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The Kids (Aren't) Alright - World Happiness Report


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I understand what he’s saying, even knowing there’s no such thing as an “American” name (names like Smith, Jones, Miller, etc didn’t even originate in America) I have a very generic hispanic name,  but it was pretty standard in the part of the country I grew up in so I never really thought twice about it till I was an adult and traveled other places in the US. I know F250 doesn’t live in the same kind of area. 
 
Ironically I think the most American names would be something like De’Shonthony or Quantavion. You won’t find names like those anywhere else in the world. 

The distinction is “generic white people names” vs….not that kind of name.
“De la Torre Gutierrez” or “Hoang” ain’t “REAL American.” Texas DPS will even “Americanize” your Spanish name - changed my middle name from something like “Jorge” to “George.” Unilaterally.
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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Theoretically, yes, but the vast majority of private-sector employees don't work in some competitive thunderdome.  A whole hell of a lot of em just get by.

And then get RIF'd in mass at the whim of the company.  

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32 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

lofl.

i have a ton to say on this stupidity but I'll have to wait until after work. 

but this sounds a lot like "some people are saying that these people falling down and shaking are actually sick! everyone knows it's demons and if they pray harder and ignore their disease it'll go away."

She seems to use a lot of anecdotes and stereotypes of dubious validity to prove her points, or actually generate outrage.  Like her generalization about how US troops are treated for PTSD.

Some of her points are probably valid to a degree, though.  There is a lot of overindulgent parenting going on, but I don't think it is in any way exclusively a librul phenomenon or centered around polarizing ideas like gender identity or whether kids are getting good therapy.

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11 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

This thread is a microcosm of America. Just a bunch of people arguing with each other and flinging shit at each other over the dumbest of things.

Our politicians, media, and social media have increasingly polarized the country. There is very little room for respectful discourse anymore. Everyone thinks they are right and the other side is wrong on every single topic (education, religion, climate, immigration, womens’ rights, LGBTQ rights, healthcare, guns, electric vehicles, crypto, Russia, Gaza), and eventually people find justifications for being mean to each other or outright hating each other. They actually trained people to hate each other merely on the basis of wearing a mask or not wearing a mask during a pandemic. Unbelievable.

So this all gets amplified by social media and of course this trickles down to kids because they see it in their parents’ behaviors, so naturally everyone is less happy.

I personally feel happy with my life but I sense despair in the world around me and it’s hard to not think this country is doomed. We are riding on past successes and that will eventually dry up if we don’t get our affairs in order, find a way to treat each other better, and work together for the common good.

Q: Wow, young people are really down and pessimistic, what’s going on?

A: Fucking government workers. 
 

LOL. Completely unserious. 

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Q: Wow, young people are really down and pessimistic, what’s going on?
A: Fucking government workers. 
 
LOL. Completely unserious. 

Well, you missed the main answer. “Because they’re all snowflake pussies, everything is actually great…thanks to us [older people]. BOOTSTRAPS!”
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32 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Theoretically, yes, but the vast majority of private-sector employees don't work in some competitive thunderdome.  A whole hell of a lot of em just get by.

This is true not just for the IC's but the management and executives too. Just because someone is paid a shit ton doesn't mean that they've done anything to earn it. Hell look at pretty much any silicon valley unicorn startup founder, like Adam Neumann for example. Dude created a massive ponzi scheme with WeWork and sold it off to SoftBank which nearly tanked them. Their entire product was the stock symbol and FOMO. 

Now Neumann is getting into the rent to own apartment business and has already raised $300,000,000 after causing over $15,000,000,000 in losses. There's objectively no consequences for failure at the tippy top of the pyramid, as long as you are rich and charismatic enough 

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6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Q: Wow, young people are really down and pessimistic, what’s going on?

A: Fucking government workers. 
 

LOL. Completely unserious. 

Yeah, the discussion has been successfully redirected towards the usual political suspects.

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12 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

This thread is a microcosm of America. Just a bunch of people arguing with each other and flinging shit at each other over the dumbest of things.

Our politicians, media, and social media have increasingly polarized the country. There is very little room for respectful discourse anymore. Everyone thinks they are right and the other side is wrong on every single topic (education, religion, climate, immigration, womens’ rights, LGBTQ rights, healthcare, guns, electric vehicles, crypto, Russia, Gaza), and eventually people find justifications for being mean to each other or outright hating each other. They actually trained people to hate each other merely on the basis of wearing a mask or not wearing a mask during a pandemic. Unbelievable.

