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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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Posted
1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

How is she picking up these voters but other polls are not?

Because she’s not making assumptions about the electorate makeup or weighing the results. Collect, export, publish. Do I think pollsters are intentionally fudging numbers? No, but they’re massaging data to meet priors or assumptions. 

Also could be Iowa specific with their specific abortion ban. 

Also she’s not scared of being wrong, because she has a reputation. Her worst miss was 2008 (Obama +17 and he won +9.5)

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

How is she picking up these voters but other polls are not?

It’s more that she is not adding any weight to the hard data. Everybody is trying to find the magic way and the perfect number for how hard you put your thumb on the scale. She does not put her thumb on the scale.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

How is she picking up these voters but other polls are not?

Good question, but I think it's a justification for not overweighting Trump.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

We are all skeptical of Harris up 3 in Iowa, but her track record speaks for itself. She knows her state. 

 

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

How is she picking up these voters but other polls are not?

Yeah, we're skeptical that she's got the special sauce allows her to know what people are thinking. But it may be that the "balanced" prior voting strategies that many other high profile pollsters are employing don't capture changing attitudes of voters (reframing abortion as "reproductive health" has moved older white women apparently).

That said, even if she's off A LOT and Trump takes Iowa by 2, it's a great predictor of Dem success other places and in the Senate and House.

Posted
28 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

White Southern American Christianity was on the front lines defending slavery, Jim Crow, and now Trump. To take any position other than the one that results in the most regressive, stratified society would be inconsistent with historical norms. I don't know why this has surprised anyone. They have been telling us who they are for 200 years.

I know people like to pretend that it’s the people not the religion that are at fault, but when something teaches you to ignore all logical reasoning in favor of “feels”, that has trickle down consequences on the way you process other things in life.

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Posted
1 hour ago, TexasHooch said:

Something just occurred to me.  I've voted against Trump 5 times now- 3 generals and 2 primaries.  I'm getting more and more optimistic that I'll never have to do it again.

You won't have to do it again regardless of the outcome. You won't get a chance to vote against Trump if he wins. 

4 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

How is she picking up these voters but other polls are not?

They are, and they are weighting and biasing them out of the results set. The demographics being used and weights attributed to them are completely bogus. When every demographic you have is nearly 50-50 its no longer a demo you can weight with, yet everyone thinks "college educated white people" are a demographic. Its fucking stupid and the reason "Hispanic" vote has been perplexing for decades. 

Polls are bad, because we don't know who actually voted for who or why. Anyone can make up random shit and we have no idea who or what voted which way. 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Man, you need to date ladies that live in the FQ, Garden District, or Uptown.  

You're suggesting that anyone that posts here date women? Are you a traitor to your gender?

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Posted
1 hour ago, Valmy77 said:

I mean there always is that. Evangelicals are not real Christians in some sense, at least not this 75% of them that seem to be in the Trump bubble.

But it is still bizarre and blows my mind. It would be one thing if they were holding their nose and voting for him because they just hate abortion that much...but no. They see him as some kind of divinely favored figure. Despite everything.

26 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

White Southern American Christianity was on the front lines defending slavery, Jim Crow, and now Trump. To take any position other than the one that results in the most regressive, stratified society would be inconsistent with historical norms. I don't know why this has surprised anyone. They have been telling us who they are for 200 years.

Don’t count out the grifters pretending to be evangelicals or pretending to br Christians in general. I’m sure being photographed while putting a hand on Trump and “praying” for him is worth several grand in donations at least. It’s a wonder that fights haven’t broken out over who gets to touch Trump when religious leaders “pray” for him.

We know a percentage of those people are grifters based on how many have been caught in the past. We just don’t know who the True Believers are and who the grifters are.  Well, we could probably tell them by the houses they own and the cars they drive. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Also she’s not scared of being wrong, because she has a reputation. Her worst miss was 2008 (Obama +17 and he won +9.5)

if her model outweighs voter enthusiasm It at least tells us which side has enthusiastic voters.   and as Obama was the first African-American presidential nominee of a major party, I imagine that picked up more than a few people who wanted to appear more progressive but just we’re not gonna vote for the black guy.   If anything, that might be something she does not pick up.    But as all of this now has the Dobbs factor, everybody is taking a best guess. 

