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Posted
1 minute ago, Captainant said:

Kind of strange to get fixated on civilian deaths from nukes specifically in WWII - incendiaries and manufactured firestorms completely erased whole cities just as readily. The nukes were just more efficient, but we very successfully killed 100,000 and dehomed 1,000,000 in one spring night in Tokyo 1945. Just with HE and incendiary. 

The strategic bombing of Japan was a far greater cruelty than just dropping Fat Man and Little Boy. It took longer than nukes, but it killed civilians dead just the same. 

The great game changer of nukes is that one plane carries the equivalent destructive power of 334. Or more

There is a level of overrating the Nuclear bomb, maybe it was propaganda to excuse so much money spent (afterall the bomb just HAD to be dropped despite objections by the Manhattan project scientists).

A) there weren't that many, only 3 at most for a very long time, and two were used

B) Required air superiority because only bombers could deliver them, and you don't want to risk that if there is air patrols.

C) lastly kilotons are not megatons as mentioned the potential to kill was way lower

That said nukes really became the end of humanity threat during the hottest moment s of the cold war.

A) tens of thousands of nukes

B) ICBMs that could deliver them anywhere in mere minutes

C) Hydrogen bombs in the megaton range.

I am guessing this is where the confusion comes from, conflating one with the other.

Posted

In the last year Chainsaw has decided to expose himself as someone who knows only about half as much as he thinks he does multiple times. But worse, rather than learning and moving on, he doubles down in his wrongness and sticks his fingers in his ears. He's like an alternative reality Ani. 

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Posted
9 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Because he wanted to kill 200,000 civilians instead of end the war. Right? That's my point. It was completely unnecessary to end the war.

Eh, fuck ‘em.  Don’t start shit, won’t be shit.  The ultimate FAFO.

Posted
12 hours ago, Texas Fight said:

Biggest turning point? It was the B-29. They only dropped two bombs. A little boy and a fat man.

Ending point maybe, but not turning point. The turning point was when the war changed psychologically. The Doolittle raid gave the US the confidence they could win and the Japanese the fear that the US wasn't the easy pushover they originally thought.

The battle of Midway gave the US the strategic advantage.

It could have been much sooner if some idiots at Pearl Harbor hadn't taken the warnings so lightly.

Posted
1 hour ago, HenryJames said:

 

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trump should have told them where HE would be at one o'clock and allowed them to hit that spot.

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Posted
13 hours ago, chainsaw said:

You are lending a lot of weight on opinions.  US General Stillwell, who was working with CKS, was concerned with how poorly the Chinese military under CKS performed (and the corruption which siphoned money away from building airbases) so there was no guarantee they defeat Mao.   It was CKS who once stated he would rather kill 1000 innocents than let one communist escape.   Not exactly the statement of someone, who as the head of a fascist party, blamed the poor performance of his military on outsiders and internal rot (sound familiar?) and it is difficult to imagine that this regime was not going to produce further bloodshed no matter if he won or lost.  This guy had to be kidnapped by his own generals and forced to fight against the Japanese during WWII.    

 

Posted
9 hours ago, Captainant said:

Kind of strange to get fixated on civilian deaths from nukes specifically in WWII - incendiaries and manufactured firestorms completely erased whole cities just as readily. The nukes were just more efficient, but we very successfully killed 100,000 and dehomed 1,000,000 in one spring night in Tokyo 1945. Just with HE and incendiary. 

The strategic bombing of Japan was a far greater cruelty than just dropping Fat Man and Little Boy. It took longer than nukes, but it killed civilians dead just the same. 

The great game changer of nukes is that one plane carries the equivalent destructive power of 334. Or more

You're right about this. The consensus among the military brass at that time was Japan was already at the table willing to cede its sovereignty to the US. The reason was our non-nuclear firebombings were already completely effective in getting Japan to bend the knee, and yes people completely overlook how much destruction our non-nuclear strikes were capable of and did inflict in Tokyo. The nukes were completely gratuitous killings, for no reason other than to intimidate the Soviets.

10 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

@chainsaw hey how about you go update the Blake Lively thread for us

haven't seen as much press about it

Posted
9 hours ago, linux said:

But then again they did not surrender before the Soviets declared war in between both bombs.

At the end of the day historical consensus that everything that happened after the surrender of Germany was less the conclusion of WWII, but the beginning of the Cold War.

All of the ramifications

The US dropping nukes literally on the day the Soviets promised to enter the war,

Japan feeling betrayed by the Soviets, led to them siding with the US 100% after Truman allowed Hirohito to stay.

the Soviets invading Manchuria and giving it to Mao as a the springboard to win the Sino civil war

The Soviet capture of pyongyang and US landings at Inchon, dividing Korea.

All of it was Cold War related. That was the calculus.


If only there was a thread ---- or an entire subforum ---- to debate what happened 80 years ago between the U.S. and Japan! 

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Posted
2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

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The only think that separates this from Iranian State TV propaganda is anti-regime press is allowed in. For now. They're trying to get rid of that too. 

American people are so blind and lost. 

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Hahahahahaha

I read several stories about that topic in MSM sources. They were quite interesting. Those pilots are bad asses. 

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Posted

The Iran forewarning story is pretty spot on with Esper’s account of how Iran handled the 2020 rebuttal to our bombings then. 

Posted

I am personally glad that these assholes are not getting the benefit o the doubt, in the old days military action got a rally around the flag effect, but these punks lost in the polls.



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