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Super Bowl LVII - Las Vegas


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31 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

 

I don't understand why "Mahomes was most expensive cap hit in NFL at $37M" would matter. His extension kicks in next year and he will be making close to 60 million, which has to be top 3 in the league for cap hits. Chris Jones was a huge factor in the win tonight and he's a free agent, they will need to use most if not all of their cap space to keep him. If they lose Jones, then this defense will drop off considerably, and it isn't going to get considerably better, unless they have some stud young players develop. 

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13 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

I don't understand why "Mahomes was most expensive cap hit in NFL at $37M" would matter. His extension kicks in next year and he will be making close to 60 million, which has to be top 3 in the league for cap hits. Chris Jones was a huge factor in the win tonight and he's a free agent, they will need to use most if not all of their cap space to keep him. If they lose Jones, then this defense will drop off considerably, and it isn't going to get considerably better, unless they have some stud young players develop. 

They have Mahomes. That automatically makes them a favorite to win every single year until he retires. A all-time great QB can cover a multitude of issues a team can encounter.

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4 hours ago, RockyMountainHighHorn said:

Sorry Kyle but Omenihu will get it covered anyways. I grew up with Trent green and then Charles was nice and DJ but then nothing crazy happened except this guy named Mahomes that I thought would be a slanging flop his first year and dang was I wrong. I saw him at two different games his second year and I said I’d never doubt him again…he’s been pretty solid on his end of the bet

I saw this game his second year and was pulling for the Broncos. A friend wasn’t feeling well and so I took his 7 1/2 year-old son to the game, so I was hoping for a home win for the kid. 
 

IMG_1593.thumb.jpeg.3385faf436319cb74cbfd33128524c4e.jpeg

Didn’t happen. 

Instead, young Patricio Mahomes led his team to victory. ✌️ 

It happens…

…a lot.

Edited by Napoleon
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16 minutes ago, slorch said:

Reid had so many SB wins before Mahomes...

 

System guy...

He appears in 4 NFCCG’s and 1 Super Bowl as a coach before Mahomes. He’s probably a better coach than Belichick in the modern era because he has won games without Mahomes. Reid developed Mahomes. Reid is the primary play caller for chiefs. If you don’t think there will be drop off then that’s stupid. 

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14 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

He appears in 4 NFCCG’s and 1 Super Bowl as a coach before Mahomes. He’s probably a better coach than Belichick in the modern era because he has won games without Mahomes. Reid developed Mahomes. Reid is the primary play caller for chiefs. If you don’t think there will be drop off then that’s stupid. 

Not denying Reid's part in the relationship.  Mahomes changed Reid's trajectory, even if he never played DB in Austin.

Edited by slorch
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7 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

but for real it is the Brady-Belichick Pats satanic magic all over again. Just waiting for the light cheating scandal to break or for the NFL to actually get caught red handed with their thumb on the scale for more T-Swift air time…

IMO I think we can make the argument that Reid > Belichick as 🐐 of this era. Belichick without Brady is sub .500 coach by like 15-20 games. 
 

Reid without Mahomes has 4 NFCCG and a Super Bowl appearance. If I’m not mistaken he’s the only coach in NFL history to win 100 games with two teams, right?
 

 

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7 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

IMO I think we can make the argument that Reid > Belichick as 🐐 of this era. Belichick without Brady is sub .500 coach by like 15-20 games. 
 

Reid without Mahomes has 4 NFCCG and a Super Bowl appearance. If I’m not mistaken he’s the only coach in NFL history to win 100 games with two teams, right?
 

 

He is a sneaky all time great. Was getting to the playoffs consistently with Alex Smith, him getting an all timer like Mahomes isnt fair.

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1 hour ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

but for real it is the Brady-Belichick Pats satanic magic all over again. Just waiting for the light cheating scandal to break or for the NFL to actually get caught red handed with their thumb on the scale for more T-Swift air time…

Shanahan didn’t mess up the coin toss. For playoff OT, you want the ball first. It’s nice to know what you have to do to win.  But these are the potential out comes:

- Score a TD, other team scores a TD (you get ball back and any score wins)

- Score a FG, other team scores a FG (you get ball back and any score wins)

- No score and opponent doesn’t score (you get the ball back and any score wins)

- Score a TD/FG and other team doesn’t score (you win)

- Score a FG, other team scores TD (you lose)

- No score and other team scores (you lose) 

The chance to get the ball back and end the game with any score is more valuable than going second and knowing what you need to do to win or keep playing. 
 

(Edit: I guess you or the other team could go for two. More likely in a track meet when the other team is confident it can get the two yards. Still, you want the sudden death advantage). 

Edited by 956 Worldwide
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1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

IMO I think we can make the argument that Reid > Belichick as 🐐 of this era. Belichick without Brady is sub .500 coach by like 15-20 games. 
 

Reid without Mahomes has 4 NFCCG and a Super Bowl appearance. If I’m not mistaken he’s the only coach in NFL history to win 100 games with two teams, right?
 

