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4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Trimming & cooking weight would explain some of the lost revenue on brisket.  It doesn't explain the ribs, and definitely doesn't explain the chicken (they quote "1/2 chicken" is $8, so a whole chicken is $16, regardless of weight loss).

Now we're down to $54M annual, assuming the 36% number is correct (which seems pretty extreme), plus all the other main courses, sides, desserts and drinks.

Total bullshit.

I assume the numbers are basically BS.  Chicken isn't sold by the pound so that's pre-cooked weight for sure.  There is some trimming on ribs, especially if they start with full spares.  The numbers might match the best Saturday ever at their top location.

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3 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

I assume the numbers are basically BS.  Chicken isn't sold by the pound so that's pre-cooked weight for sure. 

He didn't quote weight on the chicken, he said "500 chickens".  So, if a half chicken is $8, a whole chicken is $16.  No weight involved.

I don't really care, I just thought his bragging was really odd, given I don't recall ever hearing about this chain.  I could see each location MAYBE doing similar business to a Rudy's outlet, but beyond that, color me extremely skeptical.  Anyway, sounds like it sucks.

 

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19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Trimming & cooking weight would explain some of the lost revenue on brisket.  It doesn't explain the ribs, and definitely doesn't explain the chicken (they quote "1/2 chicken" is $8, so a whole chicken is $16, regardless of weight loss).

Now we're down to $54M annual, assuming the 36% number is correct (which seems pretty extreme), plus all the other main courses, sides, desserts and drinks.

Total bullshit.

what is the chance it is that across all the locations? even then it's super high $$ wise

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40 minutes ago, pch said:

Cooper's in FW and Hard 8 both fit this profile.  Can't see why anyone would go to either of them as they don't even rate mediocre.

I’ve always heard the Hard Eight in Stephenville was good. It’s a solid 30 minutes from I 20 so I’ve never been. 
 

I liked the Brady location before it closed. 
 

The Coppell location is decent. They have a large and interesting menu. It’s good to change it up. 

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3 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Morenos bbq is badass. Brisket and jalapeno cheddar sausage was tits. Ribs were sticky but perfect chew. Gouda mac and cheese was a nice touch. Shocked they didnt have much of a line

I grab lunch there every month or so.  Pretty consistently good.

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Where are you with bbq prices? I feel like more and more (over the last two years) they have really gotten where I can't afford to go out and eat it at several locations.  I had a friend at Hutchins in McKinney the other day and asked for prices....

Brisket...$31

Beef Rib...$31

Pork Ribs...$24

Sausage....$24

Turkey....$24

Chicken...$20

Pulled Pork...$24

Does this stuff get to a point that you can't afford it any more or you definitely get more selective on how many times you will go out to eat?  My friend and his family (5) went and it was $160.  Another friend and his wife went and it was $80.  Think of the ribs that would mean a rack of ribs (3lbs) would cost you $75. I assume as long as there are lines restaurants aren't too worried about the prices because folks are lined up, just wonder if there is a tipping point to the bbq craze?  If lunch is going to cost $25 and up then you can get a steak and two sides at Texas Roadhouse for the same price in comparison.   

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59 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

At this point you're paying nice restaurant prices and not really getting any of the benefits of eating at a nice restaurant.  People don't seem to mind though.

Last week at Hutchins McKinney. 
.25lb brisket, 6 ribs, half chicken, 2 sides and 2 drinks. 
 

$60 before tip. It’s getting too expensive for a lunch. 

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It's just more incentive for me to smoke my own.  Grocery store prices on brisket have definitely gone up, but it seems like I can usually still hit $4/lb.  I don't really pay that much attention to pork rib prices, I just buy 'em.

One thing to account for is the difference between cooked weight and uncooked weight.  Earlier this week someone posted an analysis that said cooked is only 36% of uncooked weight, after a certain amount of other loss.  Seems extreme, I'd usually guess 60%, but I didn't do the work, I'm not sure what all went into it.

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31 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

One thing to account for is the difference between cooked weight and uncooked weight.  Earlier this week someone posted an analysis that said cooked is only 36% of uncooked weight, after a certain amount of other loss.  Seems extreme, I'd usually guess 60%, but I didn't do the work, I'm not sure what all went into it.

That calculation was from a LeRoy & Lewis brisket.  They did a video trimming the brisket and weighing all of the components and I just jotted down the notes while watching the video.  Some places probably do not trim brisket as aggressively as L&L is not a brisket place, but I suspect the average is 45-50% of a untrimmed brisket.

