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Posted
2 hours ago, Iceman said:

I used to joke with my wife, as I would embrace her and kiss.  " Our boys need to know daddy loves their momma."

I was joking, as I was channeling my inner Gus McRae; but I also was not.  Boys should know their dad loves their mom.  It's important.

What goes on in other folks' house, I have no idea.  A big part of today, Father's Day no less, and my relationship with my sons, is the example I set as a husband.

op incest GIF

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Posted

Not to be a complete reactionary here. I think a big part of the problem is that we have as a society done away with male only spaces. And of course, colleges and workplaces and jibs shouldn’t be closed to women. 

But the pendulum really swung and any male-only club or activity outside of a few sports got smashed along with the patriarchy.  When you made those things and spaces transgressive, then actual transgressives like Tate filled the gap.

I was reading an article a while back about how some wives in the UK elbowed their way into their husband’s model train club meetings because they didn’t think it was fair for them to keep women out. I think about that a lot. 

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Posted
24 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

At no point in human history has man had the ability to go out and lay waste to as many and all varieties of ass. 

And yet, it would seem as if we are living in a 1930's Ukraine. All the fertile soil and abundance of the harvest, yet the people working the fields are starving to death.

beautiful happy endings GIF

 

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Posted
4 hours ago, Your Mom said:

I’m perfectly fine advancing the human race without the majority of young American men. We just need some other countries to pull a little more weight. 

You might want to get outside the country a bit and assess before you write that prescription. 

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Posted
30 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

I was eventually the lucky recipient of the downward slope of looks and expectations that women would accept. My mid to late 20's were fun. The caliber of girls that were out of my league in high school and college had to make some tough choices, and I was one of those least shitty ones.

Maybe the swipey apps took all the fire out of the belly, but when I'm the inappropriate one in the office, we have a problem.

I'm domesticated with kids. I should be horrified about your weekends and the places you woke up. But if all my stories can one-up yours? Nah

I didn't get married until my late 20s. High school was rough, college better, and then things kept improving, similar to your arc.

One thing that is weird to me, and this could obviously be anecdotal/recency bias, but it seems like a lot of younger guys have problems making friends with girls. Just normal friends - co-workers, classmates, etc.  For all of the joking in this thread about seeing women (or men) as hook-up objects, some younger people seem to have a problem with chit-chatting the opposite gender in a completely platonic way.

I had this conversation/lecture/TED Talk with a early-20s cousin a few years ago at a family reunion.  He had not brought his girlfriend to the reunion because she had suddenly become his ex-girlfriend and he was kind of complaining about it.  I basically said, "don't you have a number of female friends you could call up and get somebody to go out/run around with you for this kind of stuff?" and he looked at me like I was speaking in tongues. Like it didn't occur to him to have a number of platonic female friends.

To go back to your point about it being easier to hook up with other people now than at any point in history, back in the 90s, I found making friends with a lot of women a great way to well, meet more women. My places of work were usually sausage fests and/or the women were married, so I'd make friends with the married women, make friends with female neighbors at apartment complexes, etc., and just by acting like a normal, decent person, you will stumble across a female friend who loves to play matchmaker. At the very least, you'd get invited to parties, dinners, etc. where you'd meet more women.

Here in 2025, it's even better - just be a decent person, make a bunch of female friends, be Facebook friends with them, don't post batshit conspiracy theories or misogynistic bullshit on your FB profile and feed, post nice comments/responses, etc. and you are exposed to a whole shitload of women of all ages and needs/wants.

Youth really is wasted on the young.

If I somehow ever end up divorced, I will be using the hell out of these tools to easily find my next ex-wife.

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Posted
5 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

Women Are Refusing To Be In Relationships With Men In Record Numbers, And This Is The Brutal Truth Behind Why

I'm A Gender Researcher

You should pause there. The author is a McKinsey consultant. 

 

We have serious issues to deal with wrt our young boys in this culture and society, and equal if not potentially greater issues to deal with wrt our young girls. 

Careful who is setting the narrative and landscape of the solution finding. 

