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Posted
32 minutes ago, Saint Tacky said:

Here is the WSJ article referencing the maintenance worker (sorry for the pay wall). In the article on Camp Mystic, alumna Amy Hudson—who spent 14 years at the camp beginning in 1980—recounts that during her time: “J.C. Mattox, the longtime maintenance man, would stand watch during a storm to monitor the river.”

'How a Flash Flood Turned Camp Mystic Into a Disaster Zone'

Wow, Amy is my best friend from HS's widow. I mentioned it on one of these Hill Country flood threads. Amy, originally from HP but lives in SAT now, was the equestrian instructor when my buddy was working in the kitchen during summers off from Baylor.

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Posted

OK one last response.

So Glenn Juenke apparently was the night watchman for Camp Mystic.  This article relates his rescue efforts that morning:

https://93qcountry.com/1565159/heroes-of-hill-country/

Quote

Glenn Juenke, a night guard at Camp Mystic, was on duty when the flood waters began to rush into the camp. he acted quickly and began placing girls in the building called “Wiggle Inn” on mattresses, guiding them to safety amid the flood waters, according to CNN.

“I witnessed firsthand the courage and faith that your daughters displayed during some of the most terrifying moments of their young lives,” Juenke said in an interview with CNN. “Each of those sweet girls (were) cold, wet, and frightened — but they were also incredibly brave. They trusted me, and we leaned on each other through a long, harrowing night together inside their cabin.”

So he was on duty when the flood waters began to rush into the camp.  Without minimizing what appear to have been his heroic lifesaving efforts , one wonders if he received any notification (on a cell phone, the old Kerr County beeper system I read about somewhere, land lines, some other means) that the NWS had issued a flash flood warning of catastrophic loss of life around 1 am and if so why he was unable to do more than he did when he did.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

And apparently those cabins were in not just a flood zone but the FEMA "floodway" which has huge restrictions on new development.

https://www.npr.org/2025/07/09/nx-s1-5460970/fema-texas-flooding-floodplain-camp-mystic

 

Screenshot 2025-07-10 095729.png

 

3 hours ago, Hook1997 said:

Lots of Monday morning quarterbacking going on..  The people that own these camps have probably seen 100’s of flash flood warnings and watches and in the last 40 years and it hasn’t swept away their cabins. After a while you tend to ignore them to a point because it never floods you. No one knows exactly how high a flash flood will get before it happens and this one being in the middle of the night didn’t help.  Now a siren alert system definitely would have helped but that’s not on them and to put blame on people that died trying to save people is a bit much.  

My daughter was a Mystic camper several years ago and stayed in one of the cabins (Bumble Inn) that lost all of the girls and counselors.  If you look at the map showing the location of the cabins (white outline), the two furthest to the northwest are Bumble Inn and I think the other is Twins I and II.  The rest of the cabins are in a line running northeast to southwest.  Those cabins are right up against a large hill (dark gray color). So, I am thinking the girls in those cabins were able to get out the back windows and immediately climb up hill to safety.  Where as the cabins further away from the hill (Bumble Inn, Twins I and II, others?) had no where to escape and were quickly surrounded by water.  I have not heard what other cabins besides Bumble Inn took the most losses, but I think I read somewhere that Twins was one of the ones Dick Eastland was trying to evacuate when he was swept away with girls in his vehicle.

It's absolutely no excuse but unfortunately I would guess the second quote (Hook's) might be pretty accurate.  The Eastlands and previous family members have owned this camp for close to 100 years, obviously they had never seen anything of this magnitude.

I mentioned in a post earlier in this thread, that all the facilities (dining hall, infirmary, activities building, etc..) are all down below in the "flats" area of the camp where the younger girls cabins are located.  And the older campers are on Senior Hill which is a bit of steep hike for the younger girls and is more suited for the older campers.  So I'm fairly certain proximity to facilities and ease of access are the main reason for why the young girls were located in the flats.

One other thing I noticed, the valley the river runs in, along the camp "pinches in" against the large hill to the southeast, on the far east side of the camp area, creating a kind of funnel.  With the amount of water in this flood, I am betting that narrowing might have caused the flood water to back up and rise even higher than the max river crest.

