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2021-2022 Astros Offseason Thread


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Wags is a no-doubt HoFer imo and obviously would have already been selected had he played in NY, LA, Boston, or Chicago. 

Also, pretty fuckin cool to get a Happy Bday cameo greeting from him. I hope he makes it, he was a force. Can you imagine him with these Astros teams of the last five years?

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17 hours ago, Gourmand said:

 

Wags is a no-doubt HoFer imo and obviously would have already been selected had he played in NY, LA, Boston, or Chicago. 

Also, pretty fuckin cool to get a Happy Bday cameo greeting from him. I hope he makes it, he was a force. Can you imagine him with these Astros teams of the last five years?

you could argue that the era of the absolute nails lock-down closer is already behind us.  a bunch of the great teams from the past 6-7 years won without one, and plenty of "great" closers have been wrecked by good offenses, ours included.  i like paying for good to great bullpen arms on short deals, but would be super pissed if we ever unloaded a big contract on a "closer".  i know we won't, so i'm not worried.

wagner deserves to be in based on most available metrics and comps.

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Agree that Wags should be in and agree that the era of the shutdown closer is just about over. 

With more and more managers not letting starters go through the lineup more than twice, and probably more managers trying the 1st inning opener, the way entire staffs are being managed is changing.  It seems to bode well for what used to be known as middle relievers.  They're already becoming more valuable than back-of-the-roatation starters.  If you have a stable of 4 or 5 relievers you trust who can all go 2 to 4 IP, what do you need a closer for anymore, especially when he'll probably break down in a couple of years?

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11 hours ago, TexArcher said:

what do you need a closer for anymore, especially when he'll probably break down in a couple of years?

or be replaced in big games after a rough stretch, likely by having the 8th inning guy go 2.  shit we pulled in 2017 with our bullpen will become the rule, not the exception. 

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12 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Agree that Wags should be in and agree that the era of the shutdown closer is just about over. 

With more and more managers not letting starters go through the lineup more than twice, and probably more managers trying the 1st inning opener, the way entire staffs are being managed is changing.  It seems to bode well for what used to be known as middle relievers.  They're already becoming more valuable than back-of-the-roatation starters.  If you have a stable of 4 or 5 relievers you trust who can all go 2 to 4 IP, what do you need a closer for anymore, especially when he'll probably break down in a couple of years?

The duality of this post, in box score form:

 

9AF3EEFF-E69B-4B4A-B92B-87F74FB439C1.thumb.jpeg.36715ef8cb3db5760fdd207a3f0bff48.jpeg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I've always loved that this box score features one of the most legendary starting pitchers to ever wear an Astros uniform, the most fearsome 7-8-9 lineup we've ever thrown out there.... and Pete Munro and Kirk Saarloos.

Ahem.  That’s Mr. PETER Munro to you, sir.

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11 hours ago, UTexasFight said:

The duality of this post, in box score form:

 

9AF3EEFF-E69B-4B4A-B92B-87F74FB439C1.thumb.jpeg.36715ef8cb3db5760fdd207a3f0bff48.jpeg

 

 

this was such a "WTF" to "huh?" and finally a "holy shit" game i've ever seen. my roommate at the time is a huge yankee fan (his uncle was billy martin) and i talked so much shit to him after that game. didn't see that outcome coming.  

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Bonds used steroids for at least half his career, and during his record HR season and many of the years he piled up stats and won Worlds Serieses. Altuve was part of a team that cheated one season, but went to 5 straight ALCS’s and he was cranking out hits and HRs at a similar rate every year. 

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I don't know, retirement + 5 years is a long time from now.  There were already articles this past season about how it wasn't that big of a deal and people need to get over it.  I guess the question is whether it will be seen as bad as PEDs.  The fact that Altuve didn't materially participate sadly won't weigh into it.

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11 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Bonds used steroids for at least half his career, and during his record HR season and many of the years he piled up stats and won Worlds Serieses. Altuve was part of a team that cheated one season, but went to 5 straight ALCS’s and he was cranking out hits and HRs at a similar rate every year. 

Ah yes, I'm sure the notoriously rational national baseball media will take this into account.

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6 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

Altuve is very likable.  If he gets 3000 hits he will be in the HoF.

Not sure this is the slam dunk it was 5 years ago, of course, Covid wiped out a prime year for Altuve, but he's been injured a lot in the last 3 full seasons, and at his current pace, he'd need 7.5 more seasons at 162 hits a season. He needs a couple of 200 hit seasons in his early 30s to remove all doubt, which means he needs to stop trying to pull everything into the CBs.

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On 1/25/2022 at 8:19 PM, Murfdogg21 said:

Bonds used steroids for at least half his career, and during his record HR season and many of the years he piled up stats and won Worlds Serieses. 

i thought bonds won zero world serieses.

On 1/26/2022 at 6:58 AM, WBT said:

I don't know, retirement + 5 years is a long time from now.  There were already articles this past season about how it wasn't that big of a deal and people need to get over it.  I guess the question is whether it will be seen as bad as PEDs.  The fact that Altuve didn't materially participate sadly won't weigh into it.

agreed.  it won't be the layup it should be (assuming he finishes his career on a normal trajectory), at least on the first ballot.  and to your point, more and more people from inside the game (players and retired players mostly) have been speaking out about how everyone needs to get the f over it. 

it might be worth him not getting in on the first ballot just to see the buildup of twitter support for him from his peers shouting at the yankee and dodger fans.

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there will also be the inevitable stat sheet showing career postseason homers, and like many broadcasters, people will be quick to point out, "but remember, there are a lot more rounds these days" as the leaders list shows manny, bernie williams, jeter, and a bunch of guys who played in twice the number of playoff games as altuve. 

yawn.

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4 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

there will also be the inevitable stat sheet showing career postseason homers, and like many broadcasters, people will be quick to point out, "but remember, there are a lot more rounds these days" as the leaders list shows manny, bernie williams, jeter, and a bunch of guys who played in twice the number of playoff games as altuve. 

yawn.

Like many broadcasters, people are morons.


and those guys won’t have played in twice the number of playoff games when he’s done. It’ll be close to the same…except Altuve will have twice the homers.

Edited by UTexasFight
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On 1/24/2022 at 11:45 PM, UTexasFight said:

The duality of this post, in box score form:

 

9AF3EEFF-E69B-4B4A-B92B-87F74FB439C1.thumb.jpeg.36715ef8cb3db5760fdd207a3f0bff48.jpeg

 

 

 

On 1/25/2022 at 9:39 AM, Chuckie Finster said:

I've always loved that this box score features one of the most legendary starting pitchers to ever wear an Astros uniform, the most fearsome 7-8-9 lineup we've ever thrown out there.... and Pete Munro and Kirk Saarloos.

I also love that Dotel had one of the rare 4 K's in an inning.

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1 hour ago, Gourmand said:

 

I was thinking about that yesterday. Straight math would say the chiefs should have done exactly what they did in fact do- 2 losses in the afc championship game, 1 super bowl loss and 1 super bowl win. 
similarly, the Astros should have 2.5 World Series appearances and 1.25 titles their last 5 years. We’ve overrepresented WS appearances and underrepresented WS titles, but as there is an odd number it would be impossible to be exactly on target. After 4 years we were exactly on target (1 win and 2 appearances in 4 LCS trips in a row). 
also, like the chiefs, the Astros seemed like they should have won 2 titles that they didn’t, making it seem like they’ve under performed when really they have done about what has been expected. 
getting to 4 (or 5) championship series in a row in some sport other than basketball is just really really impressive. 
much less impressive in basketball (imo) where the best team almost always wins the best 4 out of 7 series. 

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