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It seems that barbecue places are finding ways to keep selling.  More and more sandwiches, poppers, tacos, and other menu items are showing up.  Things that don't need a half pound of brisket to fill you up.  Many places have specialty sandwiches that combine proteins, cutting the cost of a full sliced brisket sandwich with sausage, pulled pork, or something else.  Smoked brisket burgers are also hitting more menus - great use of the trimmings.

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11 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

It seems that barbecue places are finding ways to keep selling.  More and more sandwiches, poppers, tacos, and other menu items are showing up.  Things that don't need a half pound of brisket to fill you up.  Many places have specialty sandwiches that combine proteins, cutting the cost of a full sliced brisket sandwich with sausage, pulled pork, or something else.  Smoked brisket burgers are also hitting more menus - great use of the trimmings.

Our family gets the spicy chop mix from Rudy's as much as anything.  $14/lb, makes 3 decent sammiches and comes with the bread.  Allegedly brisket, turkey, pork loin and prime rib.  I'm guessing there's not a lot of prime rib in the mix.

Sometimes you just gotta eat.

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On 12/30/2021 at 8:44 AM, Landomatic said:

X-posting from the Dallas BBQ thread...

Sorry to have to report this...went to Terry Black's (Dallas) last week and it was really really meh. I took the family who was in from out of town for Christmas and of course, I oversold the hell out of it to them, only to show up and have it be way below average. Brisket was roast beef and sausage was so overcooked, we almost couldn't eat it. Pork ribs were just okay and they're normally great. Horribly disappointing top to bottom.

It was 2 days before Christmas so maybe they had their C team working holiday hours or something? Or maybe some were out with Covid? I know whoever was running the pits definitely wasn't the same guy that was running them last time we were there when everything was great. Hoping whatever the reason, it was just a glitch and they'll be back to normal next time, but that drastic of a swing in consistency is concerning.

Went there the Saturday before Christmas and it was really good. Brisket, sausage, and ribs were great. And the black margarita is so damn good. 

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8 hours ago, DallasSooner said:

Where are you with bbq prices? I feel like more and more (over the last two years) they have really gotten where I can't afford to go out and eat it at several locations.  I had a friend at Hutchins in McKinney the other day and asked for prices....

Brisket...$31

Beef Rib...$31

Pork Ribs...$24

Sausage....$24

Turkey....$24

Chicken...$20

Pulled Pork...$24

Does this stuff get to a point that you can't afford it any more or you definitely get more selective on how many times you will go out to eat?  My friend and his family (5) went and it was $160.  Another friend and his wife went and it was $80.  Think of the ribs that would mean a rack of ribs (3lbs) would cost you $75. I assume as long as there are lines restaurants aren't too worried about the prices because folks are lined up, just wonder if there is a tipping point to the bbq craze?  If lunch is going to cost $25 and up then you can get a steak and two sides at Texas Roadhouse for the same price in comparison.   

I go to expensive bbq places maybe 4 times a year for bbq. Terry Black's I go more to drink the black margaritas, hang on the upstairs patio, and maybe get a cheap chopped beef sandwich. 

The rest of the time if I want bbq I just get a $10 2 meet sandwich at rudys. Or a brisket stuffed potato

I never get a beef rib. That's the easiest beef to smoke yourself for a fraction of the price. 

Edited by Hermanator
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On 12/31/2021 at 2:50 PM, DalTxHornFan said:

I'm no longer a fan of any locations of either of these chains.

I went to the Coopers in Llano a couple of years ago and it was still good. Still have the comp pot of beans. 

Growing up the Coopers in Mason during the late 90s and early 2000s was a favorite stop in trips to visit the grandparents

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Where are you with bbq prices? I feel like more and more (over the last two years) they have really gotten where I can't afford to go out and eat it at several locations.  I had a friend at Hutchins in McKinney the other day and asked for prices....
Brisket...$31
Beef Rib...$31
Pork Ribs...$24
Sausage....$24
Turkey....$24
Chicken...$20
Pulled Pork...$24
Does this stuff get to a point that you can't afford it any more or you definitely get more selective on how many times you will go out to eat?  My friend and his family (5) went and it was $160.  Another friend and his wife went and it was $80.  Think of the ribs that would mean a rack of ribs (3lbs) would cost you $75. I assume as long as there are lines restaurants aren't too worried about the prices because folks are lined up, just wonder if there is a tipping point to the bbq craze?  If lunch is going to cost $25 and up then you can get a steak and two sides at Texas Roadhouse for the same price in comparison.   

Part of the issue is craft pits overreliance on prime grade beef and micro farmed proteins. Texas barbecue is rooted in butchers smoking scraps to make delicious meals.