Turning down get out the vote volunteers seems like a pretty significant sign of enthusiasm to me

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Posted

Exit polls are typically far more accurate because most people don't feel like lying immediately after they cast their vote. This year even the exit polls will be wrong because of people wanting no backlash etc. 

I was at a Halloween party with 30 people I've known for almost 16 years. We all at least get together annually and have all moved various places and are in different places than we were in college where all the girls met waitressing at Grins in San Marcos. Grins girls and their husbands and the subsequent friends that got peripherally sucked into this group and we've never talked politics through more than 4 election cycles it's never really been a thing. This year even though everyone knows who voted for kamala no one said it out loud. It's uncouth, it's not socially normal to talk about who or how you vote. I don't have a problem with it, but many people treat it as a very personal choice that no one else needs to know about. 

this year you will have a significant number of people who have never voted before and part of the reason they went to vote is a commercial or a campaign to get them to vote which includes "no one will ever know who you voted for in the booth" 

the amount of votes against Trump by people who may even represent him in their social circles is going to be vast and measurable. The amount of votes for Trump amongst the prior Biden voters and Hillary voters is going to be bear 0 or unmeasurable. 

anyone who thinks differently is actually at odds with reality. 

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Posted

I don't know if NBC did anything wrong there but it is puzzling to me how many of Trump's appointments are still around in 2024. Any of Obama's appointments make it to 2020?

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Plenty of time left to energize and motivate.  Like 55 days. Sorry, I meant 55 hours. Hours. 

image.jpeg.1f20757f86df3f8b5366becf02982a24.jpeg

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Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

This is why you can’t assume all the new voters this cycle who were eligible to but didn’t vote in 2020 are Trump voters. 

My initial reaction would be the total opposite.  If you were able to vote in 2016 or 2020 and didn't but are voting in 2024 I assume you are fed up with dotard's bullshit and are acting in a way to finally drive a stake through his "heart".

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Posted
51 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Meanwhile:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh for fucks sake, nobody is stealing anything.  Your party and its orange buffoon of a leader put your electability along with democracy and women out on the curb like it was garbage and now you are surprised when it's gone?

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Posted
16 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

How is she picking up these voters but other polls are not?

Many pollsters try to solve the low response rates problem by over sampling certain demographics. But when you mold your sample to fit pre-determined assumptions, you'll be incapable of detecting changes in a true random sample. Their results are only accurate to the extent their assumptions are accurate. 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

We just don’t know who the True Believers are and who the grifters are.  Well, we could probably tell them by the houses they own and the cars they drive. 

So all of them, then. Anybody who chooses to take part in the worship of Trump is 100% grifter. But I consider organized religion to be the worlds biggest grift. Always has been. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Jersey Man10 said:

 

Not to undermine the schadenfreude, but isn't that supposed to start at 4pm ET?  I know people show up early for the old man, but I wouldn't expect the crowds to show up at the break of dawn for JD and Don Jr.

Edited by Gap03
Posted
Just now, Dahobbs said:

Many pollsters try to solve the low response rates problem by over sampling certain demographics. But when you mold your sample to fit pre-determined assumptions, you'll be incapable of detecting changes in a true random sample. Their results are only accurate to the extent their assumptions are accurate. 

These are the same things people asked about and were skeptical of in 2020 because her poll showed a very comfortable a trump win compared to the other polls. She was right, again. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

 

They can all pry the last bag of Cool Ranch Doritos from my cold dead hands

Still really funny to watch GOP all the sudden be 100% onboard with Michele Obama health initiatives for the totally wrong reason (Crazy ass RFK Jr)

1916.jpg?width=1200&height=900&quality=8

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Posted
31 minutes ago, Js1 said:

We just need him to be a D vote for majority leader, but he would be a headache. But he can be placated with good union legislation, veterans support, legal weed, etc 

Big toker, that Osborn.

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Oh for fucks sake, nobody is stealing anything.  Your party and its orange buffoon of a leader put your electability along with democracy and women out on the curb like it was garbage and now you are surprised when it's gone?

