Kansas State hires North Dakota State's Chris Klieman as head coach

[LTtxfan 48823]

Nice find by @texifornia 

Players won't play or practice until K-State puts a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for openly racist actions...

Edited June 27, 2020 by LTtxfan

[LTtxfan 48823]

https://247sports.com/college/kansas-state/Article/Kansas-State-football-team-announces-protest-of-program-K-State-offensive-tweet-Josh-Youngblood-Chris-Klieman-148609553/

Kansas State football team announces protest of program

By.  RILEY GATES 59 minutes ago

Quote

After two individual players began the charge late on Thursday night, the Kansas State football team has officially made a team-wide stance. The Wildcats have stated they will not play or practice football until their demands are met.  Student-athletes at the school began speaking out after a tweet from a K-State student that was described as “disgusting” by athletic director Gene Taylor surfaced online. All-American return man Josh Youngblood and newcomer Tee Denson initially said that they would not represent K-State anymore until change was made at the school. Now, that has spread to the entire team.

In a graphic posted by Youngblood and countless other football players at K-State, the team listed their demands. The players said until a policy is put in place that, “allows a student to be dismissed for displaying openly racist, threatening or disrespectful action toward a student or groups of students,” they will no longer participate in team activities.

“To our family at Kansas State: Due to the recent disparaging, insensitive, and unsettling comments made by a fellow student, we as a football team, after consultation with students from campus organizations, as well as students from the general student body, feel it is best for us to stand with the students,” the statement read. “We are demanding that Kansas State University put a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for displaying openly racist, threatening or disrespectful action toward a student or groups of students.

“We have resolved that we cannot play, practice, or meet until these demands are heard and actions taken. We love Kansas State but we must stand together and protect all students moving forward.”

The official statement by the football team comes a day after student-athletes of all sports made stances on Friday. Players on the women’s basketball team for K-State released a statement on Friday saying that they would not participate in team activities, as well as donor or recruiting events until they saw change at the school. Men’s basketball players DaJuan Gordon and Antonio Gordon also announced they would not play for head coach Bruce Weber’s program until a response was made by the school.

As players were initially making comments about the tweet on Friday morning, head football coach Chris Klieman took to Twitter to back his players. In a tweet, Klieman said that K-State would, “continue to be a part of the solution.”

“Our program and our coaches will continue to be a part of the solution when it comes to racial injustice,” Klieman’s tweet read. “I love our players and they know I have their backs.”

As of the time of publication of this story, no decision on the incident had been announced by K-State. However, the school did say it was launching an immediate review of the university’s options.

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by LTtxfan

[Johnny Sack 8397]

So they want an amendment to the First Amendment so disrespectful or racist speech is no longer protected?

How about the school treat them like adults and tell the players why they don’t condone or endorse the distasteful twitter post, since Kansas State is a public school and state actor, it would be against the law to punish a student for protected speech.  
 

There are exceptions to the first amendment.  This twitter post isn’t within a mile of one.  

[Viper 11992]

The tweet was deleted, anyone know what it said?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8795]

The tweet was deleted, anyone know what it said?

I looked too, believe on June 25 the guy said “ it’s now been a month since George Floyd used drugs”

[Bartles 769]

Quote

“Congratulations to George Floyd on being drug free for an entire month!” wrote Jaden McNeil, a Kansas State student with documented ties to white nationalists and the self-proclaimed founder and president of “America First Students,” a “Student Organization for strong borders, traditional families, the American worker, and Christian values.”

From a very good David Ubben column in The Athletic. The players end up giving this prick way more attention that he could have dreamed. And there is no legal remedy. Probably should have just confronted him in person to get a viral video of him pissing himself.

[Newdoc 3429]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

So they want an amendment to the First Amendment so disrespectful or racist speech is no longer protected?

Cancel culture and mob rule my man. It’s the new America. The coward that posted the drivel should have some sort of repercussions of his stupidity however. He has protected, albeit ignorant, speech under the First Amendment.

Those repercussions should not be decided  by student athletes who hold a university’s football program for ransom.

[Stella Link 534]

16 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Nice find by @texifornia 

Players won't play or practice until K-State puts a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for openly racist actions...

So, if the Kansas State football players aren't going to participate in the games, ok...I'm good with that.  Buh-bye.  Don't forget to write...

So, the topic now shifts to which team do we want to recruit to the Big 12 to replace them. 

 

  

[CurlyDumps 4428]

Do they want Jaden McNeil dismissed? Because the tweet in question doesn’t even meet their criteria for dismissal. 