As much as I enjoy the craft guys near me: Hurtado, Derek Allen, Panther City etc my usual place in Arlington remains Davids, descended from Sonny Bryan’s. Brisket recently went to $17.95 a pound. Plus he does a killer ham at $12.95 that we buy instead of deli meat. It’s all you need, nothing you don’t.
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On 12/30/2021 at 12:35 PM, tigol said:


It does suck. I was at one for some corporate sales thing and the cutter peeled the bark off of each brisket before slicing it.

So, I got the chicken and some jalapeño poppers. That is hard to fuck up, but they managed. Fuck Hard 8.

 

0:40 mark
 

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11 hours ago, DallasSooner said:

Where are you with bbq prices? I feel like more and more (over the last two years) they have really gotten where I can't afford to go out and eat it at several locations.  I had a friend at Hutchins in McKinney the other day and asked for prices....

Brisket...$31

Beef Rib...$31

Pork Ribs...$24

Sausage....$24

Turkey....$24

Chicken...$20

Pulled Pork...$24

Does this stuff get to a point that you can't afford it any more or you definitely get more selective on how many times you will go out to eat?  My friend and his family (5) went and it was $160.  Another friend and his wife went and it was $80.  Think of the ribs that would mean a rack of ribs (3lbs) would cost you $75. I assume as long as there are lines restaurants aren't too worried about the prices because folks are lined up, just wonder if there is a tipping point to the bbq craze?  If lunch is going to cost $25 and up then you can get a steak and two sides at Texas Roadhouse for the same price in comparison.   

I do this roughly once a year with a bunch of friends. As rare as it is that we can get together, we simply would rather spend the cooking time doing something else. But every time I do it in my mind I'm thinking "damn, that could buy another WSM or even a Kamado." If we did this more than once a year? I'd definitely be buying an offset smoker and doing it myself.

 

Little Miss BBQ in AZ, the guy who opened it is a Texas transplant who was active on the original Shaggy site and posted there when he opened. He's been super-successful, lines basically every day at 2 locations in AZ. I find it too salty, but my other option is Rudy's.

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12 hours ago, Hermanator said:

I never get a beef rib. That's the easiest beef to smoke yourself for a fraction of the price. 

couldn't agree more. easy enough to smoke + high priced / lb + you pay for the beef rib

i will never forget the first time i went to Cattleack and a lady like 3 people in front of me asked Todd (owner) for a small beef rib and he about lost his shit lol

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13 hours ago, Hermanator said:

I went to the Coopers in Llano a couple of years ago and it was still good. Still have the comp pot of beans. 

Growing up the Coopers in Mason during the late 90s and early 2000s was a favorite stop in trips to visit the grandparents

The Coopers in Llano isn't worth a trip anymore (nor has been for any of the probably 2-3 times a year I have been there over the last 4 or 5 years) - doesn't matter what time, the brisket is really not great. sausage has been super overcooked. only two things i got there that were really good was a steak one night and the big chop (obviously)

 

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1 hour ago, NoName said:

The Coopers in Llano isn't worth a trip anymore (nor has been for any of the probably 2-3 times a year I have been there over the last 4 or 5 years) - doesn't matter what time, the brisket is really not great. sausage has been super overcooked. only two things i got there that were really good was a steak one night and the big chop (obviously)

 

I’ve managed to avoid Cooper’s for the last couple of years, thankfully.  Only go there for visitors that want to try the hype.  Only good meat is the big pork chop, but the beans are nice………….

I ate at Hard 8 in Stephenville once.  Once.  Their business model is evidently based on feeding drunken junior aggys from Tarleton, desperate deer hunters, and ignorant 281 travelers from the Metroplex headed for Fredericksburg.  Reminded me of the “BBQ” in Amarillo I was subjected to as a mere child.  Hard 8?  Hard pass.

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I’ve managed to avoid Cooper’s for the last couple of years, thankfully.  Only go there for visitors that want to try the hype.  Only good meat is the big pork chop, but the beans are nice………….
I ate at Hard 8 in Stephenville once.  Once.  Their business model is evidently based on feeding drunken junior aggys from Tarleton, desperate deer hunters, and ignorant 281 travelers from the Metroplex headed for Fredericksburg.  Reminded me of the “BBQ” in Amarillo I was subjected to as a mere child.  Hard 8?  Hard pass.

