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Donald Trump 2019


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2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I've said it before, and maybe it's grounds for a separate thread, but how do Trump's actions not constitute treason?

I'm not one to throw the word around lightly, and I think its power is diminished when that happens (e.g., "TRUMP IS A TRAITOR BECAUSE OF HIS USE OF OFFICE FOR PERSONAL GAIN!!!").  But when we consider the REAL meaning of "treason", it pretty much comes down to giving and comfort to an enemy of the United States. 

ISIS (ISIL) is without question an enemy of the United States.  We were in conflict with them as late as March of this year.  Trump took action that directly led to their escape from confinement following capture, which was a known, likely outcome of that action.  Seems pretty treason-y to me.

Yes.  It’s treason.  I’m not joking when I post he should be tried, then hung if guilty.  I have no idea why he gets a pass on this.  Are we too sensitive to discuss these things?

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15 minutes ago, SameSame said:

I guarantee you he has never set foot in a grocery store in his life.

That would be a nice question to ask during a debate.... something like:

“President Trump, how much is a gallon of milk?”

I wonder what his response would be ... actually he’d probably just say “ I never had to buy any because I have people for that because I’m a rich stable genius” or something.

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1 minute ago, Dnaguy said:

That would be a nice question to ask during a debate.... something like:

“President Trump, how much is a gallon of milk?”

I wonder what his response would be ... actually he’d probably just say “ I never had to buy any because I have people for that because I’m a rich stable genius” or something.

"I buy and sell hotels, not milk."  

You'd get something equally dismissive, disdainful and misleading such as that.

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16 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Yes.  It’s treason.  I’m not joking when I post he should be tried, then hung if guilty.  I have no idea why he gets a pass on this.  Are we too sensitive to discuss these things?

Wanna bet we could actually talk him into this?

"President Trump, we know how to get everyone in the country talking about how well hung you were..."

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2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

He likes Chairman Kim so much, we can let that asshole choose the method.  

Starving him to death or putting him downrange for mortar practice probably would probably get struck down by the Supreme Court.  I’m fine with a good ole fashioned hanging, as long as they make the drop short enough that his neck doesn’t break instantly.

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35 minutes ago, SameSame said:

I guarantee you he has never set foot in a grocery store in his life.

 

17 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

That would be a nice question to ask during a debate.... something like:

“President Trump, how much is a gallon of milk?”

I wonder what his response would be ... actually he’d probably just say “ I never had to buy any because I have people for that because I’m a rich stable genius” or something.

Image result for its one banana michael gif

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18 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Yes.  It’s treason.  I’m not joking when I post he should be tried, then hung if guilty.  I have no idea why he gets a pass on this.  Are we too sensitive to discuss these things?

According to Article Three, Section Three of the Constitution, "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

For Donald Trump to have committed treason, there has to be an enemy of the United States. Who would the enemy be?

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36 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I can only imagine the constant months-long outrage generated by Fox if Obama supporters made a similar video.

You don't have to imagine it. They pearl-clutched over a picture of Kathy Griffin and a modern take on the play Julius Caesar  for a solid two months. Constant preaching on morality and civility. When Trump literally tweets videos as crass or worse or his sycophants produce a video 100x as repulsive as Griffin's photo, it's just "LOL" "owning the libs" "snowflakes". 

Infuriating. 

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11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

According to Article Three, Section Three of the Constitution, "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

For Donald Trump to have committed treason, there has to be an enemy of the United States. Who would the enemy be?

Christ, I posted a theory on this just a couple of hours ago.  Scroll up.

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3 minutes ago, Lagunamadre said:

You don't have to imagine it. They pearl-clutched over a picture of Kathy Griffin and a modern take on the play Julius Caesar  for a solid two months. Constant preaching on morality and civility. When Trump literally tweets videos as crass or worse or his sycophants produce a video 100x as repulsive as Griffin's photo, it's just "LOL" "owning the libs" "snowflakes". 

