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Charlie Kirk assassinated at an event in Utah [Professional Job or Crazy Person?]


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Posted
10 minutes ago, troph said:

I’m not pursuing anything, seriously what power do I have. And still, how did this person get this gun, what age are they, what is their criminal and mental health history? Even if this person is as sane and law abiding mature adult as you think they may be, it’s an undeniable fact that deaths and mass shootings have risen since the 1994 assault weapon ban sunsetted and wasn’t renewed. Fact, not conjecture, not opinion, fact. We need gun control regulations and reform, now.


I don’t think this person is sane or law abiding. The fuck, dawg. 

Ok so you want a modern AWB. Do you want all pistols banned this time or stick with mostly semi-auto rifles or both and everything in between? Maybe all that’s legal is bolt action rifles and pump action rifles?

I’m not going to argue with you no matter how you reply. I’m curious where you’re at because I think you represent a big portion of the country. 
 

Posted
12 minutes ago, troph said:

I’m not pursuing anything, seriously what power do I have. And still, how did this person get this gun, what age are they, what is their criminal and mental health history? Even if this person is as sane and law abiding mature adult as you think they may be, it’s an undeniable fact that deaths and mass shootings have risen since the 1994 assault weapon ban sunsetted and wasn’t renewed. Fact, not conjecture, not opinion, fact. We need gun control regulations and reform, now.

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RRA200/RRA243-9/RAND_RRA243-9.pdf

 

Considering the relative strengths of these studies, available evidence is inconclusive for the effect of assault weapon bans on total homicides and firearm homicides. Similarly, we find inconclusive evidence for the effect of high-capacity magazine bans on total and firearm homicides.

 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:


When you stick your neck out there and espouse such an opinion, you have to expect some blowback.

The quart of blood technique 

Posted

In other words…exactly what Brisket and others have been sounding alarm bells about for years now.
This script is a known thing. And it always ends like this…and worse. Because it will get worse.
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Posted

For all the "this shouldn't be celebrated" crowd I ask this. 

What is a solution to stopping the country from falling completely into a maga authoritarian dystopia? We see now what happens if hate mongers are allowed to brainwash people with impunity 24/7. How do you put a stop to it at this point with non-violent means? 

Or are you wanting to roll over and allow them to rule over us all if it means not having to commit or condone violence?

Posted
2 minutes ago, B00M said:

Maybe all that’s legal is bolt action rifles and pump action rifles?

As demonstrated recently, a solid bolt action gets the job done. Whatever that job may be. Red flag laws should certainly be a topic of discussion, but many would lose their minds when evidence-based parameters for red flagging are implemented. 

2 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

For all the "this shouldn't be celebrated" crowd I ask this. 

What is a solution to stopping the country from falling completely into a maga authoritarian dystopia? We see now what happens if hate mongers are allowed to brainwash people with impunity 24/7. How do you put a stop to it at this point with non-violent means? 

Or are you wanting to roll over and allow them to rule over us all if it means not having to commit or condone violence?

First, stop with this nonsense. 

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RRA200/RRA243-9/RAND_RRA243-9.pdf

 

Considering the relative strengths of these studies, available evidence is inconclusive for the effect of assault weapon bans on total homicides and firearm homicides. Similarly, we find inconclusive evidence for the effect of high-capacity magazine bans on total and firearm homicides.

 

Ana citing RAND? What kind of world is this?

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Posted
4 hours ago, caliHORNia said:

Apologies - I meant to highlight that the quotes you chose are indeed indicative of how divisive Kirk was and that in of itself is not a reason to shoot the guy.

It’s a reason.  Just not a good enough one.

Posted

Think I’ll wait until some actual facts come out before declaring nothing could be done to stop this.  And even if it comes out that some red flag laws could’ve prevented it nothing will happen, same as always.  There is no group more irrationally paranoid than the gun freaks.   Nobody is ever coming for your guns, that ship sailed a long long time ago, but it does create yet another fantastic boogeyman for the rubes.  

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Posted
Just now, SimonBolivar said:

Ana citing RAND? What kind of world is this?

 I put the in my house sign in the yard and yall still quibble. RAND is a big org. Parts of it do really good work. I understand that yall are not ok. 