Agree totally on Hard 8. The one in Stephenville used to be really good. Once they got investors and expanded it went to shit. That whole set up presenting an array of drying out meats just sucks. The last good meal I had there I got a steak that was not as good as what I would have gotten at Roadhouse, and wife got a selection of dried tough barbecue. Shame.
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3 hours ago, NoName said:

The Coopers in Llano isn't worth a trip anymore (nor has been for any of the probably 2-3 times a year I have been there over the last 4 or 5 years) - doesn't matter what time, the brisket is really not great. sausage has been super overcooked. only two things i got there that were really good was a steak one night and the big chop (obviously)

 

I wouldn't take a trip out there for it but I was already in town for a HS playoff game so stopped by. It's not to the level of today's top BBQ places but it's still solid and at least in 2019 still had great prices. 

Sometimes I'm in the mood for bbq or a little brisket and not wanting to pay $40 for just myself. I think there's a market for solid less expensive BBQ for sure and that's why there are so many Rudy's around. If I lived near Llano Coopers would be that for sure. 

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I wouldn't take a trip out there for it but I was already in town for a HS playoff game so stopped by. It's not to the level of today's top BBQ places but it's still solid and at least in 2019 still had great prices. 
Sometimes I'm in the mood for bbq or a little brisket and not wanting to pay $40 for just myself. I think there's a market for solid less expensive BBQ for sure and that's why there are so many Rudy's around. If I lived near Llano Coopers would be that for sure. 

$40? I totally agree that prices are pretty absurd, but if you are talking “a little bit of brisket”, $40 is hyperbole. My typical order is 1/2 lb of brisket and a link of sausage. On average that runs me about $27-28 with drink and tip.
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19 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:


$40? I totally agree that prices are pretty absurd, but if you are talking “a little bit of brisket”, $40 is hyperbole. My typical order is 1/2 lb of brisket and a link of sausage. On average that runs me about $27-28 with drink and tip.

Yeah I was exaggerating a bit. But your example is still pretty expensive. Some days I feel like a little brisket and sausage for lunch without spending $30 and can get a sandwich with both at Rudy's for $10 and it's solid. 

I think that's becoming an undeserved market as so many places jump on the "craft bbq" wagon and charge steakhouse prices. 

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Yeah I was exaggerating a bit. But your example is still pretty expensive. Some days I feel like a little brisket and sausage for lunch without spending $30 and can get a sandwich with both at Rudy's for $10 and it's solid. 
I think that's becoming an undeserved market as so many places jump on the "craft bbq" wagon and charge steakhouse prices. 

Well yeah it’s expensive, I said so myself. Rudy’s is fine. In fact, I just had some Turkey there.

But honestly, I would rather spend $15 on the “Whole Truth” sandwich (brisket and sausage) than $8 bucks for something similar at Rudy’s. Reason being is I like the taste of the brisket and sausage. When you get the chopped sandwich at Rudy’s, it just tastes like sauce.
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10 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Never so this before but, why are some of the ends wrapped in foil?

Keep the end of the flat from drying out, I'd suspect.  But in looking at the pictures, the point ends are foil tipped.  Guess they don't want the ends burnt?

Edited by dcbc
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1 minute ago, dcbc said:

Keep the end of the flat from drying out, I suspect.

Yup.  It's fairly common among pitmasters that don't wrap their briskets, but want to protect the very tip of the flat.  That's how I've done it for many, many years.

Just the tip.

 

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18 minutes ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Never so this before but, why are some of the ends wrapped in foil?

 

9 minutes ago, dcbc said:

Keep the end of the flat from drying out, I'd suspect.  But in looking at the pictures, the point ends are foil tipped.  Guess they don't want the ends burnt?

 

6 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Yup.  It's fairly common among pitmasters that don't wrap their briskets, but want to protect the very tip of the flat.  That's how I've done it for many, many years.

Just the tip.

 

video explaining it but utee94 has it right - protect thin corner and to try and keep it from curling, basically the places he has been (Truth, Terry Blacks, his popup spot in Chicago) as a precautionary thing.

 

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12 minutes ago, dcbc said:

But in that picture, they appear to have the end of the point wrapped?

I didn't look at it very closely.  If so, then it could be they're pointed toward the fire and foiled to minimize the direct heat and prevent overcooking?

I point the fatty end toward the fire as well, but have never needed to wrap it to prevent overcooking.  I just foil the tip of the flat, which is away from the fire, after cooking for 4 or 5 hours.

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18 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I didn't look at it very closely.  If so, then it could be they're pointed toward the fire and foiled to minimize the direct heat and prevent overcooking?

I point the fatty end toward the fire as well, but have never needed to wrap it to prevent overcooking.  I just foil the tip of the flat, which is away from the fire, after cooking for 4 or 5 hours.

That's what I figured.  But like you say, never felt like I needed to protect the point much.

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