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Patrick Bateman

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1 minute ago, YGIFS said:

But if the kids can't buy Pierce without the Gojo money, Pierce is back to Logan's previous offer then...so Logan becomes viable again.  But he wants to run ATN full time as his swan song (even if he won't admit his age).  

I presume Logan needed the Gojo money to buy Pierce as well.  I doubt stockholders are going to let him buy Pierce when this deal falls through, but who knows?  Obviously, Mattson is going to go rogue in one way or another.  

"I love you.  But you're not serious people."  Logan's worldview on his kids in 8 words.

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Kendall WANTS the Mattson deal to blow up.

Y’all forgetting how S3 ended? The kids finally joined together to block the sale to Mattson and their Dad snakes them by buying off their Mom.

Kendall’s thoughts on blowing up the Waystar/GoJo deal after Mattson calls -

1 - Mattson is either weak or he’s having buyer’s remorse
2 - Push for more money to test Mattson
3 - Win/Win - either they get more money or he walks and Waystar/Royco stays intact.
4 - Wait a minute! I never wanted this deal to go through in the first place!
5 - Fuck yeah! I’m going to keep The Rebel Alliance on the neck of this deal until we force Mattson to walk.
5a - That’s going to piss off EVERYONE, but my Dad’s head is going to explode!
5b - I get what I originally wanted - no deal.
6 - Now I have a block vote on the
W-R board.
7 - I have them vote out my Dad (LIKE HE TRIED TO DO FROM SEASON ONE)
8 - I have them vote me in as CEO.


BAM! I GET WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED- to overthrow my father because that’s the only thing that will make him give me what I’ve always wanted; Logan’s respect IE love.

Shiv and Roman aren’t even real people anymore.

Everyone sees the obvious manipulation that Logan pulled on Roman. But he did something to all three of them to get them to fracture.

1 - Emotional manipulation of Roman’s sentimentality.
2 - Giving Tom the lawyer trick. He knew that would make Shiv furious and have her switch her anger into being focused on getting back at Tom and not on working with her brothers.
3 - Let Kendall see a path to what he’s always wanted, and he’ll leave Pierce and his siblings in a ditch. Ain’t no way Logan doesn’t know Mattson is feeling pressure from the dissidents on the board.


I’m always gonna be a Kendall girl but I’m so disappointed he fell right back into his old mindset.

Logan is right about one thing - they aren’t serious people.

Individually.

But together? They could be - they work well together and fill in each other’s weaknesses.

But give ‘em a whiff of what they each REALLY want? And they don’t give a fuck about each other and revert to their selfish ways.

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It’s weird how each kid has strengths and weaknesses that kinda complement the others which is why altogether they are potentially formidable but any on their own are disasters.  
 

As an example, Roman has the most emotional intelligence by far and reads situations much better than the other two.  But he’s weak and afraid of conflict so he can be browbeaten by whoever is trying to win him over at any point in time. Even when he may be right. 

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My initial assumption to Kendall's reaction to the Mattson call wasn't that he sensed weakness, rather that Mattson had become another Logan figure, dismissing Kendall, telling him not to make waves or else, etc.  Kendall said, fuck this.

Roman is actually showing more business acumen than either of his siblings.  He understood the potential of what Mattson had built, handled a delicate one-to-one meeting with Mattson in Season 3 well, was the only sibling who kept his head during the Pierce negotiations.  He still bows to his older siblings, but I can see why Logan would sincerely want him on his team.

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3 hours ago, yoladu said:

the whole thing seems senselessly risky. The kids can't buy Pierce without the GoJo deal occurring. I couldn't quite understand how much more they thought they could squeeze from Matsson. Did they say $100 million?... seems like pennies when they were throwing around billions when haggling with Nan.

$100MM to each kid. Not sure what their ownership stake is, but some articles I've read have pegged it at 2.5%. They said in episode one they would each be getting about $2 Billion each. And that would mean the sales price would be around $80 Billion. 

So that would mean the sales price would have to go up by 5% or so (~$4 Billion more) for them to each net another $100MM. 

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Curious to see the payoff for Chekhov's Mistress/Assistant/Punchline of an anchor. Roy plays his kids like a fiddle but I don't think he caught that they definitely got to her by immediately recognizing that she was in the middle of getting betrayed/yanked off the air by Logan.

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6 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Curious to see the payoff for Chekhov's Mistress/Assistant/Punchline of an anchor. Roy plays his kids like a fiddle but I don't think he caught that they definitely got to her by immediately recognizing that she was in the middle of getting betrayed/yanked off the air by Logan.

Yeah, when they were walking in the street leaving karaoke bar she was fuming while Logan was rambling about homeless people and whatever.  
 

But fuck her. Her bangs are ridiculous. 
 