This is what I don’t get. How could they not think even for one second that maybe they are losing because they are just fucking assholes?

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Posted
47 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Try having those older white women  be a part of your normal dating age pool demographic when they trend Trumpy in our very Republican state.  

I have legitimate non-dirty old man reasons for sometimes dating younger women here.  All of Jefferson parish and most of Orleans Lakeview area are all very maga.  Which almost always means most of their friends relatives and neighbors are too.  After several experiments giving people the benefit of the doubt, I no longer do that as it is a waste of time.

That said, I hear the same thing from liberal women in very Trumpy areas. I dated an age appropriate lady from Tennessee for a while and she said she’s essentially not dating anymore because every man she meets is a huge Trump supporter.   

What I’m trying to say is we’re missing making money on creating a political themed dating app. 

You need to find you a fine ass sister and be done with it.  Your area is a target-rich environment for that demo.

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Posted
49 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

What I’m trying to say is we’re missing making money on creating a political themed dating app. 

 

Oh, it's been done:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/17/tech/dating-apps-politics-election/index.html

 

Quote

Recognizing that daters are increasingly prioritizing politics in their search for “the one,” many dating apps have introduced features that make it easier for users to match with potential partners based on their politics in the run-up to the election.

Tinder last month launched its “Take Action Center,” which introduced profile stickers that allow users to share whether they will be voting and the issues important to them. The most popular stickers among the new ones rolled out are “Hot people vote (I’m voting)” and “Voting for reproductive rights.”

Abortion rights are on the ballot in 10 states next month as the issue continues to be a major political flashpoint.

 

Quote

“We are really committed to protecting reproductive freedom because we believe this really impacts dating and relationships,” said Stephanie Danzi, senior vice president of global marketing for Tinder.

“It’s really about making sure (the app’s users) understand what is kind of at stake,” she added.

The “Take Action Center” also features a partnership with Vote.org, a nonpartisan voter registration organization, to provide users with election-related information such as polling locations and voter registration deadlines.

 

Quote

Meanwhile, OkCupid has added a dozen new matching questions that focus on voter behavior and help show users more compatible profiles. The questions, added in January, include “Are you voting in the 2024 presidential election?”; “What’s the most important issue to you in the 2024 presidential election?” and “Is it a deal breaker if your date is voting for a different candidate than you in the 2024 presidential election?”

These questions mark a shift in the app’s strategy which previously featured policy-and candidate-specific questions, such as, “Is climate change real?” And following the 2016 election, one of OkCupid’s matching questions was simply, “Trump?” Users could choose “hell yes,” “yes,” “no,” or “hell no,” and nearly 75% of respondents chose the last option.

 

Spoiler

Michael Kaye, the director of brand marketing and communications for OkCupid, said the new direction stems from a change in the way users talk about politics — from conversations centered around Joe Biden versus Donald Trump ahead of 2020 to broader discussions “focused on what’s happening in the world” ahead of this November.

“We really wanted to be mindful and careful with the questions that we were adding to the app and not adding any questions that felt like we were splintering people apart further than they already have,” Kaye told CNN.

While registered US voters are split near evenly between the two parties, according to Pew Research Center, daters on OkCupid tend to lean more liberal. But 44% of users who chose to answer a matching question on their political beliefs chose “other” among the options of “politically liberal,” “politically moderate” and “politically conservative,” according to OkCupid’s data.

The app itself has taken progressive stances on political issues and currently has an “I’m Pro-Choice” badge, which was first introduced in 2021 (OkCupid donated to Planned Parenthood as part of the launch).

“Our thought process with our matching questions … is if we’re talking about it with our friends, if we’re talking about it with our family or coworkers, most likely people are talking about it on their dates,” Kaye said.

Deal breakers

For Ashley Houghton, 29, dating someone who does not have the same political beliefs is “100% a deal breaker,” and when she was talking to potential partners on dating apps, she brought up politics “right off the bat.”

“My opening line is, ‘What do you think about these issues?’” said Houghton, who lives in California and works in communications, who said a match’s responses tells her whether she wants to continue the conversation.