Posted

Tough subject. I feel like it needs to be treated with a combination of empathy and tough love. I'm late 40s, as young men we were allowed and expected to get into good trouble and didn't have the internet/social media to drag us down. I can imagine this world is tougher to manage. But it feels like too many have turned to grievance instead of self-accountability. 

 

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I'm late 40s, as young men we were allowed and expected to get into good trouble and didn't have the internet/social media to drag us down.

The gauntlet our kids have to navigate today is extremely different than the one we had to run. It's hard for us parents, because we aren't particularly equipped for it either.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The gauntlet our kids have to navigate today is extremely different than the one we had to run. It's hard for us parents, because we aren't particularly equipped for it either.

My son was telling me about why my grandson was grounded from his phone. He intercepted a text conversation with a gal where she (16) was calling him (16) daddy and that they wanted to "lube up, no diddy".

This generation isn't completely "cooked" as the kids say, but the conversation was while a normal and healthy heterosexual impulse for the young man, you need to treat the lass with more respect and not be vulgar, etc. and assume her dad can read everything you say.

Edited by Vegas64
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Posted
9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The gauntlet our kids have to navigate today is extremely different than the one we had to run. It's hard for us parents, because we aren't particularly equipped for it either.

Totally. Mine is entering 2nd grade, so I have some time and been thinking hard about how to approach things. One thing I’m stressing with him is that human connection is the most important part of life. That his friendships are vital. Yeah, it’s fun to play video games or watch YouTube, but sitting and playing around a campfire with friends/family is a way better experience. I think he gets it, but I’ll need to be vigilant about providing those experiences. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, KaiserSoze said:

^ I suspect mostly this. Otherwise, I'm right in the middle of Gen X and at some point around 2008 when I hung around with the younger "Millennial" folk the thing that stood out to me the most was how all of their favorite music was whiny emo pussy bitchass garbage. 

You mean like The Cure? Oh wait....

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I think he gets it, but I’ll need to be vigilant about providing those experiences. 

100% this. Spent the weekend fishing with my boys. Amazing what a fishing rod and a finger in the mouth of a bass can do to get them away from screens. It's good for them, but also good for dad. Sat with my cousin for a bit a caught up on things. 

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Posted
47 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I didn't get married until my late 20s. High school was rough, college better, and then things kept improving, similar to your arc.

One thing that is weird to me, and this could obviously be anecdotal/recency bias, but it seems like a lot of younger guys have problems making friends with girls. Just normal friends - co-workers, classmates, etc.  For all of the joking in this thread about seeing women (or men) as hook-up objects, some younger people seem to have a problem with chit-chatting the opposite gender in a completely platonic way.

I had this conversation/lecture/TED Talk with a early-20s cousin a few years ago at a family reunion.  He had not brought his girlfriend to the reunion because she had suddenly become his ex-girlfriend and he was kind of complaining about it.  I basically said, "don't you have a number of female friends you could call up and get somebody to go out/run around with you for this kind of stuff?" and he looked at me like I was speaking in tongues. Like it didn't occur to him to have a number of platonic female friends.

To go back to your point about it being easier to hook up with other people now than at any point in history, back in the 90s, I found making friends with a lot of women a great way to well, meet more women. My places of work were usually sausage fests and/or the women were married, so I'd make friends with the married women, make friends with female neighbors at apartment complexes, etc., and just by acting like a normal, decent person, you will stumble across a female friend who loves to play matchmaker. At the very least, you'd get invited to parties, dinners, etc. where you'd meet more women.

Here in 2025, it's even better - just be a decent person, make a bunch of female friends, be Facebook friends with them, don't post batshit conspiracy theories or misogynistic bullshit on your FB profile and feed, post nice comments/responses, etc. and you are exposed to a whole shitload of women of all ages and needs/wants.

Youth really is wasted on the young.

If I somehow ever end up divorced, I will be using the hell out of these tools to easily find my next ex-wife.

