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CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk


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I thought it might be constructive to have a thread for any political discussions that surround the coronavirus to keep from cluttering the Daily Texan thread pertaining to that topic.

Currently, the CDC has issued a Warning Level 3 (avoid nonessential travel) to Wuhan, China although one cannot travel there anyway since the Chinese government has closed all transport.

Will be watching to see how this drives the haphazard CBP & DHS policies currently in place.

 

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I'm not sure that a political discussion should be had on this yet, but I will say that every single tweet from the Daily Texan thread purporting to show someone collapsing in the street has come from conspiracy theorists with a right wing bent - ranging from associations with Info Wars to Prison Planet or whatever. They're also seems to be an odd number that are very supportive of Brexit.

I won't say that those videos are false, because they do clearly show people falling down. But it's impossible to track down their provenance and when those events actually occurred. I'm sure it's not too hard to find similar videos and say OMG THIS IS HAPPENING NOW!1!!1 I'm especially suspect because I haven't seen anything remotely similar yet seen from actual news sources picking these up.

Finally, I'm not going to exactly pull the racism card on this, but several of the tweeters also show a long history of Sinophobia - like those with the bat soup thing. I did some digging on that and it is apparently an extremely uncommon dish to have. Gross as fuck admittedly, but they're running with it like it's almost a casual everyday meal.

Now, everything above may have changed since I did a little light internet sleuthing last night, because I haven't checked again this morning (we've been rearranging workplaces on our floor), but so far I'm skeptical due to the sources for those tweets. 

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25 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'm not sure that a political discussion should be had on this yet, but I will say that every single tweet from the Daily Texan thread purporting to show someone collapsing in the street has come from conspiracy theorists with a right wing bent - ranging from associations with Info Wars to Prison Planet or whatever. They're also seems to be an odd number that are very supportive of Brexit.

There's definitely a larger conversation to be had about the large-scale psychological reflexive fear/hatred of "globalism" we're experiencing in many countries (particularly western countries).  At our core, we're animals who are regularly ruled by our amygdala and the fear response it creates.  Biologically, that has some advantages.  Hell, it may have a distinct biological advantage in the case of a pandemic (turn inward, shelter you and yours, avoid contact with "the other").  Neighboring village comes down with a plague, you pull up the drawbridge and man the walls.  And you and your tribe survive.

From "America First" to Brexit to anti-immigrant movements in dozens of countries to  "globalist" becoming a pejorative, we have seen a broad social counter-reaction to society becoming more global and porous.  It's much harder to maintain our insular tribes (which biology and our amygdala tells us are a good thing, our tribe keeps us safe) in this era.  Which is frightening, probably on a deeply subconscious level.  We are biologically wired to be tribal creatures; circumvent that wiring with a reality that includes easily perceived things like race-mixing, different languages everywhere, fluid movements of people who are alien to us, etc., and that's some scary shit.  

Biology is indeed destiny, at least in large part.  It ain't all bad, it ain't all good.  It's just the way we are, so we need to figure out how to deal with it, and how to determine when it's to our advantage vs. when it's not.

Edited by Brisketexan
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7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

... to  "globalist" becoming a pejorative, ...

We have enough problems with local political power evaporating to the federal level.  Supporters of globalist political structure want to cede national sovereignty to an even smaller and less responsive group of people.  I prefer more local control.

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37 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'm not sure that a political discussion should be had on this yet, but I will say that every single tweet from the Daily Texan thread purporting to show someone collapsing in the street has come from conspiracy theorists with a right wing bent - ranging from associations with Info Wars to Prison Planet or whatever. They're also seems to be an odd number that are very supportive of Brexit.

 

Well, that was one of the reasons I began something over here; didn't want all that to get in a back-and-forth when it was obvious that other members were trying to give real time data and travel updates since other members have business and work and family all over the globe.

But yes, ripe for fear of 'other' and other social political influences for certain. Creating a thread made a landing spot for those people to go if they are sent away from the Daily Texan and still wish to discuss that stuff.

 

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1 minute ago, bernorange said:

We have enough problems with local political power evaporating to the federal level.  Supporters of globalist political structure want to cede national sovereignty to an even smaller and less responsive group of people.  I prefer more local control.

And that viewpoint is not without merit.  But when local control becomes insular provincialism and economically and culturally stifling, it's a bad thing.  My view is very Oracle at Delphi -- all things in moderation.

After all, there's no arguing that we've seen huge social and economic benefits from expanding beyond the "local village" economic model.  Being able to sell/market/ship goods over some distance expands economic activity, growth, and opportunity, raising the collective standard of living -- note that this is first expressed on a moderately larger level (think statewide), then nationwide, then worldwide.  And yes, with every such phenomenon, there are downsides as well.

My interest (at least in the context of bringing it up here) is less in discussing the relative merits of isolationist v. globalist (and yeah, just the terms are loaded as hell) as it is in pondering the biology behind our beliefs in that respect.  That seems appropriate when discussing a pandemic because that's not a topic of political belief, but rather is a topic of basic biology -- the survival instinct.  Pandemics freak us out not because we don't like a system of government, but because they can kill us, and that's bad on the most basic level.

