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Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?


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7 minutes ago, bluto said:

Not TOO well known, what’s the deal

The city took the plans off their web site early on during the “review “ process.  The whole thing was under construction within weeks of submittal with what are called rough cut permits, no one else can do that… A typical project of this magnitude would take 18 months to permit through city and county going balls to the wall.  
 

It was shifted by the county into a special third party review (also not done for anyone else).  
 

And I am pretty sure they got water and sewer from the city.  Not septic for a facility that size.  That would be a permit from the state of Texas due to its size.

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5 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

“Free speech! Oops, never mind. You’re fired.”

Musk: Censorship is bad! I have to buy twitter to protect free speech!

*Employees exercise free speech*

NO NOT LIKE THAT

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this seems like one of the most open and shut retaliation cases I have seen in a while, right?

No, not even close. A “retaliation” claim is only actionable with respect to certain protected activities: filing a workers comp claim, reporting sexual harassment to HR, that sort of things. It’s not actionable to “retaliate” against an employee for telling customers “yeah, our management sucks.” That would get a waiter fired at Chilis, and it would be legal.
Now, does this thoroughly and completely demonstrate that Elon is a hypocritical thin skinned pussy? 100%. He’s a joke. But these terminations are likely not actionable.
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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:


No, not even close. A “retaliation” claim is only actionable with respect to certain protected activities: filing a workers comp claim, reporting sexual harassment to HR, that sort of things. It’s not actionable to “retaliate” against an employee for telling customers “yeah, our management sucks.” That would get a waiter fired at Chilis, and it would be legal.
Now, does this thoroughly and completely demonstrate that Elon is a hypocritical thin skinned pussy? 100%. He’s a joke. But these terminations are likely not actionable.

Yeah it's not a textbook "retaliation" in terms of employment law.

It is retaliation in the sense of Musk being a thin-skinned pussy who doesn't handle criticism and is a huge hypocrite.  Bad PR. 

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Nobody reasonable is arguing with that conclusion. We’re mostly noting that when it comes from a purported champion of “FREE SPEECH!” across the board (that is, not in the state actor context, but literally in the context of people just venting to the world), it’s pretty fucking funny, and shows him to be what most of us knew he was all along: a hypocritical troll pussy who can dish it out but can’t take it at all.
Keep stanning for a pathetic bitch boy, it keeps us amused.
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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:


No, not even close. A “retaliation” claim is only actionable with respect to certain protected activities: filing a workers comp claim, reporting sexual harassment to HR, that sort of things. It’s not actionable to “retaliate” against an employee for telling customers “yeah, our management sucks.” That would get a waiter fired at Chilis, and it would be legal.
Now, does this thoroughly and completely demonstrate that Elon is a hypocritical thin skinned pussy? 100%. He’s a joke. But these terminations are likely not actionable.

Agreed. And this is how they get around it being retaliation (if that term even fit here, but as Brisket notes, it doesn't really): “The letter, solicitations and general process made employees feel uncomfortable, intimidated and bullied, and/or angry because the letter pressured them to sign onto something that did not reflect their views”

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1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

“Free speech! Oops, never mind. You’re fired.”

It's obviously not a free speech issue. Musk didn't suppress the speech. He just laid down the consequences for publicly trashing one's boss, as he should. Those idiots messed around and found out.

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34 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Nobody reasonable is arguing with that conclusion. We’re mostly noting that when it comes from a purported champion of “FREE SPEECH!” across the board (that is, not in the state actor context, but literally in the context of people just venting to the world), it’s pretty fucking funny, and shows him to be what most of us knew he was all along: a hypocritical troll pussy who can dish it out but can’t take it at all.
Keep stanning for a pathetic bitch boy, it keeps us amused.

This is a retarded opinion. I don't care if one likes Musk or not, but this isn't a free speech issue. The speech was allowed, not suppressed. It doesn't take thin skin to fire those dummies. If my employees did that, I'd fire them too. It doesn't even come close to making Musk a hypocrite. 

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2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Can you elaborate on why?

