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Posted
33 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Jesus Christ, she'd be shredded, probably assassinated.

I have zero such faith.  The American people have gone full racist again, and man, they LIKE how it feels.  ESPECIALLY suburban women.  Hate is fucking intoxicating, and we're drunk as hell on it now.

You mean, on "MARXIST COMMUNISM?????"  That's all the GQP has to do.  Call him a marxist communist non-stop, and he's toast.  It doesn't have to be true, it just has to appeal to idiots.

That is the entire story of America politics 2025: it doesn't have to be true, it just has to appeal to idiots.

The sooner the Dems wake up to that and start playing that game, the better a chance they'll have.

Which is never going to happen.   So, we're fucked.  We are a full-on idiocracy now, and there's no going back.

I can always count on Brisket to be further out on the ledge, and I respect it. 

I might be slightly more optimistic, but the last 4 words of the above post are true and I think everyone - politicians, voters, any American - really need to come to grips with it: there is no going back. What was will never be again. This country has morphed so quickly that you can't even look to 2024 to figure out what to do next.

We need an entirely new path. Past victories and strategies are meaningless. 

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Posted
36 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Jesus Christ, she'd be shredded, probably assassinated.

I have zero such faith.  The American people have gone full racist again, and man, they LIKE how it feels.  ESPECIALLY suburban women.  Hate is fucking intoxicating, and we're drunk as hell on it now.

You mean, on "MARXIST COMMUNISM?????"  That's all the GQP has to do.  Call him a marxist communist non-stop, and he's toast.  It doesn't have to be true, it just has to appeal to idiots.

That is the entire story of America politics 2025: it doesn't have to be true, it just has to appeal to idiots.

The sooner the Dems wake up to that and start playing that game, the better a chance they'll have.

Which is never going to happen.   So, we're fucked.  We are a full-on idiocracy now, and there's no going back.

68a304fa70a28f0bef156fb64a8d28b66dacc876

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Posted

Also it would serve the Democrats well to treat Biden's 2020 win as a complete fluke. That if a global pandemic didn't happen, Trump would have easily won again. 

2020 presidential election was 100% a pyrrhic victory.  Take nothing positive from it. 

 

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Posted
6 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

ANY woman is DOA, unfortunately and unbelievably. It's a shame because we're going to run AOC. She'd be the best thing to happen to the presidency and country in decades, but there's basically no chance. The drooling idiots of this country can't imagine a woman as president and it scares them. 

I'd be a lot more optimistic about a gay man's chances, actually. 

Condoleezza Rice would still kill if she ever wanted to run.

Posted
Just now, Rip76 said:

Condoleezza Rice would still kill if she ever wanted to run.

No she wouldn't.  Fox news would paint her as a radical BLM Marxist Neocon DEI hire, and it would be over before it even starts.

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Posted (edited)

I had a bit of a dawning epiphany this morning reading the Politico articles on Latinos who flipped for Trump (Link) and Adam Jentleson (former CoS for Fetterman) starting a think thank working in support of moderating interest group influence (Link).

The Democratic Party is just consumed with the idea that it's a big tent, and the electorate can be sliced up demographically with targeted appeals for each, narrowly defined subcategory.  South Texas Mexicans (1st or 2nd gen), suburban women who voted for Bush but hate Trump, voters who grew up in a church but now define themselves as non-religious--they know these are groups, they have the data to target them, and they've convinced themselves this is how you win elections.  It's a confluence between the knowing that the Democratic constituency doesn't have a lot in common, a preference for inclusiveness, and openness to bring in tech solutions (or mirroring what the social media companies have done to steal attention from traditional media). 