I mean, doesn’t every school have policies that can get you kicked out for harassing other students?

[David Dennison 18484]

College football players have tremendous power if they remain united and choose to use it.

 

[texifornia 56281]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

So they want an amendment to the First Amendment so disrespectful or racist speech is no longer protected?

How about the school treat them like adults and tell the players why they don’t condone or endorse the distasteful twitter post, since Kansas State is a public school and state actor, it would be against the law to punish a student for protected speech.  
 

There are exceptions to the first amendment.  This twitter post isn’t within a mile of one.  

Just because you can say shitty things doesn't mean you won't face repercussions for doing it. It's the asshole version of yelling fire in a theater.

That said, I actually think this is unreasonable. That kid was a douche, but not to an expellable level.

[Brothahorn 10081]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

College football players have tremendous power if they remain united and choose to use it.

 

Until the money goes away.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

18 minutes ago, texifornia said:

Just because you can say shitty things doesn't mean you won't face repercussions for doing it. It's the asshole version of yelling fire in a theater.

That said, I actually think this is unreasonable. That kid was a douche, but not to an expellable level.

No it's really not akin to yelling fire in a theater.  And the first amendment prevents a state actor from levying repercussions for protected speech.  That's exactly what it does.

There are exceptions to the first amendment speech.  Like true threats.  This distasteful joke made off campus on twitter is not even close to any 1st Amendment exception.

[RomaVicta 29702]

The wording is for rules against displaying openly racist, threatening, or disrespectful actions.

The George Floyd drugs tweet actually doesn't seem to fall under this definition. However, the context of the tweet provided by Bartles (I guess James got the Covid. RIP) from an Ubben article above suggests a context that may fit the definition. No matter, it seems more relevant to discuss the wording of the demand than the wording of the tweet.

Exactly what is "displaying action?" The heart of the demand is in the right place and easy to support. The specifics need to be worked out for clearer discourse. 

The calm and reasoned approach found in the vast majority of POC, primarily black people, during this national consideration continues to impress the hell out of me. It's a true shame that some people want to characterize the entire movement as a criminal riot.

As usual, I find Texifornia's disposition on point. Heels not dug in. Concerned about the clarity of the demand and concerned about its extent. It mirrors the language of the demand. It suggests, "let's talk."

Let's talk about what will unify the people, not make an immediate decision about what someone means and disdain further investigation.

 

[Helobious 9465]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

So they want an amendment to the First Amendment so disrespectful or racist speech is no longer protected?

How about the school treat them like adults and tell the players why they don’t condone or endorse the distasteful twitter post, since Kansas State is a public school and state actor, it would be against the law to punish a student for protected speech.  
 

There are exceptions to the first amendment.  This twitter post isn’t within a mile of one.  

Public universities should be able to kick out students for hate speech, derogatory comments towards another student, etc. College is a privilege, not a right. OU kicked out those 2 frat guys for the racist song a few years ago. The expulsions probably wouldn’t have held up in court, but the racists were smart enough to not fight it. Hardly anyone can remember their names now since they just let it die. But the K-State kid here seems like an attention whore looking to make a name for himself (it’s not at all his first brush with controversy) so it’ll be interesting to see what he does.

[Tex Pete 20120]

3 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I looked too, believe on June 25 the guy said “ it’s now been a month since George Floyd used drugs”

Which is totally my kind of humor. I make jokes like that all the time. I wouldn’t do it in this climate (or about Floyd in particular), and certainly not on Twitter, but I love dark humor. It’s kind of what this site is all about. 

[Valmy77 13086]

57 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

No it's really not akin to yelling fire in a theater.  And the first amendment prevents a state actor from levying repercussions for protected speech.  That's exactly what it does.

There are exceptions to the first amendment speech.  Like true threats.  This distasteful joke made off campus on twitter is not even close to any 1st Amendment exception.

Ok but football players are not state actors, they are not even officially employees of the state. They are prefectly entitled to say whatever they want about about a tweet, they also have first amendment rights to free speech. K-State may not be able to levy repercussions on this kid but the kid will be under pressure from their actions. 

Seems a crazy over-reaction on the players part. But I don't know the context.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Valmy77

[Valmy77 13086]

2 hours ago, Stella Link said:

So, if the Kansas State football players aren't going to participate in the games, ok...I'm good with that.  Buh-bye.  Don't forget to write...

So, the topic now shifts to which team do we want to recruit to the Big 12 to replace them. 

