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The Rudy Thread


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38 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

The Back Room sucked balls and I sure miss it

Yeah.  I saw a surprising number of non-metal roadshows there, though.  The Smithereens and Del Amitri also come to mind, and they both killed.  I think that might be where I saw Helmet.

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Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss suing Rudy's ass -- again. LOFL

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/18/politics/georgia-election-workers-giuliani/index.html

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Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss, the two Georgia election workers who won a nearly $150 million verdict against Rudy Giuliani for defamation on Friday, have sued him again, asking a federal judge to permanently prohibit him from lying about them.

The lawsuit comes as Giuliani has continued to make false statements about their work as absentee ballot counters in the 2020 election.

Rudy Giuliani ordered to pay nearly $150 million to two Georgia election workers he defamed

“Defendant Giuliani continues to spread the very same lies for which he has already been held liable,” the new lawsuit said. “Defendant Giuliani’s statements, coupled with his refusal to agree to refrain from continuing to make such statements, make clear that he intends to persist in his campaign of targeted defamation and harassment. It must stop.”

Moss and Freeman’s lawyers added that even since the verdict, Giuliani has indicated he wouldn’t stop repeating the false claims about them.

At the end of the first day of their defamation damages trial against him last week, Giuliani told TV cameras outside court that “everything I said about them is true” and that he had proof that the media should “stay tuned.” Giuliani presented little defense in the case, and didn’t testify.

Moss and Freeman pointed out Giuliani also told the media after the jury’s verdict Friday he had “no doubt” his comments were “supportable,” and that he continued to repeat himself on a podcast hosted by far-right figure Steve Bannon on Saturday.

Their new lawsuit seeks a permanent injunction from the federal court in Washington, DC, to be placed on Giuliani that would prohibit him “from making or publishing, or causing to be made or published, further statements repeating any and all false claims” that the mother and daughter during the 2020 election ballot counting “engaged in election fraud, illegal activity or misconduct of any kind,” according to the filing.

More than a dozen statements Giuliani made about them, accusing the women of tampering with votes as they counted ballots, were found to be false and defamatory.

Verdict form in Rudy Giuliani federal defamation trial, December 15, 2023.

US District Court for the District of Columbia

Final judgment is for $146 million plus attorneys’ fees

In a separate court filing Monday, attorneys on both sides agreed on final numbers and terms now that the jury has weighed in.

Giuliani agreed the court’s final judgment would make clear he owes the women $146 million, plus more than $237,000 for attorneys’ fees. The jury verdict has been slightly reduced because Moss and Freeman previously settled another part of their lawsuit, against One America News Network and others.

Giuliani also said the court can say, in its final judgment, that he made more than a dozen defamatory statements about Moss and Freeman that hurt them, and that his “conduct was intentional, malicious, wanton and willful,” according to the filing.

By including those declarations in the court’s judgment, it will be more difficult for Giuliani to avoid paying Moss and Freeman by filing for bankruptcy.

The clock is likely to start soon for when the women may begin collecting what Giuliani owes them for their emotional distress, reputational harm and as punishment.

Moss and Freeman’s attorneys have told the court they would like to try to collect money and claim his assets as soon as possible, and not wait for a 30-day delay that is automatic in cases like these. Giuliani is expected to want to keep the 30-day delay.

“We are going to work very, very hard to ensure that they see every bit of money that Mr. Giuliani has available to him to pay and satisfy this judgment,” John Langford, one of Moss and Freeman’s attorneys, told CNN’s Erin Burnett after the verdict.

“Getting a final judgment entered is the document you need to go to other jurisdictions where Mr. Giuliani has assets, New York, Florida, and … attach the judgment to his assets,” Langford added.

49e4b8f1-6b73-4366-b8d8-797efe27e3e7_tex

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11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Honestly, I was confused by why they hadn’t already sought injunctive relief. They need the threat of jail time to shut this psychopath up. And no, MAGAts, the 1st amendment does not protect him.

can’t get prospective injunctive relief for this without having a prior judgment for defamation…eg, they had to wait until the damages portion of the trial was finished and judgment rendered.  

