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Posted
1 minute ago, Ted Lange said:

It’s a near miracle the only one lost was the young boy.  

It is. 💔💔💔

 

I cannot wrap my head around any of this honestly. My heart just aches. Like a physical ache and i didn’t lose a loved one or a child.  If only we could all rally around each other 90 plus % of the time as we do in great tragedies. My older cousin’s sorority sister lost her 8 year old at Mystic in the flood. Right now I am told she is sleeping in her daughter’s room. I cannot fathom any of this. I can only offer what I can to help. My younger cousin’s best friend is Greta’s aunt. The stories I am hearing are things none of us seek out to hear. God bless them all. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Ricky Butler said:

I wouldn't grace his ridiculous statement with a response.

Now that I've cooled down, its true that there are a sprinkling of kids at these summer camps that come from extreme privilege, but for the vast majority it is a generational tradition and is filled with ranch girls and others from self-made, pillar-of-the-community families

Edited by texastough
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Posted
36 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

It is. 💔💔💔

 

I cannot wrap my head around any of this honestly. My heart just aches. Like a physical ache and i didn’t lose a loved one or a child.  If only we could all rally around each other 90 plus % of the time as we do in great tragedies. My older cousin’s sorority sister lost her 8 year old at Mystic in the flood. Right now I am told she is sleeping in her daughter’s room. I cannot fathom any of this. I can only offer what I can to help. My younger cousin’s best friend is Greta’s aunt. The stories I am hearing are things none of us seek out to hear. God bless them all. 

You sure do post a lot about how this is affecting you (via 3-4 Kevin Bacon steps).  I could understand generalized heartache for a tragedy like this (dead kids is about as bad as it gets), but you seem to really, REALLY want to personally attach yourself to it via your cousin's friend's kid and your other cousin's friend's niece.  I don't think I've seen a post of yours yet (many of them in multiple threads) where you don't somehow make it about you via them.  It's the internet, so you can do whatever you want, I guess.  But it's pretty off-putting, to be quite honest.

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Posted
1 minute ago, hookemATL said:

We don’t need more bodies in the water rn. Ignore frey and run. 

Don't worry.  Attention-seeking behavior and vicarious trauma by proxy™️ are immediate deal-breakers.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Hondo said:

Don't worry.  Attention-seeking behavior and vicarious trauma by proxy™️ are immediate deal-breakers.

Well, to one degree or another, anyone who posts here is engaged in attention-seeking behavior.

Very little any of us have to say is really that important to anyone except us.

Nicole seems to be a very empathic person, generally speaking.

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Posted
4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, to one degree or another, anyone who posts here is engaged in attention-seeking behavior.

Very little any of us have to say is really that important to anyone except us.

Nicole seems to be a very empathic person, generally speaking.

Aside from all the murders.

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Posted
6 hours ago, Pancho said:

That was heartbreaking

Texas Monthly has some great coverage of this and has brought back some articles from the past on flooding and Hill Country camp culture.

 

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Posted
6 hours ago, Pancho said:

That was heartbreaking

Yeah it was. Fuck. Even with water against the sliding glass door of what's essentially their 2nd story and coming up through the floor of their pillared house, it clearly didn't dawn on them that they were minutes away from swimming. Otherwise, they obviously would have assigned one of the men to each of the kids, just in case. But how can you possibly begin to grasp that your house will be floating soon in real time?

Posted

Clay went to the PreK program here in Austin that mine went to.

This was a newer house on stilts that took it out of the 100 year flood. If it got swept away then it’s hard for me to place much blame on placement of the mystic cabins. It was truly a tragic freak event that would have been so hard to plan for. Alarm system, other warming tools sure, but still just unfathomable.
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Posted
1 minute ago, ZB'Tejas said:


Clay went to the PreK program here in Austin that mine went to.