Infuriating. 

I'm old enough to remember weeks of outrage because a restaurant didn't want to serve Sarah Sanders.  Because of kiddy concentration camps.   

Every accusation they make about lack of civility is a confession.

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12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

If there is no declaration of war by Congress, are they enemies of the state?

There is no requirement for declaration of war.

Quote

 

Enemy of the United States Law and Legal Definition

According to 50 USCS § 2204 [Title 50. War and National Defense; Chapter 39. Spoils of War], enemy of the United States means any country, government, group, or person that has been engaged in hostilities, whether or not lawfully authorized, with the United States;

(3) the term "person" means

(A) any natural person;

(B) any corporation, partnership, or other legal entity; and

(C) any organization, association, or group.

 

 

Edited by TexLonghorn
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1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's not like it wasn't in the actual post you replied to.

ISIS is the enemy.  We've been at war with them for years.  To argue otherwise is silly semantics.

Exactly. Semantics matter. Any lawyer worth his salt can make a very convincing argument that in order for there to be an enemy, the United States must be at war, and in order for the United States to be at war, Congress must declare war.

That's the argument, at least.

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Any lawyer worth his salt can make a very convincing argument that the definition of "enemy of the state" in this statue about war should then be applicable in deciding whether treasonous aid of an "enemy of the state" has occurred.  That's the argument, at least.

Edited by TexLonghorn
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Just now, TexLonghorn said:

You weren't asking about treason, you were asking about what qualifies as an enemy of the state.

Yeah, and that particular statute deals with enemies of the state regarding spoils of war. I'm not sure that definition would still be used in terms of treason, but treason has been codified, so it might.

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You're setting up the ridiculous situation where a president (or any other persons) could conspire with a foreign force to attack and destroy the Capitol Building and everyone who might be inside, but the president would not commit treason in that act because Congress would not have declared war at that point.  And if the destruction is severe enough, there may be an extended time of attack against the US that would not involve any treason for you because no declaration of war yet.

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11 minutes ago, TexLonghorn said:

Any lawyer worth his salt can make a very convincing argument that the definition of "enemy of the state" in this statue about war should then be applicable in deciding whether treasonous aid of an "enemy of the state" has occurred.  That's the argument, at least.

And that's a good argument to make.

Here's one UT law professor's take. It's pretty interesting regarding Russia.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/americans-have-forgotten-what-treason-actually-means-how-it-can-ncna848651

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1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

BUT OBAMA!

The tinfoil talking points inform your every post, Swindle.  I don't suppose a sucker knows they're a sucker, but . . . you're a sucker.

Not an argument, but  keep circle jerkin around that Trump Cookie.  I wonder which one of you TDS folks will be the one that has to eat it???

Are you saying that the CIA, during the Obama administration, didn't arm the moderate rebels in Syria (which was directed by John McCain?) They did so with the intention of them rallying to supress the Assad regime and that shit backfired.  The aftermath was that they diverted those arms and resources to Iraq during the Obama years.  Wouldn't you know, the mainstream narrative was Obama left Iraq and ISIS was empowered!! All the while they were empowered by us arming them to supress Assad.  BUT WE HAVE TO BE THERE OR THEY"LL COME HERE!?? 

 

 Maybe you lefties will actually stand for the anti-war principle this time being that Trump hypocritically deployed troops to Saudi Arabia to help fight the Yemenis (which have also been slaughtered due to our support of the violent Saudi Regime) while simultaneously clamoring on Twitter to END THE ENDLESS WARS!!?!?!!?

Trump has to grapple with that hypocrisy with the anti-war crowd, I say bring em' home and fuck interventionism.  

 

 

 

Edited by American Swindle
fuck interventionism
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30 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I don't see it as treason.  He's sacrificing the Kurds so that Turkey (which I guess is still technically an ally) can ultimately destroy Syria. 

So taking action that directly benefits captive ISIS terrorists doesn't make the discussion?

