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Roberts is the only Republican on the court right now that I believe has a high level of ethics and an overriding respect for the rule of law.  Instead you have folks like Thomas that don't ask a single curious question for years while accepting levels of largesse that ANY reasonable person would be see only as a negative stain on the reputation of the court.

What we have learned is that if Republicans are given power they will exercise it to the furthest extreme.  Extremes that fit within a parameter where lies don't matter, corruption doesn't matter, votes don't matter only power matters.  Thomas has the power now, and he has never given a fuck about anything but himself. The court is just a way to get free trips, and put the rubber stamp of a non-curious jurist voting exactly as planned without contemplation.  A shill if you will.

What the Supreme court shows us today, is that if you want to corrupt the court, you can corrupt the court.  Now you have to use corrupt means, you must disregard fairness and principle to achieve this goal, and that was what Republicans did.  When a minority abuses their power to place three minority view judges to the highest court in the land with the fewest votes to affirm ever you damage the credibility of the court.

Republicans currently are morally corrupt. It's no surprise Republican judges suffer from the same affliction.

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6 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

He has documents signed by Ponce de Leon, Christopher Columbus, Amerigo Vespucci, George Washington, Robert E Lee, every signer of the Declaration of Independence, every signer of the US Constitution.  Paintings by Peale, Renoir, Monet, Dwight Eisenhower, Winston Churchill and Adolf Hitler


CCF57996-98AA-458B-889E-9AA9DFBD28BC.png.e53a7ee633bf1714e55949cf0fe447f8.png

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Just now, YChang said:

Mmmm… I dunno, rich people collection by nature are different than normal people collections. I’m sure there’s a certain amount of, prestige among his buddies that he paid $$$ for a signed copy of the book. 

I wouldn't be surprised, but it would certainly make me think that his buddies also have some nazi sympathies! 

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1 minute ago, horn4life said:

Roberts is the only Republican on the court right now that I believe has a high level of ethics and an overriding respect for the rule of law.  Instead you have folks like Thomas that don't ask a single curious question for years while accepting levels of largesse that ANY reasonable person would be see only as a negative stain on the reputation of the court.

What we have learned is that if Republicans are given power they will exercise it to the furthest extreme.  Extremes that fit within a parameter where lies don't matter, corruption doesn't matter, votes don't matter only power matters.  Thomas has the power now, and he has never given a fuck about anything but himself. The court is just a way to get free trips, and put the rubber stamp of a non-curious jurist voting exactly as planned without contemplation.  A shill if you will.

What the Supreme court shows us today, is that if you want to corrupt the court, you can corrupt the court.  Now you have to use corrupt means, you must disregard fairness and principle to achieve this goal, and that was what Republicans did.  When a minority abuses their power to place three minority view judges to the highest court in the land with the fewest votes to affirm ever you damage the credibility of the court.

Republicans currently are morally corrupt. It's no surprise Republican judges suffer from the same affliction.

So uh, how were the last 20 years you spent in a coma?

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12 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Your typical somewhat eccentric WW2 memorabilia collector might have a Luger and like a Wehrmacht jacket or something, along with allied stuff. Hitler's personal teapot and a Hitler-signed copy of mein kampf is, uh, not the same thing.

I don't know, people are weird.  I know a few orthodox Jews who have Nazi memorabilia and I just kind of assumed it was as a reminder of the past, never forget etc.  Maybe someone they hunted down post war, whatever.  But then I saw how many of these same orthodox Jews were hard core Trump fans.  Not sure what to make of it - other than people are weird.  

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8 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I don't know, people are weird.  I know a few orthodox Jews who have Nazi memorabilia and I just kind of assumed it was as a reminder of the past, never forget etc.  Maybe someone they hunted down post war, whatever.  But then I saw how many of these same orthodox Jews were hard core Trump fans.  Not sure what to make of it - other than people are weird.  

There were, in fact, some orthodox Jews who originally supported Hitler, because the nazis initially aimed most of their anti-Jewish rhetoric against "secular" Jews. I don't know any orthodox Jews, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if some today (Ben Shapiro, for example) actually think much of the nazi anti-Jewish policy (the portion focused on "secular" Jews) was good and that the nazis just went a little overboard.

