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Posted (edited)

When you say "deliberately planned," in terms of capacity limits, do you mean reducing numbers of visitors to NPs so those in the administration can say, "see no one visits the parks?" or to reduce revenue received by parks, or what? These parks are such treasures that I would really like to take Elon on a tour of one this spring, especially when the bears and their cubs come out of hibernation. I think he would be dumbstruck at the beauty of one of nature's creatures...and I am pretty sure I can outrun him.

Edited by Mrs Whiggins
sorry, missed your response prior to mine...
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Posted
Just now, Mrs Whiggins said:

When you say "deliberately planned," in terms of capacity limits, do you mean reducing numbers of visitors to NPs so those in the administration can say, "see no one visits the parks?" or to reduce revenue received by parks, or what?

I'll ask after he's been fired or resigned or whatever, but this line in the article from a week ago above speaks volumes about what's already happening:

"Carlsbad Caverns National Park has cancelled its guided tours and announced that in March it will be ending self-guided tours."

If there are no guided or self-guided tours, Carlsbad is going to be effectively closed.  My kid's scout troop were going to be going through there this summer on their way back from Philmont. and it was on our list to this summer.

If they are canceling hundreds of the best camping spots in Yosemite, this is out to punish the NPS and or justify trying to close down parks like that.

Just now, Mrs Whiggins said:

These parks are such treasures that I would really like to take Elon on a tour of one this spring, especially when the bears and their cubs come out of hibernation. I think he would be dumbstruck at the beauty of one of nature's creatures...and I am pretty sure I can outrun him.

Spit Take GIF

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Posted (edited)

Will be interesting to see what is eventually done with National park land without anyone to administer/steward them.

The small government answer to national parks has been conservation easements in the past.  Encumber the land with an easement held by a conservation group that prevents it from being subdivided or otherwise developed and get a tax break for the difference in its “highest and best use” value (developed) and its value with the encumbrance.  Then you get to enjoy it as your own personal private wilderness with little/no cost of ownership.  There is no stipulation that it needs to be open to the public, even though the public are indirectly paying for it through lost tax revenue.

If it were up for auction and you had a serious tax liability and access to a few billion dollars, you could buy the Grand Canyon for several billion, put a conservation easement on it, get several billion in tax breaks and wind up owning it for treefiddy, more or less.

Great little vacation spot for a billionaire.

Edited by Goredho
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Posted
57 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

We were planning on driving to California this summer - we were going to be in El Paso for a wedding and decided we could extend it into a trip since it's closer to our friends in San Diego than it is to Houston, and it would be cool to hit a bunch of the national parks in California and then on the way back (Grand Canyon, etc.)

A friend of mine who works in for the National Park Service and who knew of our plans just sent us a message saying that he was told he can be fired or he can resign this week (I'm guessing it's a difference in benefits, but he didn't elaborate). Really sharp dude who is well-educated and well-connected in the business world and won't have a problem finding a job elsewhere - he's one of those types who got bored with the daily grind and changed things up after COVID, and his wife is an attorney with a big firm in California. He's not a park ranger, but he worked with the parks at the 35,000 foot level (I'm being vague on purpose). No idea if he's going to quit or make them fire him and take them to court, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter.

Anyways, he told us to go ahead and cancel any plans we had for visiting national parks this summer - he said any that weren't outright closed were going to be so understaffed that the number of visitors allowed in would be a fraction of their capacity, and he said it was all very deliberately planned, and the only thing that could stop it would be Congress.  

I am not going to ask him to elaborate until he is fired or whatever, but I trust him to know what he's talking about when he used the phrase "deliberately planned".

Musk has a hard-on for the NPS and some of the other agencies, and he is truly trying to hurt them as badly as he can, and daring Congress to stop him.

These government employees with the choice of resigning or being fired.  What’s the difference in severance, Cobra, etc?  What’s the harm until making them fire you?  Not like any subsequent employer is gonna see that as a red mark.

Posted
34 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I would like to see them try. No for real. If you want to get people to actually get out and protest, or even more involved than that, fuck with the national parks. 

We've been mostly going without a whimper.  That pattern will continue.

Nothing changes until there is an army of Luigis.  That's how these patterns work, throughout history.

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Posted
Just now, Brisketexan said:

We've been mostly going without a whimper.  That pattern will continue.

Nothing changes until there is an army of Luigis.  That's how these patterns work, throughout history.

Yeah, I don't see people revolting over parks. Ask the average american to name 3.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We've been mostly going without a whimper.  That pattern will continue.

Pretty much:

Democrats:  They've fired thousands of federal workers, broken up hundreds of families with ICE raids, formed a bromance alliance with Putin, and are shutting down numerous national parks. THE OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [posted on social media].