I think this is a really good point. I’ve always had a number of good female friends and in my dating years it served me well. It made women easily approachable because I knew how to talk to and relate to them without being a complete creep. To this date, I count several women as close friends and I appreciate their counsel and advice on certain things from the female perspective. I’m also thankful to have a wife that isn’t jealous or threatened by those relationships.

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Posted (edited)

This is why like three thousand students at Texas State are on sugarbaby.com….  The guys their age are boring, it’s not just the money that makes it appealing. Also not an expert but we have those around here.  

Edited by Hook1997
Posted

Remember all those brain dead slackers with the collective IQ of a peanut just barely existing in the 80s and 90s? These Gen z morons are the offspring of that. Of course we have a country of dipshits who can't function properly and a country that's destroying itself. 

Posted
Just now, Brian Fantana said:

I wish I was that young

Reconsider appreciation of the sounds of nature, a simple fishing rod, and some fucking peace and quiet for once. And if that doesn't do it for you, the ear to ear grin on your kids face when they hook one and reel it in themselves. 

Posted (edited)

I love being outside, We live out in the country and get plenty of peace and quiet. I can get all that by stepping out my back door. I lost my desire to hunt and fish years ago and I can't imagine it coming back.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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Posted
6 hours ago, Hook1997 said:

This is why like three thousand students at Texas State are on sugarbaby.com….  The guys their age are boring, it’s not just the money that makes it appealing. Also not an expert but we have those around here.   cannot pay for the girls' school.

 

Posted
8 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Not to be a complete reactionary here. I think a big part of the problem is that we have as a society done away with male only spaces. And of course, colleges and workplaces and jibs shouldn’t be closed to women. 

But the pendulum really swung and any male-only club or activity outside of a few sports got smashed along with the patriarchy.  When you made those things and spaces transgressive, then actual transgressives like Tate filled the gap.

I was reading an article a while back about how some wives in the UK elbowed their way into their husband’s model train club meetings because they didn’t think it was fair for them to keep women out. I think about that a lot. 

 

Posted

I think it's going to be a somewhat moot point in x number of years where a guy or girl can just buy an ai robot companion and program it how they see fit. I've often wondered what the secondary/used market place would look like once they get tired of the robot they are fucking. 

I'm not sure there is a way to reverse what is happening today in society and the ai revolution I doubt will fix the problem, but instead will augment it. 

 

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Posted
7 hours ago, Hook1997 said:

This is why like three thousand students at Texas State are on sugarbaby.com….  The guys their age are boring, it’s not just the money that makes it appealing. Also not an expert but we have those around here.  

Narrator: "It's the money."

 

Posted
6 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

I love being outside, We live out in the country and get plenty of peace and quiet. I can get all that by stepping out my back door. I lost my desire to hunt and fish years ago and I can't imagine it coming back.

 

15 minutes ago, baboso said:

Fishing is not a sport.  It's a hobby, a passion, an avocation.  

First agree with baboso. Don't fish much anymore due to time constraints, but miss it. @Brian Fantana What sort of fishing did you partake in? I'm asking as some there are wildly different experiences. Fly fishing trout in waders is vastly different that fly fishing trout on a float in Colorado. Neither is the same as spin or fly fishing trout or reds in the gulf. All of which are still different than trolling for sand bass, deep sea and certainly from bobber fishing at Lake Ray Hubbard. Some are incredible Zen, some super thrilling and some just meditation on relaxing.

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Posted

Some of you geezers or wannabe geezers need to get off the notion that hunting, fishing, etc. are hobbies that make a man "a man"

That's toxic behavior and you're just going to raise little assholes who bully men who don't want to partake in such activities as being beta/gay/soft

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Some of you geezers or wannabe geezers need to get off the notion that hunting, fishing, etc. are hobbies that make a man "a man"

That's toxic behavior and you're just going to raise little assholes who bully men who don't want to partake in such activities as being beta/gay/soft

I personally enjoy a food, poker, shows and shopping trip to Vegas as I do a fly float trip to Colorado or Idaho, but I'd take a long weekend doing the BMW racing school in South Carolina or a ski trip to France just as quickly. My question is, why not both tacos?