 

  

I don't think we are quite at the point of booting K-State out of the conference just yet.

[Tex Pete 20120]

18 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Public universities should be able to kick out students for hate speech, derogatory comments towards another student, etc. College is a privilege, not a right. OU kicked out those 2 frat guys for the racist song a few years ago. The expulsions probably wouldn’t have held up in court, but the racists were smart enough to not fight it. Hardly anyone can remember their names now since they just let it die. But the K-State kid here seems like an attention whore looking to make a name for himself (it’s not at all his first brush with controversy) so it’ll be interesting to see what he does.

That dude‘s comments were neither hate speech nor derogatory toward another student. Completely insensitive? Absolutely. People need to quit letting others’ words control them. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, Valmy77 said:

Ok but football players are not state actors, they are not even officially employees of the state. They are prefectly entitled to say whatever they want about about a tweet, they also have first amendment rights to free speech. K-State may not be able to levy repercussions on this kid but the kid will be under pressure from their actions. 

Seems a crazy over-reaction on the players part.

Of course the football players can say what they want.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

20 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Public universities should be able to kick out students for hate speech, derogatory comments towards another student, etc. College is a privilege, not a right. OU kicked out those 2 frat guys for the racist song a few years ago. The expulsions probably wouldn’t have held up in court, but the racists were smart enough to not fight it. Hardly anyone can remember their names now since they just let it die. But the K-State kid here seems like an attention whore looking to make a name for himself (it’s not at all his first brush with controversy) so it’ll be interesting to see what he does.

Hate speech is protected by the First Amendment.

And I disagree taxpayer supported entities should be kicking students out for protected speech.

[Helobious 9465]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Hate speech is protected by the First Amendment.

And I disagree taxpayer supported entities should be kicking students out for protected speech.

I simply don’t. To me the 1st amendment means that the government can’t imprison or punish you for something you say. It doesn’t mean there’s no consequences for saying something stupid. K State got less than 20% of their total funding last year from the government. What amount really makes you count as “taxpayer supported”? Over 50%? .01%?  I don’t know.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

7 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I simply don’t. To me the 1st amendment means that the government can’t imprison or punish you for something you say. It doesn’t mean there’s no consequences for saying something stupid. K State got less than 20% of their total funding last year from the government. What amount really makes you count as “taxpayer supported”? Over 50%? .01%?  I don’t know.

The state created the university.  It owns it.  It runs it.  It is a state actor regardless of its current budget and funding.  Would you be okay if the school violated other Constitutional rights of students because taxpayer funding is only 20% of the budget?  Say they expelled women for getting an abortion?  Or kicked out couples who engaged in interracial dating?  Or kicked out women who use birth control or men who use condoms? 

And being expelled is punishment.  The First Amendment prevents state actors from retaliating against individuals for protected speech.  It isn't just limited to protection from being jailed.

[Tex Pete 20120]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

I simply don’t. To me the 1st amendment means that the government can’t imprison or punish you for something you say. It doesn’t mean there’s no consequences for saying something stupid. K State got less than 20% of their total funding last year from the government. What amount really makes you count as “taxpayer supported”? Over 50%? .01%?  I don’t know.

The concept isn’t rally hard. There is no constitutional right not to see/hear things you don’t like. 

[Herpa Derpa 6102]

2 hours ago, Helobious said:

I simply don’t. To me the 1st amendment means that the government can’t imprison or punish you for something you say. It doesn’t mean there’s no consequences for saying something stupid. K State got less than 20% of their total funding last year from the government. What amount really makes you count as “taxpayer supported”? Over 50%? .01%?  I don’t know.

Absolutely irrelevant.

[Helobious 9465]

1 hour ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Absolutely irrelevant.

 I was stating my opinion why I think colleges “should” be able to kick out people for these kinds of things. Not that they can or will, but simply why I think they should. OU already did it with the frat guys in the example I used earlier. It’s also worth noting that all schools have codes of conduct, and if they’re violated it can result in expulsion. Even if the student has broken no criminal laws. I’ve never read K State’s code of conduct, no idea if it would apply to this guy.

[Murfdogg21 4398]

You said your legal opinion of the First Amendment is that the state shouldn’t be able to punish you, then went on to say the state university should expel someone for something they wrote on Twitter. ???

Edited June 28, 2020 by Murfdogg21

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

 I was stating my opinion why I think colleges “should” be able to kick out people for these kinds of things. Not that they can or will, but simply why I think they should. OU already did it with the frat guys in the example I used earlier. It’s also worth noting that all schools have codes of conduct, and if they’re violated it can result in expulsion. Even if the student has broken no criminal laws. I’ve never read K State’s code of conduct, no idea if it would apply to this guy.