Edited by wildcat09
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It shouldn't need to be explained but probably does for at least a few posters, but I don't think any of us on the "what the fuck is he doing with nazi shit?" side think it means that he is secretly doing weird esoteric nazi ceremonies trying to bring Hitler back from the dead, or that he consciously secretly harbors a lot of pro-nazi views, but that it's indicative of possibly subconscious pro-nazi sympathies he harbors. Put another way:

 

If this were a "never again" thing, he wouldn't be collecting nazi napkins and shit, he'd be collecting stuff that honors the victims of the Holocaust. This isn't owning a Luger because it's a good gun.  He fetishizes weird pointless-to-have nazi stuff specifically because it's nazi stuff. It's cool to him.  Because the nazis are cool to him. 

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1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

As a diehard Astros fan, I also love to collect 2022 Phillies merchandise to display in my house.

If I walk into your house and see Adolf Hitler's teapot, I'm going to assume my Jewish ass is not welcome, and there will be nothing you can say that will convince me otherwise.

Actually, there have to be Phillies 2023 World Champion t-shirts that were pre-printed. I would love to get my hands on one of those. I would also take a USC national champions t-shirt.

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4 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Actually, there have to be Phillies 2023 World Champion t-shirts that were pre-printed. I would love to get my hands on one of those. I would also take a USC national champions t-shirt.

I would love a Phillies 2022 Word Champion shirt. I wouldn't want a Braves 2021 World Champion shirt.

Also, uh, I may have been too charitable to ol' Harlan:

 

I feel fairly comfortable saying I bet Harlan thinks the nazis had a lot of good thoughts about race!

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23 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

There were, in fact, some orthodox Jews who originally supported Hitler, because the nazis initially aimed most of their anti-Jewish rhetoric against "secular" Jews. I don't know any orthodox Jews, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if some today (Ben Shapiro, for example) actually think much of the nazi anti-Jewish policy (the portion focused on "secular" Jews) was good and that the nazis just went a little overboard.

I mean maybe, but these people are not Ben Shapiro, they're very orthodox.  I know them through business, anyone who does postacute medicine will work with their facilities.  Anyways, having a Nazi memorabilia fetish would be a problem for anyone, in my book. 

But these people have adopted Trump's mantra - "I'm never wrong, you're always wrong".  No matter wtf is going on.  And studies show that's psychologically damaging... so of course, we'll keep seeing more and more of that.  The sliver of hope is the younger generation is leaning hard against this bullshit and even as millennials aged they really haven't been going to the right like past generations as they got older.  

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42 minutes ago, horn4life said:

Roberts is the only Republican on the court right now that I believe has a high level of ethics and an overriding respect for the rule of law.  Instead you have folks like Thomas that don't ask a single curious question for years while accepting levels of largesse that ANY reasonable person would be see only as a negative stain on the reputation of the court


Confused Gary Coleman GIF

 

Go read up on his history with voting rights 

he’s a huge piece of shit 

 

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43 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

So uh, how were the last 20 years you spent in a coma?

it's all relative now.  Compared to the rest of the GOP court?  I think he does actually contemplate.  I agree on the voting rights, but as bad as he is, he now seems more reasonable... because the rest are right wing political hittters.

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6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It shouldn't need to be explained but probably does for at least a few posters, but I don't think any of us on the "what the fuck is he doing with nazi shit?" side think it means that he is secretly doing weird esoteric nazi ceremonies trying to bring Hitler back from the dead, or that he consciously secretly harbors a lot of pro-nazi views, but that it's indicative of possibly subconscious pro-nazi sympathies he harbors. Put another way:

 

If this were a "never again" thing, he wouldn't be collecting nazi napkins and shit, he'd be collecting stuff that honors the victims of the Holocaust. This isn't owning a Luger because it's a good gun.  He fetishizes weird pointless-to-have nazi stuff specifically because it's nazi stuff. It's cool to him.  Because the nazis are cool to him. 