This was a newer house on stilts that took it out of the 100 year flood. If it got swept away then it’s hard for me to place much blame on placement of the mystic cabins. It was truly a tragic freak event that would have been so hard to plan for. Alarm system, other warming tools sure, but still just unfathomable.

Yeah, I dunno.  I mean, like a lake house, being close to the water is kinda part and parcel of the whole deal.  Seems like a calculated risk.  I think there's definitely an acknowledgement of the possibilty of property damage, but loss of life is unfathomable.

From one of the graphics, though, the Mystic cabins in question were fewer than 100 yards from the water.  Some of the La Junta stories talk about 300 yards from the water.

Then again, my cabin at Longhorn was probably 50-100 feet from the water's edge, and many are actually ON the water, but it is pointed out that Inks is a pretty low flood risk and probably not a flowing flood.

Sidenote, I participated in Texas camp culture as did a lot of my peers, then and now.  I don't think of myself or my peers as extremely privileged in the sense of the Hunts.  And, I don't think of summer camp as some huge indulgence.  But it costs, and it costs something that a whole lot of folks can't or shouldn't afford.

Like many/most of us here, we're upper 5-10% of American society, we're pretty damned privileged if not extremely so.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, I don't think of summer camp as some huge indulgence.

It’s $7200 for the 4 week season at La Junta, and that’s before the trunk, getting there, $150 at the camp store, paying for photos, etc.  From what I’ve seen, Mystic and Waldemar are a little more.  
 

So about $15k for two kids-that’s a month traveling abroad on a family vacation to pretty much anywhere else in the world.  

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Posted
1 minute ago, LCHorn said:

It’s $7200 for the 4 week season at La Junta, and that’s before the trunk, getting there, $150 at the camp store, paying for photos, etc.  From what I’ve seen, Mystic and Waldemar are a little more.  
 

So about $15k for two kids-that’s a month traveling abroad on a family vacation to pretty much anywhere else in the world.  

Uh yeah. A little bit of class blindness to call $7200 per kid “not a huge indulgence”

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Posted
2 minutes ago, LonghornSean said:

Was I correct in reading that the bubble inn and twins cabins are still intact, they were just totally inundated during the flooding? I think I saw a mystic mom saying that on instagram.

There are photos of what apparently are some of those cabins, if not those in particular with high water marks at 6-8 feet.  Seems like leaving the cabin, if that's what happened, might have been a mistake.

Posted

Apparently Eastland was actively trying to work for solutions on the Guadalupe while possibly ignoring the risk to his own camp.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/11/us/camp-mystic-owner-warnings-texas-flooding-invs?Date=20250711&Profile=CNN&utm_content=1752231100&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkedin

 

Quote

Eastland, who at the time was serving on the board of the Upper Guadalupe River Authority, which manages the river, pushed for a new flood warning system. In newspaper articles, he described a computer-powered system that would lead to automatic alerts if water levels on the Guadalupe rose beyond a set limit.

The proposal was delayed, but officials eventually created a system of 21 gauges up and down the Guadalupe and its tributaries.

Even as Eastland voiced pride in the new system, he was quick to remind the public of the Guadalupe’s deadly power.

“I’m sure there will be other drownings,” Eastland said in a 1990 interview with the Austin American-Statesman. “People don’t heed the warnings.”

 

Posted
Just now, texasdago said:

Apparently Eastland was actively trying to work for solutions on the Guadalupe while possibly ignoring the risk to his own camp.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/11/us/camp-mystic-owner-warnings-texas-flooding-invs?Date=20250711&Profile=CNN&utm_content=1752231100&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkedin

 

 

Unlike some of the camps, Mystic has been under the ownership of one family for nearly its entire 100 year existence.  So, I guess 60-70 years of actual observation of the floods and the property in question breeds a degree of complacency or arrogance.

Posted
24 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Uh yeah. A little bit of class blindness to call $7200 per kid “not a huge indulgence”

That's, at most, 10 hours of billing clients for surfing this site for most Surly lawyers.