Or for surly….. bangs wnb 

Edited by A-Tex Devil
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2 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Kendall WANTS the Mattson deal to blow up.

Y’all forgetting how S3 ended? The kids finally joined together to block the sale to Mattson and their Dad snakes them by buying off their Mom.

Kendall’s thoughts on blowing up the Waystar/GoJo deal after Mattson calls -

1 - Mattson is either weak or he’s having buyer’s remorse
2 - Push for more money to test Mattson
3 - Win/Win - either they get more money or he walks and Waystar/Royco stays intact.
4 - Wait a minute! I never wanted this deal to go through in the first place!
5 - Fuck yeah! I’m going to keep The Rebel Alliance on the neck of this deal until we force Mattson to walk.
5a - That’s going to piss off EVERYONE, but my Dad’s head is going to explode!
5b - I get what I originally wanted - no deal.
6 - Now I have a block vote on the
W-R board.
7 - I have them vote out my Dad (LIKE HE TRIED TO DO FROM SEASON ONE)
8 - I have them vote me in as CEO.
 

This is definitely a possibility, but I believe they would also need Sandy/Stewey votes to oust Logan and make Kendall CEO wouldn't they?  I don't recall the exact number of board seats, but I think it's really these seven that matter:

  1. Kendall
  2. Roman
  3. Shiv
  4. Sandy
  5. Sandy
  6. Stewey
  7. Logan

The kids only account for 3 of the 7 key Board votes... and I believe there are also supposed to be at least 2-3 other external directors so just the 3 kids can't get something through... they will need the 3 votes from Sandy/Stewey... now if they have 6 votes they should be good assuming there are no more than 10 total directors.

It's definitely a high-risk move to assume that Sandy/Stewey will go along with it, but it's definitely something Kendall is reckless enough to try, lol.

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That was one of the better episodes of the series, so many classic lines/moments.  Best-ever Connor episode.   Him wanting to go to a bar with “guys who work with their hands” and “have blood in their hair.” Then wanting a working man's beer like “Belgian weissbier, but not a Hoegaarden.”  LOL

Edited by Ted Lange
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4 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Curious to see the payoff for Chekhov's Mistress/Assistant/Punchline of an anchor. Roy plays his kids like a fiddle but I don't think he caught that they definitely got to her by immediately recognizing that she was in the middle of getting betrayed/yanked off the air by Logan.

And did he not catch that Hugo and Geri were laughing at her video clip when Hugo demurred on using his computer to show the slide deck and then when he did, he quickly closed it out during their briefing? Or Logan didn't care?

Edited by HamsterHookah
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13 hours ago, yoladu said:

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern in Hamlet? Good call.

I never thought of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern as comic relief.  They're recruited as spies and then given the mission of delivering a letter to the King of England instructing him to have Hamlet whacked.

I do think Pistol, Bardolph and Nim, along with Falstaff are pretty apt, from Henry IV part 2 and Henry V.

Edited by Augustus
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I was puzzled, as well, by Kendall's reaction to Mattson's video call, but I guess what you guys are saying makes sense, if he's sensing weakness there and deciding to exploit it.

Poor Roman, the only one of the bunch with anything close to a soul and daddy plays it like a fiddle.

5 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

And did he not catch that Hugo and Geri were laughing at her video clip when Hugo demurred on using his computer to show the slide deck and then when he did, he quickly closed it out during their briefing? Or Logan didn't care?

No way Logan missed that

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No way Logan missed that


Correct - Logan is all about the power play, and by ignoring the video, he keeps them stewing on whether he actually saw it… gives them just enough time to ease their fears, then pounces with the truth.

He’s a manipulative fuck to the core.
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31 minutes ago, Party_Taco said:

 


Correct - Logan is all about the power play, and by ignoring the video, he keeps them stewing on whether he actually saw it… gives them just enough time to ease their fears, then pounces with the truth.

He’s a manipulative fuck to the core.

 

I also think he knows they are right and the fuse is about to run out on Kerry and a hard conversation is coming. That scene after the karaoke bar you could see steak coming out of her ears. 
 

And they don’t say it out loud but the kids getting that video means it has been passed around for giggles.  So in a way, Greg is not lying.  It has been focus grouped.  

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11 hours ago, Augustus said:

I never thought of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern as comic relief.  They're recruited as spies and then given the mission of delivering a letter to the King of England instructing him to have Hamlet whacked.

I do think Pistol, Bardolph and Nim, along with Falstaff are pretty apt, from Henry IV part 2 and Henry V.

You are right.

No offense to the OP but it's a tell how far the illiterate tree we are falling when we are only passingly aware of things and haven't read or consumed them for ourselves.

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead is the absurdist comedic play from the 60's the guy was thinking of, which found a revival in the 90's (and if you have kids and have seen Lion King 1 1/2, it's hilarious and similar).