 

Per the Wikipedia machine this is correct, and he is also the only coach in NFL history to take 2 different teams to 4 straight conference championship games. Andy is the man, it’s the mix of KC/Mahomes Tech Tard Chiefs fans that make this so insufferable. 

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8 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Shanahan didn’t mess up the coin toss. For playoff OT, you want the ball first. It’s nice to know what you have to do to win.  But these are the potential out comes:

- Score a TD, other team scores a TD (you get ball back and any score wins)

- Score a FG, other team scores a FG (you get ball back and any score wins)

- No score and opponent doesn’t score (you get the ball back and any score wins)

- Score a TD/FG and other team doesn’t score (you win)

- Score a FG, other team scores TD (you lose)

- No score and other team scores (you lose) 

The chance to get the ball back and end the game with any score is more valuable than going second and knowing what you need to do to win or keep playing. 
 

(Edit: I guess you or the other team could go for two. More likely in a track meet when the other team is confident it can get the two yards. Still, you want the sudden death advantage). 

The winner of the OT coin toss in college wins the game about 50% of the time, and I imagine it’ll be the same for the new NFL OT playoff rules (sample size has to be way too small to look at at this point still). When each team is guaranteed a possession it doesn’t matter who gets the ball first.

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8 minutes ago, Helobious said:

When each team is guaranteed a possession it doesn’t matter who gets the ball first.

It matters if the game is still tied after each team has had a possession. The team that has the 3rd possession wins if it scores. That’s a significant difference from college OT where they alternate who is on offense first and the team going second always gets the ball again. 

Edited by TonyTexas
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7 minutes ago, Helobious said:

The winner of the OT coin toss in college wins the game about 50% of the time, and I imagine it’ll be the same for the new NFL OT playoff rules (sample size has to be way too small to look at at this point still). When each team is guaranteed a possession it doesn’t matter who gets the ball first.

Getting the ball first in sudden death is absolutely an advantage. Winning the toss gives you that if the game goes past each team’s guaranteed possession. 

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18 minutes ago, Helobious said:

The winner of the OT coin toss in college wins the game about 50% of the time, and I imagine it’ll be the same for the new NFL OT playoff rules (sample size has to be way too small to look at at this point still). When each team is guaranteed a possession it doesn’t matter who gets the ball first.

If it doesn’t matter who gets ball first why in college and high school do they always go defense first if you win toss? 

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19 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 

This is fantastic.  I'd like to have been in that pitch meeting when they tossed out the other ideas a la Don Draper.  

"Okay, so we were thinking we'd start with a close-up of Heinz Guderian.  The father of mechanized German vehicles.  No good?  Okay, so we zoom in on Alfried Krupp, the creator of the German transportation industry.  No good?  Okay, we start with the history of the Volkswagen and how it had no involvement whatsoever in the Wehrmacht.  We make it like super obvious, but clever.  It's not a wheel, that's boring.  The feature is literally called 'A Bug' and takes us to a place we long to be...a pure society of.  Shit, hang on...I'm shitfaced drunk."  

Edited by YGIFS
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And as I said last night, Mahomes is lucky that Reid drafted him. Even chiefs players say that Mahomes was completely different year 2 vs year 1.  

You can likely make this argument for virtually anyone in the game of football. Environment, culture and scheme have everything to do with an individuals success and often failures.
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2 minutes ago, Had Enough said:


You can likely make this argument for virtually anyone in the game of football. Environment, culture and scheme have everything to do with an individuals success and often failures.

Exactly. Anyone think Brady is winning any super bowls if he gets drafted by the Jets?

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7 minutes ago, Horn80 said:

After watching Kelce antics during and post game, I now can’t stand that fucker.  

Meh. The shit that he's had to deal with because of a commercial and who he's dating--and millions of people, including "news" networks, loudly wanting him to fail--I'm going to give him a pass for a night of telling people to pound sand.

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Meh. The shit that he's had to deal with because of a commercial and who he's dating--and millions of people, including "news" networks, loudly wanting him to fail--I'm going to give him a pass for a night of telling people to pound sand.

What about damn near knocking over his old ass coach on the sideline?
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48 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Shanahan didn’t mess up the coin toss. For playoff OT, you want the ball first. It’s nice to know what you have to do to win.  But these are the potential out comes:

- Score a TD, other team scores a TD (you get ball back and any score wins)

- Score a FG, other team scores a FG (you get ball back and any score wins)

- No score and opponent doesn’t score (you get the ball back and any score wins)

- Score a TD/FG and other team doesn’t score (you win)

- Score a FG, other team scores TD (you lose)

- No score and other team scores (you lose) 

The chance to get the ball back and end the game with any score is more valuable than going second and knowing what you need to do to win or keep playing. 
 

(Edit: I guess you or the other team could go for two. More likely in a track meet when the other team is confident it can get the two yards. Still, you want the sudden death advantage). 

I thought the NFL OT rules say that if the team first possessing the ball in OT scores a TD, it's game over, man.  Game over.

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5 minutes ago, Native Horn said:

I thought the NFL OT rules say that if the team first possessing the ball in OT scores a TD, it's game over, man.  Game over.

Regular season OT and postseason rules are different. In the playoffs, each team is guaranteed a possession. 