Even now, the party is proposing that it needs a leftie Joe Rogan, or needs to focus on what might bring back in young white males.  That the medium is the message and that Democratic policies are popular, it's the failure to make government work that's the problem (aka the Ezra Klein analysis).  The Biden BBB Plan and Inflation Reduction Act was partially an effort to help in areas that lost jobs over the previous three decades (if you're Biden and you're bemoaning the loss of union jobs, and believe that unions inherently are aligned with Dem interests, then increasing union jobs solves multiple problems).  The Buttigieg's and other Biden administrators have a party line of "we failed to do it fast enough and when we did move fast, we failed to get credit for our wins." 

 

Unfortunately, that's just another way to isolate out a portion of the electorate and what can't be overcome is that the message this sends to everyone else.  Now @Brisketexan just wrote this:

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

The American people have gone full racist again, and man, they LIKE how it feels.  ESPECIALLY suburban women.  Hate is fucking intoxicating, and we're drunk as hell on it now.

And it's substantively correct (if a little hyperbolic), but the idea behind it is that voters are rejecting a Democratic party that says "I want to help you, first gen college African American.  And you, Appalachian single mom.  And you, Portland hipster lesbian," even if you're in one of those groups because you're not uniting behind anything and the Democratic party is happy to cater to you as an individual.  

Furthermore, maybe you're actually irate that, as a single mom in West Virginia, you resent these first generation African Americans college kids getting help, that the Portland hipster lesbian has access to health care or community benefits that you do not, etc.  There is no benefit to being a member of a coalition that tries to give a little something to everyone, because your perception is someone else is getting more. 

It's easy to say "we need to get mean", or "this doesn't work, do the other thing."  I'm not sure it's very clear what the "other thing" is, but maybe it's as simple as to stop targeting subgroups just because you can.  If you have a political message that isn't a good fit for a larger community, then it's a poor fit for winning elections. 

 

Edited by LCHorn
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Posted
I had a bit of a dawning epiphany this morning reading the Politico articles on Latinos who flipped for Trump (Link) and Adam Jentleson (former CoS for Fetterman) starting a think thank working in support of moderating interest group influence (Link).
The Democratic Party is just consumed with the idea that it's a big tent, and the electorate can be sliced up demographically with targeted appeals for each, narrowly defined subcategory.  South Texas Mexicans (1st or 2nd gen), suburban women who voted for Bush but hate Trump, voters who grew up in a church but now define themselves as non-religious--they know these are groups, they have the data to target them, and they've convinced themselves this is how you win elections.  It's a confluence between the knowing that the Democratic constituency doesn't have a lot in common, a preference for inclusiveness, and openness to bring in tech solutions (or mirroring what the social media companies have done to steal attention from traditional media). 
Even now, the party is proposing that it needs a leftie Joe Rogan, or needs to focus on what might bring back in young white males.  That the medium is the message and that Democratic policies are popular, it's the failure to make government work that's the problem (aka the Ezra Klein analysis).  The Biden BBB Plan and Inflation Reduction Act was partially an effort to help in areas that lost jobs over the previous three decades (if you're Biden and you're bemoaning the loss of union jobs, and believe that unions inherently are aligned with Dem interests, then increasing union jobs solves multiple problems).  The Buttigieg's and other Biden administrators have a party line of "we failed to do it fast enough and when we did move fast, we failed to get credit for our wins." 
 
Unfortunately, that's just another way to isolate out a portion of the electorate and what can't be overcome is that the message this sends to everyone else.  Now [mention=593]Brisketexan[/mention] just wrote this:
And it's substantively correct (if a little hyperbolic), but the idea behind it is that voters are rejecting a Democratic party that says "I want to help you, first gen college African American.  And you, Appalachian single mom.  And you, Portland hipster lesbian," even if you're in one of those groups because you're not uniting behind anything and the Democratic party is happy to cater to you as an individual.  
Furthermore, maybe you're actually irate that, as a single mom in West Virginia, you resent these first generation African Americans college kids getting help, that the Portland hipster lesbian has access to health care or community benefits that you do not, etc.  There is no benefit to being a member of a coalition that tries to give a little something to everyone, because your perception is someone else is getting more. 
It's easy to say "we need to get mean", or "this doesn't work, do the other thing."  I'm not sure it's very clear what the "other thing" is, but maybe it's as simple as to stop targeting subgroups just because you can.  If you have a political message that isn't a good fit for a larger community, then it's a poor fit for winning elections. 
 

