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11 minutes ago, tbone_ said:


I don’t disagree. As a developer, I often wonder what it would be like to create something with an intended useful life of forever.

That's Stabilization and Disposition in the model.

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The old joke about "Your gun was made by the lowest bidder" isn't too terribly far off in this situation


Not a single customer I know of wants to spend as much as possible, whether it's widgets or concrete.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Regarding the Pantheon, yes it’s fantastic, but it also has had a shitload of people looking after it, unlike a condo in Miami housing plebes.  

3 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Regarding the Pantheon, yes it’s fantastic, but it also has had a shitload of people looking after it, unlike a condo in Miami housing plebes.  

That bitch sat empty for like 2,200 years with no maintanence whatsoever probably, but yeah point taken.

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That bitch sat empty for like 2,200 years with no maintanence whatsoever probably, but yeah point taken.

You probably know more about that than me, was just saying something constructed with that kind of care and slave labor probably would last longer.  

2 hours ago, ROFL BOX said:

The only thing I find wrong about that TikTok video is that the person taking it wasn't backing away from that space @ the same time they shot the clip.

Are you saying, in your professional opinion, that was not a safe area? 

51 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The early 80's was a low point in construction practices nationwide. Hurricane Andrew for better, and worse has made building inspections a much more stringent practice in most normal locations.

Does this happen in other first world countries or we the only ones with crumbling infrastructure, negligent contractors, etc.? I can't see this happening in say Japan or Germany. 

8 minutes ago, lmao said:

Does this happen in other first world countries or we the only ones with crumbling infrastructure, negligent contractors, etc.? I can't see this happening in say Japan or Germany. 

We have for the most part a pretty good building inspection process country, and generally good code enforcement.  That's coming from someone in the residential  side of the building inspection/ code enforcement process though.

I'd say both Japan, and Germany have a more stringently enforced code than we do generally. Other first world countries ? Don't have any first hand knowledge, but I'd bet Europe as a whole is better than we are.

Contractors, developers, and building codes (if they even exist)  in second, and Third world countries ?  Just google building failures, and you'll get a lot of hits.

Point is taken though, as we're THE economic engine of the world, and our shit is in bad shape in far too many places.

28 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

Chinese drywall was made with slave labor

Did they make 'em wear pieces of flair ?

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Did they make 'em wear pieces of flair ?

Pretty sure the wall wore pieces of flair, or pieces of hair, inside it.  

Edited by Judge Roybeanbag

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

Chinese drywall was made with slave labor

The Chinamen are not the issue, Dude.

The Pantheon doesn't have steel reinforcement. Steel can be the weak spot. Also blah blah blah secret cement formula.

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

Chinese drywall was made with slave labor

You have to say Chinese government made drywall.

3 hours ago, tbone_ said:


I wonder if the Pantheon, or something like St Peter’s Basilica, could even be constructed today with the same level of quality, craftsmanship, and level of detail for any amount of money.

it was done with a lot less drawings, that is for sure.

15 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

The "owners" will file for bankruptcy before the first case reaches court.  Those same "owners" probably have a representative in Grand Cayman as I type this drawing up a corporate charter for their new shell corporation.

I've only read a little of this thread, so I don't know if this has already been discussed, but wouldn't they likely be criminally negligent here with the clearly documented lack of maintenence to the building?

Edited by immortal13

7 hours ago, immortal13 said:

I've only read a little of this thread, so I don't know if this has already been discussed, but wouldn't they likely be criminally negligent here with the clearly documented lack of maintenence to the building?

It's a Condo. Most of the "owners" are likely dead now. 

Yup. Pity the one fool on the homeowners board that survived and it comes to light that they made a decision to defer the maintenance in light of the engineering report. 

17 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So how common is it for an estate to sue another estate?

We gonna find out soon enough...

54 minutes ago, CycleTex87 said:

Yup. Pity the one fool on the homeowners board that survived and it comes to light that they made a decision to defer the maintenance in light of the engineering report. 

He/She would just blame it on the other members of the board.

Yup. Pity the one fool on the homeowners board that survived and it comes to light that they made a decision to defer the maintenance in light of the engineering report. 

Guessing their CC&Rs probably required a significant majority vote of all of the owners for the huge assessment it was going to take for the repairs. Based on 52 years of life in this country, I’m assuming it probably wasn’t easy to get people to agree to do an uncomfortable but very necessary thing.

Owning a condo seems like it sucks.

I never got it either.  Of course people buy/rent them to make $ in the summer (I'm about to do that, too) and might spend a week or two there on season; I'm all for that.  But living full-time in one, just can't get with that. Blech.

5 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I never got it either.  Of course people buy/rent them to make $ in the summer (I'm about to do that, too) and might spend a week or two there on season; I'm all for that.  But living full-time in one, just can't get with that. Blech.

Seems like owning a home with zero of the benefits & more of the negatives.

It's owning something in a location that you can't afford to just build a house.  Not for me either, but neither is living in the suburbs with an HOA, but I do that.

38 minutes ago, lmao said:

Owning a condo seems like it sucks.

I lived in a townhome for a few years, never again.

4 hours ago, lmao said:

Owning a condo seems like it sucks.

There's some benefits - living right near a decent beach would be cool, as this one was.