I know you to be a bardophile from the Macbeth movie thread, so I thought I'd share.

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On 4/3/2023 at 9:42 AM, yoladu said:

i assume Conner.

 “The good thing about having a family that doesn’t love you is that you learn to live without it. You’re all chasing after dad, saying, ‘Oh, love me. Please love me. I need love, I need attention.’ You’re needy love sponges, and I’m a plant that grows on rocks and lives off insects that die inside of me.”

Of all the sorry and pathetic and pitiful characters that make up the Roy menagerie, Con is definitely the saddest and the one that elicits sympathy. Con is the kind of guy, with the kind of life and emotional and psychological circumstances who you read about that ends up eating a pistol.

Another thing that struck me, for really the first time over four seasons, is how rare and brilliant a businessman Logan Roy is. I know it's supposed to be assumed, because in our culture we are trained to believe being a billionaire means you are brilliant, but I think most of us watching this show have lived long enough and seen enough to know that's not necessarily the case and true. 

But on the back of his, "you aren't real figures.." speech and his rousing "You are Pirates!" speech to his ATN folks, along with all the deal and people machinations, it seems that Logan is the rare businessperson who could have made Waystar what is ended up becoming and valued which circles back to the premise and early season questions explored which we see a lot in real life: when a special person creates something and his kids are not special, businesses fail.

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34 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Of all the sorry and pathetic and pitiful characters that make up the Roy menagerie, Con is definitely the saddest and the one that elicits sympathy. Con is the kind of guy, with the kind of life and emotional and psychological circumstances who you read about that ends up eating a pistol.

Another thing that struck me, for really the first time over four seasons, is how rare and brilliant a businessman Logan Roy is. I know it's supposed to be assumed, because in our culture we are trained to believe being a billionaire means you are brilliant, but I think most of us watching this show have lived long enough and seen enough to know that's not necessarily the case and true. 

But on the back of his, "you aren't real figures.." speech and his rousing "You are Pirates!" speech to his ATN folks, along with all the deal and people machinations, it seems that Logan is the rare businessperson who could have made Waystar what is ended up becoming and valued which circles back to the premise and early season questions explored which we see a lot in real life: when a special person creates something and his kids are not special, businesses fail.

 

Thus the cliche of wealth being created and lost within 3 generations (although statistics show 70% of the time it's lost within 2).

Businesses aren't the only example of this.  It's been true throughout history with great leaders/monarchs.  I'm working my way through The People Profiles series on English monarchs (in addition to Dan Jones' books The Plantagenets and Wars of the Roses) and it's fascinating how often a weak king follows a strong one, who's then followed by a strong one, etc.

Great example:  Edward I (Longshanks of Braveheart fame) was the son a weak Henry III but from an early age showed himself a great warrior and proved to be a strong kind. His son Edward II was a disaster and was deposed by his wife and her mistress.  His son, Edward III, seized power from his mother the queen and her lover when he was 17, and proved to be one of the greatest of all the English/British monarchs.  His eldest son and heir predeceased him, so he was followed by his grandson Richard II, who was so awful he was deposed by Henry IV, who then spent his reign putting down rebellions.  Then we had a rare situation of 2 strong kings in a row, as Henry V is world famous, but his son Henry VI.......  hello Wars of the Roses. 

Sorry for the derail, I just find that point really interesting.  I think the same holds true for entire generations.  

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48 minutes ago, Augustus said:

 

Thus the cliche of wealth being created and lost within 3 generations (although statistics show 70% of the time it's lost within 2).

Businesses aren't the only example of this.  It's been true throughout history with great leaders/monarchs.  I'm working my way through The People Profiles series on English monarchs (in addition to Dan Jones' books The Plantagenets and Wars of the Roses) and it's fascinating how often a weak king follows a strong one, who's then followed by a strong one, etc.

Great example:  Edward I (Longshanks of Braveheart fame) was the son a weak Henry III but from an early age showed himself a great warrior and proved to be a strong kind. His son Edward II was a disaster and was deposed by his wife and her mistress.  His son, Edward III, seized power from his mother the queen and her lover when he was 17, and proved to be one of the greatest of all the English/British monarchs.  His eldest son and heir predeceased him, so he was followed by his grandson Richard II, who was so awful he was deposed by Henry IV, who then spent his reign putting down rebellions.  Then we had a rare situation of 2 strong kings in a row, as Henry V is world famous, but his son Henry VI.......  hello Wars of the Roses. 

Sorry for the derail, I just find that point really interesting.  I think the same holds true for entire generations.  