So this all gets amplified by social media and of course this trickles down to kids because they see it in their parents’ behaviors, so naturally everyone is less happy.

I personally feel happy with my life but I sense despair in the world around me and it’s hard to not think this country is doomed. We are riding on past successes and that will eventually dry up if we don’t get our affairs in order, find a way to treat each other better, and work together for the common good.

This.

All of it.

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13 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Yeah, the discussion has been successfully redirected towards the usual political suspects.

And it's been successfully redirected by the usual political suspects as well.

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1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

in my current private company (finance) we have 5% reviews every year-  the bottom 5% are fired.  it works the same way at microsoft, google, apple, etc.

200.gif

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52 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Q: Wow, young people are really down and pessimistic, what’s going on?

A: Fucking government workers. 
 

LOL. Completely unserious. 

That's the current working theory.

Remember it started with:

Q: Wow, young people are really down and pessimistic, what’s going on?

A: We're being too nice to them

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I think there’s an intersection of the social media thing and the mental health thing as far as grabbing labels, getting mired in self diagnosis, whatever stuff like that. The attention feedback loop, maybe some reverse star bellied sneetch stuff. For lack of a better term, there started to be some romance and fashion to being tragically broken in a lot of 2000s youth culture. But it’s also good that people who *do* genuinely have mental health struggles are less stigmatized when they speak about it or get help. I’m also skeptical of studies pointing to fewer instances back in the good old days -how are they understanding the majority of cases that people just didn’t talk about?

 

 There’s some incentivization stuff with the kids as well - if your kid is designated as having special needs, the classroom gets an additional helper? I know that that is a thing I’ve heard about in a few cases where parents were being encouraged to get a diagnosis.

 

lots of talk about how people work in public vs private sectors when really it seems like the important thing about the public sector is its ability to do things for the public benefit. Privatized roads and eliminating public schools would/will be a disaster. Prisons, the military, oversight, etc. 

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Posted (edited)

Anyway, the public/private sector discussion is a red herring, it really doesn't have anything to do with the subject at hand.

The FACTS are, that we know that an increasing percentage of the population is unhappy enough to answer as such in surveys.

And we know that the negative responses disproportionately skew to those under 30.

Beyond that, this thread has really been nothing more than speculation as to why.  There's some plausible speculation, and some stupid-as-shit speculation, and some insensitive "don't care got mine" responses as well.

What I'd be most interested in finding, is WHY those who responded as unhappy, did so. I'd like to find it out directly from the original set of respondents.  And I'd also be interested to view similar past surveys over time, of the same age ranges, to see what the trends look like for those age ranges, over, say, the past 60-80 years.

As a solid GenXer, I can say that plenty of my peers had some fairly negative views of their surroundings, from ages 18-30.  In some ways it was expected or even fashionable to behave so-- youthful rebellion, young-person's angst, and all that.  But as I, and my peers, have become older, and gained perspective,, and learned how to live a contented life, much of that angst and fear and anger, have faded and been replaced by happier feelings.  This is only anecdotal of course, but that's my own experience.

That's why I'd be interested to see the trends over time, from generation to generation, of such a survey.

Edited by utee94
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1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but what exactly is a non American name? I assume you mean something ethnic sounding, verson something like Smith or Jones?

We're supposed to be a melting pot. It makes me sad that you have to think of you and your sons own names in that light.

A Spanish surname. It's just one of those things that is always in the back of your head.

We are melanin-challenged in my family. So I've heard different variations of "You look different than I expected" then they pronounce my last name and make one of those "huh" faces. My sisters never got these questions but people often assumed their last name was their married names.

When you experience this all your life you get an understanding that your last name on paper will generate assumptions.

People often expect this guy to show up when they see my name.

Spoiler

stinkin_badges_bandito_1770.jpg

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Foosters said:

That's the current working theory.

Remember it started with:

Q: Wow, young people are really down and pessimistic, what’s going on?

