UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate

[YGIFS 19443]

I thought you learned how to give handjobs at Jester in '85  

I hadn't been on the backside of the new practice facility yet (where pic was taken).  Behind you is this high-end cooling plant.  To the right is this badass new hoops facility.  To the left, you can see the continued expansion of the Innovation District (if you can pretend the Drum isn't there).  And then straight ahead is horribly antiquated Social Work, cold war swim center and fucking Jester.  I'm sure they find ways to shuttle the recruits past that shit.  

On Musselman.  Only cursory knowledge, but it seems like college hoops has more coaches (%-wise obviously) that have some NBA experience as well.  Just sorta 'seems' like coaches move between NCAA and Pro more fluidly than in college football/NFL.  Obviously, I'm just thinking about it in light of Musselman (and I think it's a plus for him) with 20 years in the League.  I like that he's "only" 58.  

I know he "dropped" into the upper end of college hoops at Nevada and immediately started kicking ass (including ours in OT in '18).  And he's look awfully good at Arkansas on paper.  I have no idea his style, recruiting, etc.  But some hoops folks I trust on here and in real life say he'd be a great fit.  What's he making about, $4.5?  

[JesusSweatDuck 17779]

57 minutes ago, Js1 said:

This. Trust CDC on hires until he gives us a reason not to. (Sark wasn’t his call)

He wanted Dykes when in hindsight seems pretty solid

[SL Xpress 7491]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I want to disagree with you, but I remember begging friends to go to Durant home games. 

Well, people also underestimate how fanatic Arkansas fans are when they’re good. Mostly because it’s been so long. They went through a series of abominable hires, really since Nolan Richardson melted down. 

[Frank Drebin 5359]

2 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

It depends on what you value. I never considered myself a fan. But it is true he took UT out of the dark ages of funding the athletic department with the creation of the Longhorn Foundation. Whatever else I despise about his tenure - and there’s plenty - I give him credit for that. 

You'd know a lot more about that than me.  I know finances are important.  I think Texas would end up as a wealthy program no matter who was at the helm as college sports evolved in the 80s-90s-00s-10s-20s.  But maybe not.

I feel like he was too arrogant for the amount of hardware our programs brought in, baseball being the exception.  I don't care how much money we make.  Most of the excess funds seems to make its way to sports I don't give a shit about (women's and olympics).  Does not seem to have helped all that much in the sports I do care about.  I'd like to focus on hardware first and money second.  It seems like hardware would lead to even more money. But when an AD brags more about funding and being the Jones while OU wins 20 thousand conference titles in football, it really pisses me off.

[David Dennison 17659]

13 hours ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

Man, when Mack and Rick had it rolling that really was the best of times

The aughts were a lot of fun.

Edited January 9, 2023 by David Dennison

[SL Xpress 7491]

4 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

You'd know a lot more about that than me.  I know finances are important.  I think Texas would end up as a wealthy program no matter who was at the helm as college sports evolved in the 80s-90s-00s-10s-20s.  But maybe not.

I feel like he was too arrogant for the amount of hardware our programs brought in, baseball being the exception.  I don't care how much money we make.  Most of the excess funds seems to make its way to sports I don't give a shit about (women's and olympics).  Does not seem to have helped all that much in the sports I do care about.  I'd like to focus on hardware first and money second.  It seems like hardware would lead to even more money. But when an AD brags more about funding and being the Jones while OU wins 20 thousand conference titles in football, it really pisses me off.

Well, that gets into what my criticisms are of him, which are legion. I was simply pointing out the one thing he did which I can compliment. 

And we can talk about the inevitability of all kinds of events in history in hindsight, but someone still had to go out and do them the one time they get credit for it. UT athletic department funding was in the dark ages for a variety of reasons. He brought it into the modern era and even started stretching the boundaries of what a college could do in terms of commercializing the athletic department to raise even more funds. And if you're reading into that a veiled critique, you'd be correct.

