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Posted

Catching up since I was not on night shift.  What's the play for the Dems?  Cave on the shutdown, but once Congress re-opens move to extend ACA subsidies, scream "We told you so!!!" when the Republicans do nothing, and hope the pain of increased health care for so many in the red states carries over to the 2026 midterms?

Posted
33 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Pretty much agree on the points and the takeaway

image.thumb.png.d440b634b823a2304d0a619fec69c604.png
 

image.thumb.png.bd542faf61f34e8c763e1d000c181615.png
 

So again, Democrats are chickenshit and left a little bit on the table, but probably extracted as much political advantage out of this as was realistic given the cast of characters involved. 
I’ll add a couple of things:

1) A dejected base hurts, but a pissed off base is an advantage. The Republican base is coming out of this feeling like something is wrong with their baseball bat. The Democrat base are coming out of it saying “fuck you, Jobu, I’ll do it myself.”

2) This weed thing McConnell pushed into the CR is potentially a huge gift. 

 

 

That's a lot of words. Too bad this simple message will be a lot more effective. 

 

 

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Posted
8 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Catching up since I was not on night shift.  What's the play for the Dems?  Cave on the shutdown, but once Congress re-opens move to extend ACA subsidies, scream "We told you so!!!" when the Republicans do nothing, and hope the pain of increased health care for so many in the red states carries over to the 2026 midterms?

images.jpg.c00350965b38d9a805a1ee49d8b7b433.jpg

Posted
10 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Catching up since I was not on night shift.  What's the play for the Dems?  Cave on the shutdown, but once Congress re-opens move to extend ACA subsidies, scream "We told you so!!!" when the Republicans do nothing, and hope the pain of increased health care for so many in the red states carries over to the 2026 midterms?

Basically.

Posted
3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

 

That's a lot of words. Too bad this simple message will be a lot more effective. 

 

 

And it'll land. It lands with me and I'm so fucking anti fascism it's not even funny. 

Wait so cornyn actually fucked the vote? They get a second shot this morning? 

Posted
Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Dems today: "Top 36 reasons why it was strategically time for Dems to end the shutdown and where we go from here"

Republicans today:  "Dems fucked y'all for nothing" 

I hope they come to their senses and bail. 

Posted
Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Dems today: "Top 36 reasons why it was strategically time for Dems to end the shutdown and where we go from here"

Republicans today:  "Dems fucked y'all for nothing" 

Not for nothing.

They cleaned up last Tuesday.

Posted
3 minutes ago, immamac said:

And it'll land. It lands with me and I'm so fucking anti fascism it's not even funny. 

Wait so cornyn actually fucked the vote? They get a second shot this morning? 

Huh?

I heard Rand Paul was a no vote, but has Cornyn joined him as well?

Posted
Just now, Fudge Nuggets said:

Huh?

I heard Rand Paul was a no vote, but has Cornyn joined him as well?

Cornyn apparently was not found not present lol 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Dems wont the shutdown! Wait, nevermind. 

 

It was literally working perfectly.

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Posted
Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Yesterday's news. 

This will be, too.

Democrats were never going to win on the subsidies. The government was going to open with or without them. Now they can take partial credit for getting SNAP back to families who need it and for getting federal workers paid. They also get to keep healthcare as an issue for the mid-terms. 

That's the political thinking anyway.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The details are absolutely meaningless. The Dems bent the knee to Trump and lost. The end. 

 

QFT.

 

I am pretty sure at this point that Dems will never realize the details don't fucking matter.

Posted
56 minutes ago, bluto said:

When a base and ‘base-adjacent’ is pissed off at their own party how is that an advantage?

Well, it's not like our base is going to vote Republican.

It is probably going to be tough on incumbent Ds, though.

Posted
28 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

 

That's a lot of words. Too bad this simple message will be a lot more effective. 

 

 

Effective at what? People aren’t changing their minds. 
Y’all really need to stop internalizing Republican framing.

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Dems wont the shutdown! Wait, nevermind. 

 

We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Nivek said:

This is so incredibly disappointing.  I should have expected this.  

The second sentence should temper the first.

Don't disagree with all the comments regarding incumbents/throwing them out, etc. However, I still think it remains to be seen as to how this plays out.  

One of the themes on these boards is that collectively as a country, we are just too stupid for the facts to matter. Thus, I'm not sure that how negatively this affects the votes (in the legislature and the voting booth) going forward.  

Do I want the Dem party to be seething in a way that actually gets Dems (especially younger ones) more motivated. 

It's an interesting calculus.  I want Dems to be pissed off enough to be thoroughly engaged -- just on this side of giving up completely and not voting.  

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Posted
23 minutes ago, immamac said:

I hope they come to their senses and bail. 

They won’t. Look, they didn’t make the optimal play in terms of what they were fighting for, and ended up setting the wrong expectations with their own base (y’all.) But this isn’t the disaster y’all seem to think it is, and the GOP messaging isn’t really going to land either.
 

The bottom line is that this has been a political net positive for Democrats and a net negative for the GOP, and it could have very easily gone the other direction.  

Posted
2 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

It's an interesting calculus.  I want Dems to be pissed off enough to be thoroughly engaged -- just on this side of giving up completely and not voting.  

I mean this has def pushed me to the edge of giving up and not voting, and there's a lot more capitulation to come before the midterms. 

Coolcoolcool

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Posted

It was always going to end this way, Dem constituencies are more vulnerable to the shutdown and the GOP was not going to cave. Extremely predictable.  
 

And in pure team sports play, fucking people up with healthcare costs that the GOP votes for helps the Dems, too. 

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Posted
38 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Not for nothing.

They cleaned up last Tuesday.

Serious question: would any of those races have gone the other way had the shutdown not happened?

