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Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery


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https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/28/politics/abortion-bills-fail-nebraska-south-carolina/index.html

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Measures that would have severely restricted abortion failed Thursday in Nebraska and South Carolina, which both have Republican-controlled legislatures, a reflection of the growing unease among Republicans over the political popularity of strict bans.

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In Nebraska, a “Heartbeat Act” would have banned most abortions after six weeks except in cases of rape or incest or to preserve the life of the mother once a “fetal heartbeat” was detected, but it stalled in the legislature. A cloture vote to overcome a filibuster of the bill failed by a vote of 32-15, with two senators abstaining, including Republican state Sen. Merv Riepe – leaving the measure one vote shy of the two-thirds majority needed for full consideration. Riepe, a cosigner to the bill, had proposed an amendment to move the ban to 12 weeks instead of six weeks, but his amendment did not receive a vote Thursday.

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On Thursday afternoon, the South Carolina state Senate failed to pass the “Human Life Protection Act,” which would have banned abortions in the state, in a 22-21 vote with five women voting against it – including three Republicans. The bill previously passed in the state House and included exceptions for incidents of rape or incest.

In the wake of last year’s Supreme Court ruling overturning Roe v. Wade, many Republican-led states have enacted sweeping abortion restrictions. But unpopularity – demonstrated by electoral evidence – over severe restrictions have prompted Republicans to reconsider the political wisdom of enacting near-total bans on the procedure, and House Republicans have recently stepped away from pushing a federal abortion ban.

Republicans are becoming self-aware that maybe abortion is not the hill they want to die on.

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On 5/2/2023 at 1:38 PM, bolverk said:

It's about controlling women.

The goals are a bit more extreme. It's about dominating and humiliating women—enforced with codes of violence (forced births, denying reproductive rights, etc.). Patriarchy and theocracy go together.

Margaret Atwood saw it coming in the Reagan era. The Handmaid's Tale is the American prophecy. 

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36 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

The goals are a bit more extreme. It's about dominating and humiliating women—enforced with codes of violence (forced births, denying reproductive rights, etc.). Patriarchy and theocracy go together.

Margaret Atwood saw it coming in the Reagan era. The Handmaid's Tale is the American prophecy. 

I'd argue that dominating and humiliating them are other means of control.

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Republicans like raping children and getting them pregnant

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Audrey Wascome, who says she was sexually abused by a relative as a child and later was raped at 17, testified along with other survivors on Wednesday at the Louisiana’s House Criminal Justice Committee. Democrats had introduced legislation to add rape and incest exceptions to the state’s abortion ban, and even after hearing testimony from people like Wascome, Republicans voted them down.

Wascome told me in an interview after the hearing that it felt like an “openly hostile” environment. A man was standing near the witness table with a rosary, reciting Bible verses. Some Republican committee members got up and left in the middle of witness testimony. Other GOP legislators who did stay in the room “were just pretending that the witnesses weren’t there,” she said. “It was super disrespectful.”

“You have survivors describing their private pain and basically begging them for mercy,” said Wascome. “It just felt like a slap.”

Wascome says she noticed one lawmaker rolling her eyes and shaking her head at some of the testimony. “Even if you don’t agree with [adding] exceptions, there’s just common human decency for people talking about their trauma, and it was just missing from a lot of them.”

Wascome shared her own story of assault on Wednesday, telling the committee about being sexually abused by her grandfather for the first decade of her life, as her grandmother filmed the incidents. At age 17, Wascome says she was raped by an acquaintance and didn’t obtain emergency contraception before the 72-hour period had passed. While she didn’t become pregnant, she has since dedicated her time to becoming an advocate for fellow survivors, including for two 9-year-old girls who were both impregnated at age 8 in unrelated cases. One was in her second trimester, the other in her third; they both came into the hospital complaining of stomach pain.

“Neither knew they were pregnant, but how could they? They were still playing with dolls,” Wascome said in her powerful testimony to the committee.

Wascome tells Jezebel that not a week goes by she doesn’t think of those young survivors, wondering what happened to them. She says one of the children’s fetuses didn’t have a heartbeat by the time she came in, but that the doctor at the time refused to conduct a D&C and save the fetal remains as DNA evidence for a rape case. Wascome ended up arranging for the child and her family to seek care at a nearby abortion clinic, which, of course, is now closed.

She told the committee she was putting the right to her privacy aside by putting her story in the public record, in the hopes of “salvaging someone else’s life.”

Andrea Dubé is another survivor who testified at the hearing, telling the committee that she had a pregnancy scare after being raped, and if she’d been forced to carry it to term, she would have died by suicide. She also says she felt completely ignored by Republican legislators.