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Our justice system can sometimes work too slowly and further harm the victims but the person-in-the-wrong can't hide forever. And they sometimes even escape via death but that doesn't protect their estate once the ruling has come down. The 2 plaintiffs will never see $150M but they will get something from Rudy. Like with Alex Jones, Rudy won't be allowed to use bankruptcy to protect himself from malicious actions.

After 9/11 Rudy could do no wrong. He must have been earning millions via his Bracewell named partnership and his consulting businesses. And he was named as a legit POTUS candidate.  Now he's at the level of Mike Lindell and Candice Owens. Maybe even lower if that is possible.

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Looking at it briefly, normally the attorney liens and IRS probably get paid as a priority before Ruby and Sheye as unsecured creditors (lawyers are also unsecured, but likely state law gives them a lien priority if a Chap 13)

But…he filed as a Chapter 11.   I am vaguely familiar with the absolute priority rule in chapter 11, which seems to give Ruby and Shaye a better shot at getting money as an unsecured creditor.  A Chapter 11 can go on longer than the five years that a chapter 13 takes to wrap up, so this is not like a chapter 7, which is a snapshot in time of filing that tells the court what are the debts and what are the assets. A Chapter 13 and Chapter 11 will include ongoing revenue of the debtor in the satisfaction of creditors claims over the life of the plan. 

I am not a bankruptcy law dog, so can one of those who are, please explain to us why the hell he chose an 11 - and what it means to Ruby and Shaye getting paid?

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4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

So they can't take his primary residence, but he presumably can't sell it w/o losing that money, right?

New York's homestead law protects only 75-150k of equity.

And yeah, there's a huge chance the defamation debt will be non-dischargeable. It has to be found to be malicious and willful, and here the court's default judgment, which probably does not include such findings, may mean that it is.  But Jones's judgments were defaults, also, and found to be willful and malicious.

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Rudy hitting all the Trump talking points AND hawking an unapproved supplement on his livestreamed "America's Mayor Live" internet "show."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rudy-giuliani-hawks-unapproved-supplements-as-judge-orders-he-cough-up-148m/ar-AA1lQl00

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As a federal judge ordered Rudy Giuliani to immediately cough up $148 million he owes to two Georgia election workers he defamed, the former New York City mayor hawked unapproved supplements that he said could be used both as Christmas ornaments and to “help me fight the traitors.”

Judge Beryl A. Howell, in a 13-page ruling Wednesday, sided with election workers Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss, who had asked the court to nix a requirement for them to wait 30 days before seeking enforcement of their financial judgment against Giuliani in light of his track record as an “uncooperative litigant.” The judge granted their request, noting that Giuliani might “conceal his assets” if he were given more time based on an “ample record in this case of Giuliani’s efforts to conceal or hide his assets.”

With his legal and financial woes mounting, the former federal prosecutor took to his livestreamed program America’s Mayor Live late Wednesday to defend his former boss, the same one who reportedly repeatedly rebuffed his pleas for help paying bills after their crusade to overturn the 2020 election results blew up in their faces.

“We’re into fascist territory now,” Giuliani declared, citing his own legal setbacks and a bombshell ruling by the Colorado Supreme Court blocking Donald Trump from the state’s primary ballot over his role in the Jan. 6 insurrection.

“The four judges that wrote that opinion raped the Constitution,” Giuliani said, describing it as an “illegal, violent ripping up.” Trump’s campaign has already vowed to appeal the ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Giuliani went on to double down on popular MAGA talking points, railing against President Joe Biden for what he described as “giving away” the country to undocumented immigrants and claiming there would be no war in Ukraine if Trump were still in charge.

His rants were punctuated by awkward promotions for Balance of Nature supplements, which have been the subject of several warnings from the Food and Drug Administration over the “the company’s claims that its products could be used to diagnose, cure, mitigate, treat, or prevent diseases such as cancer, heart disease, cirrhosis, diabetes, asthma, and COVID-19.”

Giuliani, apparently getting into the holiday spirit despite the staggering financial judgment against him, urged followers not only to take the supplements every day but also to use the empty bottles to decorate their Christmas trees.

“Last night I showed you how to put one together,” he said on Wednesday’s show, holding up a Balance of Nature bottle with a wire hook inserted into the top. “This one’s going on the tree now. I’m going to have two on my tree!”