In a sick twist of irony the name of the infirmary building is "Heaven Can Wait".

This whole thing is just shattering. I have met some of the people who were lost and one of my nieces friends lost her daughter who was at Camp Mystic and has not been recovered to date.

 

Edited by sunset87
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Posted
1 minute ago, freyguy said:

No telling how many people are buried under all that throughout the area.

yeah, I'm afraid there are going to be so many people that are never found, until the next big flood washes away the sand and stone to reveal what is left 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said:

Ford F250 (the vehicle, not the poster here) buried in rock and sand:

 

May be an image of 4 people

Jesus Christ

Nature is powerful and scary as fuck. We are nothing but defenseless ants against this 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

OK one last response.

So Glenn Juenke apparently was the night watchman for Camp Mystic.  This article relates his rescue efforts that morning:

https://93qcountry.com/1565159/heroes-of-hill-country/

So he was on duty when the flood waters began to rush into the camp.  Without minimizing what appear to have been his heroic lifesaving efforts , one wonders if he received any notification (on a cell phone, the old Kerr County beeper system I read about somewhere, land lines, some other means) that the NWS had issued a flash flood warning of catastrophic loss of life around 1 am and if so why he was unable to do more than he did when he did.

Glenn should know exactly how it works and who to call. He was the Ingram Chief of Police up until 1-2 years ago. 

Edited by Texas Fight
Ingram
Posted
8 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said:

Ford F250 (the vehicle, not the poster here) buried in rock and sand:

 

May be an image of 4 people

That illustrates the power and destruction of such vast amounts of moving water. Hard to fathom. Devastating.

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said:

Ford F250 (the vehicle, not the poster here) buried in rock and sand:

 

May be an image of 4 people

That's unimaginable.   Can't even believe that happened and yet, here we are.  Unreal.

Posted
20 minutes ago, sunset87 said:

One other thing I noticed, the valley the river runs in, along the camp "pinches in" against the large hill to the southeast, on the far east side of the camp area, creating a kind of funnel.  With the amount of water in this flood, I am betting that narrowing might have caused the flood water to back up and rise even higher than the max river crest.

 

Yes, Mystic seems to be an unusually vulnerable area.

Was the South Fork more seriously flooded than North Fork?  It seems so, several of the other camps are on the North Fork.  

We've heard some stuff about La Junta and Mystic, but Heart o The Hills is between them and have heard nothing, that I am aware of.  It's also on the north bank of the river.

Posted
1 hour ago, Saint Tacky said:

My heart tell me the Eastlands were good people. People who loved the camp and the children entrusted to them. And if Mr. Eastland were here today, I believe he'd be doing the exact opposite of what we’ve seen from city, county, and state leaders. He would raise his hand and say: “I’m sorry. I should have done better.

Just look at the difference between someone like Mr. Eastland and Ingram City Councilman Raymond Howard. One died in his car on what amounted to a suicide mission to save several young women. The other stood on the bank and shouted to a child being swept downriver to “grab a tree or something.” Both bore responsibility—one as a camp owner, the other as an elected official who ignored ample warning—and both failed to meet the standard of care expected of them. Their failures didn’t start when the river rose; they began long before the first drops of rain.

Why wasn’t someone at Camp Mystic awake and monitoring conditions that night? In the aftermath, there have been references to a longtime maintenance staffer who, in years past, would stay up overnight during storms to monitor the river. When did that practice stop—and more importantly, why? Maybe it didn’t. Maybe someone was there and fell asleep to the droning of a weather radio. But if that’s true, it only compounds the tragedy. The cabins along the riverbank were known to be vulnerable, even under less extreme circumstances. And when you're housing 750 children on a property with limited elevation, that should demand not just caution, but heightened, even obsessive vigilance—especially during storms. That level of care shouldn’t be optional. It should be institutionalized.

I haven’t even started allocating accountability to county or state officials. But after six days, I’ve grown weary of the deflections, the self-pity, and the contempt for legitimate questions from the media and the public. This isn’t about politics. It’s about basic human decency. It's about wanting to know why so many people—so many children—died.