These features build on what young daters were already doing to weed out potential partners, such as including “#BLM” in their dating app profiles in 2020 to indicate their support for the Black Lives Matter movement, noted Lisa Wade, an associate professor of sociology at Tulane University whose research focuses on undergraduate social and sexual life.

Wade added that young daters became more inclined to prioritize shared political values during the pandemic, when vaccines and health mandates became politicized and there were widespread protests in the wake of George Floyd’s death.

“For those students who wanted to be cautious about Covid, for the first time ever, they started asking their potential sexual partners — who they’re mostly meeting on apps — about their level of covid cautiousness … (which) had been aligned with politics,” Wade said. “They did decide that, even when we’re just talking about a hookup … that it mattered to them. Politics mattered to them in a way that it had not before.”

Political polarization in dating represents a microcosm of a larger issue: of people choosing to “isolate ourselves from disagreeable points of views” and being increasingly able to do so, cautioned Casey Klofstad, a professor of political science at University of Miami.

“We are able to tailor our daily lives — whether it’s media consumption, whether it’s the leisure activities that we engage in and … the people that we associate with socially or romantically,” Klofstad said. “The more that we do that, I fear, that deepens the divide that already exists between us.”

CNN reached out to Hinge, Grindr and the right-leaning dating site Christian Mingle but did not receive a response.

In a statement, Bumble shared the results of its own recent survey, which found that 48% of respondents think “it is important for them to talk about key social issues while getting to know someone romantically, including voting or social causes they care about, to gauge compatibility and shared values.”

The other side of the dating app aisle

The Right Stuff, an app created in 2022 for conservative daters, is also hoping to create an environment catering to shared values.

The app, co-founded by John McEntee, a Project 2025 strategist and former Donald Trump aide, features political prompts such as “Favorite liberal lie,” and “January 6 was,” which allows users to fill in the blank. But an executive for the app stressed that the app isn’t “overtly political in nature.”

Raquel Debono, the app’s director of marketing and communications, argues that on The Right Stuff, “politics is almost out of the way.”

“Our essential purpose on the app is to connect conservatives and because they’re politically aligned … the biggest filter is sort of done for you,” Debono said.

The app hasn’t rolled out features specific to the election, though Debono said that the team is considering sending a blast message asking users whether they have registered to vote. It is also using current political events to court young conservatives on social media, particularly TikTok, where it has 3.3 million followers — more than three times as many as Tinder and OkCupid combined. The Right Stuff currently has 70,000 active users, according to the app.

Debono recognizes that political concerns are important to daters, especially ahead of a presidential election.

“Political alignment is increasingly becoming a nonnegotiable factor for many people who are dating,” Debono said. “I think that an election year just sort of highlights that as Americans have sort of made political alignment more central to their identities in general and … just increases the awareness and visibility of sort of the divide in our country.”

“And not that that’s a good thing or a bad thing,” she added, “but it’s the reality we live in.”

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

Reads the caption: "Oh certainly that doesn't describe what he said."

Watches the clip. "Yep, it sure does." 

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Posted
52 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

How confident are we that Osborn will be a somewhat reliable 'D' vote in the Senate and not pull a Munchkin or 'Dangerous Creature'?

Not confident at all.  If he wants to be re-elected, I'd say he stays indy for at least four years and then make the calculation if he has better odds in a Republican primary as the incumbent or as a Dem/Indy in the general.  My gut is saying he'd tack right and go R, but it's worth noting that while has Fischer held that seat for 12 years, Dems held it for the 24 years prior.  It's easy to forget how quickly things can change.  But, even if he had an R behind his name, he's a huge step up from Fischer who will rubber stamp literally anything the GOP tells her to.  Voting for Party leadership is important, but so are the actual Senators themselves.   

45 minutes ago, Js1 said:

We are all skeptical of Harris up 3 in Iowa, but her track record speaks for itself. She knows her state. 

And she would need to be very wrong for this to be anything short of fantastic for Harris. 

Posted

https://www.wired.com/story/canvassers-elon-musk-america-pac-fired-stranded-michigan-mistreatment/

 

Quote

Standing next to her hastily packed suitcase in Michigan’s Macomb County Wednesday night, Tyra Muldrow had a bad feeling in her gut.