I don't even think its a "never again" thing.  I see it more as a personal museum, which is exactly what it is, and you have all kinds of historical shit.  If he only had Nazi stuff, that would be weird as fuck. But history isn't only good shit.

Some people are into the Civil War.  It would be weird to me if they only collected Union items.

I've read some of the best discussions of war, battles, historical figures, etc. on this site or its predecessors.  It is quite possible to be interested in the opposition and despise them as the same time.  If I got into collecting WWII shit, I think I would want stuff from all parts of the war. 

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1 minute ago, Don Johnson said:

I don't even think its a "never again" thing.  I see it more as a personal museum, which is exactly what it is, and you have all kinds of historical shit.  If he only had Nazi stuff, that would be weird as fuck. But history isn't only good shit.

Some people are into the Civil War.  It would be weird to me if they only collected Union items.

I've read some of the best discussions of war, battles, historical figures, etc. on this site or its predecessors.  It is quite possible to be interested in the opposition and despise them as the same time.  If I got into collecting WWII shit, I think I would want stuff from all parts of the war. 

Agreed.  I'm much more concerned with the fact he's been lavishing undisclosed gifts worth millions to a SC justice for years than the fact he has some Nazi shit as part of a massive collection.  

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Just now, Don Johnson said:

I don't even think its a "never again" thing.  I see it more as a personal museum, which is exactly what it is, and you have all kinds of historical shit.  If he only had Nazi stuff, that would be weird as fuck. But history isn't only good shit.

Some people are into the Civil War.  It would be weird to me if they only collected Union items.

I've read some of the best discussions of war, battles, historical figures, etc. on this site or its predecessors.  It is quite possible to be interested in the opposition and despise them as the same time.  If I got into collecting WWII shit, I think I would want stuff from all parts of the war

Let me put it this way. If you got into collecting WWII shit, do you think you'd collect (and prominently display in your home) memorabilia from Reserve Police Battalion 101? Because if so, that's fucked up.

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2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Let me put it this way. If you got into collecting WWII shit, do you think you'd collect (and prominently display in your home) memorabilia from Reserve Police Battalion 101? Because if so, that's fucked up.

No, I don't think I'd prominently display that in my home, certainly not over memorabilia from the "good guys."  But I also don't think it should be disposed of and forgotten.  It's interesting, historical and despicable at the same time.

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1 minute ago, kevwun said:

If it quacks like a fascist and decorates it's nest with fascist memorabilia, it's probably a fascist.

With no weight given to the Eisenhower, Churchill, every single signer of the Declaration of Independence and every single signer of the US Constitution memorabilia?

Seems logical.

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7 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

No, I don't think I'd prominently display that in my home, certainly not over memorabilia from the "good guys."  But I also don't think it should be disposed of and forgotten.  It's interesting, historical and despicable at the same time.

Remind me…does Crow have a bunch of Allied WWII memorabilia prominently displayed too?

 

ETA I haven’t been to his house so all I have to go on are the stories and tweets in here. 

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10 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

With no weight given to the Eisenhower, Churchill, every single signer of the Declaration of Independence and every single signer of the US Constitution memorabilia?

Seems logical.

All of the money and effort he's put in to nefarious political activities provides some solid hints that he thinks the Nazis had some good ideas, they just went about things the wrong way.  There's nothing in this fellow's life that points to him deserving the benefit of the doubt.

Edited by kevwun
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7 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Remind me…does Crow have a bunch of Allied WWII memorabilia prominently displayed too?

 

ETA I haven’t been to his house so all I have to go on are the stories and tweets in here. 

No clue.  Something tells me you don't walk in a find Nazi flags hanging over the breakfast table and Mein Kampf in the entry foyer.

An article from the Maddow Blog seems like it would let you know if it was like walking into the HQ in American History X

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/rich-arent-you-me-flna815035

Crow is quite a collector. His personal library would rival a small college, complete with first editions on American history, several original Gilbert Stewart paintings decorating the walls and, under long glass displays, letters of famous people from Thomas Jefferson to the Wright brothers. Then there's the room mementos of the principals of World War II – on one wall, a painting by Winston Churchill, on another wall a landscape by Dwight Eisenhower and, on a third wall, two original paintings of a European city scene by Adolph Hitler.