Because it hurt his fee-fees. Nothing like screaming "I am a small dicked, thin skinned narcissist who can't handle criticism even though I dish it out all day long!" 

We aren't allowed to criticize the ruling class.  You know this. 

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1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

Can you elaborate on why?

Because believing in free speech means allowing folks to say what they wish. But it doesn't mean that they can do so without consequences. If the speech is damaging to the business, it's a fireable offense. Open and shut. Non-disparagement clauses are probably in their employment contracts.

Now, if Musk deleted the open letter, sought to cover it up, didn't allow employees to chat via Slack, etc. THEN one could legitimately go after him about free speech. Going after his reaction to speech is a different thing. One can't run around screaming publicly about how the management sucks and expect for the company to be thrilled and just ignore it. No doubt the open letter writers are in their 20s. 

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1 minute ago, jkates said:

This is a retarded opinion. I don't care if one likes Musk or not, but this isn't a free speech issue. The speech was allowed, not suppressed. It doesn't take thin skin to fire those dummies. If my employees did that, I'd fire them too. It doesn't even come close to making Musk a hypocrite. 

 

4 minutes ago, jkates said:

It's obviously not a free speech issue. Musk didn't suppress the speech. He just laid down the consequences for publicly trashing one's boss, as he should. Those idiots messed around and found out.

 

Just now, jkates said:

Because believing in free speech means allowing folks to say what they wish. But it doesn't mean that they can do so without consequences. If the speech is damaging to the business, it's a fireable offense. Open and shut. Non-disparagement clauses are probably in their employment contracts.

lol nobody is saying it's a free speech issue - we're laughing at how elon wanted to buy twitter for """free speech""" because he didn't like how they were enforcing consequences for speech on their private platform.

He's a giant fucking hypocrite for someone who claims to be a "free speech absolutionist".

Stop clutching your pearls so hard that you think people are saying something they aren't.

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4 minutes ago, jkates said:

Because believing in free speech means allowing folks to say what they wish. But it doesn't mean that they can do so without consequences. If the speech is damaging to the business, it's a fireable offense. Open and shut. Non-disparagement clauses are probably in their employment contracts.

Like someone being banned from twitter for violating the TOS by inciting violence and insurrection?  That thing he's so big mad about that he decided to buy the platform to protect "free speech?"  

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41 minutes ago, jkates said:

This is a retarded opinion. I don't care if one likes Musk or not, but this isn't a free speech issue. The speech was allowed, not suppressed. It doesn't take thin skin to fire those dummies. If my employees did that, I'd fire them too. It doesn't even come close to making Musk a hypocrite. 

Ummmm....yeah.  See, the thing is, you don't get irony, do you?

No f'n shit this isn't a "free speech" issue.  That's kind of the point.  See below:

33 minutes ago, Captainant said:

lol nobody is saying it's a free speech issue - we're laughing at how elon wanted to buy twitter for """free speech""" because he didn't like how they were enforcing consequences for speech on their private platform.

He's a giant fucking hypocrite for someone who claims to be a "free speech absolutionist".

Stop clutching your pearls so hard that you think people are saying something they aren't.

 

28 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Like someone being banned from twitter for violating the TOS by inciting violence and insurrection?  That thing he's so big mad about that he decided to buy the platform to protect "free speech?"  

People say shitty things on privately owned platform, platform decides certain shitty things are bad for business, so kicks said people off the platform.  Those people are still free to say whatever they want wherever else they want, but they are no longer allowed "on the ground" of that platform.  Elon freaks out about all this, and cloaks himself in the golden mantle of "SACRED FREE SPEECH!"

People say shitty things about a company run by Elon, in their capacity as Elon employees, Elon decides that's bad for business and kicks them off the platform.  Those people are still free to say Elon sucks wherever else they want, but they can't say it any longer in their capacity as employees.  Elon thinks that's cool.