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Posted
4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It was always going to end this way, Dem constituencies are more vulnerable to the shutdown and the GOP was not going to cave. Extremely predictable.  
 

And in pure team sports play, fucking people up with healthcare costs that the GOP votes for helps the Dems, too. 

Not it fucking doesn't.   I have read enough history to understand that the message matters more than the truth in the short-term, and right now the messaging from the media and government websites and propaganda machine are largely in sync.  The truth doesn't fucking matter.

Posted
15 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The details are absolutely meaningless. The Dems bent the knee to Trump and lost. The end. 

 

And one more thing: the reason MAGA beats you people is because when they win they declare victory, when they lose they declare victory, and when it’s a draw, they declare victory. And even when their own people and the mostly unaffiliated population don’t believe them, you do.

They live in your head and you (not you personally, but base Democrats) need to throw them out. You keep looking around at this leadership vacuum and wondering where the fighters are. They aren’t going to fight until you people fight. They aren’t going to act like winners until you act like winners and start treating victory, not policy, as the basis for making political choices and choosing candidates. You only get to win on policy when you win on Election Day. 
 

You didn’t get the policy you wanted because *you* haven’t won enough goddamn elections. But what you did get was an opposition successfully throwing sand in the gears.

Opposition is defined by how much shit you can get away with fucking up.
 

Democrats managed to break the commercial aviation system while not taking the blame for it and SWEEP elections while they were shutting down the government. You think that’s not terrifying John Thune right now? You think he wants to do this again in February?
 

You want more policy wins? Do what @Pancho said he’s going to do: get pissed off enough at this to get involved. Otherwise enjoy the moment and look forward to the next time. This is OK.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Serious question: would any of those races have gone the other way had the shutdown not happened?

Serious answer: I don’t think one bit. People weren’t switching their votes or coming out of the woodwork because of the shutdown. I would wager the No Kings protests had more of an effect. 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

A lot of really important people thought THIS GUY was exactly who Hillary needed to get over the finish line.

A lot of really important people whose name rhymed with “Jillary Blinton”

Posted
11 hours ago, chainsaw said:

 

This is what I'm seeing:

https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/laws/advisory2020-05.shtml

I would not want to be stuck with that affiliation for a whole calendar year.

The only thing the affiliation does is entitle you to go to the convention as a delegate or run for/be appointed to a county or precinct chair.  If you voted in the Republican primary you can't do those things.  If you didn't vote in either primary you can do those things if you sign an oath of loyalty or affiliation to the party.  The Republicans are trying to change that to where you actually have to be a card carrying R to vote red.  Supposedly they are concerned about people cross voting to elect the worst candidates in primaries.   Most people don't.  

2 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

Of course.

How does one get to be a senator and yet have so little courage, so little backbone, so little intelligence, and so little strategic thinking?

Most of them start out as republican congresscritters.  Not sure why the Dems are like that, unless that shit just rubs off somehow.  Or more likely they keep listening to their sage political consultants.  

 

5 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It was always going to end this way, Dem constituencies are more vulnerable to the shutdown and the GOP was not going to cave. Extremely predictable.  
 

And in pure team sports play, fucking people up with healthcare costs that the GOP votes for helps the Dems, too. 

Along those lines of vunerability, I think the air traffic thing with Thanksgiving coming up would have forced the hands of the Rs moreso than SNAP.  I think another week would have broke them.  

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Posted

I'm not overly pissed off over this.  

What does irritate me is the timing.  The Trump administration was in the middle of deciding not to feed poor American families.  That wasn't some inevitable outcome of the shutdown, it was a choice he was fighting at the highest level for.  If the Democrats can't message that, then I just don't fucking know what they can win on.  Did anyone see any Republican Senator asked about that: "The government currently has the funds and the legal obligation to feed American families below the poverty level: do you agree with the President's decision to not feed them as a way of pressuring the Democrats?"  Give it another week for that play out.  

But, while this is a fight that the Democrats needed to fight, it was obvious the Republicans were not going to give up the ACA firebombing.  So what did the Dems get? To me, the big thing was a short timetable until the next fight.  Come January 30th, we come to another decision point.  But during that fight, SNAP will be fully funded.  And while I think Democrats win on Trump defunding SNAP, I also get that Democrats don't want poor kids going hungry.  The biggest problem with the Democrats here is that they would rather govern than battle.  They need to get ready to battle, because it's either fight or capitulate. 

 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The biggest problem with the Democrats here is that they would rather govern than battle.

 

That's the whole problem though. Republicans have demonstrated that they flat out cannot govern. The Dems needed to let them continue to not govern. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

Of course.

How does one get to be a senator and yet have so little courage, so little backbone, so little intelligence, and so little strategic thinking?

A whole lot of this. Its really the one thing DC politicians are good at. 

bjwrestler.gif.88bb6a963a393024ab5fc0b055314cfe.gif

 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Processing that as praise for Republicans and not a total fuckup by Dems is a choice. 

 

Everything is a total fuckup by Dems according the "we're losing because of messaging" crowd. The republic will fall, and Democratic historians will blame the Democratic Party instead of the actual perpetrators. It's self-crippling. It's blind to the game at hand. It's also evidently an addiction.

As to the post, what is not praiseful about the word "masterful?" 

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Posted
1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Not for nothing.

They cleaned up last Tuesday.

“Cleaned up”….  A handful of local and state races?? Shiiiiiiittttttt

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, kevwun said:

We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas.

I heard Sen.  Shaheen explaining on the radio why she voted yes.  She explained that the Pubs "told us they wouldn't do anything more and this was the best we could get!".   Oh gosh, they told you that??   We shit then it all makes sense!!   

Edited by Horn Dog
spelling correction
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