG to do this applies to Trumpco was achieved on appeal, so Engoron could follow the appellate courts and get it right basically the first time.  Ironically, a case frequently cited by the court of appeals was one involving Trump. Ha ha.

The one possible frailty I see in Engoron's ruling is that "banning" the entities from doing business in NY is the most extreme remedy available under the statute.  I could see a court of appeals not necessarily agreeing that this set of circumstances justifies that, given that no entities or persons apparently were harmed by the fraud.

Clearly, Engoron was pissed at Trumpco's usual pattern of bullshit, both in business and litigation, and rightfully so.  But the court of appeals reviews on a "cold record" and may not be persuaded that the harshest remedies are appropriate here.  Also, it tends to be unusual to begin imposing remedies like dissolution before final judgment.  That itself may be an error.

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16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I do imagine that this judgment, and the associated ordered dissolutions would probably trigger loan covenants entitling many lenders to foreclose.  But, as you note, that would probably not be a wise thing for lenders to do, as it rarely is in big commercial lending scenarios.

If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem.

-Getty

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A sidenote for the peanut gallery.  Fairly obviously, corporations (I use the term to include LLCs and partnerships) chartered in one state do tons of business in other states and that's all perfectly legal.

But most out of state corporations "register to do business" in those states in which they do a lot of business, have facilities or offices etc.  This mostly involves just filing some paperwork, paying fees, and having a registered agent for service of process in that state.

One of the benefits of registering to do business in a state is that you are then entitled to sue (and be sued) in that state for business conducted in that state.  If you are not registered to to business in a state, then you can't maintain a lawsuit in its courts, and, in most cases, you cannot defend yourself in a lawsuit in that state (assuming the lawsuit is properly in that state as arising from activities occurring in that state).  They also may not be able to obtain loans in that state, and other aspects of doing business there.

So, Trumpco can't have NY corporations anymore.  I suspect this also means that Trumpco entities cannot register to do business in NY, either.  That could be a real shit show for Trump.  It won't force him to liquidate NY assets, but it would make it quite difficult to carry on extensive business in the state.

ETA:  One important thing to add, though, is that it seems that only those Trump entities named as defendants will be dissolved.  He has dozens upon dozens of them and I'm not sure the order or judgment will extend to all of them.  That could be a sticky wicket here.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

I remember a few years  ago Scotland was rumbling about looking at the finances of his golf courses, saying it all looked sketchy. They fucking hate him over there. Seems like nothing ever came of it, but you’d think a ruling like this might make them want to take up another pass at his properties there and see what turns up. 

40f5e7b7-4ca6-4d82-94b7-7a8199268018_tex

 

It doesn't really make sense since Scotland Yard is in London, but I could see Trump letting a dog raise his kids.

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I do imagine that this judgment, and the associated ordered dissolutions would probably trigger loan covenants entitling many lenders to foreclose.  But, as you note, that would probably not be a wise thing for lenders to do, as it rarely is in big commercial lending scenarios.

I don't think you're giving Trump's very strong and powerful language in his loan agreements.  Very strong.  Some say the strongest.  I've only worked on a handful of dissolutions after workout failed, you've probably done 3 this morning.  But while it is rare for lenders to trigger in the face of a very public judgement against TrumpOrg.  All it takes is one to step forward to do it, and he's got enough enemies.  And there's already a room full of persuasive people talking to his lenders telling them if they go forward with this, there'll be plenty of business in it for them down the road.  And the House of Cards comes tumbling down once and for all.  His people can boycott parades and Bud Light and Sanctuary cities all they want.  But they can't boycott these private credit and i-bank platforms because MAGA dipshits aren't their customer base anyway.  You think Axos bank cares about a protest on their election to put Trump properties into foreclosure?  

Let's also not forget that at the height of his media fame ("The Apprentice"), Trump deployed "Trump Mortgage", which despite exiting before the 2008 financial crisis, still managed to run into the fucking ground in less than 3 years time.  Which is conveniently when he began his truly shady financial disclosure inflationary tactics that were judged earlier this week in New York.  

15 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

This is the judge in the NY fraud case.  Not all heroes wear capes:

judge-arthur-engoron-two-bridges-high-ri

I can't put my finger on it, but he just strikes me as the kind of guy that doesn't take a lotta shit in his courtroom or in chambers.  Doesn't seem like real "Um, I'll allow it...but watch yourself Ms. Powell..." type of judge.  

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I know that the Surly cabal hates Orange Man Bad.

But think about it.  Is it really a good thing to allow the gubmint to be a party to virtually every private business transaction?

I seem to recall that there used to be something about who had standing to make a claim in a court of law. 