These are online photos:

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Just saw this today (although it's from Friday).  This is a world class exercise in obtuseness from WSJ.  Kicked back La-Z-Boys, Warden Norton, and coat hangers are like, "Yo, Journal, those are some obtuse angles you are taking!"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/clarence-thomas-supreme-court-propublica-harlan-crow-1c4c2f41?st=i664h3xubk7hi19

 

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

LOOK, IT'S HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT, OKAY?  I JUST WANT TO PRESERVE HISTORY.  NOW, IT'S MY SERVE.....

mein serve.

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2 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Just saw this today (although it's from Friday).  This is a world class exercise in obtuseness from WSJ.  Kicked back La-Z-Boys, Warden Norton, and coat hangers are like, "Yo, Journal, those are some obtuse angles you are taking!"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/clarence-thomas-supreme-court-propublica-harlan-crow-1c4c2f41?st=i664h3xubk7hi19

 

"The left’s assault on the Supreme Court is continuing, and the latest front is the news that Justice Clarence Thomas has a rich friend who has hosted the Justice on his private plane, his yacht, and his vacation resort. That’s it. That’s the story."

Err, no. That's not it. That's not the story. And even if that was the story, that's a pretty big fucking story.

This isn't your buddy who is a doctor inviting you out to take a spin in his new Mercedes or spend the weekend at their house at the lake.

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54 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

No, I don't think I'd prominently display that in my home, certainly not over memorabilia from the "good guys."  But I also don't think it should be disposed of and forgotten.  It's interesting, historical and despicable at the same time.

 

2E83FB69-8DF5-4370-8316-508767C0C1D6.jpeg

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11 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

"The left’s assault on the Supreme Court is continuing, and the latest front is the news that Justice Clarence Thomas has a rich friend who has hosted the Justice on his private plane, his yacht, and his vacation resort. That’s it. That’s the story."

Err, no. That's not it. That's not the story. And even if that was the story, that's a pretty big fucking story.

This isn't your buddy who is a doctor inviting you out to take a spin in his new Mercedes or spend the weekend at their house at the lake.

He's also really good family friends with Krysten Sinema and Joe Manchin.  Uncanny, the friendships Crow builds.  Just enjoys relationship building with political figures and the Republican Party, yet everybody wants to wrongfully push an agenda.       

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41 minutes ago, safe sex said:

This weird desire to defend billionaires some people have. I truly don't understand it

Meh, there's also an equal number of people on the other side that are convinced all people with a lot of money are pieces of shit.  Nothing will convince them otherwise.  Just ignore and move on.  

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1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

No clue.  Something tells me you don't walk in a find Nazi flags hanging over the breakfast table and Mein Kampf in the entry foyer.

An article from the Maddow Blog seems like it would let you know if it was like walking into the HQ in American History X

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/rich-arent-you-me-flna815035

Crow is quite a collector. His personal library would rival a small college, complete with first editions on American history, several original Gilbert Stewart paintings decorating the walls and, under long glass displays, letters of famous people from Thomas Jefferson to the Wright brothers. Then there's the room mementos of the principals of World War II – on one wall, a painting by Winston Churchill, on another wall a landscape by Dwight Eisenhower and, on a third wall, two original paintings of a European city scene by Adolph Hitler.

These are online photos:

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Money can't buy you taste, exhibit #3,000,015

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Don't be fooled. The super-elite in Dallas have been resistant to social progress all along. In the shadow of those glistening skyscrapers, in the shadow of those neoclassical monstrosities that make up Highland/University Park, in the shadow of the Cowboys' famed football stadiums, there has long been the specter of sublimated fascism. For decades. 

The most notorious example: On November 22, 1963, the Dallas Morning News saw no problem with printing a political ad with the headline "Wanted for Treason," with mugshot-like photos of JFK. Theres's a reason Dallas was known as the "City of Hate." Took seven years to even build a Kennedy Memorial. Of course, after the JFK assassination, the city of Dallas loosened up a bit. 