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Shocker! Crowder was spreading hateful disinformation. He never does that!

 

 

The right wing infrastructure is designed to be the first to run with anything that could hurt the opponent even if eventually proven to be untrue. They know the initial report is the one most viewed and lingers even after the truth comes out. This initial report will be repeated by politicians even once the facts come out differently. It’s really one of Kirk’s legacies.  

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 I understand that yall are not ok. 

Correct, my wife was telling me that in her school that has 114 second graders, 1 is reading at grade level.

 

 

1

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Posted

I’d argue that social media platforms incentivize run wirh anything first and that’s the problem.  There are just more right wing shitheels that have learned to game the system to get paid. 

Posted
22 minutes ago, B00M said:


I don’t think this person is sane or law abiding. The fuck, dawg. 

Ok so you want a modern AWB. Do you want all pistols banned this time or stick with mostly semi-auto rifles or both and everything in between? Maybe all that’s legal is bolt action rifles and pump action rifles?

I’m not going to argue with you no matter how you reply. I’m curious where you’re at because I think you represent a big portion of the country. 
 

Easy question to answer: if it was developed to kill on the battlefield we don't need private ownership.  

I'm old enough to remember the bans/attempted bans on "cop killer bullets" and "Saturday night specials" and "Mushroom bullets."  I don't even remember how those turned out. 

I was a double expert (M-16/M1910) in the Marines.  The .45 cal I can see for self-defense (more like scaring the hell out of a burglar since you're probably not going to hit him -  the scene with that guy missing all his shots in Pulp Fiction was spot on).  But an M-16/AR-15?  Fucking no way.  Why not just say you're using hand grenades for self defense?  The thing called "common sense" left the building a long time ago. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mdmost said:

I just...I just don't get it.

 

Pretty much every week something happens to make me question my sanity. When I think that 100 MILLION adult US citizens think everything happening is all well and good or don't care enough to do the bare minimum to try and prevent this spiral, it seems equally likely that I've just lost my mind.

Edited by hookem2010
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Posted
5 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Correct, my wife was telling me that in her school that has 114 second graders, 1 is reading at grade level.

 

 

1

That sounds rough. In all seriousness, RAND ed psych folks could probably consult. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

I’d argue that social media platforms incentivize run wirh anything first and that’s the problem.  There are just more right wing shitheels that have learned to game the system to get paid. 

True. But they also flood the zone with coordinated wording. And it is usually not true. There attacks on trans people as the main cause of mass shootings recently has worked. They are being magnified by the media and right wing politicians. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

I’d argue that social media platforms incentivize run wirh anything first and that’s the problem.  There are just more right wing shitheels that have learned to game the system to get paid. 

mostly because their audience is full of morons that will buy dumb shit from their advertisers.  It's always people selling food buckets, solar generators (from "4 Patriots"), gold coins, etc. 

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Posted
14 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 I put the in my house sign in the yard and yall still quibble. RAND is a big org. Parts of it do really good work. I understand that yall are not ok. 

Of all the people not good enough to post here, you are #1.  The Real Gregory Gym has more validity than you.  You're not a Longhorn.

Posted
Just now, Bullneck said:

Of all the people not good enough to post here, you are #1.  The Real Gregory Gym has more validity than you.  You're not a Longhorn.

I have far more academic longhorn cred than you and most everyone else on this board. 

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Posted (edited)

MAGA having a field day doxxing people today. Not a lot of sympathy for people stupid enough to celebrate someone's death on their social media though.

But it's all so goddamn transparent. 

Does ANYONE believe that if Charlie Kirk's left wing equivalent*, let's say Greta Thunberg (someone with actual accomplishments), was assassinated yesterday that they wouldn't be absolutely giddy walking the line with distasteful jokes and ominous "probably not a good idea to threaten so many people's livelihoods" hand-waving?

*Liberals don't really make podcasters famous, so there's not a direct comparison

Edited by aggie08
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Posted

But sorry for posting academic grade synthesis of research to this discussion. I know that is not what you are looking for. But I still like the yard sign. 