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4 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Jesicca is the ultimate "Karen" and hopefully  is never on the Trump radar for Surgeon General - 

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Does she think it's Ebola or worse or something?  A bit of an overreaction there.

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

smocking.  hamberders.  seperation.  honered.  councel.  

Shit, man....it's all starting to make sense.

Trump is a Russian paid troll currently suffering from dementia. To go along with his narcissistic personality disorder which he’s obviously had his whole worthless life. 

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This is actually some serious shit in reality.  You have to assume massive under reporting by China as far as an honest evaluation.

This is the single best link from John Hopskins- https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Right now there are more folks that have died of this in China than have recovered.  The current numbers are 213 dead and 187 who have recovered. The death distribution I looked at the other day was mostly older folks, but a few outliers. The weird thing about the outliers is a healthy 36 year old dying for example is unusual.  Most deaths had some sort of pre=existing immune issue, but the number of supposedly heathy deaths was something to take notice of.

 

 

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11 hours ago, horn4life said:

This is actually some serious shit in reality.  You have to assume massive under reporting by China as far as an honest evaluation.

This is the single best link from John Hopskins- https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Right now there are more folks that have died of this in China than have recovered.  The current numbers are 213 dead and 187 who have recovered. The death distribution I looked at the other day was mostly older folks, but a few outliers. The weird thing about the outliers is a healthy 36 year old dying for example is unusual.  Most deaths had some sort of pre=existing immune issue, but the number of supposedly heathy deaths was something to take notice of.

 

 

Good points. We have to remember "healthy" in Wuhan may not be healthy anywhere else. Wuhan has some of the worst air pollution in China, which may naturally predispose its citizens to suffer more from this virus. 

https://oem.bmj.com/content/76/8/560

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On 1/24/2020 at 10:58 AM, bolverk said:

I'm not sure that a political discussion should be had on this yet, but I will say that every single tweet from the Daily Texan thread purporting to show someone collapsing in the street has come from conspiracy theorists with a right wing bent - ranging from associations with Info Wars to Prison Planet or whatever. They're also seems to be an odd number that are very supportive of Brexit.

I won't say that those videos are false, because they do clearly show people falling down. But it's impossible to track down their provenance and when those events actually occurred. I'm sure it's not too hard to find similar videos and say OMG THIS IS HAPPENING NOW!1!!1 I'm especially suspect because I haven't seen anything remotely similar yet seen from actual news sources picking these up.

Finally, I'm not going to exactly pull the racism card on this, but several of the tweeters also show a long history of Sinophobia - like those with the bat soup thing. I did some digging on that and it is apparently an extremely uncommon dish to have. Gross as fuck admittedly, but they're running with it like it's almost a casual everyday meal.

Now, everything above may have changed since I did a little light internet sleuthing last night, because I haven't checked again this morning (we've been rearranging workplaces on our floor), but so far I'm skeptical due to the sources for those tweets. 

I think it’s time to have that political discussion.  I’ve read a couple of books by David Quammen on zoonotic diseases (highly recommend “Spillover” and “The Chimp and the River” and he seems to know his shit.  He’s calling out Trump for the proposed cuts to the CDC budget that impacts their ability to react and fight new virus outbreaks that are occurring more frequently.

DAVIES: Right. Now, there've been some reporting suggesting that the Trump administration has, over the last couple of years, reduced the government's ability to fight a viral epidemic. Do you have an opinion about that?

QUAMMEN: Yes. I think it's well documented in the Trump budgets, and it's been, I think, disastrous for the CDC and for our preparedness. My understanding is that Trump's 2020 budget proposed cutting $1.3 billion from the CDC budget. That's 20% below the 2019 level, and the 2019 level contained cuts of $750 million, including - I looked this up recently - including a proposed cut of $102 million specifically for emerging and zoonotic diseases, which is what this is. So the Trump administration budgets have been hamstringing the CDC and our ability to react to circumstances just like this.

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/802938289

first, fuck Trump reason #675347 for weakening humanity’s ability to respond to the next great pandemic.

Second, I’m sort of surprised this outbreak hasn’t been co-opted into an argument for Trump’s anti-globalist policies.  “Import from Detroit!  Not Wuhan!”  Fear of Brown people is a winning point for Trump with his base.  Seems like fear of pneumonia with the olds could be used similarly.

 

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-expels-three-wall-street-journal-reporters-11582100355?mod=hp_lead_pos2

China revoked the press credentials of three Wall Street Journal reporters based in Beijing, the first time the Chinese government has expelled multiple journalists simultaneously from one international news organization since the country began re-engaging with the world in the post-Mao era.

China’s Foreign Ministry said the move Wednesday was punishment for a recent opinion piece published by the Journal.

Deputy Bureau Chief Josh Chin and reporter Chao Deng, both U.S. nationals, as well as reporter Philip Wen, an Australian national, were ordered to leave the country within five days, said Jonathan Cheng, the Journal’s China bureau chief.