By biggest issue with Deloss Dodd's athletic department can be boiled down to a single phrase I used to use all the time 20 years ago. Our athletic department wants the football team to win some games so they can go out and raise more money, rather than the other way around. And that was most definitely a problem from my perspective. 

[realgreggym 830]

On 1/7/2023 at 8:12 PM, shadow_operative said:

too late to edit, but i'll add this: 

i still had respect for DD and everything he did for the program. bill little on the other hand? i'll put it to you this way: Deloss was Alliser Thorne; Bill Little was Janos Slynt. just a fat, sniveling, gremlin troll of a sycophant. fuck him. 

What a fucking idiot you are. You're nothing but a punk t shirt fan while Bill was a great longhorn.

[Sbbruin 21567]

On 1/7/2023 at 12:37 PM, jimmyjazz said:

Thanks for the history lesson.  Not every coach weighs history the way you apparently do.  Pulling a Cronin from UCLA is a lot different than pulling a Self from Kansas.  Most likely Cronin wouldn't be interested, but it's not as if there are no factors in favor of UT over UCLA.

There is really no world in which Cronin would pick the Longhorn job over the UCLA job.

[Sbbruin 21567]

On 3/31/2021 at 8:29 AM, Hornlover said:

Do y'all remember when Rick Barnes and Jamie Dixon both turned down UCLA, and they had to scramble and settle for Cronin? 

SC settled on Pete Carroll after numerous rejections.  Sometimes it just works out 

[Fletch 5791]

5 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

There is really no world in which Cronin would pick the Longhorn job over the UCLA job.

Yeah? Well, fuck you

[ztejas 42744]

7 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

There is really no world in which Cronin would pick the Longhorn job over the UCLA job.

I don't know if that's true or not but I don't think UCLA is a life gig. 

[89Horn 1475]

7 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

There is really no world in which Cronin would pick the Longhorn job over the UCLA job.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  But, sometimes you gotta roll with the changes.  So, you never know.

[Frank Drebin 5359]

8 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

Well, that gets into what my criticisms are of him, which are legion. I was simply pointing out the one thing he did which I can compliment. 

And we can talk about the inevitability of all kinds of events in history in hindsight, but someone still had to go out and do them the one time they get credit for it. UT athletic department funding was in the dark ages for a variety of reasons. He brought it into the modern era and even started stretching the boundaries of what a college could do in terms of commercializing the athletic department to raise even more funds. And if you're reading into that a veiled critique, you'd be correct.

By biggest issue with Deloss Dodd's athletic department can be boiled down to a single phrase I used to use all the time 20 years ago. Our athletic department wants the football team to win some games so they can go out and raise more money, rather than the other way around. And that was most definitely a problem from my perspective. 

I think your last paragraph is spot on and articulates my frustration with the Deloss era AD. Lots of missed opportunities.  And so, so much waste and administrative bloat.

[Red Five 40108]

8 hours ago, realgreggym said:

What a fucking idiot you are. You're nothing but a punk t shirt fan while Bill was a great longhorn.

I could use a ride on the ol' Dreamwagon right about now. 

[South Austin 51409]

8 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

There is really no world in which Cronin would pick the Longhorn job over the UCLA job.

There is really no world in which UCLA loses to Pitt in the Tony the Tiger Sun Bowl.

[ClubWhatever 12066]

There's a world in which California falls into the sea.  Mick Cronin RIP in that world.

[cochamps 1866]

2 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

I think your last paragraph is spot on and articulates my frustration with the Deloss era AD. Lots of missed opportunities.  And so, so much waste and administrative bloat.

Most likely forget that DeLoss first major moves at UT were to fire Abe Lemons and hire Boob Weltlich.  I haven't forgotten, and I still have contempt for him.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

Id hire Dodds to run a sports investment firm. 

[Hookem2147 20811]

[nycHorn 2929]

[ztejas 42744]

If you hire Cal you need to be damn sure that he's going to do a better job at Texas than he's done at UK the past few years. I do believe it could be as simple as a change of scenery for him, though. 

[hobbes2702 12481]

10 hours ago, realgreggym said:

What a fucking idiot you are. You're nothing but a punk t shirt fan while Bill was a great longhorn.