That’s why you need to pick on the small and the weak. It’s the time-honored path to power.
Posted

If we survive the dark midnight of the American soul that is still to come, meaning we do somehow have elections but our institutions and democratic norms are totally fucked... I'm watching Adm. McRaven and Raphael Warnock. 

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Tigersnake said:

If we survive the dark midnight of the American soul that is still to come, meaning we do somehow have elections but our institutions and democratic norms are totally fucked... I'm watching Adm. McRaven and Raphael Warnock. 

I had high expectations for Radical LIberal Raphael Warnock but he voted for the Lincoln Riley Act (a sign of weakness) plus he's old, he's not white, and he's not expendable in the Senate because it's not a safe D state and the GA lege and GA governor will stack the odds

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Posted
If we survive the dark midnight of the American soul that is still to come, meaning we do somehow have elections but our institutions and democratic norms are totally fucked... I'm watching Adm. McRaven and Raphael Warnock. 

McRaven doesn’t fit my age criteria, but he has the resume to maybe make it work. I just haven’t seen any evidence that he has the political chops (or desire) to be viable.

He’d have to be willing to go scorched earth, though. Call JD Vance a pussy to his face type shit. He’d get eaten alive if he just tries to be the wise, calm military man.
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LCHorn said:

And it's substantively correct (if a little hyperbolic), but the idea behind it is that voters are rejecting a Democratic party that says "I want to help you, first gen college African American.  And you, Appalachian single mom.  And you, Portland hipster lesbian," even if you're in one of those groups because you're not uniting behind anything and the Democratic party is happy to cater to you as an individual. 

It’s hyperbolic bullshit of the first order.  
 

You all seriously need a fucking reality check.  Americans are NOT racist as a default.  Live some fucking real life and you see a damn broad spectrum of people treating each other pretty damn fairly.

To the D party and men.  The last 15 or so years has been spent by the left telling straight white men they are the root of all evil.  So it’s surprising they don’t want to sign up for more of that?

Edited by Incredulity
Posted
1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

the left telling straight white men the are the root of all evil.

The fact anyone believes this is an accurate description of reality is a testament to how effective propaganda is on Americans. The most subtle critiques and recommendations are treated like unforgivable affronts.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

You all seriously need a fucking reality check.  Americans are NOT racist as a default.  Live some fucking real life and you see a damn broad spectrum of people treating each other pretty damn fairly.

Are you a person of color? 'Cause if not, I don't think you can speak confidently on how they are treated. 

 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

The last 15 or so years has been spent by the left telling straight white men they are the root of all evil.

False.  It's been 16 years of Fox news and the Right-o-Sphere telling white men that the Dems say that straight white men are the root of all evil.  It's a message packaged and sold by Fox and company, not by the actual non-MAGA world (everyone who isn't MAGA is a libtard or marxist or RINO).

And it worked.  Because it had perfect symbiosis with the path to power: unite the strong against a common, but weak, enemy.  Punching down at "the other" works to gain and consolidate power, 100% of the time.

Because we HAVE heard a consistent message from one political movement about a certain ethnicity that's to blame for everything:  non-stop messaging, for decades now, that brown people are the cause of literally every problem in American life (don't tell me "just the illegal ones!"...because even THAT is stupid as shit, Jose the sheetrocker is helping, not hurting, and it's ULTRA-bullshit because we know how many hispanics are "the enemy."  The president's chief adviser gave the number: 65 million.  That's the number of ALL hispanics in the US, including legal residents and US citizens.  We are ALL the enemy....and a good chunk of us are dumb enough to vote for that shit, too).

