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Posted
33 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I’m not reading all this but it sounds like Derka shouldn’t have stabbed that guy. 

Can't believe I'm agreeing with Hank Scorpio but here we are

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Posted

This thread just keeps getting better. 

It's truly a good look at the oddity of our world now influenced my social media, and the further insanity of that reflection within the Surly community. In fairness, that is every Surly thread, but the start and subsequent path of this one has been particularly amusing. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

Not fast enough to run track with enough black people to understand we sometimes go and hang out with other kids at their tent. Even my wife, who coincidentally ran track at the University of Nevada(the reason my kid runs track), is laughing at the idea that high school kids don't go to other kids' tents.

He was alone under another team’s tent on a cloudy mild day (while not even competing?). 
 

We all wish he could simply walk away when asked if it was an honest mistake or no other intentions.   If he was waiting for someone he could have easily said so.
 

If the victim was a jerk while asking, teenagers might get vulgar, get in each others face, fight/wrestle etc which they both know will be stopped and disciplined by the school quickly.  Even if a punch followed by a fall on the head lead to death, while tragic, it’s not murder. 
 

That is not what happened here at all (according to current information). It was murder. 
 

The only discussion worth exploring is the sentencing and that is all about the nuance, detail and circumstance.

15,20,30, life?  Or tie to age. Out/parole when 35? 40? 45 etc. 

How much weight should be given to the victim’s family wishes?

But I don’t see anyone arguing it is not murder in layman’s terms. 

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Posted
57 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It may not be a mistake that just happens, but most murderers don't in fact recidivate as murderers, or even other violent offenses.  https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/a-new-lease-on-life/  And that despite our crime school prison system.

And they do get out, but you can rest assured that they're probably nowhere near you.  

Those numbers are significantly worse than I expected them to be: one percent recommit murder, 22 percent recommit violent crime, and 51 percent get arrested for criming again.  The numbers are even worse for people incarcerated for violent crime.  Needless to say even the one percent that do another murder are killing at a rate exponentially higher than the rest of the population (something like .001 percent of American adults commit a murder).  All in all, this website confirms my firm belief that murderers are in general anti-social, have poor impulse control, and that there is little benefit to allowing them to roam free. 
 

I’m not sure what number I would find acceptable but if 51 percent of murderers we let out get arrested again within five years I am very comfortable saying that we let too many murderers out of prison. 
 

There is also where we distribute the risk and benefits.  If we let a murderer (or really any violent criminal) out of jail, that person stands to gain a lot, perhaps a few people close to him benefit.  The rest of us gain at best nothing but stand to lose quite a bit.  On the flip side, the rest of us don’t suffer much harm at all aside from taxes if we keep a violent criminal locked away and in fact stand to gain quite a bit.  I am not particularly interested in something where the benefits primarily accrue to convicted  criminals and the risks and negatives all fall on non-criminals.  I feel the same way about white-collar crime and fraudsters, I think people who do that are inherently untrustworthy and predatory and should not get a second chance to fraud people again. 
 

For what its worth, I do think jails in America are completely inhumane and that drives a lot of the discussion.  I strongly support safe, clean, even enriching places to stash criminals away from everyone else where we don’t have to think about them. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Well, as long as it's only for a decade or so.  I mean he was just a young man who never could have known thrusting a knife into someone's chest can cause problems with them keeping their heart intact.   Need that 25 yo frontal lobe development to completely understand nuanced acts such as murder.

That's true.  You're right, better to be murdered at 17 instead.  

You're imputing comments made by others onto me for whatever reason.  That's okay, though, as you and the fellas who neg-repped me missed the point.    You don't base sentencing on whether or not the victim was going to go on and lead an extraordinary life, because there is no way to know that.  It's an entirely moronic way to determine sentencing.  If a victim is a complete and worthless piece of shit, their murderer should still go to prison for a long time.  This guy will spend a long time in jail, and deservedly so.  So will other folks who murder people.  It doesn't, and shouldn't, matter who the victim was or what make-believe life one might imagine he would go on to live.   But that make-believe notion is precisely what has some folks in this thread way too emotionally attached to this story while they mostly ignore the other twenty thousand murders that happen in this country every year.

