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Posted
1 hour ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

The question is whether you would have ignored the threat.  Would you have?

 

I think he is.  He's assassinating their leaders and destroying their defenses.  I think they are move likely to deescalate their hostilities now than they a few months ago.  But it was always inevitable as long as Iran continued to be and support Israel's enemies.  

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Posted
42 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I didn’t volunteer to go fight and I didn’t have any money to give but I did shoot my shot and went down in flames. I feel that in my own way I did my part as a martyr for the cause. 

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Posted
This mindset will back fire.  The Chinese professor was describing the war between Athens and Sparta and how the Athenians abandoned virtues for outright bully mindset (which was due to their financial strains from war vs Sparta).  It did lead to their downfall.  We are currently morphing into the same due to our own financial strains.

I hope this is a bad summary. it is not what happened.
Posted
3 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This is an Anastasis-level #bothsides take, wow. 
 

No, and I can’t believe I even have to type these words, the relationship between Iran and her two terrorist clients/proxies in the Levant is in no respect like the relationship between the United States and Israel. 
 

good grief. 

Where would Israel be without aid from the U.S. in money and arms? The British were primarily responsible for the creation of a Jewish state on Arab land. So they’d exist without us. But when it came to war, where would Israel be now? What would their borders look like without American patronage? You don’t see any parallels?

Also, fuck you for comparing me to Anastasis. Don’t be a clown, Bozo. 

Posted
1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

You don’t see any parallels?

In a word no. Just three big category errors in the service of a really ridiculously false equivalence. I don’t even know where to begin. 

Posted
41 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

At this point it seems fair to ask if the president has been checked for Multiple Personality Disorder.


Psychopathy is driving that car

Posted
3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I love how "woke" is now just a word that means "anything that doesn't support the Trump narrative."  The MAGA ability to just make up definitions for things that has no tie to reality: woke, DEI, CRT...it's impressive to watch.

i love how grok continues to stay woke

Posted
1 hour ago, TexArcher said:

At this point it seems fair to ask if the president has been checked for Multiple Personality Disorder.

it's classic impostor syndrome

he's cosplaying himself in the role of president

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Posted
1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

In a word no. Just three big category errors in the service of a really ridiculously false equivalence. I don’t even know where to begin. 

Don't take this as an attack.

I'd propose The Holocaust and post-WW II would be a good place to begin.

If you can name 3 errors, start with the first.

The Middle East has been fubar'ed for the better part of a century. "I don't know where to begin" probably resonates with everyone.

Posted
2 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Insane

 

 

Doesn't this dumb MFer know he's ripping off John McCain from ~ 20 years ago?

 

Posted
10 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:
Quote

The British controlled Palestine for almost three decades, overseeing a succession of protests, riots and revolts between the Jewish and Palestinian Arab communities. 

OK. Maybe move the begin point back a bit. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

David Fromkin's A Peace to End All Peace is a great read on the topic, although at 35 years old or so it's not fully up to date. That said it's a very good survey on the end of the Ottoman Empire from the Young Turk movement pre-WWI to Ataturk; the effect of the war on Türkiye, the Levant, and Palestine; and the creation of the modern Middle East. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

OK. Maybe move the begin point back a bit. 

Well, that was post-Balfour, which came from that imperial British genius of promising everything to everyone, all at once.

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Posted
3 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

iran has to be running low on missiles ?

Most analysts don't think so, they seem to be running low on TELs which are harder to hide after they fire.

Israel was running out on Arrow missiles though, a higher percentage of ballistic missiles passed through.

Posted
8 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

If you can name 3 errors, start with the first.

Well sure:

1) The United States, the ethnically and culturally diverse two hundred year old secular republic that is the world’s economic and cultural center, for all of its flaws, has nothing in common the Islamic Republic of Iran, a 46 year old 3rd world pariah state. 
2) Hezbollah and Hamas are terrorist organizations, Israel is a nation-state
3) Israel is not a proxy of The United States in Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah, with respect to October 7 and everything since are almost exclusively Iranian proxies.
 