0fa5e77e-c56b-40bc-a955-9d0ec039996b.png

We have friends who live in condos in downtown Austin, and they have short walks to work, and plenty of stuff to do, but in that case they are saving themselves a lot time (and frustration) driving.

In both instances, these people are living in places they could not afford, and are saving themselves a lot of time.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/02/us/7-year-old-condo-collapse-victim/index.html

Quote

A member of City of Miami Fire-Rescue has lost his 7-year-old daughter in the Surfside, Florida, building collapse, officials said Friday.

The girl's remains were recovered Thursday night in the rubble by members of the department's urban search and rescue team, Chief Joseph Zahralban said in a statement.

Quote

Miami-Dade County Fire Chief Alan Cominsky said the firefighter was not part of that rescue process. His task force comrades found the remains and then called him over, Cominsky told reporters.

As a dad of a young daughter, holy fuck I can't imagine that at all.

How they let them stay this long is mind bottling.

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

How they let them stay this long is mind bottling.

This is a separate condo building seven miles away from the one that collapsed last week.

On 7/1/2021 at 6:00 PM, tbone_ said:


I wonder if the Pantheon, or something like St Peter’s Basilica, could even be constructed today with the same level of quality, craftsmanship, and level of detail for any amount of money.

I highly doubt it. 

11 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

I highly doubt it. 

I would too on the Pantheon, because it was almost entirely built by slaves. Labor costs were low. And if a few kicked the bucket on the way, no problem.

The current St. Peter's a 1500- 1600 didn't use slaves per se, but probably a lot of serfs, The next step up on the social ladder. Not much better. But at least they got what amounts to maybe a couple hundred $ a month today. The basilicas on the site before that definitely used slaves.

Edited by phdhorn

5 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I would too, because those structures were almost entirely built by slaves. Labor costs were low. And if a few kicked the bucket on the way, no problem.

Buildings like St Peter’s, The Pantheon, The Parthenon, La Sagrada Familia, the US Capitol building, etc, will never be built again.   Our lack of patience for a project that takes decades to complete correctly would never suffice in our instantaneous world.  

1 minute ago, Trey3216 said:

Our lack of patience for a project that takes decades to complete correctly would never suffice in our instantaneous world.  

I-35 constant construction says hi

1 minute ago, GopherRock said:

Sagrada Familia says hi.

It does.  But that’s only because it already exists and they just keep adding to it to work to completion.   It would never be started today 

4 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

I-35 constant construction says hi

Well, how else are we supposed to get auto parts from chihuahua  to Detroit?

Edited by Trey3216

6 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

It does.  But that’s only because it already exists and they just keep adding to it to work to completion.   It would never be started today 

And so we end up with cathedrals like the one in Houston, which looks like a food court in the Med Center. 

22 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Buildings like St Peter’s, The Pantheon, The Parthenon, La Sagrada Familia, the US Capitol building, etc, will never be built again.   Our lack of patience for a project that takes decades to complete correctly would never suffice in our instantaneous world.  

Speaking of the Pantheon, my grandson toured it with his class several years ago..

 

822DBA61-09A4-4F9A-B0BE-998E414BD1CE.jpeg

Better explanation of the legal problems and how the repairs would have been/should have been made and such surround the Surfside condo collapse.

“An important thing to know about Champlain Towers South is that it’s a condominium. Different people own individual units, and when repairs need to be made to the building as a whole, they’ve got to find a way to pay for them collectively. They elect a board to manage these kinds of decisions. All the way back in 2018, the condo board retained an inspector who assessed the stability of the tower. He found a “major error” in the integrity of the bottom floor of the building. Residents were informed of the problem but spent years negotiating how and whether to fix millions of dollars of damage.

 “There were structural deficiencies identified that probably went back all the way to the construction of this building. And a lot of it has to do just with the fact that the pool deck was built flat, which is a huge no-no. I mean, even me, as a non-construction person, knows you don’t build flat.”

“You don’t build flat because water accumulates on flat, and then it will seep down and cause structural damage. At least in Florida, you don’t build a flat roof. You build a sloped roof so that if it rains, it doesn’t pool on your roof and cause leaking. But what this engineer report found is that going back to the very beginning of this building basically, they built a concrete slab that was flat for the pool deck. And what that meant over years and decades is that water, as it accumulated from rain or from storm surges, which happen every once in a while, it was seeping down into that and causing changes at the geologic level. This was accumulating under there and causing issues on the pillars that the building stands on, that the whole property stands on.“

Do we know if residents in the building fought the repairs, said, “Maybe this isn’t necessary”?

We do know, actually. USA Today had a fantastic story out on Monday evening—heartbreaking story too, though, because it really documents, over the course of the last couple years, the condo board had been pushing for residents to get on board for these repairs. And they couldn’t get people on the same page. And the longer they pushed it back, the higher the costs got, because the repairs—it accelerates if you don’t address it. And because it needed to be this collectivized kind of decision, they couldn’t reach that kind of decision and they couldn’t make the repairs that needed to be done.

https://slate.com/business/2021/06/miami-condo-collapse-florida-building-industry-crisis.amp?__twitter_impression=true
 

It is a fascinating read honestly. Tragedy all the way around. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

I-35 constant construction says hi

Umm, I-35 was never designed to be completed.  It will keep providing certain companies with a steady income for decades to come.

14 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Umm, I-35 was never designed to be completed.  It will keep providing certain companies with a steady income for generations to come.

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