3 hours ago, Hate said:

We’ll never know because he is dead. 

Yes, that was the point.

Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

There is also where we distribute the risk and benefits.  If we let a murderer (or really any violent criminal) out of jail, that person stands to gain a lot, perhaps a few people close to him benefit.  The rest of us gain at best nothing but stand to lose quite a bit.  On the flip side, the rest of us don’t suffer much harm at all aside from taxes if we keep a violent criminal locked away and in fact stand to gain quite a bit.

I don't necessarily disagree or agree here but I would like to see some actual data to back up this assertion because it seems like pure feelycraft.

Our criminal justice system is already far more punitive than most when compared to other developed/OECD nations.

Edited by Brian Fantana
Posted
3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I don't necessarily disagree or agree here but I would like to see some actual data to back up this assertion because it seems like pure feelycraft.

Our criminal justice system is already far more punitive than most when compared to other developed/OECD nations.

Not sure how you put data on it.  If you let out a criminal, that’s something very valuable for him.  Its not really worth anything to me, I don’t gain anything much but do take on the risk that me or someone I care about will be around when he becomes one of the 22 percent of murderers who go on to commit another violent crime, or maybe its my stuff that gets stolen if he’s one of the fifty-one percent that “only” commit non-violent crime.  If he stays in jail, I assume none of that risk and the cost to me is my taxes. And needless to say it costs me a lot of taxes if these people are outside and criming, I’m just paying more cops and DAs and fewer prison guards. 
 

I don’t look at is as punitive. Its more of a “you are now out of the game of society” because you demonstrated you refuse to play by the rules.  Which is why I think prisons need to be far more humane, its not about extracting revenge.  
 

 

Posted
2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Not sure how you put data on it.  If you let out a criminal, that’s something very valuable for him.  Its not really worth anything to me, I don’t gain anything much but do take on the risk that me or someone I care about will be around when he becomes one of the 22 percent of murderers who go on to commit another violent crime, or maybe its my stuff that gets stolen if he’s one of the fifty-one percent that “only” commit non-violent crime.  If he stays in jail, I assume none of that risk and the cost to me is my taxes. And needless to say it costs me a lot of taxes if these people are outside and criming, I’m just paying more cops and DAs and fewer prison guards. 
 

I don’t look at is as punitive. Its more of a “you are now out of the game of society” because you demonstrated you refuse to play by the rules.  Which is why I think prisons need to be far more humane, its not about extracting revenge.  
 

 

Hmm, I see where you're coming from. I'm not sure I agree but thanks for the explanation.

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Posted
12 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

This thread just keeps getting better. 

It's truly a good look at the oddity of our world now influenced my social media, and the further insanity of that reflection within the Surly community. In fairness, that is every Surly thread, but the start and subsequent path of this one has been particularly amusing. 

This whole case is tailor made to show the decay and depravity inherent in the USA. Black kid vs white kid. Frisco, TX. 

A more perfect scenario and setting could not be crafted to display why this country is currently in a state of economic and social implosion. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Not sure how you put data on it.  If you let out a criminal, that’s something very valuable for him.  Its not really worth anything to me, I don’t gain anything much but do take on the risk that me or someone I care about will be around when he becomes one of the 22 percent of murderers who go on to commit another violent crime, or maybe its my stuff that gets stolen if he’s one of the fifty-one percent that “only” commit non-violent crime.  If he stays in jail, I assume none of that risk and the cost to me is my taxes. And needless to say it costs me a lot of taxes if these people are outside and criming, I’m just paying more cops and DAs and fewer prison guards. 
 

I don’t look at is as punitive. Its more of a “you are now out of the game of society” because you demonstrated you refuse to play by the rules.  Which is why I think prisons need to be far more humane, its not about extracting revenge.  
 