Literally the only similarity is the acceptance of financial and military aid. it’s just an absurd analogy 

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Posted
55 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Well sure:

1) The United States, the ethnically and culturally diverse two hundred year old secular republic that is the world’s economic and cultural center, for all of its flaws, has nothing in common the Islamic Republic of Iran, a 46 year old 3rd world pariah state. 
2) Hezbollah and Hamas are terrorist organizations, Israel is a nation-state
3) Israel is not a proxy of The United States in Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah, with respect to October 7 and everything since are almost exclusively Iranian proxies.
 

Literally the only similarity is the acceptance of financial and military aid. it’s just an absurd analogy 

I'm pretty much over the word terrorism, especially when insufferable liberals use it to describe every Islamic and/or Arab person, country, or group (or those who are sympathetic) that does something they don't like. The word basically means nothing anymore and arguably never did. Most people and/or groups that are designated terrorists are only designated such because we (the US) have insisted on it. I have been called a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer literally dozens of times on this fucking board, by insane reactionary conservatives to annoying shitlibs that seemingly get all their notes from Jake Tapper, simply because I am pro-Palestinian. A DT poster said I should be on the terror watch list yesterday.

Hell, by definition, a ton of different actions taken by the United States and Israel could and should be considered terrorism. For example, orchestrating and initiating coups in sovereign countries (including, but not limited to, Iran) and our many acts of deliberate destabilization (including, but not limited to, Iran) but only aren't because they are nation states.

Israel has, just since October 7th mind you, mercilessly bombed Lebanon, killing thousands of and displacing over a million civilians, and deliberately destroyed critical non-military infrastructure. I don't know what to call that besides just straight up terrorism. And since it's being perpetrated with US weapons and money, state-sponsored terrorism. Hezbollah is an active Lebanese political party with a paramilitary wing that was formed in direct response to Israeli aggression and violence. Does Lebanon have a right to defend itself? I guess not, since it is an Arab country that the US/Israel doesn't like.

Pretty much everything Israel has done in Gaza in the last several decades could and should be considered terrorism. Their enforcement of apartheid measures in Israel proper and the West Bank, and the active and open sponsorship of settler violence in the West Bank are quite literally terrorism and state-sponsored terrorism.

Saying they are not our proxy when they could not sustain even a single one of their aggressive campaigns without our military and financial support is laughable.

 

You are using semantic differences in order to twist yourself into knots to not have to face the facts that there are far more similarities than you'd like to admit. Your contention is, effectively, that as long as a nation state does it, it's not terrorism. Whether or not you recognize that's what you're doing is irrelevant, it's simply reality.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I'm pretty much over the word terrorism, especially when insufferable liberals use it to describe every Islamic and/or Arab person, country, or group (or those who are sympathetic) that does something they don't like. The word basically means nothing anymore and arguably never did. Most people and/or groups that are designated terrorists are only designated such because we (the US) have insisted on it. I have been called a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer literally dozens of times on this fucking board, by insane reactionary conservatives to annoying shitlibs that seemingly get all their notes from Jake Tapper, simply because I am pro-Palestinian. A DT poster said I should be on the terror watch list yesterday.

Hell, by definition, a ton of different actions taken by the United States and Israel could and should be considered terrorism. For example, orchestrating and initiating coups in sovereign countries (including, but not limited to, Iran) and our many acts of deliberate destabilization (including, but not limited to, Iran) but only aren't because they are nation states.

Israel has, just since October 7th mind you, mercilessly bombed Lebanon, killing thousands of and displacing over a million civilians, and deliberately destroyed critical non-military infrastructure. I don't know what to call that besides just straight up terrorism. And since it's being perpetrated with US weapons and money, state-sponsored terrorism. Hezbollah is an active Lebanese political party with a paramilitary wing that was formed in direct response to Israeli aggression and violence. Does Lebanon have a right to defend itself? I guess not, since it is an Arab country that the US/Israel doesn't like.