“I have this eerie feeling that I need to get the hell up out of there,” says Muldrow, a 20-year-old Black woman from Florida. She was in Michigan as a door knocker, hired by a subcontractor for Elon Musk’s America PAC operation to turn out the vote for Donald Trump in the heavily contested working-class suburbs of Detroit.

 

 

Quote

Muldrow and the rest of her canvassing group of roughly a dozen people had just been fired en masse, after WIRED reported that they had been tricked and threatened as part of Musk’s get-out-the-vote effort. Speaking publicly for the first time about her ordeal, Muldrow says that the canvassers in her group were fired with little explanation beyond a complaint that someone had spoken with the press. Many, including her, were still owed money. Muldrow had to find her own way home; others are still stranded in Michigan.

 

Quote

A representative for Musk and America PAC did not return a request for comment.

On October 15, Muldrow’s cousin Ebony Jones recruited her for the job, offering upwards of $2,000 per week and a return flight, per emails reviewed by WIRED. Muldrow signed a nondisclosure agreement the same day, and was then flown to Michigan on October 18 as part of a campaign for Blitz Canvassing, a subcontractor which had received more than $9 million from America PAC for presidential campaign canvassing as of October 29. Only upon her arrival in Michigan did Muldrow realize what this job would really entail: canvassing for Trump.

 

Spoiler

No one in her group of contractors—referred to internally as a “cell”—had a driver’s license. They were initially transported via Ubers, and were then driven back and forth for nearly two weeks in a pair of seatless U-Haul vans between their targeted neighborhoods, staying in a series of motels and AirBnBs in the Detroit suburbs of Warren, Livonia, and Mount Clemens. The three suburbs are in Wayne and Macomb County, the latter of which was the only Detroit-area countyTrump won in 2020. In Macomb, where Muldrow primarily spent her time canvassing, he got 53 percent of the vote—almost exactly the same level of support he earned in 2016, when he secured a margin of tens of thousands of votes in a state decided by a little more than 10,000 votes.

The cell was composed entirely of Black people, strangers from out of state who did not know each other but were usually forced to share rooms, according to Muldrow. According to a text message from Jones, Muldrow was promised $1.50 per door, and $2 per door if she knocked 1000 or more doors per week—an all but impossible number. Muldrow further says they were told they would have to pay for their lodging unless they met the unrealistic quotas. The contract the door knockers signed stated they were “expected to maintain a 17-22% engagement rate during the campaign,” a high target relative to the number of people who typically open their door for a stranger. Videos recorded by Muldrow show cramped living quarters and frequent bickering between members of the cell.

“Our subcontractors never should have driven their canvassers in a U-Haul van and those involved were immediately reprimanded,” Tim Pollard of Blitz Canvassing tells WIRED.

On Wednesday, October 30, Muldrow and her fellow door knockers were fired hours after the publication of the WIRED story.

At first, some people had trouble logging into Campaign Sidekick, the glitchy app used by America PAC for canvassing. There was confusion before they were finally told it was over: “Everyone is fired,” said Jones, who served as the door knockers’ manager, in a GroupMe chat, according to screenshots obtained by WIRED.

Jones did not reply to a request for comment.

Muldrow thought Jones might be joking about everyone getting fired, but some of the door knockers noticed they had been locked out of Campaign Sidekick, according to the group chat.

“I called my mom immediately,” Muldrow says. “My mom told me I was overreacting because, it's [my] cousin, so she was like, ‘Oh, maybe she's playing a joke on you guys. Don't take it literal.’ And my mom was like, ‘She sent you up there in the first place. You went with her. If anything, you would have your flight home through her. She's not going to let you be stranded.’”

Then, Muldrow says, Jones began asking the door knockers which one of them spoke to the press.

As arguments ensued, Muldrow started to fear for her safety. Muldrow packed up her belongings and called Connor Berdy, a 29-year-old political consultant based in Warren, Michigan and the founder of Vote For Change LLC, a consulting group in Southeast Michigan for his community organizing work.

Muldrow had met Berdy—who runs canvassing operations for school board, county commission, and judicial candidates—when, by chance, one of his employees struck up a chat with her while she was canvassing near their home on October 23. Berdy and Muldrow got lunch soon after, and Muldrow told him about how the door knockers in her group had been tricked, threatened, and driven around in U-Hauls to their door knocking locations.