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Yeah, when they put that graphic up to start OT with all the rules (some of which are new), I felt like that blonde woman doing calculus meme that we see so often on here.  The same one I thought of when calculating Volkswagen's crimes against humanity after their weird ad minutes before. 

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2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

And as I said last night, Mahomes is lucky that Reid drafted him. Even chiefs players say that Mahomes was completely different year 2 vs year 1.  

You're right.  Mahomes lucked out. First guy to ever progress dramatically from rookie year.  You serious, Clark?

What he has done has never been done at the pace at which he has done it.  Just luck.  Change out best WR in football?  who cares?  Change out OC?  who cares?  Andy Reid won all those titles before Mahomes...  Patrick just gets lucky.  

 

LOLz.

 

Edited by slorch
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Exactly. Anyone think Brady is winning any super bowls if he gets drafted by the Jets?

I don’t. Mahomes is great, but their defense won this postseason. Just like the Bucs won theirs. Manning’s Broncos D won theirs.

If you’re into stats, check out Burrows versus the Chiefs to get them into the Super Bowl. Then check out Purdys versus the Packers and last night. Even the run game stats, sacks. Then consider the narratives of the QBs after those games.
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The winner of the OT coin toss in college wins the game about 50% of the time, and I imagine it’ll be the same for the new NFL OT playoff rules (sample size has to be way too small to look at at this point still). When each team is guaranteed a possession it doesn’t matter who gets the ball first.

You can argue the analytics either way. The only advantage to deferral is you know your situation and what to do. In this case though Shanahan’s defense was gassed from the last 7 minutes of the game. Had Reid won the toss putting the Niner defense back on the would have been the right call
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12 minutes ago, slorch said:

You're right.  Mahomes lucked out. First guy to ever progress dramatically from rookie year.  You serious, Clark?

What he has done has never been done at the pace at which he has done it.  Just luck.  Change out best WR in football?  who cares?  Change out OC?  who cares?  Andy Reid won all those titles before Mahomes...  Patrick just gets lucky.  

 

LOLz.

 

He didn’t even play his rookie year. That’s part of the luck he had. He sure as fuck wasn’t a great QB coming out of Tech. He had intangibles but he was basically every tech QB ever at that point. Reid 100% developed him when he was back to Alex smith as a rookie. 

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A little off topic - but related to the VW history topic.
When I was an intern at IBM in the late-80s, IBM forged a business relationship w/ Siemens.  Part of a Siemens exec's presentation included a history of Siemens.  1933-1945 were left out of the history, unsurprisingly.  At Q/A time, one of the IBMers asked, "You seemed to have skipped the slides that showed 1933-1945.  Can you please tell us what Siemens did between 1933-1945."  You could hear a pin drop and the exec looked aghast.  The IBMer's 3rd or 4th line manager had a panicked look on his face.  When the Siemens exec turned away to address the next question, the coworker spoke up a little louder, "Excuse me, you did not answer my question.  Would you like me to repeat it?"  At that point, the boss came over and asked him to pipe down.  Undeterred, he insisted...

Many of the folks in the audience had friends or family who were directly impacted by the WW2 European theater and they did not care for the whitewashing...

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You're right.  Mahomes lucked out. First guy to ever progress dramatically from rookie year.  You serious, Clark?
What he has done has never been done at the pace at which he has done it.  Just luck.  Change out best WR in football?  who cares?  Change out OC?  who cares?  Andy Reid won all those titles before Mahomes...  Patrick just gets lucky.  
 
LOLz.
 

What you are underestimating is the ability of many a coach to screw things up. So for that Mahomes is lucky. Reid’s damn lucky to have him.

Super Bowl wins and stats are overvalued when it comes to greatness. When the Bucs beat the Chiefs, I thought Mahomes made incredible plays, but his receivers dropped two TDs - hit them in the head. When the Chiefs lost to the Bengals, the OT interception hit Tyreek in the damn head. Yesterday, Mahomes was effective largely the last two drives. That only happens because the D keeps the 49ers in check. So many things matter when winning and losing.

Mahomes is the best QB there’s been. If he blows out both knees in game 1 next year, that is how he should be remembered.
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8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

He didn’t even play his rookie year. That’s part of the luck he had. He sure as fuck wasn’t a great QB coming out of Tech. He had intangibles but he was basically every tech QB ever at that point. Reid 100% developed him when he was back to Alex smith as a rookie. 

He was an early-entry top ten draft pick and the Chiefs traded up to get him. They liked him more than DeShaun Watson.  He balled out at the combine and anyone who watched him play in college knew his game was not like other Tech QBs.  
 

I agree with the truism that it’s good to be drafted onto really good teams with good coaches and have a chance to learn the game.  

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49 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If it doesn’t matter who gets ball first why in college and high school do they always go defense first if you win toss? 

No one ever paid attention to the analytics of it, but now some coaches are starting to see. Last year I remember 2 games where the winner took the ball first, I’d never seen that before. 
 

https://thedailycougar.com/2022/09/05/dana-holgorsen-analytics-take-ball-first-overtime/

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