Evasion and hostility aren’t damage control. They’re accelerants. We shouldn't still be asking for answers. We should be demanding them. Not just for the sake of accountability, but out of respect for Aidan Heartfield, Chloe Childress, Jane Ragsdale, Hanna and Rebecca Lawrence, and the many others who lost their lives.

Because the truth is owed—to them, to their families, and in particular, to every parent of a child that isn't coming home. 

Unless you're Texas Fight on this thread. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, PvilleStang said:

So there's a security office at the entrance, and an office listed near the rec hall.  I'm curious if the security officer was stationed at the gate (off to the left of this map) or at the office itself.  If he was at the gate, by the time he saw anything, the cabins were maybe 15-30 seconds from being hit by the water.  If he was in the office labeled in the pic below, he would have been at higher elevation than the campers and futher offset from them, and again, even less heads up for the impending wall of water.  Unless he was listening actively to the weather radio, they were fucked.  Again, that area is a major cell deadzone, so radio or TV would probably be the best bet for receiving any alerts.

And curious, did the security guard survive, or did he get swept away?

camp-mystic-flood-map-texas-107757863_1671e6.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&w=1024

Even if he couldn't see the river from his vantage point, and remember it was pitch black with limited and weak sources of light so I don't fault him or anyone else for being unable to see the river at that hour, I gather that as the river rises and is gathering muck and debris, it gets much louder. Security dude should know what does and doesn't sound like a normal evening.

Posted
4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes, Mystic seems to be an unusually vulnerable area.

Was the South Fork more seriously flooded than North Fork?  It seems so, several of the other camps are on the North Fork.  

We've heard some stuff about La Junta and Mystic, but Heart o The Hills is between them and have heard nothing, that I am aware of.  It's also on the north bank of the river.

Seems like the North Fork was worse...

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/projects/2025/texas-guadalupe-flood-ai-data-map/

As for Heart o The Hills... https://www.fox7austin.com/news/texas-flooding-heart-o-the-hills-jane-ragsdale

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes, Mystic seems to be an unusually vulnerable area.

Was the South Fork more seriously flooded than North Fork?  It seems so, several of the other camps are on the North Fork.  

We've heard some stuff about La Junta and Mystic, but Heart o The Hills is between them and have heard nothing, that I am aware of.  It's also on the north bank of the river.

Heart o the Hills was not in session. However, Jane Ragsdale died  (the director) in the flood. My friends and cousins have heard many heroic stories from Mystic and La Junta (a miracle there no lives were lost.) La Junta stories (some of which have been made public) I am sure that will be shared in the coming days. 
 

People talk about resilience and the kindness of strangers and all of us coming together…and that is a wonderful thing…but this has left a huge hole in the heart of our state and in many of our hearts. 

Edited by Nicole44
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Posted
4 hours ago, Skipper said:

One of my best friend's daughter was at the camp when this happened and is safe and I've talked to him about it this week.  His wife went to camp there, was a counselor etc.  as were other family members.  They are also close to the family.  But from what I gather the dad's that are not as attached emotionally to the camp and able to look at this a little more objectively are pretty incensed at the situation and don't think it's going to go well once litigators dive into all of this.  He sent me a breakdown of projected revenue based on what they pay + number of camps and sessions, etc.   There was certainly plenty of profit available to improve safety and risk management and there is certainly a view in hindsight that it was lacking.  I'll probably hear more once we're able to grab a beer and discuss in more detail, but just throwing out there to say that criticism started to grow is not limited to those of us reading about it all on the internet.  There are some very connected people that lost kids or grandkids that I doubt just write this off as a tragedy that couldn't have been prevented.

Natural disasters have a very long tail. So much information is going to come out over the next 6 months to a year. I hope we're all still engaged over the next few years because people like your friends need answers, and they might not come quickly.

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Posted
6 hours ago, Saint Tacky said:

SIAP. It took me a bit, but I believe the time lapse video we’ve all seen by now was shot simultaneously with the video above, from the other side of the river. 