But, for the Dallas Fascist/Christian elite, the longstanding enemies were commies, atheists, and anyone or anything too "liberal." Always in some conspiratorial plot to take their Bibles, money, guns, and white supremacy. Gotta trust the billionaires and preachers, they know best. Ain't nothing gonna interfere with God-fearing Texans making money (capitalism) and praising the Lord (religious freedom). Nothing. 

 

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9 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

Don't be fooled. The super-elite in Dallas have been resistant to social progress all along. In the shadow of those glistening skyscrapers, in the shadow of those neoclassical monstrosities that make up Highland/University Park, in the shadow of the Cowboys' famed football stadiums, there has long been the specter of sublimated fascism. For decades. 

The most notorious example: On November 22, 1963, the Dallas Morning News saw no problem with printing a political ad with the headline "Wanted for Treason," with mugshot-like photos of JFK. Theres's a reason Dallas was known as the "City of Hate." Took seven years to even build a Kennedy Memorial. Of course, after the JFK assassination, the city of Dallas loosened up a bit. 

But, for the Dallas Fascist/Christian elite, the longstanding enemies were commies, atheists, and anyone or anything too "liberal." Always in some conspiratorial plot to take their Bibles, money, guns, and white supremacy. Gotta trust the billionaires and preachers, they know best. Ain't nothing gonna interfere with God-fearing Texans making money (capitalism) and praising the Lord (religious freedom). Nothing. 

 

Sure, I bet that's still there too.  But the whole other level of fuckups are the west texas assholes who are about as far right as you can get.  Texas, in general, is a hot mess but the metro areas overall sure beat what we see out of the big money folks from bumblefuck.  I'm referencing that CNN special on the two billionaries, Tim Dunn and Farris Wilkes.  Definition of evil assholes. 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/24/politics/texas-far-right-politics-invs/index.html

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My oldest aunt who died in 1998 lived in University Park. Her husband was the president of a bank in Dallas and her youngest brother, my gay uncle, told me Aunt Geneva called him the night Ann Richards won the governor's race and said, "I hope you're happy that ni***r loving woman won the governor's race." I remember her telling me: When I married Victor we didn't have a lot of money but I started shopping at Nieman Marcus and I never stopped. 
I never knew she was a racist, but those kinds of topics never came up when the large extended family gathered for Thanksgiving and Christmas at my grandparent's farm in Van Zandt County. 

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1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Meh, there's also an equal number of people on the other side that are convinced all people with a lot of money are pieces of shit.  Nothing will convince them otherwise.  Just ignore and move on.  

no, there's a big difference between rich and billionaire. most billionaires got there because they trampled a lot of people along the way. billionaires are policy failures - especially when there is bigly wealth disparity. I don't begrudge people who worked their asses off and got rich. I do have a problem with people who started on third base and claim they hit a grand slam in life. Crow is most definitely one of those people

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6 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

no, there's a big difference between rich and billionaire. most billionaires got there because they trampled a lot of people along the way. billionaires are policy failures - especially when there is bigly wealth disparity. I don't begrudge people who worked their asses off and got rich. I do have a problem with people who started on third base and claim they hit a grand slam in life. Crow is most definitely one of those people

Sure.  I’d agree.  To me someone like Bill Gates is fine.  He earned his and has pledged to give 99% away.  He is a product of capitalism.  There’s plenty of people who have good arguments against capitalism but I’m more for it than against.  I speak to people every day who want socialism.  Granted my circle is decidedly left in a fairly far left city - I have no issues with any of them personally and they seem to like me just fine.  We just disagree on capitalism and aren’t even close.  And the truth is if it’s socialism vs today’s far right - I’ll take socialism.  

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1 hour ago, BevoAbyss said:

The most notorious example: On November 22, 1963, the Dallas Morning News saw no problem with printing a political ad with the headline "Wanted for Treason," with mugshot-like photos of JFK.

I don't believe the DMN printed that handbill, which had been circulating in Dallas for days.  The political ad that was printed wasn't exactly justifiable, but not nearly so salacious.  John Birch Society gonna John Birch.