MAGA:  They've elected Joe Biden in a fair election after several federal judges, some appointed by Trump, found not a shred of evidence of fraud.  LET'S STORM THE CAPITOL AND KILL PENCE AND PELOSI!!!!!!!!!!!! [actually storms Capitol].

Edited by South Austin
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Posted
1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

We were planning on driving to California this summer - we were going to be in El Paso for a wedding and decided we could extend it into a trip since it's closer to our friends in San Diego than it is to Houston, and it would be cool to hit a bunch of the national parks in California and then on the way back (Grand Canyon, etc.)

A friend of mine who works in for the National Park Service and who knew of our plans just sent us a message saying that he was told he can be fired or he can resign this week (I'm guessing it's a difference in benefits, but he didn't elaborate). Really sharp dude who is well-educated and well-connected in the business world and won't have a problem finding a job elsewhere - he's one of those types who got bored with the daily grind and changed things up after COVID, and his wife is an attorney with a big firm in California. He's not a park ranger, but he worked with the parks at the 35,000 foot level (I'm being vague on purpose). No idea if he's going to quit or make them fire him and take them to court, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter.

Anyways, he told us to go ahead and cancel any plans we had for visiting national parks this summer - he said any that weren't outright closed were going to be so understaffed that the number of visitors allowed in would be a fraction of their capacity, and he said it was all very deliberately planned, and the only thing that could stop it would be Congress.  

I am not going to ask him to elaborate until he is fired or whatever, but I trust him to know what he's talking about when he used the phrase "deliberately planned".

Musk has a hard-on for the NPS and some of the other agencies, and he is truly trying to hurt them as badly as he can, and daring Congress to stop him.

I know nothing about employment law but I would prefer to be fired than resign unless there was a substantial $ package to resign. Perhaps even fully payable upon resignation. If Congress decides to not fund long term resignation packages, that isn't Elon's problem. 

I would also think long term that perhaps we will see a Dem president and congress one day that would want to make fired fed employees whole as opposed to those forced to resign. Maybe both would be treated equally but who know.

However we all know that many Americans live month to month, if not paycheck to paycheck. It's easier said than done to tell someone to accept a firing with no severance pay. (Not talking about your friend here.)

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Posted
1 hour ago, Parliament said:

These government employees with the choice of resigning or being fired.  What’s the difference in severance, Cobra, etc?  What’s the harm until making them fire you?  Not like any subsequent employer is gonna see that as a red mark.

I don't know - I was told Musk didn't have the power to fire people, but his incels are sure as fuck pushing a lot of people out and are going to cause the collapse of not only our national parks, but a lot of other things.  The Forest Service is getting gutted as well - Musk has not been happy with them.  Good luck to us when the next major forest fire hits.

Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

From a citation-, and likely fact-free anonymous substack.  https://amuseonx.substack.com/

On X, someone pointed out that if you bought a modest house in the DC area 30 years ago, you're probably a millionaire.

But whether true or not, the underlying idea, that federal workers other than politicians, are enriching themselves on the tax payer's dollar, is insidious and insane.

can confirm that if you bought a house in dc, or particularily Arlington, VA or Montegomery County, MD in 1995, you are in fact sitting on a giant pile of money.  

Also true of anyone who bought in Westlake or Rollingwood. 

Edited by Bateshorn
Posted
25 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

We can privatize these parks, plus sell off 1/4 of the land to give the .1% a bigger tax break!   

"1/4"

brian-cox-laughing-at-you.gif

You mistyped "100%."  Now, it's POSSIBLE that some fraction....maybe as LARGE as 1/4....will have a requirement that public access be allowed....for a sizable fee....to be paid to the new private owner.

So, you may still be able to access the Yosemite valley floor.....for the low, low price of $99.99 a head, paid to "ElonFunAmericaExtremeHardcore Parks Inc."

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Posted
1 minute ago, Ghost of NMAS said:

The only access allowed to the peasants will be as servants

No, they'll happily take your money.  Remember, human beings are solely sources of additional dollars to be extracted.  But they take that role very, very seriously -- if there's a dollar in Paul Poorboy's pocket they can vacuum out, they'll break out the Dyson toot sweet.

Posted

This is disgusting but funny so it's spoilered. Here's the text so you know what it's about before opening.

"This morning at Dept of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) HQ in DC as mandatory return to office began, this video played on loop for ~5 mins on screens throughout the building, per agency source.

Building staff couldn’t figure out how to turn it off so sent people to every floor to unplug TVs."

Spoiler

 

 

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Posted
2 hours ago, South Austin said:

Pretty much:

Democrats:  They've fired thousands of federal workers, broken up hundreds of families with ICE raids, formed a bromance alliance with Putin, and are shutting down numerous national parks. THE OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [posted on social media].