 

Well, I can certainly buy that we need to do something other than incarcerate people in Thunderdomes for excessive terms.

Also, the article notes that the BJS statistics quoted include both arrest (without conviction) and probation/parole violations as recidivism.  Given the environment into which most long-term sentenced are released and their no-doubt marvelously developed social skills, it's a wonder the numbers are as low as they are.

 

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
1 hour ago, Hermanator said:

This whole case is tailor made to show the decay and depravity inherent in the USA. Black kid vs white kid. Frisco, TX. 

A more perfect scenario and setting could not be crafted to display why this country is currently in a state of economic and social implosion. 

Economic definitely. Poor whote kid vs rich black kid

Posted
3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, I can certainly buy that we need to do something other than incarcerate people in Thunderdomes for excessive terms.

Also, the article notes that the BJS statistics quoted include both arrest (without conviction) and probation/parole violations as recidivism.  Given the environment into which most long-term sentenced are released and their no-doubt marvelously developed social skills, it's a wonder the numbers are as low as they are.

 

I'd be okay with an actual Thunderdome for serial rapist and pedophiles vs homicide prisoners.

Except, rather than 2 men/women (let's not be sexist) enter one man/woman leaves. It's 2 people enter one person breathes. They get to spend the rest of their life in a cushy Sweden style prison built for the winners. Participating is optional, get beat up and maybe killed in regular prison for any pedo/rapist/serial killer/murder or, roll the dice and live a "nice" existence for the rest of your life in Sweden Cells. 

Yeah, I'm being hyperbolic but... am I? Fuck, air them in PPV, get influencers to do the marketing and use the proceeds to pay for the Sweden Cells.

Kinda surprised China hasn't implemented this yet, but I guess that would require China allowing its citizens and the world to know how many people it actually has in prison.

Posted
39 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Are you assuming a perfect and unbiased system where people aren't wrongfully accused and convicted?

Because that's the opposite of what we have, and I'm sure that's going to get worse as this administration goes farther rogue. The innocence project and DNA testing alone have proven how badly our CJ system screws stuff up with racism and prejudice bias built into every level of the system. 

I'm not assuming any fucking thing, I'm saying I'm not a fan of rapists and pedophiles. But I know let's fucking cloak room the fuck out of that too.

Yay!!!!

Posted
3 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

I'd be okay with an actual Thunderdome for serial rapist and pedophiles vs homicide prisoners.

Except, rather than 2 men/women (let's not be sexist) enter one man/woman leaves. It's 2 people enter one person breathes. They get to spend the rest of their life in a cushy Sweden style prison built for the winners. Participating is optional, get beat up and maybe killed in regular prison for any pedo/rapist/serial killer/murder or, roll the dice and live a "nice" existence for the rest of your life in Sweden Cells. 

Yeah, I'm being hyperbolic but... am I? Fuck, air them in PPV, get influencers to do the marketing and use the proceeds to pay for the Sweden Cells.

Kinda surprised China hasn't implemented this yet, but I guess that would require China allowing its citizens and the world to know how many people it actually has in prison.

Can we put the influencers in there with them?

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Posted
46 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Yes you are, Brett. Yes you fucking are. 

The American CJ system wrongfully imprisons a ton of people. It's a racist and biased system because it's a product of a racist and biased nation. President out front should have told you that. 

So no, sending people this fucked up system wants to a kill fest Thunderdome is incredibly fucked up and stupid. 

Okay Mr Virtue Signaling! Thanks for enlightening me as to why my hyperbolic, fictional, silly expression of hate for murders, rapist and pedophiles supports racism and Trump.

Now let me ask you a question. Besides enlightening people on the internet what the fuck are you actually doing about it?

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Posted

On to actual fucking updates - apparently the attacker has ditched his first defense team and gone with someone new, a Mike Howard out of north Dallas.  For all you legal cunts, is this a result of flowing GoFund me money now, or a result that the family didn't like the direction the first attorney was going/steering?