Management had “clearly not prioritized the safety of the workers or the integrity of the operation,” says Berdy.

Berdy then arrived, and pretended to be an Uber driver to get Muldrow out of the situation. He had already bought Muldrow a flight back home to Florida, paying out of his own pocket.

“First I see Tyra on the side of the road with her suitcase and everything,” Berdy tells WIRED. “So I pull up, turn my hazards on, act like an Uber, and then right as she starts walking around, I hear someone say, ‘Where's Tyra?’ And, ‘Oh, that sneaky little bitch.’”

Muldrow made it to the airport and on to her flight home. At that point, she says, she had only been paid $69 for the canvassing job, for which she had been promised she could earn upwards of $2,000 a week. A Cash App payment she showed WIRED for that dollar amount was listed as “for Gotv”—the acronym for get out the vote. Muldrow says she texted Jones asking when she would get the rest of the money she was owed. All she got was a read receipt.

As of Saturday evening, at least three others from the canvassing group hadn’t received full payment for the work they’d done before being fired, according to screenshots from the GroupMe chat.

“Following the incident, some of the canvassers and contractors involved left the program, some decided to stay, all have been paid,” Pollard says. WIRED could not confirm that canvassers in Muldrow’s group had decided to stay, nor that they have all been paid.

The Trump campaign has largely outsourced its field operation in Michigan, a crucial swing state, to Musk—a move that has come under heavy criticism. Outside of Michigan, America PAC is a codefendant in a class action lawsuit in California over unpaid wages to canvassers and other alleged labor violations, a development first reported by WIRED. Blitz Canvassing has also reportedly had issues with the Campaign Sidekick app flagging door knocks as fake. In Nevada and Arizona, up to a quarter of the door interactions were flagged as potential fakes within the app, according to The Guardian. (“Sidekick was never expected to handle the auditing of America PAC’s door operation. The reason the PAC is confident in its numbers is because of the auditing procedures each canvassing firm puts in place and the auditing procedures of the PAC writ large,” a person familiar with the America PAC operation told The Guardian at the time.)

After she returned home, Muldrow didn’t think she was going to get paid what was owed to her any time soon.

However, on Saturday night, right after WIRED reached out to Jones for comment, Muldrow heard from her cousin for the first time since she’d been fired. “You did not get 1000 doors but to make this right and move forward we will pay you the $2000,” she wrote, according to text messages reviewed by WIRED. “The quickest solution I can think of is to send someone to pay you in cash.”

Later that night, shortly after WIRED reached out to America PAC for comment, Muldrow was pleasantly surprised. She’d just been paid $2,000 on Cash App. The caption?

“For Michigan Gotv 742 doors paid in full.”

A few minutes later, Muldrow got a follow up text from Jones. “Please let wired know that you’ve been paid asap.”

 

 

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is what I don’t get. How could they not think even for one second that maybe they are losing because they are just fucking assholes?

it has been my observation that they only hang around themselves.  We know they refuse to read or watch any source that is not Fox or Newsmax or social media like youtube or X.    I knew several rednecks from Mississippi who told me in 2020 that Trump red wave was inevitable because “Everyone at church and neighbors are voting for Trump”.  

That small town never-been-anywhere-and-met-anyone-who-thought-differently than me outlook is why they so easily buy the election was stolen.   We see them as incredibly gullible, and they see themselves as accurate predictors of the election based on what they know.

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Posted
Just now, Gatorubet said:

it has been my observation that they only hang around themselves.  We know they refuse to read or watch any source that is not Fox or Newsmax or social media like youtube or X.    I knew several rednecks from Mississippi who told me in 2020 that Trump red wave was inevitable because “Everyone at church and neighbors are voting for Trump”.  

That small town never-been-anywhere-and-met-anyone-who-thought-differently than me outlook is why they so easily buy the election was stolen.   We see them as incredibly gullible, and they see themselves as accurate predictors of the election based on what they know.

But that doesn’t explain why they don’t realize that most of the stuff they support is just fucking mean and maybe people don’t like it. 

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