Pretty much everything Israel has done in Gaza in the last several decades could and should be considered terrorism. Their enforcement of apartheid measures in Israel proper and the West Bank, and the active and open sponsorship of settler violence in the West Bank are quite literally terrorism and state-sponsored terrorism.

Saying they are not our proxy when they could not sustain even a single one of their aggressive campaigns without our military and financial support is laughable.

 

You are using semantic differences in order to twist yourself into knots to not have to face the facts that there are far more similarities than you'd like to admit. Your contention is, effectively, that as long as a nation state does it, it's not terrorism. Whether or not you recognize that's what you're doing is irrelevant, it's simply reality.

Everything you just said is bullshit.
 

We know what terrorist organizations are and what terrorism is. 

The difference between a terrorist organization and a nation-state is not merely semantic.

The relationship between a pariah state and their terrorist proxies is not similar to the relationship between two state actors with democratically chosen governments. Israel is certainly the beneficiary of US support. But suggesting they are somehow our puppet or act on our behalf independent of their own interests or constituents is utter nonsense. 

I’m not defending the conduct of Israel, but Hamas has been acting as the proxy of Iran since the October 7th attack. Hamas has no independent or constituent interest. They have been worse than indifferent to the people of Palestine since they took power. They  have used the it just violence and intimidation against Israeli civilians and other Jews in the region but also deliberately worsen the suffering and intimidation of Palestinians as a political weapon and deliberately put them in harm’s way to achieve Iran’s political objective. That’s a terrorist proxy, by definition. 

Come on man.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
16 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Everything you just said is bullshit.
 

We know what terrorist organizations are and what terrorism is. 

The difference between a terrorist organization and a nation-state is not merely semantic.

The relationship between a pariah state and their terrorist proxies is not similar to the relationship between two state actors with democratically chosen governments. Israel is certainly the beneficiary of US support. But suggesting they are somehow our puppet or act on our behalf independent of their own interests or constituents is utter nonsense. 

I’m not defending the conduct of Israel, but Hamas has been acting as the proxy of Iran since the October 7th attack. Hamas has no independent or constituent interest. They have been worse than indifferent to the people of Palestine since they took power. They  have used the it just violence and intimidation against Israeli civilians and other Jews in the region but also deliberately worsen the suffering and intimidation of Palestinians as a political weapon and deliberately put them in harm’s way to achieve Iran’s political objective. That’s a terrorist proxy, by definition. 

Come on man.

Uhh Hamas staged Oct 7 without Iranian approval (and we are more than 100% confident about this because Tehran was Mossad's playground apperantly), does that not make them non proxys according to your definition?

As for the 700 arrested people, no doubt a lot of them are innocent people but I think that Mossad playground might be closed for good. Netanyahu really screwed the pooch just to remain in power.

Posted
14 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Wow we spent tons of money and made ourselves hated around the world and achieved basically nothing. America ladies and gentlemen.

Look I hate to be captain obvious here but Iran is inevitably going to get a nuke if they want one. If you want to stop them you have to do something a little more drastic than just drop a few bombs.

Or, you know, negotiate and sign a deal like Obama did. 

Which can never happen now as the US has debased itself to such an extent it is rendered untrustworthy to even it's allies. 

Iran will have a nuclear weapon before long. Both the US and Israel can't afford an invasion without it becoming catastrophic to their own capabilities and economic strength. 

80 years of history says that's not the boogyman the Israeli interests make it out to be. They'll have a nuke, just like North Korea, India, Pakistan, and many other terrible, oppressive regimes before them. And they'll do just like the others have. Because no matter what bullshit these religious nuts say, narcissistic leaders of countries can't feed their narcissism if they commit suicide, or at least destroy their own countries. 80 years have proven it over and over again. 