Party A alleges that Party B breached their agreement with Party A.  Accordingly, Party A seeks to recover damages or other remedies against Party B.

I don't see that any of this stuff passes a full appellate scrutiny.

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I'm sick of these "victimless crime", "paid all his debts to the banks" arguments I'm hearing on twitter.

If a convicted child molester gets out of prison and rents a house across the street from a school or daycare, will MAGA not care unless he molests someone?

If a known substance abuser lies on a firearm permit about his current drug use, will MAGA not care that he didn't shoot anyone with the gun?  Oh wait...

 

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21 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I know that the Surly cabal hates Orange Man Bad.

But think about it.  Is it really a good thing to allow the gubmint to be a party to virtually every private business transaction?

I seem to recall that there used to be something about who had standing to make a claim in a court of law. 

Party A alleges that Party B breached their agreement with Party A.  Accordingly, Party A seeks to recover damages or other remedies against Party B.

I don't see that any of this stuff passes a full appellate scrutiny.

Can you explain why you're ok with a president spending several months orchestrating a complex scheme to illegally install himself as the president, ignoring the results of a national election?

Since you seem to believe our distaste for the man is unwarranted.

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10 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

How is the government party to virtually every private business transaction? Unless you mean having to notify the IRS with documentation and payments? Are you suggesting we abolish the IRS?

Because otherwise, it seems this could have been avoided if someone hadn't repeatedly falsified their tax returns and inflated the values of their properties, fraudulently, for the purpose of increasing their lines of credit and loan capability, etc. In other words, if they hadn't committed fraud. I fail to see what what this has to do with the government "being involved in every business transaction." 

Those with standing to sue relative to a private business transaction.

If there is a alleged false tax filing, etc. -- I have no brief with the parties involved (those with standing to sue each other, the filer, the taxing authority, etc.) resolving their dispute through legal process. 

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7 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Those with standing to sue relative to a private business transaction.

If there is a alleged false tax filing, etc. -- I have no brief with the parties involved (those with standing to sue each other, the filer, the taxing authority, etc.) resolving their dispute through legal process. 

There's about a dozen false tax filings, alleged, and ruled upon by the judge in question yesterady. That's what all of this is about.


What did you think it was about?

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36 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I know that the Surly cabal hates Orange Man Bad.

But think about it.  Is it really a good thing to allow the gubmint to be a party to virtually every private business transaction?

DalTexHornFan asks if its a good thing to allow the government to be a party to every private sexual encounter between adults and children  - ‘cause “private”. 

Quote

I don't see that any of this stuff passes a full appellate scrutiny.

Not only will your check result in the immediate delivery of the Playful Sea Monkeys, we will also send you a certificate that allows you to practice appellate law on several long-sunken Micronesian isles!

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Look, Aggyhealthco sent me the diet pills that I contracted for in a private transaction with Aggyhealthco.   That is between us.  

The fact that the nosy government wants to interfere in our transactions simply because the pills contained a combination of tapeworm eggs/E. Coli does not mean the government needs to be a party to every private transaction.

Especially when I did in fact lose weight.  So no standing. 

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38 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Those with standing to sue relative to a private business transaction.

If there is a alleged false tax filing, etc. -- I have no brief with the parties involved (those with standing to sue each other, the filer, the taxing authority, etc.) resolving their dispute through legal process. 

Wait a minute. Are you saying that the state has no interest in my stating my home’s value at $10 million for the purposes of a loan?

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1 hour ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I know that the Surly cabal hates Orange Man Bad.

But think about it.  Is it really a good thing to allow the gubmint to be a party to virtually every private business transaction?

I seem to recall that there used to be something about who had standing to make a claim in a court of law. 

Party A alleges that Party B breached their agreement with Party A.  Accordingly, Party A seeks to recover damages or other remedies against Party B.

I don't see that any of this stuff passes a full appellate scrutiny.

Here's the relevant provision of NY law, NY Exec. Law S. 63(12):

12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law   3 or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper.  The word “fraud” or “fraudulent” as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions.  The term “persistent fraud” or “illegality” as used herein shall include continuance or carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct.  The term “repeated” as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than one person.  Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law.

In connection with any such application, the attorney general is authorized to take proof and make a determination of the relevant facts and to issue subpoenas in accordance with the civil practice law and rules.  Such authorization shall not abate or terminate by reason of any action or proceeding brought by the attorney general under this section.

 

According to both Engoron and the NY Court of Appeals for the First Department, this grants standing to the AG to sue, as stated, for generally fraudulent conduct.  It's not limited to common-law fraud, as I have previously stated.  It's not terribly unlike Texas' DTPA.

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