Time Lapse of Flood

psa: the reddit video was taken at this location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/qY8y72cXMfbmbUHu5

the timelapse video was taken here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/jT183eKSBydAGbWi6

it's the llano river crossing of RM3404 in kingsland 70ish miles northeast of the guadalupe

Posted
3 hours ago, PvilleStang said:

Dad called kids while floating away and left voicemails.  Son was able to log in and see all his text messages, and the alerts for the RV park flooding didn't come in until he was already gone.

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/i-think-is-it-dad-leaves-goodbye-voicemail-kids-before-being-swept-away-texas-flood

p-lori-lewisville-couple-killed-in-ctx-floods-6p_00.01.31.34.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

I knew this couple fairly well.  Tanya was extremely sweet and had just beat breast cancer in the last year.  Jeff was a super nice and interesting individual.  He was in amazing shape for a 62 year old and volunteered at a gym for amputees.  Extremely sad situation.

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Posted

Just drove down the street to the Crane's Mill Marina entrance.  There's a park right across the street where one can go and view the Guadalupe snaking its way into Canyon Lake.  I was going to have a look on my way home from the grocery store and this is what I ran into...

IMG_7106.jpeg

IMG_7105.jpeg

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Posted
2 hours ago, Bill Brasky said:

Ford F250 (the vehicle, not the poster here) buried in rock and sand:

 

May be an image of 4 people

 

2 hours ago, freyguy said:

No telling how many people are buried under all that throughout the area.

Beat me to it. 

Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Captainant said:

 I would like to know if the ball was dropped or if everything went to plan. 

Both could be true.

Edited by PTINS
new info
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Posted
7 minutes ago, PTINS said:

Both could be true. The ball was dropped and everything went to plan ( which was very poor at best).

I don't think sirens in Kerrville would have saved one life at Camp Mystic. A siren at Camp Mystic would have saved lives. 

Every few years, there is a catastrophic flood in the Hill Country.  Every river has flooded. It has always been that way. It will always be that way.

Most of the people that live in the country know that, and respect that.  And they don't need a siren to raise their awareness, they get it every time it rains. They play by the water, but they don't build their houses next to it.

The people that visit and vacation either don't know, don't care, don't ask, or don't take the personal responsibility to satisfy themselves that they are not putting themselves, or their loved ones, in danger.

These are the same parents that slow down to drop their kids off for a ball game, and are late in picking them up, without ever seeing any portion of the game. 

Camp Mystic is ~ 18 river miles from Kerrville. Not 18 miles on State Highway 130 at 80 MPH, but 18 miles on a series of winding and narrow roads, through the heart of the Hill Country.

It is highly unlikely any city services in Kerrville have anything to do w/ an unincorporated area of the county 18 miles away. The Kerr County Sheriff, yes. The Kerr County Constable, yes. The Department of Public Safety, yes. Texas Parks & Wildlife, yes. The State of Texas, yes.  The sum total of all those Governmental resources available within a 1 hour response time is marginally better than zero. That is the support system people relied on. 

"...disbelief/anger at the level of negligence involved at all levels including ..." the parents of the campers, perhaps?

I think the idea is you need flood sirens in places along the river where people congregate and camp, not "downtown" Kerrville. That's near the summer camps, the RV parks, etc.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, PTINS said:

 

"...disbelief/anger at the level of negligence involved at all levels including ..." the parents of the campers, perhaps?

Did you just...

No, I must have misread.  You didn't just try to shift blame onto the parents for Kerr County and the camp's fuckup.  Right? 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, PTINS said:

Both could be true. The ball was dropped and everything went to plan ( which was very poor at best).

I don't think sirens in Kerrville would have saved one life at Camp Mystic. A siren at Camp Mystic would have saved lives. 

* * * *
Camp Mystic is ~ 18 river miles from Kerrville. Not 18 miles on State Highway 130 at 80 MPH, but 18 miles on a series of winding and narrow roads, through the heart of the Hill Country.

It is highly unlikely any city services in Kerrville have anything to do w/ an unincorporated area of the county 18 miles away. The Kerr County Sheriff, yes. The Kerr County Constable, yes. The Department of Public Safety, yes. Texas Parks & Wildlife, yes. The State of Texas, yes.  The sum total of all those Governmental resources available within a 1 hour response time is marginally better than zero. That is the support system people relied on. 