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Posted

There should be an SNL skit where Trump orders the strike and everyone in the war room starts pantomiming an air attack on Iran.  Running around with their arms spread like wings and making whooshing sounds while others act out explosions and scream “Mercy, Trump!  Mercy!”  Then JD Vance speaks up to say, “Mr President.  Through your daring leadership, you have completely obliterated Iran’s nuclear program and ushered in a golden age of Middle East peace.”

Tulsi Gabbard raises her hand and says, “Wait… we are getting intelligence reports that we may n…”. JD cuts her off “SHUT THE FUCK UP, TULSI!!!  YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT!!”

Needs an ending.

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Posted
10 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

One of the greatest foreign policy blunders of all time. Or at least it was the start of a chain of events that constituted one. It was the principle motivator. Declaring a national home for the Jewish people didn’t have to mean the creation of a Jewish state but their were advocates and influencers involved who always had that goal and that was the result. So one people granted a second people the land of a third people and created a situation where there will never be peace under the status quo.

Also, since the establishment of the state of Israel, they’ve received more aid from the U.S. in the form of weapons and cash than any other country so it’s pretty hard to argue that we aren’t a big reason they’ve had the success fighting their enemies that they’ve had. That’s been on full display in Gaza and Iran just recently but it’s been official U.S. policy for decades.

 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Everything that the dear leader doesn’t like is fake news. Thank you for your attention to this matter!

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So now there's no reason to keep fucking with Iran if these strikes were successful and completely destroyed Iran's nuclear capabilities. Just pull back and leave them alone. 

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

One of the greatest foreign policy blunders of all time. Or at least it was the start of a chain of events that constituted one. It was the principle motivator. Declaring a national home for the Jewish people didn’t have to mean the creation of a Jewish state but their were advocates and influencers involved who always had that goal and that was the result. So one people granted a second people the land of a third people and created a situation where there will never be peace under the status quo.

Also, since the establishment of the state of Israel, they’ve received more aid from the U.S. in the form of weapons and cash than any other country so it’s pretty hard to argue that we aren’t a big reason they’ve had the success fighting their enemies that they’ve had. That’s been on full display in Gaza and Iran just recently but it’s been official U.S. policy for decades.

And a significant component of that dogmatic support for Israel is the belief that it checks one of the key boxes for Christ to return and usher in the end of days. Fundagelicals have been buckwild over that for decades

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Posted
36 minutes ago, linux said:

Uhh Hamas staged Oct 7 without Iranian approval (and we are more than 100% confident about this because Tehran was Mossad's playground apperantly), does that not make them non proxys according to your definition?

Even if they didn’t explicitly order it or approve it, they were aware of it before it happened, didn’t act to stop it, and subsequently ordered celebrations and banners hung on the streets. Which makes sense, because they were the primary beneficiary.

 

Posted
7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Even if they didn’t explicitly order it or approve it, they were aware of it before it happened, didn’t act to stop it, and subsequently ordered celebrations and banners hung on the streets. Which makes sense, because they were the primary beneficiary.

 

You talking about Iran or Netanyahu's government? I can't tell, please be more specific.

Posted
18 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Even if they didn’t explicitly order it or approve it, they were aware of it before it happened, didn’t act to stop it, and subsequently ordered celebrations and banners hung on the streets. Which makes sense, because they were the primary beneficiary.

 

If they knew then Israel knew since they were a leaking bucket.

Also I saw an insane amount of US based jingonism online rah rahing Israel, including the top cheeto that was so damn jealous he had to get the last word, probably watched Top Gun 2 to get in the mood.

Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

You talking about Iran or Netanyahu's government? I can't tell, please be more specific.

Iran, but it’s not a stretch to frame the political security of the Netanyahu regime and those to his right as secondary beneficiaries of the attack. And why not, after all, they seem to have promoted Hamas as a way to undermine the successes of the Palestine Authority and thus secure their own position. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova


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