Elon is a hypocritical attention-whore turd, who attracts the worst fangirls in the world who can't grasp the laughable irony.  Elon is a thin-skinned hypocritical pussy who believes that "trolling is good for me, but not for thee."  Pick your narcissist autocrats wisely, fellas.  My recommendation?  Don't pick one at all. Elon's a turd.  A turd who has figured out how to make a buck when already staked with a buncha bucks, and who does so in fields that are new and exciting, but he's an absolute turd of a human being, and y'all's fangirling for him is gutbustingly funny to watch.

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:


Nobody reasonable is arguing with that conclusion. We’re mostly noting that when it comes from a purported champion of “FREE SPEECH!” across the board (that is, not in the state actor context, but literally in the context of people just venting to the world), it’s pretty fucking funny, and shows him to be what most of us knew he was all along: a hypocritical troll pussy who can dish it out but can’t take it at all.
Keep stanning for a pathetic bitch boy, it keeps us amused.

 

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Immaculate is a bigger piece of shit than the assholes he worships.  

Stanning? Worships? 

I’m on Pg 2 of this thread calling out some of his fraudulent moves. I disagree with Musk on a lot of things, I just think it’s funny how much he gets under your skin. 


I knew when i saw that news that this thread would be populated with posters upset that some people they don’t know, got fired by their boss because they talked shit about him publicly. 

Stay mad. Lol

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1 minute ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

 

Stanning? Worships? 

I’m on Pg 2 of this thread calling out some of his fraudulent moves. I disagree with Musk on a lot of things, I just think it’s funny how much he gets under your skin. 


I knew when i saw that news that this thread would be populated with posters upset that some people they don’t know, got fired by their boss because they talked shit about him publicly. 

Stay mad. Lol

I don't give a shit that Elon fired these people -- shit, most bosses would do so, writing the letter was a dumb move.  That's something I agree with him on.  We're just noting that he doesn't get to both do that AND claim to be "CAPTAIN FREE SPEECH ALL THE TIME EVERYWHERE."  He's pathetic, and so are you.

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Here is the letter [NSIAP]:

 

Quote

An open letter to the Executives of SpaceX,

In light of recent allegations against our CEO and his public disparagement of the situation, we would like to deliver feedback on how these events affect our company’s reputation, and through it, our mission. Employees across the spectra of gender, ethnicity, seniority, and technical roles have collaborated on this letter. We feel it is imperative to maintain honest and open dialogue with each other to effectively reach our company’s primary goals together: making SpaceX a great place to work for all, and making humans a multiplanetary species.

As SpaceX employees we are expected to challenge established processes, rapidly innovate to solve complex problems as a team, and use failures as learning opportunities. Commitment to these ideals is fundamental to our identity and is core to how we have redefined our industry. But for all our technical achievements, SpaceX fails to apply these principles to the promotion of diversity, equity, and inclusion with equal priority across the company, resulting in a workplace culture that remains firmly rooted in the status quo.

Individuals and groups of employees at SpaceX have spent significant effort beyond their technical scope to make the company a more inclusive space via conference recruiting, open forums, feedback to leadership, outreach, and more. However, we feel an unequal burden to carry this effort as the company has not applied appropriate urgency and resources to the problem in a manner consistent with our approach to critical path technical projects. To be clear: recent events are not isolated incidents; they are emblematic of a wider culture that underserves many of the people who enable SpaceX’s extraordinary accomplishments. As industry leaders, we bear unique responsibility to address this.

Elon’s behavior in the public sphere is a frequent source of distraction and embarrassment for us, particularly in recent weeks. As our CEO and most prominent spokesperson, Elon is seen as the face of SpaceX—every Tweet that Elon sends is a de facto public statement by the company. It is critical to make clear to our teams and to our potential talent pool that his messaging does not reflect our work, our mission, or our values.

SpaceX’s current systems and culture do not live up to its stated values, as many employees continue to experience unequal enforcement of our oft-repeated “No Asshole” and “Zero Tolerance” policies. This must change. As a starting point, we are putting forth the following categories of action items, the specifics of which we would like to discuss in person with the executive team within a month:

Publicly address and condemn Elon’s harmful Twitter behavior. SpaceX must swiftly and explicitly separate itself from Elon’s personal brand.