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Posted
13 minutes ago, 'stache said:

This is what has been tormenting me the last 24 hours. I don’t see any possibility of a peaceful resolution to the current climate. And I don’t see how civility can possibly win the day. My wife even noticed and mentioned it, I’m verging on full blown depression. Doing all I can to keep it together.

We also had a very serious discussion about moving to the coast. The Oklahoma Superintendent sent a message to parents that Kirk was a hero and to report any teacher who is found to have said anything remotely negative for immediate decertification. My wife is a counselor at a majority Black/Hispanic school and said everyone is on eggshells. The kids know what happened and have opinions, how do you help them without risking losing your career?

I can’t raise my kids here, I never thought the death of a hateful asshole would be the tip of the scale but I think we’re there. The governor is also going to war with our Black democrat mayor over homelessness and for some weird reason the responsibilities of the state highway patrol. It’s only going to get worse.

I feel you, we're going through the same. I can't imagine any way this gets better without answering republican violence in kind, and that might not make things better. But it can't be worse than just rolling over for them. The hope is if enough of these people pay the ultimate consequences for their hate speech, others may start to fear putting out hate speech. 

I see no way freedom of speech in any real form survives, and the best case scenario seems to be trump kicks it very soon and most of these people just lose interest after that when JD Vance shows them he's just another Washington suit. 

We will never get pre 2016 America back. The majority of us will always look at our neighbors, coworkers, and anyone we stand next to in the store with side eye and suspicion. But we need enough stability to function as a society, and unfortunately American apathy in the wake of trump's demise would be the only thing I can see buy us a little time. 

 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I have far more academic longhorn cred than you and most everyone else on this board. 

It doesn't matter how long you've hung around.  You haven't learned anything of value.  

Take photo of ONE thing in your house with a Longhorn on it.  I'll wait.

Posted
5 hours ago, caliHORNia said:

What do you find funny about it?  That people should have the right to free speech even if they say stupid things?

He had the right to free speech which actually means that the government didn’t stop him from saying whatever he wanted.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Shocker! Crowder was spreading hateful disinformation. He never does that!

 

 

That's another thing that defies credibility about that.  If it's a public release, sure there's various reasons you wouldn't describe the markings.  But it's not a public release, it's for LEO.

So why would you resort to loaded language like "antifa" and "ideology"? Unless you were being a dipshit.  Does law enforcement actually use the term "Antifa"?  I would think not since it doesn't really describe anything.

For LEO, you'd describe the markings as accurately as possible, e.g. "the cartridge casings were inscribed with the letters EABOD  and a  cartoonish animal, depicted below:

flat,800x800,075,f.u3.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt

Edited by TwiceHorn
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

As demonstrated recently, a solid bolt action gets the job done. Whatever that job may be. Red flag laws should certainly be a topic of discussion, but many would lose their minds when evidence-based parameters for red flagging are implemented. 

First, stop with this nonsense. 

Imagine watching masked dudes round up 100's of Korean nationals with zip ties and then saying stop with this nonsense. Wild

Edited by Thatguy
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Take photo of ONE thing in your house with a Longhorn on it.  I'll wait.

LOL. I got a couple good ones for you. 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

That's the real frustrating thing here. These people are incompetent pussies. It's all performative. They don't want real conflict. They want to bluster up and make others scared, but if enough people stood up and showed enough force back at them I fully believe they would slink back and whine on social media like they've been doing since yesterday. 

A full on offensive against maga mouthpieces would probably be enough to get them to stand down, especially once trump is gone. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Dr. Teeth said:

True. But they also flood the zone with coordinated wording. And it is usually not true. There attacks on trans people as the main cause of mass shootings recently has worked. They are being magnified by the media and right wing politicians. 

It bears repeating: TPUSA literally ran a business model of flooding the zone with coordinated wording, powered by teens

Here's a story from 2020 about it, regarding his work on election truthers conspiracies that fueled January 6

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/09/25/fake-social-media-turning-point-usa

In a statement to the Post, Turning Point USA said the notion that they are sponsoring a troll farm is a “gross mischaracterization.” Instead, they're adapting to the coronavirus pandemic and paying people to do their jobs online that they would have otherwise paid them to do in the field, the statement added.