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Posted
48 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

With a bond reduction of this amount, does this mean the judge thinks the DA's case isn't as strong as when the bond was set?

No, not necessarily.

Posted
1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

With a bond reduction of this amount, does this mean the judge thinks the DA's case isn't as strong as when the bond was set?

Probably not.  More likely the judge is does not believe Anthony is a flight risk or a serious, immediate threat to others.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Jerry Callo said:

Probably not.  More likely the judge is does not believe Anthony is a flight risk or a serious, immediate threat to others.

This.  Those are the most relevant criteria for setting a bond.  A bond is not to punish the guilty, because - and this is really important - the accused in such cases has not been adjudicated guilty of the crime charged, and often never IS so adjudicated.

Bonds are to protect against flight and avoiding trial, and to protect the public if the person represents an immediate and serious threat to others.  As both risks seem on the low end in this case, a bond reduction is not nonsensical.

The amount of his bond will not have any bearing on his final adjudication, any finding of guilt, or any sentence.  That is, if he was gonna be found guilty and sentenced to 30 years, that was going to happen regardless of the amount of his bond.  Likewise, if he was going to be found not guilty by reason of self-defense, that was also going to happen regardless to the amount of his bond.

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Posted

Serious question re bond and flight risk, doesn't the strength of the state's case play into calculating the risk of flight?  If I'm about to go to trial facing 20 plus years and my chances of being found not guilty are miniscule, you better believe I'm researching countries with no extradition and how to get to them.

Posted
1 hour ago, Not a cat said:

Serious question re bond and flight risk, doesn't the strength of the state's case play into calculating the risk of flight?  If I'm about to go to trial facing 20 plus years and my chances of being found not guilty are miniscule, you better believe I'm researching countries with no extradition and how to get to them.

And not to mention, with the GoFundme money, now has the means to do this. 

Posted
3 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

Probably not.  More likely the judge is does not believe Anthony is a serious, immediate threat to others.

Lulz

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Posted
32 minutes ago, Hate said:

I think that by murdering someone you’ve already proven you are a danger to society. 

Hey, he was just having a bad day. It's not like he's gonna keep wandering around track meets looking for new people to stab. I mean he probably won't.

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Hate said:

He told the police he did it. 

Irrelevant. He hasn't been found guilty. And he also told the police it was self defense and expressed concern for the victim, which at least partially tracks from eye witness accounts that he was pushed prior the stabbing. This is a tragic case. He will likely go to jail for a long a time. But nothing here justifies up rooting our most sacred legal principle. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted
On 4/10/2025 at 11:39 PM, ztejas said:

My worst was my DUI where I sat in a cell with the lights on for 24 hours without any communication or knowing what the fuck was going on on the outside. (I'm sure other posters here have had similar experiences)

I have had guys say that county isn't always that bad. I think once you know what you're in for and when you're getting out you can kind of adapt.

That said - I think anything beyond 3-6 months in a decent situation is pretty dehumanizing and not something I'd ever like to experience. 

I once did a two hour stretch in a Mexican jail - was arrested in a cantina for being with a group of fellow students who started a big fight over a couple of hookers with a rival school’s students.
I swear, I never crawled out of the booth to get involved in the ruckus, and was an innocent bystander who was swept up with the rioting mob. 

At least I was able to “bail” myself out of the drunk tank with a fifty Peso ($4) bill.

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Posted
22 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I once did a two hour stretch in a Mexican jail - was arrested in a cantina for being with a group of fellow students who started a big fight over a couple of hookers with a rival school’s students.
I swear, I never crawled out of the booth to get involved in the ruckus, and was an innocent bystander who was swept up with the rioting mob. 

At least I was able to “bail” myself out of the drunk tank with a fifty Peso ($4) bill.

I once paid a Costa Rican cop $20 to get out of a traffic violation, so this hits close to home. 

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