“It feels pretty crappy that I was inside, publicly crying and talking about killing myself while they were out in the hallways shooting the shit with lobbyists and pro-lifers,” Dubé told me. “They voted against abortion access for raped children but apparently couldn’t stomach our three minute statements.”

“It was emotionally exhausting to see survivors pouring out their souls and giving up their privacy when the outcome of the bill was obviously determined well before we got there,” said Morgan Lamandre, the president and CEO of Sexual Trauma Awareness and Response (STAR). “There was a total and complete lack of attention paid to survivors by some of the legislators, even when they were sitting right in front of survivors. It was hard to watch.”

Lift Louisiana Executive Director Michelle Erenberg corroborated accounts that most of the Republican committee members left the room during the testimony of patients, survivors and doctors. They only returned to the committee room to vote against the bills. She said her organization is “extremely disappointed to see that committee members have chosen to overlook the suffering of rape and incest survivors in favor of a cruel position endorsed by extremists.”

All five of the abortion-related bills aimed at softening the state’s abortion ban were scheduled on the annual “Pro-Life Day at the Capitol.” (All five bills either failed to get out of committee or were deferred.) Buses filled with anti-abortion activists arrived in Baton Rouge for the day, and in the capitol’s rotunda, Louisiana Right to Life served “Everyone Deserves a Birthday” Cake to visitors and legislators.

 

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5 minutes ago, Stilicho said:

Yeah. Little more to the story above.

Louisiana Kills Rape / Incest Exceptions

I thought Oklahoma was a broken hellscape.

Remember, Louisiana requires a digital government ID to look at porn on the internet.

https://www.cnet.com/culture/louisiana-residents-now-need-a-government-id-to-visit-porn-sites/

Which Texas is looking at, but has not seriously pushed.  Yet.

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"Three times in a row, since 2018, Republicans have been disappointed on election night in November, in large part because they lost the suburbs," the editorial begins. "More defeats Tuesday for the GOP in Pennsylvania, Colorado and Florida suggest the erosion is continuing."

The editors place the blame for the party's losses primarily on two factors: Its hardline stance on abortion rights and its continued embrace of former President Donald Trump.

https://www.msn.com/en-US/news/politics/the-erosion-is-continuing-wall-street-journal-editors-sound-alarm-of-gops-latest-election-flops/ar-AA1bmmDO?ocid=sapphireappshare

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Too bad the courts are already hack-stacked. There's an article in Rolling Stone -- paywalled I think -- that details the 5th circuit's shitty treatment of the lawyers defending mifepristone in court yesterday, accusing the lawyers of personal attacks on poor Kaczmaryk while being oh so deferential to the plaintiffs and Ho stating that they get to oversee the FDA. The quotes from the 3 hacktivists -- seriously the worst panel of the already terrible court -- are just infuriating. The GOP deserves so so many election losses for being an absolutely lawless party.

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Too bad the courts are already hack-stacked. There's an article in Rolling Stone -- paywalled I think -- that details the 5th circuit's shitty treatment of the lawyers defending mifepristone in court yesterday, accusing the lawyers of personal attacks on poor Kaczmaryk while being oh so deferential to the plaintiffs and Ho stating that they get to oversee the FDA. The quotes from the 3 hacktivists -- seriously the worst panel of the already terrible court -- are just infuriating. The GOP deserves so so many election losses for being an absolutely lawless party.

Perhaps the least respectful engagement I’ve ever had as an attorney with a judge was with a certain 5th Cir judge. And I know it’s a little thing, but it’s also a baseline: treat the parties and counsel with respect. You work for them, not vice versa. Most judges do a pretty good job of that. Yes, even some cranky and cantankerous federal judges ultimately do so. But not our ideologues.
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22 hours ago, Goofyboy said:


This is not evil or mean to them. Look at the responses… 99 minutes of life is better than murder, etc.

It demonstrates that the death of a living, “breathing” (tortured and ineffective as it was) person doesn’t matter. It’s the unborn life that matters. Once it leaves the womb, they stop caring. 

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That story was depressing as hell.  They literally created a situation where a completely unviable human being was tortured for over an hour and a half, because . . . whatever.  This is the kind of shit that has driven me from the church and just about slammed the door.  Fuck those assholes.

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10 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Just waiting for the story of a mother dying from having to carry a non viable pregnancy to term. I just hope it’s a family member of one of the lawmakers or activists 

don't be silly... those folks will be able to easily terminate a problematic pregnancy. only normal folk in these shitty states will be forced to carry.

also... these stories are horrible, nightmares, i grieve for these families... but let's not lose sight of the fact that a woman ought to have the right to terminate ANY pregnancy if she decides to (within reason, i.e., don't come at me with 'late-term abortions!!' horror story crap... those are extremely rare and are extreme circumstances, women having those have already had baby showers and decorated nurseries so fuck off with that bullshit).