An advertisement placed in "The Dallas Morning News" on the morning of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The ad attacked Kennedy's foreign and domestic policies. The lower half had a dozen questions starting with the word "Why," preceded by the statement "MR. KENNEDY, despite contentions on the part of your administration, the State Department, the Mayor of Dallas, the Dallas City Council, and members of your party, we free-thinking and America-thinking citizens of Dallas still have, through a Constitution largely ignored by you, the right to address our grievances, to question you, to disagree with you, and to criticize you. In asserting this constitutional right, we wish to ask you publicly the following questions — indeed, questions of paramount importance and interest to all free peoples everywhere — which we trust you will answer . . . in public, without sophistry." Note that the ad has a black border, a style similar to a death notice. The ad was placed by Bernard Weissman, Chairman of the American Fact-Finding Committee. The Committee described themselves as "an unaffiliated and nonpartisan group of citizens who wish truth," but they were in fact affiliated with the John Birch Society. The cost of the ad was $1,465.00, and was provided by Joseph P. Grinnan, who was a member of the John Birch Society. Bernard Weissman was not a member of the Society. He was shocked by the assassination, and feared he would be accused of involvement with the killing. He was interviewed by the Warren Commission. Afterwards, he left the Dallas area.

 

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13 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Sure.  I’d agree.  To me someone like Bill Gates is fine.  He earned his and has pledged to give 99% away.  He is a product of capitalism.  There’s plenty of people who have good arguments against capitalism but I’m more for it than against.  I speak to people every day who want socialism.  Granted my circle is decidedly left in a fairly far left city - I have no issues with any of them personally and they seem to like me just fine.  We just disagree on capitalism and aren’t even close.  And the truth is if it’s socialism vs today’s far right - I’ll take socialism.  

ah, you and I sound more aligned that your original comment lead me to believe. I'm a proponent of capitalism, for the most part. I do believe in socialism for things that are public and that everyone deserves a bare minimum. from there, game on. 

but back to the subject at hand - we gotta get roll back Citizen's United. it might be the single most significant piece of legislation that lead us to where we are today. and fucking impeach Thomas. i don't care if it goes anywhere. it needs to be done just like it did twice for dotard. either he is massively corrupt and/or colossally stupid - neither of which should be allowed on scotus

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On the Nazi memorabilia.  When I was young both my grandfathers served in WWII.  Nazi stuff was like trophies of US victory.  My Dad had a Luger, a Nazi youth knife, and some sort of officers larger knife.  My Dad also up until the last few years was what a lot of folks would call a gun freak as I bet he has bought and sold several hundred guns over the course of his life.  We used to regularly go to gun shows when I was a kid, and he went most of his life.

But about 30 years ago he got rid of his Nazi stuff.  The simple reason he gave was that the people who wanted the Nazi stuff now did not want the stuff as trophies, but as something else, admiration and sympathy for the Nazi cause and philosophy.  

Today you have Republicans saying "The Jew Prosecutor" over and over, when they say "Soros Backed Prosecutor."  It's no surprise at all to me that one of the biggest republican donors has Nazi memoribilia... is that really any more of a surprise than Clarence Thomas proving he has no ethics? Crow pays bid buck to buys and collects things.  Apparently he has a Supreme Court Justice in his collection as well.

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I was part of a special tour of the archives at Fort Sill in Lawton, OK, and they have a bunch of Nazi stuff taken as part of the war, a bunch of Japanese flags and stuff too. They are all protected in the back and not on display. Thought it was pretty cool to see. I'd never consider owning something like that personally even if I had all the money in the world.

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7 minutes ago, Smax said:

I'm curious who the colleagues are that Thomas consulted and thought it was ok not to report receiving over a million dollars in benefits from Crow

Well, there was Antonin, John, Sammy, Neil, Brett, Amy, probably a few other experts.

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24 minutes ago, Smax said:

I'm curious who the colleagues are that Thomas consulted and thought it was ok not to report receiving over a million dollars in benefits from Crow

They were unnamed because he didn’t consult with anyone. He just figured he’d either never be caught or that there’d never be 66 senate votes to expel him from the court 

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