Hold all leadership equally accountable to making SpaceX a great place to work for everyone. Apply a critical eye to issues that prevent employees from fully performing their jobs and meeting their potential, pursuing specific and enduring actions that are well resourced, transparent, and treated with the same rigor and urgency as establishing flight rationale after a hardware anomaly.

Define and uniformly respond to all forms of unacceptable behavior. Clearly define what exactly is intended by SpaceX’s “no-asshole” and “zero tolerance” policies and enforce them consistently. SpaceX must establish safe avenues for reporting and uphold clear repercussions for all unacceptable behavior, whether from the CEO or an employee starting their first day.

We care deeply about SpaceX’s mission to make humanity multiplanetary. But more importantly, we care about each other. The collaboration we need to make life multiplanetary is incompatible with a culture that treats employees as consumable resources. Our unique position requires us to consider how our actions today will shape the experiences of individuals beyond our planet. Is the culture we are fostering now the one which we aim to bring to Mars and beyond?

We have made strides in that direction, but there is so much more to accomplish.

 

Let's do a deep dive to find out what exactly is fireable here:

 

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An open letter to the Executives of SpaceX,

Not this.

 

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In light of recent allegations against our CEO and his public disparagement of the situation, we would like to deliver feedback on how these events affect our company’s reputation, and through it, our mission.

This is pretty delicate and tasteful. It might not be a subject Elon likes, but it's neither beyond the pale to broach the subject nor distastefully broached. Nothing fireable here.

Quote

Employees across the spectra of gender, ethnicity, seniority, and technical roles have collaborated on this letter.

Nothing fireable here.

Quote

We feel it is imperative to maintain honest and open dialogue with each other to effectively reach our company’s primary goals together: making SpaceX a great place to work for all, and making humans a multiplanetary species.

Nothing fireable here, unless you're so sensitive that a weak implication of dishonesty or the lack of open dialogue is indistinguishable from a clear accusations of dishonesty and stifled discourse.

Quote

As SpaceX employees we are expected to challenge established processes, rapidly innovate to solve complex problems as a team, and use failures as learning opportunities.

Nothing fireable here.

Quote

Commitment to these ideals is fundamental to our identity and is core to how we have redefined our industry.

Nothing fireable here.

Quote

But for all our technical achievements, SpaceX fails to apply these principles to the promotion of diversity, equity, and inclusion with equal priority across the company, resulting in a workplace culture that remains firmly rooted in the status quo.

To fire someone because they believe this strikes me as a really poor business decision, and maybe even flirting with a violation of federal employment law. I don't believe this is fireable.

Quote

Individuals and groups of employees at SpaceX have spent significant effort beyond their technical scope to make the company a more inclusive space via conference recruiting, open forums, feedback to leadership, outreach, and more.

Nothing fireable here.

Quote

However, we feel an unequal burden to carry this effort as the company has not applied appropriate urgency and resources to the problem in a manner consistent with our approach to critical path technical projects.

Unflattering, but not fireable.

Quote

To be clear: recent events are not isolated incidents; they are emblematic of a wider culture that underserves many of the people who enable SpaceX’s extraordinary accomplishments.

Unflattering, but not fireable.

Quote

As industry leaders, we bear unique responsibility to address this.

Not fireable.

Quote

Elon’s behavior in the public sphere is a frequent source of distraction and embarrassment for us, particularly in recent weeks.

Unflattering, and it states the obvious. Did Elon really expect his public meltdowns not to affect morale and productivity? This might be the closest to "fireable" if you read this in isolation, but in the full context it's pretty clear that Elon brought these valid criticisms upon himself and also that the issue of the company's HR shortcomings is inextricable from the issue of Elon's public statements' impact on SpaceX culture and operations. Elon can't frame this letter as some kind of unprovoked attack, and for that reason I wouldn't call it fireable.

Quote

As our CEO and most prominent spokesperson, Elon is seen as the face of SpaceX—every Tweet that Elon sends is a de facto public statement by the company.