Yes we understand that the City of Kerrville doesn't have responsibility for unincorporated Kerr County, but much of the discussion here surrounds KERR COUNTY refusing federal funds and choosing not to install sirens or otherwise updating warning beyond perhaps beepers that were used 30+ years ago.  

Quote

The people that visit and vacation either don't know, don't care, don't ask, or don't take the personal responsibility to satisfy themselves that they are not putting themselves, or their loved ones, in danger.

Disagree with your point about not taking personal responsibility or that visitors and vacationers don't care.  Also, it's funny (odd, not humorous) you mention this.  The Kerr County commissioners decided they didn't need sirens because they only cared about the locals (at least there is some indication of this in meeting minutes that have been posted on this board that they concluded locals didn't need sirens and the sirens would only warn tourists).  

Quote

These are the same parents that slow down to drop their kids off for a ball game, and are late in picking them up, without ever seeing any portion of the game. 

"...disbelief/anger at the level of negligence involved at all levels including ..." the parents of the campers, perhaps?

Wow.  That's certainly a take.

@PTINS Are you familiar with the legal doctrine of in loco parentis?

Edited by DDD Dad
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Posted
3 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Wow.  That's certainly a take.

That’s like blaming the parent for sending their kid to school bc they got hurt or died in a school shooting. It’s just another to deflect blame away from their chosen political party officials who fucked up royally 

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Did you just...

No, I must have misread.  You didn't just try to shift blame onto the parents for Kerr County and the camp's fuckup.  Right? 

Well, at least he hasn’t blamed the little girls yet for lack of personal responsibility 

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Posted
3 hours ago, sunset87 said:

 

My daughter was a Mystic camper several years ago and stayed in one of the cabins (Bumble Inn) that lost all of the girls and counselors.  If you look at the map showing the location of the cabins (white outline), the two furthest to the northwest are Bumble Inn and I think the other is Twins I and II.  The rest of the cabins are in a line running northeast to southwest.  Those cabins are right up against a large hill (dark gray color). So, I am thinking the girls in those cabins were able to get out the back windows and immediately climb up hill to safety.  Where as the cabins further away from the hill (Bumble Inn, Twins I and II, others?) had no where to escape and were quickly surrounded by water.  I have not heard what other cabins besides Bumble Inn took the most losses, but I think I read somewhere that Twins was one of the ones Dick Eastland was trying to evacuate when he was swept away with girls in his vehicle.

It's absolutely no excuse but unfortunately I would guess the second quote (Hook's) might be pretty accurate.  The Eastlands and previous family members have owned this camp for close to 100 years, obviously they had never seen anything of this magnitude.

I mentioned in a post earlier in this thread, that all the facilities (dining hall, infirmary, activities building, etc..) are all down below in the "flats" area of the camp where the younger girls cabins are located.  And the older campers are on Senior Hill which is a bit of steep hike for the younger girls and is more suited for the older campers.  So I'm fairly certain proximity to facilities and ease of access are the main reason for why the young girls were located in the flats.

One other thing I noticed, the valley the river runs in, along the camp "pinches in" against the large hill to the southeast, on the far east side of the camp area, creating a kind of funnel.  With the amount of water in this flood, I am betting that narrowing might have caused the flood water to back up and rise even higher than the max river crest.

In a sick twist of irony the name of the infirmary building is "Heaven Can Wait".

This whole thing is just shattering. I have met some of the people who were lost and one of my nieces friends lost her daughter who was at Camp Mystic and has not been recovered to date.

 

Stop with this shit. “My guess” is hilariously wrong. I don’t want to get in a pissing match and I don’t want to tell the story now but my daughter was there and I just spent the following 4 days out there with about a dozen of the other campers of all ages/cabins. 

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Posted
31 minutes ago, texastough said:

Stop with this shit. “My guess” is hilariously wrong. I don’t want to get in a pissing match and I don’t want to tell the story now but my daughter was there and I just spent the following 4 days out there with about a dozen of the other campers of all ages/cabins. 