I didn’t have stanning for Bill Little on my bingo card. 
You continue to prove that you’re a dickhead and apparently are a fan of other dickheads

[Js1 82355]

I don't really want the guy Kentucky is tired of.  But that's just me. 

[hobbes2702 12481]

I mean he’s only lost in the first round of the tourney once since coming to UK and has only won fewer than 25 games twice.

I’ve said several times that he wouldn’t be my choice but come on. Everyone needs to get a grip about Cal. There simply are very very very few coaches who can show that much consistent success at big programs. Yea he out talents people but if we win 25 games a year, with a bunch of talent every year, then that puts us in a pretty good position to have some chances in the tourney.

Simply put, there is a zero percent chance that Cal would be a flop here. He may not take us to national titles (but he might), but he would certainly have us as a consistent top 10ish team. If we hire Muss over Cal than that’s great, if we hire some up and comer over Cal that is fucking moronic.

[hobbs 238]

Saw something upthread about Drew.  I'm sure it's just one of these media clowns spewing names, but hell no. 

Never been impressed with his coaching and there's a reason Barnes hated his slimy ass...he's a pos hack m'fer from Baylor.  No f'in thanks.

[ztejas 42744]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I don't really want the guy Kentucky is tired of.  But that's just me. 

I'm not sure I do either but this would be the argument. Since 2017 he's gone: EE, SS, EE, won the SEC (tourney cancelled), missed tourney (covid asterisk), 2nd in SEC, loss in first round as a 2 seed, and then whatever this season is.

So, more good than bad, but it doesn't appear to be trending all that well. 

Again, you'd have to bank on either:

- he needs a change of scenery 

or

- he's just had a couple off years and a "shit happens" loss in the tourney. 

[ztejas 42744]

1 minute ago, hobbs said:

Never been impressed with his coaching

I don't love Scott Drew but c'mon man. You weren't impressed when they whipped everyone's ass to win a national title?

[CTC2 2626]

10 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I mean he’s only lost in the first round of the tourney once since coming to UK and has only won fewer than 25 games twice.

I’ve said several times that he wouldn’t be my choice but come on. Everyone needs to get a grip about Cal. There simply are very very very few coaches who can show that much consistent success at big programs. Yea he out talents people but if we win 25 games a year, with a bunch of talent every year, then that puts us in a pretty good position to have some chances in the tourney.

Simply put, there is a zero percent chance that Cal would be a flop here. He may not take us to national titles (but he might), but he would certainly have us as a consistent top 10ish team. If we hire Muss over Cal than that’s great, if we hire some up and comer over Cal that is fucking moronic.

Am I just dreaming that I read somewhere after Beard was hired that Texas had put out some feelers to him and that the price tag was Jimbo Fisher high?

[hobbes2702 12481]

4 minutes ago, CTC2 said:

Am I just dreaming that I read somewhere after Beard was hired that Texas had put out some feelers to him and that the price tag was Jimbo Fisher high?

He makes 10m a year at Kentucky so probably 

[MoJames 8230]

18 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

There’s no way Texas outbids Arkansas for their basketball coach. They value the sport way more than Texas, and they have several big money donors funding it. I bet he can get a big pay raise out of it, though. 

Yeah but it'd be amazing just to see the response of @Lowcountry Hog

[shadow_operative 15931]

7 minutes ago, CTC2 said:

Am I just dreaming that I read somewhere after Beard was hired that Texas had put out some feelers to him and that the price tag was Jimbo Fisher high?

i've heard that. Cal was interested in the Texas job, but only for an obscene raise. still, if that rumor is true then he's already expressed interest in the job, and the job is now open. things could get interesting.

Edited January 9, 2023 by shadow_operative

[hobbs 238]

5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I don't love Scott Drew but c'mon man. You weren't impressed when they whipped everyone's ass to win a national title?

Maybe I'm crazy, but I really wasn't impressed with him as a coach, even though that was an absolutely great/loaded team.