I'm sure the company's lawyers are mad about that part, especially if it undermines months of careful work trying to persuade important people of the exact opposite. But again it simply states the obvious. 99% of people cannot name even one SpaceX employee other than Elon. This isn't fireable to anyone with a lick of common sense.

Quote

It is critical to make clear to our teams and to our potential talent pool that his messaging does not reflect our work, our mission, or our values.

Nothing fireable here.

Quote

SpaceX’s current systems and culture do not live up to its stated values, as many employees continue to experience unequal enforcement of our oft-repeated “No Asshole” and “Zero Tolerance” policies.

Unflattering, but I wouldn't call this fireable.

Quote

This must change.

This call to action bolsters the argument that the letter writers were laying the foundation for an anti-discrimination complaint. If that is true, then it was risky and unwise for SpaceX to fire them under circumstances that appear retaliatory.

Quote

As a starting point, we are putting forth the following categories of action items, the specifics of which we would like to discuss in person with the executive team within a month:

These specific demands add fuel to the argument that an anti-discrimination complaint was in the works. 

Quote

Publicly address and condemn Elon’s harmful Twitter behavior. SpaceX must swiftly and explicitly separate itself from Elon’s personal brand.

Unflattering, but there's no way to address the discrimination issue without mentioning the Elon in the room. Not fireable.

Quote

Hold all leadership equally accountable to making SpaceX a great place to work for everyone. Apply a critical eye to issues that prevent employees from fully performing their jobs and meeting their potential, pursuing specific and enduring actions that are well resourced, transparent, and treated with the same rigor and urgency as establishing flight rationale after a hardware anomaly.

I don't see how it's fireable to ask for accountability by pointing out the existing accountability systems for the company's technical objectives as a helpful example for how leadership could be held accountable.

Quote

Define and uniformly respond to all forms of unacceptable behavior. Clearly define what exactly is intended by SpaceX’s “no-asshole” and “zero tolerance” policies and enforce them consistently. SpaceX must establish safe avenues for reporting and uphold clear repercussions for all unacceptable behavior, whether from the CEO or an employee starting their first day.

Nothing remotely fireable here.

Quote

We care deeply about SpaceX’s mission to make humanity multiplanetary.

Nothing fireable here.

Quote

But more importantly, we care about each other.

Nothing fireable here.

Quote

The collaboration we need to make life multiplanetary is incompatible with a culture that treats employees as consumable resources.

Valid criticisms are not fireable.

Quote

Our unique position requires us to consider how our actions today will shape the experiences of individuals beyond our planet.

Nothing fireable here.

Quote

Is the culture we are fostering now the one which we aim to bring to Mars and beyond?

Nothing fireable here.

Quote

We have made strides in that direction, but there is so much more to accomplish.

Nothing fireable here.

Elon fucked up.

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7 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

What labor law do you think they flirted with violating?

The article in the link provided by chainsaw breaks it down. Not gonna repost it here since it's already all written up there. Here's the link again though:

https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/17/23172915/elon-musk-spacex-letter-fired-legal-protected-speech-nlrb

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Can he even afford to buy Twitter at this point? 
 

eta I mean get financing. I realize he could liquidate assets to cover the 44B but it would be at a ridiculous discount. I’ve read he has < 5B in liquid assets 

Edited by Sawbonz
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The way spacex went out of its way to mis-characterize and mis-frame the employees' letter is the giveaway that they know their actions weren't legit.

Quote

“The letter, solicitations and general process made employees feel uncomfortable, intimidated and bullied, and/or angry because the letter pressured them to sign onto something that did not reflect their views,”

The letter made one person feel uncomfortable: El*n. His lawyers created a limp word salad to try to explain away their actions at his behest. El*n has tiny dick energy.

edit - I don't particularly gaf about the employees...I'm sure they'll be fine. If I had been among them I would have argued to de-personalize the letter. However, given their leadership, the likelihood is they were among the most productive and valuable of the company's employees, and that spacex is the loser here.

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1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Hard to play the victim card when daughter of the richest man in the world. Alphabet checks the box. 