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Posted
17 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Unlike some of the camps, Mystic has been under the ownership of one family for nearly its entire 100 year existence.  So, I guess 60-70 years of actual observation of the floods and the property in question breeds a degree of complacency or arrogance.

Seems like that is the case for most/all of the people on this river last week. The Texas Monthly article about the family who lost the toddler is another example. 

Posted
27 minutes ago, LonghornSean said:

Was I correct in reading that the bubble inn and twins cabins are still intact, they were just totally inundated during the flooding? I think I saw a mystic mom saying that on instagram.

From what I've seen from the air, the junior cabins are still there.

I'll have to go through the raw video I have, but one of the other camps has a bunch of bare slabs.  Wiped clean, and not from cleanup crews.

 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Texas Fight said:

Seems like that is the case for most/all of the people on this river last week. The Texas Monthly article about the family who lost the toddler is another example. 

Well, hardly any of them have that many years of actual experience with the river and the property.

Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Hondo said:

From what I've seen from the air, the junior cabins are still there.

I'll have to go through the raw video I have, but one of the other camps has a bunch of bare slabs.  Wiped clean, and not from cleanup crews.

 

Seems like that was LaJunta.

Pretty substantial cabins, too.

clj-facility-building-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&i

And quite distant from the river, relatively speaking. I wonder if that footage is some other buildings.

Our Facilities - Camp La Junta

Edited by TwiceHorn
Posted
8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Seems like that was LaJunta.

Pretty substantial cabins, too.

clj-facility-building-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&i

And quite distant from the river, relatively speaking. I wonder if that footage is some other buildings.

Our Facilities - Camp La Junta

Yeah, I have some footage of La Junta and it's certainly bad, but I'm thinking of another.  

It may not have been one of the camps; perhaps a resort of some kind.  Definitely laid out like a camp/resort though...central building/amenities/pool, houses/cabins (or used to be) in rows off to the side.  

Off the top of my head, the slabs were perpendicular to the riverbed.  Could have been a street with private homes.  Whatever it was, it's not there anymore.

I'll look later and see if I can overlay with map data.

Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Uh yeah. A little bit of class blindness to call $7200 per kid “not a huge indulgence”

if you translate that to late 80's or early 90's dollars that is like 5 years worth of family vacations for my redneck clan 

Posted
11 hours ago, APMP said:

That's the family of long time UT law prof. Alex Albright. I had heard through family that she lost a grandchild. Just heartbreaking.

Yes, I’m separately friends with her son. Glad she apparently wasn’t there that day.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, LCHorn said:

It’s $7200 for the 4 week season at La Junta, and that’s before the trunk, getting there, $150 at the camp store, paying for photos, etc.  From what I’ve seen, Mystic and Waldemar are a little more.  
 

So about $15k for two kids-that’s a month traveling abroad on a family vacation to pretty much anywhere else in the world.  

Then it gets real expensive when you get all kids in camp at the same time and take a Euro vacation yourself. About a $25K month.

I'm trying not to be too insensitive but I'd also like to know whether I'm going to get my tuition back from Mystic. And if there will not be a camp next year (which is probably not likely) if I need to be getting on new lists because these waiting lists are long. Although there is still a lot of processing to be done for my kids my daughter is very sad thinking she might not be going back to summer camp for some time.

Edited by ZB'Tejas
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Posted
15 minutes ago, ZB'Tejas said:

I'm trying not to be too insensitive but I'd also like to know whether I'm going to get my tuition back from Mystic. And if there will not be a camp next year (which is probably not likely) if I need to be getting on new lists because these waiting lists are long.

 

Well, you failed. 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, ZB'Tejas said:

Then it gets real expensive when you get all kids in camp at the same time and take a Euro vacation yourself. About a $25K month.