That said, I admit that my utter hate for Baylor is probably clouding my judgment.  Fuck Baylor.

[ztejas 42744]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

He makes 10m a year at Kentucky so probably 

Not quite. The buyout would be a mess though unless UK was willing to negotiate (which they might be at this point).

The 10-year deal officially signed later that spring was worth a total of $86 million, with compensation of $8 million per year for the next two seasons, $8.5 million from the 2021-22 through the 2024-25 seasons, and $9 million for the final four seasons of the agreement, which extended through the 2028-29 campaign.

[jimmyjazz 45055]

Here's how I see Cal:

Pro:  his slimy cheating nature is not such an issue in the age of NIL

Con:  he's a slimy cheat, he'll just find other things to cheat about

 

Con:  he's 63 and seemingly burnt out

 

It would be cool to see teams loaded with 1st round talent, though.

[realgreggym 830]

52 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I mean he’s only lost in the first round of the tourney once since coming to UK and has only won fewer than 25 games twice.

I’ve said several times that he wouldn’t be my choice but come on. Everyone needs to get a grip about Cal. There simply are very very very few coaches who can show that much consistent success at big programs. Yea he out talents people but if we win 25 games a year, with a bunch of talent every year, then that puts us in a pretty good position to have some chances in the tourney.

Simply put, there is a zero percent chance that Cal would be a flop here. He may not take us to national titles (but he might), but he would certainly have us as a consistent top 10ish team. If we hire Muss over Cal than that’s great, if we hire some up and comer over Cal that is fucking moronic.

With all of talent, if I remember correctly, he didn't even make the tournament one year and maybe you don't remember that those 2 championships at UMass and Memphis were vacated and at UK, Calipari is on the same level as Guy Lewis and John Thompson. And I have no problems if CDC signs a younger up in coming coach. 

[Js1 82355]

8 minutes ago, realgreggym said:

With all of talent, if I remember correctly, he didn't even make the tournament one year and maybe you don't remember that those 2 championships at UMass and Memphis were vacated and at UK, Calipari is on the same level as Guy Lewis and John Thompson. And I have no problems if CDC signs a younger up in coming coach. 

I honestly prefer it. I don't want a mid-60s coach who looks burnt out and runs a shitty offense at one of the most resource, talent and history-rich basketball schools in the country. 

You can say "maybe he needs a change of scenery" but what if he doesn't and we just blow tens of millions on Cal with no results?  Texas has so much momentum right now - this hire has to be right, and i prefer someone young enough to build a monster of a program for 15-20 years. 

[Teryor 4386]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Not quite. The buyout would be a mess though unless UK was willing to negotiate (which they might be at this point).

The 10-year deal officially signed later that spring was worth a total of $86 million, with compensation of $8 million per year for the next two seasons, $8.5 million from the 2021-22 through the 2024-25 seasons, and $9 million for the final four seasons of the agreement, which extended through the 2028-29 campaign.

I am absolutely not advocating for Cal, but doesn't he have a Jimbo contract where he's owed everything if he's fired but doesn't have a buyout if he leaves? I remember that being part of the discussion during the last search

[Pancho 41819]

I have no connections whatsoever. With that said, I’m calling bullshit on Texas contacting Cal. That just doesn’t sound like CDC. Not only that, there are no leaks from Bellmont anymore since CDC arrived. 

I would not be surprised if Cal’s people reached out to Texas, but at this stage, Texas isn’t reaching out to anyone in January. I would think January/February is where CDC is making his list.

[JesusSweatDuck 17779]

7 hours ago, Fletch said:

Yeah? Well, fuck you

 

 

[TxTower 648]

i've heard that. Cal was interested in the Texas job, but only for an obscene raise. still, if that rumor is true then he's already expressed interest in the job, and the job is now open. things could get interesting.

Do not want.