Really?  I knew a shitload of children of rich parents who had a shitty life in every way BUT their parents' money.  Thinking that if you put "daddy has money" in the plus column means life is great, no matter what is in the minus column, is the kind of fucked-up thinking that this country is made of these days.

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Very true. I don’t know her life circumstances or upbringing, and having a rich father certainly doesn’t equal a good life. 
 
I do think there is an element of becoming a protected class when the current narrative is that rich + white = bad. 
 

 

 

Bill makes some good points here about regionalization 

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  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:


Should’ve gotten knocked up while he was still in California. Isn’t Texas child support capped at like $8,000/mo?

$9,200 a month. You just need to make more than $110k a year to hit the cap in Texas. I'm guessing it's higher in California.

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9 known kids so far. 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/elon-musk-secret-twins-neurolink-executive-1378918/?fbclid=IwAR2qfVEKl8RONphzSebwbyHXnFW15AYmuscGoi5CuSw7dMkeTMn1m050gVs

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Elon Musk had twins with one of his company’s executives last year. Musk welcomed twins with Neuralink’s Shivon Zilis in 2021, bringing his child tally up to nine known children, according to court documents obtained by Insider.

In April, the Tesla CEO and Zilis filed a petition to change the two children’s names to “have their father’s last name and contain their mother’s last name as part of their middle name,” according to the outlet.

The two babies arrived just before he and Grimes had a child via surrogate in December. The mother of the twins currently works as director of operations and special projects for Neuralink, where Musk is co-CEO.

The news about the richest man alive’s two children comes days after his 18-year-old child Vivian Jenna Wilson was granted a name and gender change in California, removing “Musk” from her legal name and selecting a first name reflective of her gender identity.

 

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Last month, the Tesla CEO was accused of exposing his penis to a flight attendant for SpaceX, his aerospace company, during a flight. The attendant was paid $250,000 to settle the case in 2018.

In March, Grimes revealed she had welcomed a second baby with Musk, named Exa Dark Sideræl. They call her “Y,” following her older brother nicknamed “X.”

Asked by Vanity Fair whether the two were still “together,” Grimes said at the time, “There’s no real word for it … I would probably refer to him as my boyfriend, but we’re very fluid. We live in separate houses. We’re best friends. We see each other all the time … We just have our own thing going on, and I don’t expect other people to understand it.”

 

Quote

Grimes added that they planned on having more kids as well. “We’ve always wanted at least three or four,” she said.

She later sent out a series of tweets stating that the two had broken up, but that Musk was still “the love of my life.”

According to Insider, Musk and Amber Heard, who briefly dated in 2016, may also have frozen embryos together. During the Depp-Heard trial, the boss of Heard’s sister testified that she heard from Heard’s mother that the actress was “in a legal battle with him over the rights to embryos they had created together.” She added: “He wanted to destroy them, and Amber tried to keep them to have a baby.”

Perhaps Musk’s next mission isn’t heading to space, but shooting babies out to singlehandedly change the United States fertility rate: After all, he has a chart of the country’s falling birth rate pinned to his Twitter profile. “USA birth rate has been below min sustainable levels for ~50 years,” reads the tweet.

 

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3 hours ago, Chopper said:

image.thumb.png.d7efe6dc023e60fc609bb4919f47224c.png

Shivon Zilis:

"She cares most about machine intelligence for good.

She graduated from Yale, where she was the goalie on the ice hockey team. She is a Fellow at the Creative Destruction Lab (a machine learning incubator at University of Toronto), on the board of Vector Institute for Artificial Intelligence and Alberta Machine Intelligence Institute, and a charter member of C100. 

She co-hosts an annual conference at the University of Toronto that brings together the foremost authors, academics, founders, and investors in machine intelligence. She was one of Forbes 30 Under 30 in and LinkedIn's 35 Under 35."

 

She's gonna fuck. Him up.

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  • immamac changed the title to Elon Musk: [Fraud] Official or unofficial piece of shit?
  • blacklab changed the title to Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

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