The expulsions by China’s Foreign Ministry followed widespread public anger at the headline on the Feb. 3 opinion piece, which referred to China as “the real sick man of Asia.” The ministry and state-media outlets had repeatedly called attention to the headline in statements and posts on social media and had threatened unspecified consequences.

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31 minutes ago, Parliament said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-expels-three-wall-street-journal-reporters-11582100355?mod=hp_lead_pos2

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

China revoked the press credentials of three Wall Street Journal reporters based in Beijing, the first time the Chinese government has expelled multiple journalists simultaneously from one international news organization since the country began re-engaging with the world in the post-Mao era.

China’s Foreign Ministry said the move Wednesday was punishment for a recent opinion piece published by the Journal.

Deputy Bureau Chief Josh Chin and reporter Chao Deng, both U.S. nationals, as well as reporter Philip Wen, an Australian national, were ordered to leave the country within five days, said Jonathan Cheng, the Journal’s China bureau chief.

The expulsions by China’s Foreign Ministry followed widespread public anger at the headline on the Feb. 3 opinion piece, which referred to China as “the real sick man of Asia.” The ministry and state-media outlets had repeatedly called attention to the headline in statements and posts on social media and had threatened unspecified consequences.

 

 

Sadly, China does not have freedom of speech.

I was curious about what pissed them off so much about the op/ed piece and found some quotes from government officials stating it was racist and found a link to the original. Other than their mention of it being a "species-hopping bat virus*" in the first line, it was a pretty standard analysis of what could be the economic fallout from it. Overall, a fairly well presented worst case scenario for China.

Glad to see too that they're getting roundly criticized by the international press for kicking them out.

Original op/ed wasn't behind a paywall for me if anyone else is interested in reading it:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-is-the-real-sick-man-of-asia-11580773677

*Pretty sure the bat soup shit has been debunked and the video of that woman wasn't even from China. I'm guessing that's what sent them off about the racism element and perhaps what they felt they needed to use as cover for kicking the journalists out.

Edited by bolverk
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3 hours ago, bolverk said:

Sadly, China does not have freedom of speech.

I was curious about what pissed them off so much about the op/ed piece and found some quotes from government officials stating it was racist and found a link to the original. Other than their mention of it being a "species-hopping bat virus*" in the first line, it was a pretty standard analysis of what could be the economic fallout from it. Overall, a fairly well presented worst case scenario for China.

Glad to see too that they're getting roundly criticized by the international press for kicking them out.

Original op/ed wasn't behind a paywall for me if anyone else is interested in reading it:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-is-the-real-sick-man-of-asia-11580773677

*Pretty sure the bat soup shit has been debunked and the video of that woman wasn't even from China. I'm guessing that's what sent them off about the racism element and perhaps what they felt they needed to use as cover for kicking the journalists out.

There is also the element that in the 1800's The Sick Man in Asia was a supposed reference to China. Same thing was used to describe the Ottomans in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Damn europeans. Fucking up free speech for the future. 

Oh- and they may be right. China's economy is quite dependent on others. They need a lot of external imports. Like food. 

Edited by InkaUtexas
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Banana plantations in the Philippines are hurting is one example of how my new home country is being effected. It has also hurt tourism and is delaying projects.

If it spreads in South Korea and Japan and travel from there is banned it will hurt tourism and industry even more.

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I have a sense that this virus is only just beginning to make its impacts felt on several fronts. The difficulty lies with it arriving as the same time as the flu season and the measles season. (IIRC, measles typically peaks in April/May in America but thankfully most here are immunized). Infectious disease is infectious. The travel bans will both hurt economies but may help with spread of disease. Tough decisions all around.

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21 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

There is also the element that in the 1800's The Sick Man in Asia was a supposed reference to China. Same thing was used to describe the Ottomans in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Damn europeans. Fucking up free speech for the future. 

Oh- and they may be right. China's economy is quite dependent on others. They need a lot of external imports. Like food. 

And if the containers aren’t being shipped elsewhere in the world with goods, they aren’t coming back to China with foodstuffs.  

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13 hours ago, RayDog said:

Banana plantations in the Philippines are hurting is one example of how my new home country is being effected. It has also hurt tourism and is delaying projects.

If it spreads in South Korea and Japan and travel from there is banned it will hurt tourism and industry even more.

How is the supply of 19 year-old midgets?  Are you in trouble, and does Surly need to go all Ross Perot and fly you out of there?

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

How is the supply of 19 year-old midgets?  Are you in trouble, and does Surly need to go all Ross Perot and fly you out of there?

I am good. As I said in the other thread I am waiting for flight from Korea to stop, as that means 1000+ more girls will be dateless. I am going to ride out this storm as best I can, and hope I survive the inevitable infection.

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I am good. As I said in the other thread I am waiting for flight from Korea to stop, as that means 1000+ more girls will be dateless. I am going to ride out this storm as best I can, and hope I survive the inevitable infection.

Which kind of infection?
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