Brookie says any work done in the field like Turning Point USA suggests, such as door knocking, would have received a much smaller audience than online.

The purpose of these disinformation campaigns are to go viral, he says. Twitter and Facebook seem to be concerned because they have suspended some of the accounts associated with the Phoenix troll farm.

Yet it’s unclear what the grounds are for yanking these accounts, he says. The social networks are facing enormous pressure to moderate the spread of fake information on their platforms during both an election year and global public health crisis, he says.

Brookie says he’s “not entirely sure” if there’s any evidence that the Republican Party itself is at all involved in funding this kind of operation or funding Turning Point USA. Kirk, the organization’s founder, is an adamant supporter of President Trump.

“He has attended multiple rallies with the Trump campaign. He's an outspoken advocate and surrogate for the campaign,” he says. “And so the amplification to a larger audience, regardless of the source of funding, is the same.”

Edited by Captainant
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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, B00M said:


I don’t think this person is sane or law abiding. The fuck, dawg. 

Ok so you want a modern AWB. Do you want all pistols banned this time or stick with mostly semi-auto rifles or both and everything in between? Maybe all that’s legal is bolt action rifles and pump action rifles?

I’m not going to argue with you no matter how you reply. I’m curious where you’re at because I think you represent a big portion of the country. 
 

I don’t represent anyone but me, and you’d be foolish to extrapolate much else from my view …. But off the cuff a bit…

first I love guns. I didn’t get any until my boys were well past the accident stage and during Covid when we honestly thought it a good idea for home protection and when we camped in the near wilderness (Colorado). But since getting them there’s not a month that goes by that I don’t think anything other than I’m glad I have them, I feel safer in this country, and I enjoy them and want to engage in the sport of it (gun range for fun, training etc). I am a discrete but proud multiple gun owner. I do not carry at the moment because I don’t believe it should be legal and I don’t find it necessary (yet) but I am open to it for me (small purse weapon).

so who should be barred from owning a gun?

-Convicted or under active investigation of crime (probably serious misdemeanors that have a relation to violence and all felonies)

-certain mental health illnesses - based on science and experts and permanent or until medical clearance if scientifically appropriate

Process changes?

-background checks, no instant sales, come back and get it after you buy it, open to others that act as a cooling off period. Also more strict training requirements for concealed, more places it is banned outright, no open carry at all.
 

Guns to ban? 

-I’m not enough of an hobbyist sportsman or self defense student  to know all the terminology but to me the focus needs to be on intended outcome not look. You want an ar-15 that shoots 12-15 bullets one at a time before you have to change a clip. And the bullets kinda normal and aren’t intended to rip a body in half exploding the persons entire back out?  Hardly a problem. 

-but as soon as you get to a higher capacity, a quicker firing mechanism and ammunition designed to obliterate the body in ways that only should happen in war? Yeah no way.

-Ban them, first degree felony if you keep them after a 6 month - 12 months grace period to turn them in after that you’re on your own. Convicted of a violent crime with a banned gun, that’s 2x the sentence or mandatory guidelines. I dunno something to get them off the street.  No door to door raids obviously.

Do my guns need to be banned?

-I’m open to an honest discussion and the fact that I use them for home protection and camping protection shouldn’t necessarily matter so long as I have access to firearms that will comfortably fulfill my purposes. But I do think what I own is not excessive and should be allowed. 

-I like my guns but if we can achieve saving significant numbers of lives because guns are restricted and that impacts my enjoyment, show me where to drop off my guns. I’ll be the first one there.

2nd amendment arguments 

-The rationale to over throw tyranny is no longer rational or valid, the federal government can do what it wants, our weapons will not stop it, not individually not collectively. 
 

-and I’m not going to get into the sophisticated ways a true authoritarian takes control without firing a shot but let’s just say the playbook is well confirmed and has spanned the test of time.

-the only reasonable and valid reasons to allow guns is for hunting, self protection and sportsman activities. When ammunition and equipment steer away from those purposes and to the maximum efficient destruction of human lives that’s where you find the line.

 

Edited by troph
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Posted
2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Don’t the Mormons believe he was from Missouri or something?