I forgot that part of the Constitution where it said, hey these rights we discussed, nevermind ... they don’t fucking apply if a school has a code of conduct.  
 

I guess I was just absent that day in law school, when the University code of conduct exception to the First Amendment was covered.  The whole supremacy clause was just bullshit, I suppose. 

[JFKFC 4878]

There is nothing in the First Amendment about being guaranteed a place in a state university. 

It is a privilege, not a right.

Don't forget:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[HtownHorn 14394]

1 minute ago, JFKFC said:

There is nothing in the First Amendment about being guaranteed a place in a state university. 

It is a privilege, not a right.

Don't forget:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Lulz.

[Neonmoon 38127]

18 minutes ago, JFKFC said:

There is nothing in the First Amendment about being guaranteed a place in a state university. 

It is a privilege, not a right.

Don't forget:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

So many idiots learn about free speech the hard way.

[Jatrain 288]

This isn’t a case of some stupid kid getting drunk and making a dumb tweet. 
 

He’s a alt-right/white nationalist associated with the people behind Charlottesville. His group at Kstate, America First Students, is a trial balloon for the establishment of white nationalists organizations on college campuses. 
 

https://www.irehr.org/2020/02/27/an-affinity-for-bigotry-jaden-mcneil-of-america-first-students/

[Message Board User 12388]

On 6/27/2020 at 5:45 PM, LTtxfan said:

Nice find by @texifornia 

Players won't play or practice until K-State puts a policy in place that allows a student to be dismissed for openly racist actions...

So who gets to decide what is "openly racist, threatening or disrespectful actions"?

[David Dennison 18484]

Kansas State can absolutely institute a policy the players want. They'll get sued, but that shouldn't stop them from designing and implementing a policy designed to restrict speech within the framework set out by the Supreme Court.

[ChiTownDoc 21065]

56 minutes ago, Jatrain said:

This isn’t a case of some stupid kid getting drunk and making a dumb tweet. 
 

He’s a alt-right/white nationalist associated with the people behind Charlottesville. His group at Kstate, America First Students, is a trial balloon for the establishment of white nationalists organizations on college campuses. 
 

https://www.irehr.org/2020/02/27/an-affinity-for-bigotry-jaden-mcneil-of-america-first-students/

Context matters.  If he was just some idiot kid who didn't have any history let him stick around.  He has that type of background and people are questioning kicking his ass out of school?  LOL

[Texaspython 231]

17 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

That dude‘s comments were neither hate speech nor derogatory toward another student. Completely insensitive? Absolutely. People need to quit letting others’ words control them. 

Celebrating a racially motivated murder isn’t hate speech? I suppose that contributes to the “marketplace of ideas” in your world but not mine.

The University can kick the kid out and it’ll be upheld. I hope they do.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Texaspython

[Johnny Sack 8397]

17 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

Celebrating a racially motivated murder isn’t hate speech? I suppose that contributes to the “marketplace of ideas” in your world but not mine.

The University can kick the kid out and it’ll be upheld. I hope they do.

It doesn’t matter whether it is.  It doesn’t matter if he starts up a neo Nazi student group. Racially motivated hate speech is protected speech.  I’d like to see K State kick him out.  Because this kid is just the type ot asshole who wants the publicity and will sue. 

The OU frat students a few years ago were expelled but didn’t sue.  They didn’t want any more attention.  

[Texaspython 231]

14 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

It doesn’t matter whether it is.  It doesn’t matter if he starts up a neo Nazi student group. Racially motivated hate speech is protected speech.  I’d like to see K State kick him out.  Because this kid is just the type ot asshole who wants the publicity and will sue. 

The OU frat students a few years ago were expelled but didn’t sue.  They didn’t want any more attention.  

Violence isn’t protected speech. Using a racial slur is protected.

[Tex Pete 20120]

2 hours ago, Texaspython said:

Celebrating a racially motivated murder isn’t hate speech? I suppose that contributes to the “marketplace of ideas” in your world but not mine.

A. No. 
B. The murder was absolutely disgusting. I have seen nothing whatsoever that indicates it was racially motivated, however. I am interested in finding out the facts. 
C. None of this has anything to do with the marketplace of ideas. What the kid tweeted is reprehensible, but not in any way illegal. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 hours ago, Texaspython said:

Violence isn’t protected speech. Using a racial slur is protected.