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3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

So taking action that directly benefits captive ISIS terrorists doesn't make the discussion?

I think anything can be in the discussion.  I just think that there is a whole lot of leeway in terms of what is treasonous when you don't have one or two big nations that make up all the combatants. 

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2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Negged for being non-sequitur. Your attempt to put your feet on as many bases as possible to make yourself seem balanced is comical enough to almost cancel out the neg. 

You dress up Trump's coup complaint in deep state conspiracy sheep's clothing. You don't bother to support your point about Obama/Brennan/apparatus literally arming ISIS and how, if true, this constitutes treason against the US as opposed to merely the result of short sighted policy. Was the Iraq invasion treason for W? It's maybe the worst policy decision of my lifetime and I was against it from the first, but I didn't see the lying justification and fiasco of an outcome to be treasonous. Criminal probably, but not treason.

Was arming what became the Taliban and Al Quaeda to fight the Soviets treason? Your point is weak.

But, you're a peace-loving kind of a guy which the libs usually dig, right? You're just going to pilloried because of the ol' echo-chamberin', circle jerkin' lib cabal. Your arguments are so strong, that prejudice is the only reason they could be rejected. Slick.

Is arming terrorists treason?  Let's say they killed some of our service members in Iraq, this would mean that we literally armed an enemy that helped kill our soldiers. The argument can be made. 

Bush committed War Crimes, not Treason.

I would argue that Trump could be impeached on the grounds of aiding SA in their slaughter and famine of Yemenis more so than this Ukraine deal.  

Also, the Kurds have the support of Syria now their only ally, but we don't like Syria, are ya'll okay with that now since we care so much about the Kurds or is it a "BUT ASSAD!!" deal breaker?

I know, it was probably Tulsi that told Assad to do it....

It's enough to make one's head spin I know!

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So now we are leaving 1,000 troops in Syria to prevent the revival which was supposedly 100% defeated according to Trump. And in the process allowed the slaughter of god knows how many of our allies. And I am sure the GOP is still handing out donuts as we speak. 

Edited by shnsajax
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1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

According to Article Three, Section Three of the Constitution, "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

For Donald Trump to have committed treason, there has to be an enemy of the United States. Who would the enemy be?

 

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

ISIS, the Taliban, North Korea, Vladimir Putin.

Really kind of a pick ‘em at this point.

If we can prove he was giving classified info to Russia that's a start.  And that's easy.  There's all kinds of other charges we could legitimately bring on his fat ass. 

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or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”

 

i don't see how trump actively aiding Russian direct attack on America's election for his benefit then giving them the "aid and comfort" of covering up the attack and failing to levy sanctions passed by congress isn't 100 percent treason by definition. It certainly is. 

people are just too scared and conditioned to not go that far in accusing for treason. It's like no one wants to believe what is happening is actually happening. That the USA is in free fall and becoming more of a dictatorial police state by the day. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Junior Miller
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15 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

It's like no one wants to believe what is happening is actually happening. That the USA is in free fall and becoming more of a dictatorial police state by the day. 

I don’t buy the police state thing, but the first sentence accurately describes a lot of the US today.   

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3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I don’t buy the police state thing, but the first sentence accurately describes a lot of the US today.   

Where is the line between “Police State” and “Not a Police State?”

Seems like we’re very much there on a few metrics like incarceration numbers, concentration camps, and prisons for profit. 

I mean, arming school teachers is now a legitimate debate. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

I don’t buy the police state thing, but the first sentence accurately describes a lot of the US today.   

We have more people in prison than any other country on Earth. Guess that means we are the worst people on the planet or we have a police state. I vote the latter.

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Well, in fairness, the only impediments were things like "laws" and "regulations."  Based on current track record, they fairly assumed that meant that they didn't matter at all.


They were just going to push it through until Trump got a look at Gowdy and thought he looked like the cryptkeeper, you know, like a smaller version of himself.
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