I certainly don't either.  I was attempting to come up with an explanation as to why certain cabins were hit so hard, based on what I remember about the camp. Should have have just kept that to myself.  You obviously have first hand information. So apologize that I misspoke about the reality of the situation, and, just sorry your family has been thrust into this horrible event. 

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Posted
7 hours ago, DaysOff said:

The death toll from this incident will exceed that of any jumbo jet crash. Yes, questions and data need to be asked and collected immediately while it's fresh.

This is the correct analogy. Plane crashes, as well as catastrophic surgical events, are almost never the result of one event. They are caused by a perfect storm of errors and failures on multiple fronts and by multiple people, where a timely intervention in only one of the complex sequence of events could have averted the disaster. More important than placing blame is finding out how to keep this from ever happening again, but unfortunately, we are in a political environment where the Prime directive is never apologize and never admit fault. 
 

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, texastough said:

Stop with this shit. “My guess” is hilariously wrong. I don’t want to get in a pissing match and I don’t want to tell the story now but my daughter was there and I just spent the following 4 days out there with about a dozen of the other campers of all ages/cabins. 

Im curious to hear your opinion when you are ready. From my few conversations, it seems that the dads want to wipe the camp off of the face of earth but the moms are not quite there. Too much of an emotional tie to the place.

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Posted
This is the correct analogy. Plane crashes, as well as catastrophic surgical events, are almost never the result of one event. They are caused by a perfect storm of errors and failures on multiple fronts and by multiple people, where a timely intervention in only one of the complex sequence of events could have averted the disaster. More important than placing blame is finding out how to keep this from ever happening again, but unfortunately, we are in a political environment where the Prime directive is never apologize and never admit fault. 
 
 

Excellent summary of how and why it matters…and how we’re totally fucked.
Posted
3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

This is the correct analogy. Plane crashes, as well as catastrophic surgical events, are almost never the result of one event. They are caused by a perfect storm of errors and failures on multiple fronts and by multiple people, where a timely intervention in only one of the complex sequence of events could have averted the disaster. More important than placing blame is finding out how to keep this from ever happening again, but unfortunately, we are in a political environment where the Prime directive is never apologize and never admit fault. 
 

 

For a plane crash, all of the info is in the black box. That’s why they are so desperate to always find it. The black box for this event will be in the logs, recorded audio, alerts, depositions, texts, emails, dispatches, phone records, etc… 

Posted
48 minutes ago, Texas Fight said:

Im curious to hear your opinion when you are ready. From my few conversations, it seems that the dads want to wipe the camp off of the face of earth but the moms are not quite there. Too much of an emotional tie to the place.

no. The camp is haunted. It should become a memorial

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Posted

Sirens are a last line of defense. There were a myriad of actions that would have saved lives, at the camps and parks, before sirens would have been needed. Utter failure of government, from top to bottom. Still, sirens are needed. Obviously.

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Posted
Just now, Willfully Horn said:

Sirens are a last line of defense. There were a myriad of actions that would have saved lives, at the camps and parks, before sirens would have been needed. Utter failure of government, from top to bottom. Still, sirens are needed. Obviously.

Exactly. And I know it’s been mentioned but most of these camp directors are older. Their kids or other family didn’t want to take over as directors. Many wanted them to sell the land as property values outpaced their camper profits. Waldemar held tons of corporate events as well in the offseason and other things. I think the older age of these current camp directors were a contributing factor as to why nothing changed (like the camp upper river earns the next camp and so on phone tree they’d been used to) Dick Eastland was 71 I think, I am not saying that’s ancient at all or that it absolved him of any responsibility but he and Tweety probably weren’t as vigilant as they would have been. Just thoughts in my head.

💔💔

Posted
6 hours ago, Bill Brasky said:

yeah, I'm afraid there are going to be so many people that are never found, until the next big flood washes away the sand and stone to reveal what is left 

Yep, the first thing I thought of when the missing list began to grow was Wimberley and not ever recovering all of the bodies.

Just one has been recovered in the last 24 - 48 hours. You can only cover so much ground or dig so deep. It's hard to think about how many bodies will never be recovered. No closure that will just shatter the families even more. 

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