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted
Just now, immamac said:

Maybe the problem is none of you know what being a man means anymore and that's why you are projecting your worry on the younger generation. 

Hah! Do I seem worried? 

Posted
6 minutes ago, immamac said:

Maybe the problem is none of you know what being a man means anymore and that's why you are projecting your worry on the younger generation. 

Tell us more about your pushups. 

 

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Some of you geezers or wannabe geezers need to get off the notion that hunting, fishing, etc. are hobbies that make a man "a man"

That's toxic behavior and you're just going to raise little assholes who bully men who don't want to partake in such activities as being beta/gay/soft

I agree with where you're coming from.  Hell it bothered me that neither of our sons got their driver's license until they were well past their 17th birthday.  I was like, "What red blooded American male doesn't want to be driving and enjoying that freedom?"  In the end, ultimately, it didn't make a shit in their development.

There's certainly not ONE right answer for "manly man;" but I do feel very strongly that they need to be active in SOMETHING constructive besides "sitting in the basement playing CoD." As for making fun of someone's interests/ hobbies, in our house, if you do something goofy or whatever, you're gonna get a ration of shit.  The flipside of that is if you enjoy doing it and it's not hurting anyone or yourself, then go for it.  Stand behind your decision.  That's part of self-esteem.

Physical bullying?  Nope.  Never demonstrated.  Never accepted.

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Posted
12 hours ago, immamac said:

Idk what kind of losers you guys hang out with, maybe some of you need to quit acting like girls don't like to get fucked as much as men like to. It's fucking weird. 

IDK - Maybe more of the girls want to do the fucking….on their terms.

But my oldest grandson (22) is doing ok with the ladies.

Posted
9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

One thing that is weird to me, and this could obviously be anecdotal/recency bias, but it seems like a lot of younger guys have problems making friends with girls. Just normal friends - co-workers, classmates, etc.  For all of the joking in this thread about seeing women (or men) as hook-up objects, some younger people seem to have a problem with chit-chatting the opposite gender in a completely platonic way.

Have you spent any time in the "stupid shit wives say" thread? I already have a wife, I don't want to hang around or chit chat with more women about shit. What a fucking chore that is. Maybe younger men have more patience than I do now at 51.

I think the internet has really skewed shit for everyone. Used to be, you grew up around people your own age and it really seemed like people that were on the same level of looks would naturally gravitate towards each other. Mid chicks got with mid guys, hot cheerleaders got with stud athletes, etc. But now it seems that mid to ugly women refuse to give their male counterparts the time of day. And those mid to ugly guys are giving up, instead of getting back out there and trying again. Both sides need to work on their own issues but it isn't happening. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Have you spent any time in the "stupid shit wives say" thread? I already have a wife, I don't want to hang around or chit chat with more women about shit. What a fucking chore that is. Maybe younger men have more patience than I do now at 51.

I think the internet has really skewed shit for everyone. Used to be, you grew up around people your own age and it really seemed like people that were on the same level of looks would naturally gravitate towards each other. Mid chicks got with mid guys, hot cheerleaders got with stud athletes, etc. But now it seems that mid to ugly women refuse to give their male counterparts the time of day. And those mid to ugly guys are giving up, instead of getting back out there and trying again. Both sides need to work on their own issues but it isn't happening. 

We were literally talking about this at the lake, how many decent-to-above-average looking women in their 30s settle for these mid ass guys.

Once you get close to or out of your 20s, you actually look for things you want long-term: stability, a good job, etc.  Looks fade. 

Kids these days need to be spending their prime appearance years (late teens/early to mid 20s) just fucking and then start to settle down for the things you want for the next 20-40 years. 

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Posted
32 minutes ago, immamac said:

Maybe the problem is none of you know what being a man means anymore and that's why you are projecting your worry on the younger generation. 

13 hours ago, KaiserSoze said:

^ I suspect mostly this. Otherwise, I'm right in the middle of Gen X and at some point around 2008 when I hung around with the younger "Millennial" folk the thing that stood out to me the most was how all of their favorite music was whiny emo pussy bitchass garbage. 