[shadow_operative 15931]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

this hire has to be right, and i prefer someone young enough to build a monster of a program for 15-20 years. 

yeah me too, but those guys aren't out there and available. that's why the beard hire was such a coup. he was the one guy who fit that mold, and we got him. now we have to replace him. i'd much rather take Cal for five years while we search for the next chris beard than to roll the dice on somebody unproven. the last time we did that we got Shaka. assume Oats, Lloyd, Musselman, and Cronin stay put. who else is out there, available, and fit to coach Texas that you'd take over Coach Cal? 

[Nivek 16643]

Hire Chris Beard.

[ztejas 42744]

1 minute ago, shadow_operative said:

i'd much rather take Cal for five years while we search for the next chris beard than to roll the dice on somebody unproven.

Yep.

[shadow_operative 15931]

and again, i don't want Coach Cal, but the way people in this thread are talking about him you'd think he was shaka smart. do we want Cal? no. is he a better hire than probably 95% of available candidates? yes. 

let's get this debate clear right now: this is not a case of "people who don't want to hire Coach Cal" debating people who do want him hired; this is a case of "people who'd rather hire mizzou'a coach or UNT's coach than Coach Cal", debating those of us who think that's absolutely crazy. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by shadow_operative

[Pancho 41819]

Yes, if Cal is available (and the only one available) you have to say yes.

I do not think we’d pay him what Kentucky is paying him. It makes sense his people would reach out to CDC (not the other way around, not right now) and I’m betting he’s saying he’d come here for definitely less than what he’s making at UK

[Burt Macklin 18960]

8 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

yeah me too, but those guys aren't out there and available. that's why the beard hire was such a coup. he was the one guy who fit that mold, and we got him. now we have to replace him. i'd much rather take Cal for five years while we search for the next chris beard than to roll the dice on somebody unproven. the last time we did that we got Shaka. assume Oats, Lloyd, Musselman, and Cronin stay put. who else is out there, available, and fit to coach Texas that you'd take over Coach Cal? 

 

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Yes, if Cal is available (and the only one available) you have to say yes.

I do not think we’d pay him what Kentucky is paying him. It makes sense his people would reach out to CDC (not the other way around, not right now) and I’m betting he’s saying he’d come here for definitely less than what he’s making at UK

I'm curious how much it would take to get him. I can't see us matching what he gets paid at Kentucky, but he'd definitely have to make more than Sark. I guess a lot of it depends on how bad he wants out there, and how high his view is of the Texas Basketball program. 

[NoName 16196]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Texas has so much momentum right now - this hire has to be right, and i prefer someone young enough to build a monster of a program for 15-20 years. 

how many top say 20 coaches have been at the same job for the last 10-15 years?

i'm being lazy and pulling up wiki's list of current D1 basketball coaches: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_men's_basketball_coaches while it isn't perfect i feel confident with it with p5 coaches at least.

i'm only seeing

• 9/363 coaches who have been at their job 20+ years - 2.5%
• 26/363 coaches who have been there 15+ years - 7.2%
• 60/363 coaches who have been at their job 10+ years - 16.5%
• 140/363 coaches who have been at their job 5+ years - 36.8%

all of this = 223/363 coaches who have been at their job less than 10 years (61.4%)

i totally agree with you but what i'm asking making a 15+ year hire is unreasonable considering there has been literally one of those in the history of the program (Barnes) and only one other that was here 10 years (Penders)

 

 

[cafe society 2831]

Calipari's buyout this hear if UK fires him is $52m and it decreases by $6m/year.  I assume he has an equally substantial buyout if he wants to leave, although at this juncture I think Kentucky might pay him plenty just to persuade him to leave Lexington. 

[Sbbruin 21567]

6 hours ago, South Austin said:

There is really no world in which UCLA loses to Pitt in the Tony the Tiger Sun Bowl.

 

[Burt Macklin 18960]

8 minutes ago, cafe society said:

Calipari's buyout this hear if UK fires him is $52m and it decreases by $6m/year.  I assume he has an equally substantial buyout if he wants to leave, although at this juncture I think Kentucky might pay him plenty just to persuade him to leave Lexington. 

Not sure that's accurate. IIRC, Calipari can leave for little to nothing. He had a ton of leverage last time they negotiated.