There's no curtain they're hiding behind.  There's no subtlety.  It's pure-dee old-fashioned race-hatred and race-blaming.  We're murderers, rapists, and drug dealers, and we should have no right to due process -- if the admin says we're enemies of the state, we should be subject to arrest and shipping us off to God knows where with no due process.  Again, no hyperbole at all -- that is the actual plainly stated (stated REPEATEDLY, mind you) position of the sitting President of the United States.

Yes, we're a fucking racist country, and getting more racist by the moment.  Because, again, we live in a space of cognitive dissonance.  Most people don't want to see their friend Jose, who works hard at the pizzeria or whatnot, to suffer any.  They love Jose, and want him to stay.  But if a trainload of Joses is rounded up and shipped to El Salvador, they fucking cheer it.  On an individual level, most people don't act racist.  On a societal level, they want all the brown people out of here, yesterday, leaving American for "real Americans."  Both things are true.

Don't worry, the Dems have no idea how to play in that space.  It is safely the GQP's for decades to come.  Using demonization of the "other" as a foundation for taking and consolidating power, and then wielding it with brutal vengeance, is a time-honored script.  There's no real counter to it, so you've won.  Congratulations.

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Posted
4 hours ago, chainsaw said:

There was a leadership vacuum and it's being filled by the strongest actors in the party.

1. AOC

2. Sanders

3. Crockett

4. Kamala Harris

5. Buttigieg / Jeffries (TIE)

7. Booker

8. Newsom

I'm honestly shocked Jeffries is as high as he is, but look at that top three and compare how the public perceives them to how Booker and Newsom are perceived today.

https://coefficient.org/national-approval-study/

I think these polls are worthless, FYI. And here's a new one. 

 

Posted

If trump runs for a 3rd Obama runs and wipes the fucking floor with him and then executes him live on national TV at the inauguration.

If not then it'll be AOC or Pete. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I think these polls are worthless, FYI. And here's a new one. 

 

Very curious who these 569 RVs are, but either way that doesn't mean Kamala or Barack Obama are the "face" of the party.

Leadership vacuum, filled by AOC and Bernie.

Posted
20 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I think these polls are worthless, FYI. And here's a new one. 

 

If you pulled Obama, Biden, Sanders and Harris out of this list and handed me a ranked choice ballot for the rest, I'd go 1. Pete, 2. Walz, 3. AOC, and wipe my ass with the rest of the list. Walz might be the most electable "Everyman" on the list and I've wondered several times if the outcome would have been different if they'd flipped spots on the ticket. 

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Posted
23 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Also it would serve the Democrats well to treat Biden's 2020 win as a complete fluke. That if a global pandemic didn't happen, Trump would have easily won again. 

2020 presidential election was 100% a pyrrhic victory.  Take nothing positive from it. 

 

A big reason we won was down to Dump's dumbass making his voters think early voting and voting by mail were bad for some reason. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

If you pulled Obama, Biden, Sanders and Harris out of this list and handed me a ranked choice ballot for the rest, I'd go 1. Pete, 2. Walz, 3. AOC, and wipe my ass with the rest of the list. Walz might be the most electable "Everyman" on the list and I've wondered several times if the outcome would have been different if they'd flipped spots on the ticket. 

I think he would have won more swing states if he was #1 AND if he kicked Biden's loser staffers out of the campaign.

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Posted
On 6/3/2025 at 6:23 PM, Hank Kingsley said:

Are you a person of color? 'Cause if not, I don't think you can speak confidently on how they are treated. 

 

He has a black friend or had a black friend. Same difference. 

Posted
16 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I think he would have won more swing states if he was #1 AND if he kicked Biden's loser staffers out of the campaign.

Inflation probably would have doomed any Democrat's campaign.

Them's the breaks.

Posted
3 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Inflation probably would have doomed any Democrat's campaign.

Them's the breaks.

I disagree there. The "keys to the white house" guy favored Kamala Harris. This was a fumble.



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