Hate speech that isn't threatening anyone is protected speech.

As an American, you can be a member of a hate group.  The government cannot punish you for that association.

We are not Europe.

[BabaYaga 15190]

2 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

A. No. 
B. The murder was absolutely disgusting. I have seen nothing whatsoever that indicates it was racially motivated, however. I am interested in finding out the facts. 
C. None of this has anything to do with the marketplace of ideas. What the kid tweeted is reprehensible, but not in any way illegal. 

To unpack this further, they did know one another and worked together.  Rumors were this cop was a giant ass to customers as well and Floyd called him out on it repeatedly.  If true, then not only is it not racially motivated, but you CAN argue for some measure of prejudice and malice.  

[HeyMcFly 144]

4 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

It doesn’t matter whether it is.  It doesn’t matter if he starts up a neo Nazi student group. Racially motivated hate speech is protected speech.  I’d like to see K State kick him out.  Because this kid is just the type ot asshole who wants the publicity and will sue. 

The OU frat students a few years ago were expelled but didn’t sue.  They didn’t want any more attention.  

Not to get too offtopic but didnt one end up graduating from UT?

[BabaYaga 15190]

20 minutes ago, HeyMcFly said:

Not to get too offtopic but didnt one end up graduating from UT?

Hopefully he learned from this mistake and turned things around.  Which is what bothers me so much about this cancel culture - no road to redemption.  Ever.  Many of these are just kids doing stupid shit.  At the perfect age to sit down with the aggrieved and listen to them.  Understand why this is so offensive.  Create allies, not enemies.  Do it offline.  No circus.  No social or conventional media.  

[nnm 35898]

Let’s get the KSU players together with aggy players, to teach the aggy players to issue a similar unified note that they will not practice or play until Sully is removed. 

[Not a cat 5601]

11 hours ago, HeyMcFly said:

Not to get too offtopic but didnt one end up graduating from UT?

Wait, kid got kicked out of OU and ended up with a UT degree instead?  I guess they showed him.

[HeyMcFly 144]

9 hours ago, Not a cat said:

Wait, kid got kicked out of OU and ended up with a UT degree instead?  I guess they showed him.

Yup one went to UTD and one went to UT

[Texaspython 231]

21 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Hate speech that isn't threatening anyone is protected speech.

As an American, you can be a member of a hate group.  The government cannot punish you for that association.

We are not Europe.

Which is why you can’t go to the West Mall and yell “Die N’s, Die N’s”. This is the functional equivalent of that. Racists talk in coded language and that’s what a kid like this was doing. He can absolutely get kicked off campus and should. No Constitutional challenge will suffice.

[HeyMcFly 144]

20 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Hopefully he learned from this mistake and turned things around.  Which is what bothers me so much about this cancel culture - no road to redemption.  Ever.  Many of these are just kids doing stupid shit.  At the perfect age to sit down with the aggrieved and listen to them.  Understand why this is so offensive.  Create allies, not enemies.  Do it offline.  No circus.  No social or conventional media.  

I def agree with everything you mentioned about cancel culture except the "kids doing stupid shit"... they were grown men. It seemed like they might have learned and grew from this...it appears they were given second chances based on their linkedin pages.

[BabaYaga 15190]

7 minutes ago, HeyMcFly said:

I def agree with everything you mentioned about cancel culture except the "kids doing stupid shit"... they were grown men. It seemed like they might have learned and grew from this...it appears they were given second chances based on their linkedin pages.

Which is good.  There need's to be a road to redemption.  It's too simplistic and intellectually lazy to just root out something and brand that person for the rest of their days.  You want change?  Real change?  Start with one person.  Get them to change.  

EX.  Daryl Davis (as seen on the JRE).  Musician and blues player that personally "converted" more than 200 klansmen and former Nazis.  Just by talking to them.  Getting to know them, an visa versa.  It's a matter of time and effort.  Something in short supply these days.  

[Js1 84994]

21 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Hopefully he learned from this mistake and turned things around.  Which is what bothers me so much about this cancel culture - no road to redemption.  Ever.  Many of these are just kids doing stupid shit.  At the perfect age to sit down with the aggrieved and listen to them.  Understand why this is so offensive.  Create allies, not enemies.  Do it offline.  No circus.  No social or conventional media.  

They aren't kids.  They can go to war and die for this country.   Stop calling young black men "thugs" and young men white saying racist things "kids."  

We all know exactly what you mean.