A: We're being too nice to them

That is not the premise I was discussing.  It is not nice to give kids therapy when they do not need it.  It is not nice to practice what is called "gentle parenting" with no structure or rules.  It is not nice to be a bulldozer or helicopter parenting.  These things are destructive, no matter how well meaning you are.

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39 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

That is not the premise I was discussing.  It is not nice to give kids therapy when they do not need it.  It is not nice to practice what is called "gentle parenting" with no structure or rules.  It is not nice to be a bulldozer or helicopter parenting.  These things are destructive, no matter how well meaning you are.

I understand Shrier is an attorney and an opinion columnist which makes me skeptical of her science background.

Is there data that indicates that these things that you listed are happening on a scale large enough to influence an entire or significant portion of a generation of children?

I ask because most of this just sounds like someone bitching about participation trophies and pronoun usage being the cause for the downfall of civilization.

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53 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

That is not the premise I was discussing.  It is not nice to give kids therapy when they do not need it.  It is not nice to practice what is called "gentle parenting" with no structure or rules.  It is not nice to be a bulldozer or helicopter parenting.  These things are destructive, no matter how well meaning you are.

Like most things, there's a happy medium between coddling and harsh discipline. Going too far in one direction or the other is destructive.  I mean, look at the kids in Footloose.  They just wanted to dance, for chrissakes.

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1 hour ago, utee94 said:

 

As a solid GenXer, I can say that plenty of my peers had some fairly negative views of their surroundings, from ages 18-30.

And y'all took it and made some pretty bad ass music.  I'm looking around at Gen Z right now and...not seeing that.

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5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

And y'all took it and made some pretty bad ass music.  I'm looking around at Gen Z right now and...not seeing that.

When you are not glued to a screen consuming 16 hours of social media, or have access to hundreds of TV channels at your fingertips a lot of creativity can come from staving off boredom. It was also used as a great coping mechanism. Writing great lyrics, catchy hooks and riffs, and getting a little notoriety was great for the ego, especially when your friends and hot girls would bring lawn chairs to your garage to hear your buddies and yourself play.

CHIEF

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22 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Like most things, there's a happy medium between coddling and harsh discipline. Going too far in one direction or the other is destructive.  I mean, look at the kids in Footloose.  They just wanted to dance, for chrissakes.

She discusses that in her book.  Permissive or gentle parenting is destructive.  Authoritarian is destructive -- cold discipline with no love and obey because I said so/fear.  Authoritative -- rules imposed but with love is what she suggests is best.

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48 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Like most things, there's a happy medium between coddling and harsh discipline. Going too far in one direction or the other is destructive.  I mean, look at the kids in Footloose.  They just wanted to dance, for chrissakes.

There is.  For many, the best outlet for those with children and busy lives are athletics.  Teach them early on that all their pussy friends need a swift kick in the dick, and that utilizing your physical dominance over them both makes you feel better and their cries of pain will dramatically help them get to sleep at night.  Teach them early what is best.

7UeI.gif

 

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2 hours ago, Foosters said:

That's the current working theory.

Remember it started with:

Q: Wow, young people are really down and pessimistic, what’s going on?

A: We're being too nice to them

image.thumb.jpeg.d74183acfefc3a03bda1accfb3aa1b5f.jpeg

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58 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

And y'all took it and made some pretty bad ass music.  I'm looking around at Gen Z right now and...not seeing that.

Gen Z is trying with all those SoundCloud artists. They don't have any talent but they are trying.

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17 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

There is.  For many, the best outlet for those with children and busy lives are athletics.  Teach them early on that all their pussy friends need a swift kick in the dick, and that utilizing your physical dominance over them both makes you feel better and their cries of pain will dramatically help them get to sleep at night.  Teach them early what is best.

7UeI.gif

 

can-tell-if-were-joking-or-not-david-ros

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1 hour ago, Frank Drebin said:

She discusses that in her book.  Permissive or gentle parenting is destructive.  Authoritarian is destructive -- cold discipline with no love and obey because I said so/fear.  Authoritative -- rules imposed but with love is what she suggests is best.

And of course, this thread doesn't want to hear it, but that's exactly the discipline we get from our Father-- there is truth and discipline, but also grace (love, for when you screw it up).