MAGA:  They've elected Joe Biden in a fair election after several federal judges, some appointed by Trump, found not a shred of evidence of fraud.  LET'S STORM THE CAPITOL AND KILL PENCE AND PELOSI!!!!!!!!!!!! [actually storms Capitol].

Watch AOC DESTROY Trump...please send us $20 to keep fighting against Trump's agenda! (Trump does whatever AOC 'destroyed' him over anyway)

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Posted

If the parks are cutting back on services or open dates, then the next logical step is to give them away to private industry who will pay America a small royalty but only after all of their "costs" are covered.

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Posted

i could provide witness testimony on two of those.  I texted my buddy the other day that i think i get about 2/3 of the stated mileage at highway speeds, and i was explaining the phantom breaking to one of my kids the other day.  the latter seems to be a new phenomenon.  i think it must be something in one of hte software updates.

Posted
2 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

We can privatize these parks, plus sell off 1/4 of the land to give the .1% a bigger tax break!   

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

"1/4"

brian-cox-laughing-at-you.gif

You mistyped "100%."  Now, it's POSSIBLE that some fraction....maybe as LARGE as 1/4....will have a requirement that public access be allowed....for a sizable fee....to be paid to the new private owner.

So, you may still be able to access the Yosemite valley floor.....for the low, low price of $99.99 a head, paid to "ElonFunAmericaExtremeHardcore Parks Inc."

2 hours ago, Ghost of NMAS said:

The only access allowed to the peasants will be as servants

 

 

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Tell me you don't know the people who use the National Parks without telling me you don't know the people who use the National Parks. 

The people who are into them, are REALLY into them.  It's not a small number either and they cross political lines.  Stranger things have happened, but I could see a critical mass developing around this and a whole lotta people outside outdoor culture saying, "Who knew?"

If they bother to gather and demonstrate to the level of even APPROACHING being a threat, they'll be mowed down, by Brownshirt Troops given full immunity for their actions.

So, what's the next foolish hope you have?

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If they bother to gather and demonstrate to the level of even APPROACHING being a threat, they'll be mowed down, by Brownshirt Troops given full immunity for their actions.

So, what's the next foolish hope you have?

Yes, yes, I get it.  My proposition isn't edgelordish enough for you.

I could see the brownshirts going after students a la Kent State where there is a political context. 

I think people showing up because they want to go to the park would go the other way.  I'm having a hard time seeing the brown shirts pulling the trigger there.  Or if they do, I wouldn't be surprised if the park users shot back.  

In any case, I could see a scenario where people were spurred into action by the NPS shutting down.  How it plays out is anyone's guess.  

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Posted
38 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Tell me you don't know the people who use the National Parks without telling me you don't know the people who use the National Parks. 

The people who are into them, are REALLY into them.  It's not a small number either and they cross political lines.  Stranger things have happened, but I could see a critical mass developing around this and a whole lotta people outside outdoor culture saying, "Who knew?"

I do know them. Been a member for a long time. Wife worked at them.

I am saying, it is not what is going to pull someone over who will put up with 10 dollar eggs, losing their job, etc.

Posted
52 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I do know them. Been a member for a long time. Wife worked at them.

I am saying, it is not what is going to pull someone over who will put up with 10 dollar eggs, losing their job, etc.

Maybe.  Or maybe that's the thing that pushes them over the edge?  Or maybe....

CRAkkxZoC4EhLMF0xrdwjjZVUWqwyZkfo4EF0jls

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

WaPo and Politico reporting that federal agencies have been advised that their employees don’t have to comply with the “What did you do last week” email.

I was hoping they would all respond with FU messages of some sort.

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Posted

The National Parks are visited by tourists outside of the U.S. too and the communities nearby will feel the economic loss in more than one way. Were it to go the way of the .01% private ownership, good luck with your little business being able to stay alive. Serfs serving the feudal lord don't make bank, they starve trying to please their liege lords and their whims.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

The National Parks are visited by tourists outside of the U.S. too and the communities nearby will feel the economic loss in more than one way. Were it to go the way of the .01% private ownership, good luck with your little business being able to stay alive. Serfs serving the feudal lord don't make bank, they starve trying to please their liege lords and their whims.

The suffering of peasants is what tells you the oligarchy is working.

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Posted
I've largely given up; but This is a hill i would choose to die on.
Rich bastards have taken most things, at least, the western US still had wild places to escape to regardless of your wallet. I'm recently post shoulder surgery so no biking or surfing for the next 9 months.  But i can hike and backpack. If that goes away this summer i may snap.

SEE yall!!!


SEE!!!
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