It was the location of the Garden of Eden.

dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb.gif

 

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Posted
Just now, F250 said:

It was the location of the Garden of Eden.

dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb.gif

 

I think about 75% of my knowledge of Mormonism and Scientology comes from South Park.

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Posted
16 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Take photo of ONE thing in your house with a Longhorn on it.  I'll wait.

Can we get some action Bullneck. I post some good pics of longhorn memorabilia you probably haven't ever seen, and you make a donation to charity of mutual agreement. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Can we get some action Bullneck. I post some good pics of longhorn memorabilia you probably haven't ever seen, and you make a donation to charity of mutual agreement. 

There had better be a fuckin dildo

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

But sorry for posting academic grade synthesis of research to this discussion. I know that is not what you are looking for. But I still like the yard sign. 

The article presents many good conclusions, but one of its stronger points is the lack of quality research in general. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

There had better be a fuckin dildo

Technological memorabilia gets weird, I understad. 

Just now, SimonBolivar said:

The article presents many good conclusions, but one of its stronger points is the lack of quality research in general. 

Agree. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, troph said:

I don’t represent anyone but me, and you’d be foolish to extrapolate much else from my view …. But off the cuff a bit…

first I love guns. I didn’t get any until my boys were well past the accident stage and during Covid when we honestly thought it a good idea for home protection and when we camped in the near wilderness (Colorado). But since getting them there’s not a month that goes by that I don’t think anything other than I’m glad I have them, I feel safer in this country, and I enjoy them and want to engage in the sport of it (gun range for fun, training etc). I am a discrete but proud multiple gun owner. I do not carry at the moment because I don’t believe it should be legal and I don’t find it necessary (yet) but I am open to it for me (small purse weapon).

so who should be barred from owning a gun?

-Convicted or under active investigation of crime (probably serious misdemeanors that have a relation to violence and all felonies)

-certain mental health illnesses - based on science and experts and permanent or until medical clearance if scientifically appropriate

Process changes?

-background checks, no instant sales, come back and get it after you buy it, open to others that act as a cooling off period. Also more strict training requirements for concealed, more places it is banned outright, no open carry at all.
 

Guns to ban? 

-I’m not enough of an hobbyist sportsman or self defense student  to know all the terminology but to me the focus needs to be on intended outcome not look. You want an ar-15 that shoots 12-15 bullets one at a time before you have to change a clip. And the bullets kinda normal and aren’t intended to rip a body in half exploding the persons entire back out?  Hardly a problem. 

-but as soon as you get to a higher capacity, a quicker firing mechanism and ammunition designed to obliterate the body in ways that only should happen in war? Yeah no way.

-Ban them, first degree felony if you keep them after a 6 month - 12 months grace period to turn them in after that you’re on your own. Convicted of a violent crime with a banned gun, that’s 2x the sentence or mandatory guidelines. I dunno something to get them off the street.  No door to door raids obviously.

Do my guns need to be banned?

-I’m open to an honest discussion and the fact that I use them for home protection and camping protection shouldn’t necessarily matter so long as I have access to firearms that will comfortably fulfill my purposes. But I do think what I own is not excessive and should be allowed. 

-I like my guns but if we can achieve saving significant numbers of lives because guns are restricted and that impacts my enjoyment, show me where to drop off my guns. I’ll be the first one there.

2nd amendment arguments 

-The rationale to over throw tyranny is no longer rational or valid, the federal government can do what it wants, our weapons will not stop it, not individually not collectively. 
 

-and I’m not going l get into the sophisticated ways a true authoritarian takes control without firing a shot but let’s just say the playbook is well confirmed and has spanned the test o of lf time.

-the only reasonable and valid reasons to allow guns is for hunting, self protection and sportsman activities. When ammunition and equipment steer away from those purposes and to the maximum efficient destruction of human lives that’s where you find the line.

 

meh.  Too little too late.  Magazine restrictions are the only hope that we have. Cap it at 8 rounds or something, and make it a felony to possess anything that holds more than that.  And do a buyback, because people of spent a lot of money on their mags/clips/whatever the fuck you want to call them. 

That wouldn't have saved Charlie Kirk (and he would have hated the idea anyway) but it would have saved a lot of lives in mass shootings. 

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