I'm trying not to be too insensitive but I'd also like to know whether I'm going to get my tuition back from Mystic. And if there will not be a camp next year (which is probably not likely) if I need to be getting on new lists because these waiting lists are long. Although there is still a lot of processing to be done for my kids my daughter is very sad thinking she might not be going back to summer camp for some time.

jesus christ

 

edit: i had a hot air balloon trip booked with this company for the following weekend.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Lockhart_hot_air_balloon_crash . i was smart enough to not bitch about my deposit.

Edited by BehoId, The Underminer!
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Posted
22 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Everytime I returned home from camp, my mom had a new car in the driveway and my dad appeared sexually sated. #campeconomics

Gangbang parties are expensive, or so I heard.

Posted
1 hour ago, Hondo said:

Yeah, I have some footage of La Junta and it's certainly bad, but I'm thinking of another.  

It may not have been one of the camps; perhaps a resort of some kind.  Definitely laid out like a camp/resort though...central building/amenities/pool, houses/cabins (or used to be) in rows off to the side.  

Off the top of my head, the slabs were perpendicular to the riverbed.  Could have been a street with private homes.  Whatever it was, it's not there anymore.

I'll look later and see if I can overlay with map data.

I think Heart of the Hills got wiped out.  

Posted
12 hours ago, APMP said:

That's the family of long time UT law prof. Alex Albright. I had heard through family that she lost a grandchild. Just heartbreaking.

“Grandma Alex” as she’s referenced in the article. She was my law professor for two courses and I was her research assistant my third year. I saw her post of that story on her Facebook feed this morning. My eyes started watering as I was reading it outside of a courtroom before a hearing.

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Posted
3 hours ago, LCHorn said:

It’s $7200 for the 4 week season at La Junta, and that’s before the trunk, getting there, $150 at the camp store, paying for photos, etc.  From what I’ve seen, Mystic and Waldemar are a little more.  
 

So about $15k for two kids-that’s a month traveling abroad on a family vacation to pretty much anywhere else in the world.  

Both of my kids went to Camp Ozark west of Hot Springs. I just looked and Ozark has gotten substantially more expensive than I remember. Website says $4595 for 2-week sessions. I recall it being closer to $3000-$3500 per kid for two weeks, basically $200-$250 per kid per day.

 

3 hours ago, LonghornSean said:

Was I correct in reading that the bubble inn and twins cabins are still intact, they were just totally inundated during the flooding? I think I saw a mystic mom saying that on instagram.

I've stopped paying super close attention once we learned the fate of my friend's daughter but I think two Mystic cabins were completely washed away.

 

1 hour ago, ZB'Tejas said:

Then it gets real expensive when you get all kids in camp at the same time and take a Euro vacation yourself. About a $25K month.

I'm trying not to be too insensitive but I'd also like to know whether I'm going to get my tuition back from Mystic. And if there will not be a camp next year (which is probably not likely) if I need to be getting on new lists because these waiting lists are long. Although there is still a lot of processing to be done for my kids my daughter is very sad thinking she might not be going back to summer camp for some time.

Valid question but maybe not for today, or even next week. Personally, if camp is that important I would put her name on the list for other camps immediately.

Posted
8 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I've stopped paying super close attention once we learned the fate of my friend's daughter but I think two Mystic cabins were completely washed away.

Looked into it a bit more and from some post-event satellite images, looks like the cabins are still there. (believe Bubble inn is the one closest to the fork in the road)
 

IMG_8813.thumb.jpeg.6fad4f3cb908e0e96f52a41c6e3bcff1.jpeg

Posted
42 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Both of my kids went to Camp Ozark west of Hot Springs. I just looked and Ozark has gotten substantially more expensive than I remember. Website says $4595 for 2-week sessions. I recall it being closer to $3000-$3500 per kid for two weeks, basically $200-$250 per kid per day.

Valid question but maybe not for today, or even next week. Personally, if camp is that important I would put her name on the list for other camps immediately.

Yes, but I'd like to be somewhat sure before dropping a ton of non-refundable deposits into various camps.

Camps can be crazy expensive. One that I had been looking at for a bit in NC is $8600 for the four week period! And it's $1000 to just get on the waiting list. 