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
58 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Saw this broken down. If every Christian church helped out and provided resources for 2 kids, they could help every kid in foster care.

Resources? Sure. Just don’t leave them in the custody of the Christian churches. 

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59 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Saw this broken down. If every Christian church helped out and provided resources for 2 kids, they could help every kid in foster care.

JFK Jr will return and run for POTUS before that happens.  Christians don't give a shit about any kids that aren't their own. 

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Same guy that ran the numbers for kids ram numbers for homeless.

Including All churches:

Each church would only have to help 1 kid and foster care would go away
Each church would help two people and homeless goes away.

It won’t happen.

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I was perusing the postings of some of the finest, best educated minds in our beautiful country and have arrived to paste them here.  Mild off-topic threadjack, but i didn't think these ramblings deserved a thread of their own.  Just ridicule:

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Should adultery be illegal?

12,223 Views | 329 Replies | Last: 11 min ago by Bob Lee
Should adultery (specifically, someone that is married having sex with someone they're not married to) be illegal? I don't think it should be, but I asked one of my friends and he said he wouldn't be opposed to it being illegal, although he didn't know what the punishment should be. What are your thoughts?
Human nature, people should be free to choose. Keep the government out of people's private affairs. Pun intended.
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First, rid no fault divorce. Make breaking a vow mean something. We have thrown out all virtue like integrity, commitment, and honesty for satanic (yes, I said satanic) libertine values.

Secondly, if adultery is proven, the assets and custody awarded to the innocent spouse should be whip enough. Prison or anything of that nature is redundant, and excuses the offender from their responsibilities to their children.

(Edit: just saw the reply, we need to embrace human nature, haha yes society should devolve into human excrement rather than hold to objective standards.)
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in a way it used to be , Being a philanderer or divorced carried a significant social stigma

Normalizing divorce might be as bad for society as normalizing out of wedlock children
A significant % of divorces start from somebody committing adultery
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If you married a girl from the south, you would be in trouble. The majority of southern girls know how to shoot.
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I say leave it up to the states. That said, I do think there should be severe penalties for adultery. There should also be significant reforms to our family law system to remedy the imbalance favoring women.
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No it shouldn't be illegal, but it would be socially condemned by a God fearing society.
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Adultery is very destructive to kids, to other family members, to their spouse. It is rotten act of selfishness. No fault divorce was and is a disaster. If a person is thinking of cheating and there are risk that come with it, they may think twice and work on the problems with their relationship or better yet get help.

There are cases where divorce should be granted but these days, people change spouses like underwear and the kids and the country lose. This whole thing needs to be reformed.

 

Edited by Bullneck
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Really good article, chock full of links to several polls, highlights a fundamental shift in public opinion toward increasing support for abortion around the country after Dobbs, including among even Catholics and Republicans.

Couple of short passages below but here's a free link to the full article.

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“While Roe was settled law, you kind of didn’t have to worry about the consequences,” said Mollie Wilson O’Reilly, a writer for Commonweal, the Catholic lay publication, and a mother of four. “You could say, ‘I think abortion should be illegal in all circumstances,’ if you didn’t really have to think about what it would mean for that to happen.”

Raised in the church and still active in her parish, Ms. O’Reilly, 42, embraced its teachings that abortion was equivalent to murder, as part of a broader church doctrine on the protection of life that also opposes capital punishment and mistreatment of migrants.

Her evolution to supporting abortion rights started two years ago when she had a miscarriage that required emergency dilation and curettage; only when she saw her chart later did she realize the term was the technical name for abortion.

“When people have the idea that abortion equals killing babies, it’s very easy to say, ‘Of course I’m against that,’” she said. “If you start seeing how reproductive health care is necessary to women, you start to see that if you’re supporting these policies that ban abortion, you’re going to end up killing women.”

 

 

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In Portland, Ore., Ruby Hill, who is Black, said she had been alarmed at the flourishing of the Proud Boys and other white supremacist groups around her. She lives not far from where two members of an extremist gang ran over a 19-year-old Black man with a Jeep in 2016. Ms. Hill, also a Democrat, said she was then redistricted into a largely white congressional district represented by a Republican.

The Dobbs decision, she said, made her start recruiting supporters of abortion rights among her friends, her grandchildren and their friends, and family members in Tennessee and California and Virginia over a weekly Zoom, “so they can convince people they know to stand up for more rights before more get taken from us,” she said. “If they got away with this and they feel that nobody cares, it’s more rights they are going to proceed to take away — civil rights, voting rights, abortion, birth control, it’s all part of that one big package. If you sit on the sideline, it says that you think it’s OK.”

 

 

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