No idea what that was all about but it was definitely disturbing and a whole lot of wtf. 

you mean like Modest Mouse?

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Posted (edited)

Lot going on here but fundamentally the world changes, women can live on their own and their ability to want more or want different has evolved. Not every rule has changed but some have. 

I have a unique perspective, and I am raising 2 boys and have a 3rd out of the house. My 17 year old is a really good looking young man and he’s got adult level game. Doesn’t always translate to the teens but he has it going on.

all this talk about masculinity is toxic is nonsense. Toxic masculinity is a problem. Lazy masculinity is a problem. You want the girl, figure out what she wants and needs and provide it. 

what’s his secret? Starts simple - good hygiene, fantastic smile, pays attention to what he wears. He works out, keeps his truck clean, has money and is not concerned about spending it on good times with friends. He saves money too. From there he likes to have a good time, understands the power of telling a good story, making people laugh, and making people feel good about themselves. 

he knows how to appreciate, compliment, carry on a conversation and frankly has being a good conversationalist as his his number one trait he is looking for in a girl after physical attraction when looking to date. 

he understands his emotions, he can talk about them, he can be vulnerable and he also knows that tending to his emotional wounds and needs is his responsibility first but that being seen is critical to a positive relationship. He is slow to anger, he is a great listener. 

in his personal time he’s always learning and wanting to be a better version of himself. He knows how to make things, he knows how to take care of things, he loves the outdoors, camping, and other guy things. But he loves the theatre too. He’s not afraid to follow his interests. He’s NOT a gamer but when friends come over he will whip their ass at Mario kart. He buys video games to entertain his friends when they come over, but rarely plays alone.

when it comes to being a man his ideas are forming but I’m pretty sure if I asked him to articulate it based solely on my observations of what he does and what he says he would say something like this … 

Positive masculinity, being a successful man means knowing who you are, managing your life well so that you can include another human in your life and you can be a positive addition to theirs, making others around you feel more confident, secure and positive about themselves. At times helping to carry whatever burden needs to be carried whether it’s hanging art on the wall, fixing a leaky toilet, talking out a work problem or working through our own emotional crosswires. When times are good, making people laugh, making memories, and celebrating life’s small and large accomplishments. Above all else, being kind, having fun, and being a net positive in a relationship is the secret to a happy wife and a happy life. 

I’ll sum it up by saying this we went to a theatre production of what the constitution means to me and the premise is that the constitution has not protected women like it was supposed to. He left feeling bad, I asked him, he said, “you know, I’ll be fine, I’m a straight white guy, but many people I love aren’t going to be ok and that upsets me.” <— that right there is positive masculinity. 

this young man has dated about 10 girls in 3 years of high school and he’s on his 4th legit girlfriend. Only one girl refused to keep seeing him, he’s been the one to break up with them.

boys and men need to up their game, what women have to tolerate has changed and what they want is more clear and it will require boys and men to up their game. 

but its not a criticism of masculinity its a criticism of lazy masculinity. 

Edited by troph
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Posted (edited)

I'll answer this from what I see from my daughters and their friends. The daughers are recent-ish UT graduates, one works for a consulting firm, the other is about to start medical school. Their friends are also UTexas/college graduates who have jobs and don't live at home. They live in Austin, Denver, Chicago, and NYC. Most live in different cities than where they grew up/went to high school.

The single ones are socially active, going to bars, parties, girls night out shit. They will talk to guys. Some will go on dates. But if you a follower of Tate and any of that nonsense, you will not get a second date. They are keenly aware of the political environment and make no bones about avoiding dudes who wear a certain type of hat.

I'm sure there are women who are their opposites in the political spectrum. I'm sure they share the same bias in their dating lives.

Edited by crash_davis
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Posted
8 hours ago, NorthLoop said:

You mean like The Cure? Oh wait....

My comment was not that the genre didn't already exist.

7 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

you mean like Modest Mouse?

ISWYDT- I'm in the other thread too- and no, not at all like Modest Mouse... it was super soft emo garbage.

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