**ducks**

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

That is not the premise I was discussing.  It is not nice to give kids therapy when they do not need it.  It is not nice to practice what is called "gentle parenting" with no structure or rules.  It is not nice to be a bulldozer or helicopter parenting.  These things are destructive, no matter how well meaning you are.

Let's cut through the bullshit.  What is wrong with therapy and who decides if it is necessary or not and what type are we talking about because therapy is an umbrella term for a host of services.  

What is gentle parenting and why is it wrong?   How does this mean there are no rules or structure?  Who are you to decide what is their structure and rules?   

What are bulldozer and helicopter parents and how is it wrong?  How do you know what one is vs. what that person is experiencing?   

We make a lot of judgements bases on momentary snapshots.   This type of behavior is what philosophers and religious leaders (Jesus, Siddhartha, David Foster Wallace, etc.) caution us against.   And these generalizations are what is manipulated by bad actors to get otherwise normal people to participate in horrors.   

Edited by Nivek
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56 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

And of course, this thread doesn't want to hear it, but that's exactly the discipline we get from our Father-- there is truth and discipline, but also grace (love, for when you screw it up).

**ducks**

Anyone want to sign up for my cult?

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21 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The public sector is inefficient compared to the private sector as experienced by the client because the public sector’s budgets, hiring authorities, and revenues are set by the legislative process which is not responsive to shifting demands, technologies, etc.  Even the highly professionalized public sectors are vulnerable to this, as you can see when the Army decides it doesn’t need a base anymore but Congress says it does. And we keep electing people who tell you outright that they are going to deliver less efficient and good services in exchange for lower taxes.  
 

You can’t throw some genius MBAs at that simple dynamic and fix it. There are not a bunch of geniuses who ruthlessly manage geniuses in the private sector.  They just are able to redistribute and invest resources in a quicker and more focused way because they don’t have a whole bunch of elected barons who are only accountable to voters they can dupe calling the shots. 
 

LOL, the private sector actively fucks up the public sector. The IRS has a pilot online filing system in some places that’s actually pretty good.  It took this long and you can’t use it because private tax preparers have been lobbying to keep the IRS paper based and shit.  

EnchantingExemplaryHoverfly-max-1mb.gif.efe2d32c7fdf056b1c999ab2ab1ecd0d.gif

'drown it in the bathtub' and then bitch that it's dead. 🙄

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20 minutes ago, mchookem said:

EnchantingExemplaryHoverfly-max-1mb.gif.efe2d32c7fdf056b1c999ab2ab1ecd0d.gif

'drown it in the bathtub' and then bitch that it's dead. 🙄

I don’t know about the state side but on the fed side there are fewer non-military employees in absolute numbers than any time since 1965.  Fed employment peaked in the early 1990s.

I imagine many clerk type jobs just expired as IT got better but that’s still a pretty astounding number while tracking population growth. A lot of U.S. public sector is remarkably efficient and functioning especially when compared to even developed nation counterparts but people aren’t ready to have that discussion.

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10 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I imagine many clerk type jobs just expired as IT got better but that’s still a pretty astounding number while tracking population growth. A lot of U.S. public sector is remarkably efficient and functioning especially when compared to even developed nation counterparts but people aren’t ready to have that discussion.

Well duh then they wouldn't have as many talking points about how the gubmint is bad and inefficient as a way to pitch you on buying their crypto 

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1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Anyone want to sign up for my cult?

 

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

I'm glad that religion works out for you and your family--sincerely--but anyone pushing the "what these kids need these days is more Jesus" agenda can get all the way fucked.

Good and bad parents will still be good or bad parents with or without religion.

Lol, I completely missed the reference to god here.  I literally thought he meant his father.

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1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Well duh then they wouldn't have as many talking points about how the gubmint is bad and inefficient as a way to pitch you on buying their crypto 

Also it’s not true/real.

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On 3/20/2024 at 7:47 PM, Captainant said:

A large portion of that is that there's nowhere else for them to go but online. The third place is dead. 

But also, this whole thing is much larger than one singularly addressable ill. It's not something where just putting the phone down fixes everything else 

I read a study addressing this and how horrific the consequences are of detaching from the natural world and spending too much time on social media and electronics in general. Nature is a natural soothing agent for us and we have largely abandoned “putting our feet in the dirt” in favor of spending all of our time indoors or in concrete jungles. We have to find ways to connect with real people in outdoor spaces as well as time alone in nature. These are steps we have the capability of pursuing and doing.
 