Posted
12 minutes ago, ZB'Tejas said:

Yes, but I'd like to be somewhat sure before dropping a ton of non-refundable deposits into various camps.

Camps can be crazy expensive. One that I had been looking at for a bit in NC is $8600 for the four week period! And it's $1000 to just get on the waiting list. 

Waldemar is $8500 for 4 weeks. Mystic is similar. 

Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Seems like that was LaJunta.

Pretty substantial cabins, too.

clj-facility-building-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&i

And quite distant from the river, relatively speaking. I wonder if that footage is some other buildings.

Our Facilities - Camp La Junta

To be clear, the elevation proximate to the river is a much bigger issue than the distance to the river.

Google Earth screenshot near Hunt, TX, near the confluence of the North & South Forks of the Guadalupe River.

Screenshot2025-07-11at11_12_33AM.png.c15e715a5aefd3ebd3b47ef1b9eb8eaa.png

The Guadalupe River is at a 1770' Elevations as shown by Yellow Point upstream (south) of Camp La Junta. The orange lines are at a 1791' Elevation, 21 feet above the "normal" S. Guadalupe River level.  I used 21 level as that level is the approximate level that separates Camp La Junta from the surrounding hills to the east (1990' Elevation). This 21' increment is much lower that the rise in river levels that just flooded.

Everything between the orange lines would have been under water at a minimum, including part of Hunt, TX. Note that Highway 39 would have been under water at Hunt, cutting off any access to Kerrville. Realistically, cutting of any access to anything, in or out. 

Screenshot of a wider area. Highway 39 from Hunt runs south and west, ending at Highway 83, 28 miles from Hunt.

Screenshot2025-07-11at11_07_24AM.png.b72a84ce1dee2f293e7d28815db40578.png

Kerrville's population is ~ 24,000; Bandera is less than 3,000 people. Not much else beyond that.

There is not another town between Hunt and Highway 83.  I looked for a ranch out here for 3 years before I bought mine, including the ranch where the Guadalupe River originates, and drove along the river all the way to Kerrville. Nothing but expensive (for me) vacation properties and second homes right on the river. This part of the Hill Country is among the most remote, the least populated, and the most scenic, surrounded by state parks and recreation areas, and private camps.  I can look west across the Sabinal River valley, and not see any sign of civilization, other than radio towers on the horizon.

We watched the 2004 Rose Bowl at a Mr. Gattis in Kerrville, and drove to Utopia via Hunt, past La Junta and Camp Mystic, and Vanderpool. I haven't been on that road since. Probably the most nauseous drive I've ever been on. Nothing but curvy roads going up the hills and down the valleys for 40 miles. 

This is Charlie Wilson's demographic, w/ 10% of the population.

 

Posted (edited)

For whatever reason, I think these camps are a lot more expensive, even inflation adjusted, than they were 20-30 years ago and the waitlists are far more insane.

La Junta recommends you apply at age 2.

Haha I got a letter from a friend of mine at La Junta on camp stationery at about age 12 or 13.

On the return address where "Camp La Junta" was printed, he added "sux dix."

Edited by TwiceHorn
Posted
13 hours ago, Hondo said:

You sure do post a lot about how this is affecting you (via 3-4 Kevin Bacon steps).  I could understand generalized heartache for a tragedy like this (dead kids is about as bad as it gets), but you seem to really, REALLY want to personally attach yourself to it via your cousin's friend's kid and your other cousin's friend's niece.  I don't think I've seen a post of yours yet (many of them in multiple threads) where you don't somehow make it about you via them.  It's the internet, so you can do whatever you want, I guess.  But it's pretty off-putting, to be quite honest.

oar2.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEYCJUDENAFSFqQAgHyq4q

Yeah, there's really nothing to say that hasn't been said.  Either about the horror or culpable parties.  I think for Nicole and maybe others, it's a form of cathartic release.

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