Not only are they “wonderful as a stocking stuffer,” he said, but all purchases of the supplement “help me fight the traitors.”

 

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4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

New York's homestead law protects only 75-150k of equity.

And yeah, there's a huge chance the defamation debt will be non-dischargeable. It has to be found to be malicious and willful, and here the court's default judgment, which probably does not include such findings, may mean that it is.  But Jones's judgments were defaults, also, and found to be willful and malicious.

I just read that it is in fact non-dischargeable.  Additionally, Rudy has to put up a bond (full amount, haha) if he wants to hold up collection efforts during any appeal.  The judge green-lit them to start collection efforts immediately, in short.   

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Bankruptcy attorney takes a case in which his client is trying to use bankruptcy to avoid paying their prior lawyers. I know the bankruptcy attorneys fee claim gets priority but still lulz. Rudy knows damn well he can’t get a discharge of the big judgment. Just a delay tactic. If it was a common debtor abusing the system like this he’d be sanctioned but he’s famous and nothing matters anymore. 

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$500mm in debts?  So personal debts on real estate and legal 'n shit...$25mm tops.  Another $300mm in lawsuits, okay.  Maybe some professional debts he took out in his own on full recourse for offices or whatever the fuck...maybe another $25mm.  That still leaves $150mm.  Did be book the Philadelphia Four Seasons Hotel for a press conference he eventually had at the Four Seasons Landscaping Company and then accidentally try to buy the Four Seasons Landscaping Company for $150,000 but actually bought the Four Seasons Hotel for $150mm.  

This shit is out a fucking Twilight Zone episode.  

He kinda fucked up his primary launch back in 07/08 for POTUS, but nothing insurmountable.  He could have still run again in 2012 against Obama or 2016 against Hillary (which would have been an interesting race).  But then he just goes kinda insane and hitches his wagon to Trump for no apparent reason other than to rack up debt?  Most of these guys were trying to use Trump as a puppet to achieve other means but Trump used Rudy as his puppet for basically just shitty legal advice?  This will be unpacked in law school 2L classes for decades.  How bizarre.  

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20 hours ago, BamaATL said:

I just read that it is in fact non-dischargeable.  Additionally, Rudy has to put up a bond (full amount, haha) if he wants to hold up collection efforts during any appeal.  The judge green-lit them to start collection efforts immediately, in short.   

Well, dischargeability in this case has to be ruled upon by the bankruptcy judge after objection to discharge by all of the defamation plaintiffs (there's about half a dozen) and a finding that the damages are the result of willful and malicious conduct.  And, those defamation plaintiffs that don't have judgments already may have to try their cases in bankruptcy court, without a jury (Smartmatic, Dominion, Coomer, etc.).

It's fairly likely that he will be denied discharge on the Freeman case, but it's not something you can just say "it's non-dischargeable," period.

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7 hours ago, 'stache said:

Bankruptcy attorney takes a case in which his client is trying to use bankruptcy to avoid paying their prior lawyers. I know the bankruptcy attorneys fee claim gets priority but still lulz. Rudy knows damn well he can’t get a discharge of the big judgment. Just a delay tactic. If it was a common debtor abusing the system like this he’d be sanctioned but he’s famous and nothing matters anymore. 

Many bankruptcies involve stiffing lawyers, it's more common than it is rare.

And the dumb son of a bitch has plenty of other debt:  700k to the IRS, another 250k to NYS tax authorities, a $2M judgment to Daniel Gill, and a bunch of other unliquidated contingent debt to Hunter Biden, Dominion, Smartmatic, Eric Coomer and others.

The entire petition is here. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysb.319064/gov.uscourts.nysb.319064.1.0.pdf

This is not, in all likelihood, a substantial abuse case.

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8 minutes ago, NAVY said:

Did bankruptcy do jack shit to Alex Jones?

These conspiracy-for-profit fuck faces continues to run their mouths and sell patriot-branded bull shit

Well, it aint over yet for Jones.  The plaintiffs are free to pursue their judgments outside of bankruptcy and his corporate bankruptcies may wind up hurting him more than helping him by providing a stronger vehicle for chasing fraudulent transfers, as well as forcing the ongoing businesses either to pay up in part or liquidate.

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