I looked it up the saying is “from shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves” 

Proverbial saying, early 20th century; meaning that wealth gained in one generation will be lost by the third. The saying is often attributed to the Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist Andrew Carnegie(1835–1919) but is not found in his writings.

https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100502580;jsessionid=67A52A4F90DA693CD9F8CAFC8FF683B1

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On 4/3/2023 at 12:04 PM, Bama Chick said:

But together? They could be - they work well together and fill in each other’s weaknesses.

I think they are even worse together.  The scenes with all of them sound like kids sitting around a middle school lunch table.  Every line from every one of them ends as a question.  "They wouldn't do that, would they?"  "I really think this thing will work, right?"  Collectively they can't hardly make a decision.

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2 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

I think they are even worse together.  The scenes with all of them sound like kids sitting around a middle school lunch table.  Every line from every one of them ends as a question.  "They wouldn't do that, would they?"  "I really think this thing will work, right?"  Collectively they can't hardly make a decision.

Man I agree.

Not only that but they are never, ever, ever a unified front. They are like siblings in name only in that they can't trust one another and are never fully transparent or honest and in the boat with one another.

They aren't serious people, they are rich children who if not for being born rich, would be middling at best.

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He actually plays it incredibly brilliant.  He has to walk the delicate line of getting closer to the family with he shares blood but little else, appeasing Logan, not embarrassing his grandfather whom is himself embarrassed of Logan, rising up the corporate ladder, carrying water for Tom, and trying to get laid.  He does it rather elegantly in many ways.  He's like a less retarded Eric Trump.  

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On 4/3/2023 at 10:45 AM, hornian said:

$100MM to each kid. Not sure what their ownership stake is, but some articles I've read have pegged it at 2.5%. They said in episode one they would each be getting about $2 Billion each. And that would mean the sales price would be around $80 Billion. 

So that would mean the sales price would have to go up by 5% or so (~$4 Billion more) for them to each net another $100MM. 

i want to say they mentioned at one point that it was 5% per kid.  i could be making that up, but that's the type of info that typically sticks to my brain.

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Hole. E. Shit. 
 

Did anyone else notice the pronounced lack of music during the main part of the episode?  From when the phone call started until the plane landed I don’t think there was any music at all. Just let the actors do their thing. 

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Hole. E. Shit. 
 
Did anyone else notice the pronounced lack of music during the main part of the episode?  From when the phone call started until the plane landed I don’t think there was any music at all. Just let the actors do their thing. 

There’s a very low rumble and a quiet single string instrument that’s very sparse during the scene. It definitely adds to the tension.
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15 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

I kept waiting for the entire thing to be a Logan trick on his kids.  

me too.. and i was like, please, please, please dont make this a fake/trick.

 

that would have been lazy, very manipulative, and disappointing.

Edited by yoladu
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7 hours ago, LonghornSean said:

Kinda had to know this was coming at some point this season, but that was absolutely gripping television. 

Yeah, it's rare for such a scrutinized show to pull off a surprise like that. And throughout the ep and into next week, we still have no idea what anyone is going to do.

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16 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I thought that was filmed in a way that the viewers were kind of in the same boat (so to speak) as the kids. Like, "Wait, what's going on? Is he really dead?" for like 15 minutes. 

Yeah they took forever to show his face lying on the floor of the plane. We kept getting shots of a torso but there was plenty of time for us to wonder if this was a Logan manipulation.  Killing him off in episode 3 is pretty wild.  And I am absolutely amazed they kept that secret.

Culkin should get an emmy for that performance.

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15 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I thought that was filmed in a way that the viewers were kind of in the same boat (so to speak) as the kids. Like, "Wait, what's going on? Is he really dead?" for like 15 minutes. 

The writers capitalized on the fact that viewers are conditioned to believe that if a death is ambiguous, then the victim usually survives.  It's why almost all of us expected Logan to pull through.  When in reality, death is almost always how the show portrayed it.  

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21 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I thought that was filmed in a way that the viewers were kind of in the same boat (so to speak) as the kids. Like, "Wait, what's going on? Is he really dead?" for like 15 minutes. 

This was my exact take as well. GREAT acting and excellent shooting.

Kendall trying to grasp at what little control there is in a control-less situation by trying to direct the pilot, Dr's, etc.. Very accurate.

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Wow.

Yeah. Absolutely gripping. Every decision the show runners made about when he was gonna go and how it was going to happen/be shown was an absolute master class in making the audience feel just as out-of-the-blue gut-punched as the siblings.

  • Make it happen in episode 3 (not your typical "something big happens" episode)
  • Not showing him "go down."
  • The bad phone connection.
  • Not actually showing him until the very end.
  • The fact that it was on a plane over the ocean where you just have to wait for them to get back.

Plus, I'll have to go back and look, but I think the initial shot of the kids finding out was one continuous shot (no cuts).

Just a master class. Incredible.

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