This is something I learned on my own. Living in New York is cool, but the lack of nature and free space to roam and be one with the natural world has been detrimental in certain ways for me personally. 

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1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

 

Lol, I completely missed the reference to god here.  I literally thought he meant his father.

Yeah this is not the place for that, but the religious gonna religious no matter what. I steer completely clear of people who put out their religious beliefs constantly about every situation. If I need to consider how my own beliefs cause me to think of a situation I can easily keep that to myself because there is no need to share it over and over.
 

When people I work with want to talk to me about life the first thing I do is listen and let them describe their life and what they want to change. I never bring my beliefs into what they should do in order to feel better. I just tell them you have one life and that the best thing to do is take each day as a gift and do better today than the day before. From there it’s easier to talk about life.

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7 hours ago, F250 said:

A Spanish surname. It's just one of those things that is always in the back of your head.

We are melanin-challenged in my family. So I've heard different variations of "You look different than I expected" then they pronounce my last name and make one of those "huh" faces. My sisters never got these questions but people often assumed their last name was their married names.

When you experience this all your life you get an understanding that your last name on paper will generate assumptions.

People often expect this guy to show up when they see my name.

  Reveal hidden contents

stinkin_badges_bandito_1770.jpg

 

 

wait, where do y'all live in Texas that anyone GAF about Spanish surnames?

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7 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Yeah this is not the place for that, but the religious gonna religious no matter what. I steer completely clear of people who put out their religious beliefs constantly about every situation. If I need to consider how my own beliefs cause me to think of a situation I can easily keep that to myself because there is no need to share it over and over.
 

When people I work with want to talk to me about life the first thing I do is listen and let them describe their life and what they want to change. I never bring my beliefs into what they should do in order to feel better. I just tell them you have one life and that the best thing to do is take each day as a gift and do better today than the day before. From there it’s easier to talk about life.

If I’m talking to someone I’m close to and care about I’ll let them stage set and then ask: “tell me what you most need from me— are you needing my support, are you looking for my best objective advice, or do you just need to vent?”  It’s a useful way to frame things and people will admit they just want to vent or want to hear support more often than you’d think. If they choose “advice” and then immediately start telling me why I’m wrong or the advice won’t work, then I tell them that no one knows their own situation and what they are able to live with better than they do and stop giving advice. 
 

With work randos I’ll run through the “wow, dang, that’s really tough” cycle. And at the end say something like “sounds like you’ve got some hard decisions, what do you think is the best choice?” Then affirm whatever they say and send them on their way. 
 

I find people are rarely grateful for, or seeking actual insight. 

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3 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I was in a 6 piece band in high school. I played tambourine and bongos. We sucked but still got laid.

Aye, Dios Mio! 

(and then this one time, at Tambourine Camp...)

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46 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

wait, where do y'all live in Texas that anyone GAF about Spanish surnames?

Are you implying that Hispanics in Texas are not subject to prejudicial, racist or discriminatory behavior? Despite all of the fucking history in Texas that can demonstrate it, is this the point you are trying to make?

 

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5 hours ago, BeardIP said:

And of course, this thread doesn't want to hear it, but that's exactly the discipline we get from our Father-- there is truth and discipline, but also grace (love, for when you screw it up).

**ducks**

What is discipline and truth?   Are people of different faiths or those without faith untruthful and undisciplined?   Can someone develop this skill on their own?   Where does it come from then?

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50 minutes ago, Nivek said:

What is discipline and truth?   Are people of different faiths or those without faith untruthful and undisciplined?   Can someone develop this skill on their own?   Where does it come from then?

John 14:6

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9 hours ago, F250 said:

I understand Shrier is an attorney and an opinion columnist which makes me skeptical of her science background.

Is there data that indicates that these things that you listed are happening on a scale large enough to influence an entire or significant portion of a generation of children?

I ask because most of this just sounds like someone bitching about participation trophies and pronoun usage being the cause for the downfall of civilization.

i am gonna argue that it's lack of mental health care, specifically for vets and their families, that have the boomers (specifically but it goes all the way back to world war 1) all fucked in the head thinking that seeking mental health care somehow makes people soft.  that's how the cruelty became the point. 

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