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Saw this story, and it didn't really fit anywhere else. Did a search and didn't see a thread on this topic, and thought it was appropriate for CR. Texas leading the way again. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Nivek said:

So tell me why again they should be tax exempt again?  

Because you really, really, really don’t want religious organizations actually financially backing and running political candidates.

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Mehta got his hands on the entire McAllen production and has been tweeting comparisons. Apparently the official source was reported as saying they sent a cease and desist letter but allowed the crew to finish their Saturday show and that they would be talking to the church in private.

Again, it is pretty sad when groups of people that want to cut funding for the arts don't have the awareness of what makes the arts such a necessary part of society. This church stole the original from the original creators w/o compensation, acknowledgement, changed it, and then lied about having permission.

 

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16 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Because you really, really, really don’t want religious organizations actually financially backing and running political candidates.

They aren’t already doing this?

Hm GIF by MOODMAN

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35 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Because you really, really, really don’t want religious organizations actually financially backing and running political candidates.

Actually a very, very good point.  Not so much the backing, but the active supporting from the pulpit.

Revoke tax exemption for 501C religious orgs and the bad ones will stop pretending and the 75% that don't likely will start.

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1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

Because you really, really, really don’t want religious organizations actually financially backing and running political candidates.

LOL wut?

Show me the rock you're living under, send the GPS coordinates, and I will free you of your absurd level of ignorance.

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29 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

It’s always a threat to end democracy. Because that’s what they want 

Give us no taxes or we will make a theocracy. 

How about fuck you

Taxation without representation is tyranny.

They were specifically excluded from the start so we wouldn’t become a theocracy.

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11 hours ago, troph said:

Fuck every single mother fucking hater. Got it? Humanity is diverse, probably by your own God’s design you ignorant fucks. you can’t handle it fuck the fucking fuck off, you have no place to belong in a modern society and you should be shunned into silence. If I’m not clear but you wonder if I’m talking to you or about you, your suspicion is correct. I am. Fuck off, America isn’t yours and your whitewashed bullshit American history isn’t going to fly. Your gospel will die an unceremoniously quiet death within the next two generations because you don’t even know what your gospel means. Again fuck off.  

While I agree with your overall sentiment, I disagree that their particular brand of gospel will cease to exist. History contains ample evidence that it ebbs and flows in various forms. I'm not an American history scholar, but seems to me that once the Pilgrims and then the Puritans landed on this rocky soil, they've been struggling with various forms of economic desires and more fleshly ones and individuals and groups have been suffering for it ever since. And elsewhere in the world as well.

The pale blue dot....

 

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10 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

It’s always a threat to end democracy. Because that’s what they want 

Give us no taxes or we will make a theocracy. 

How about fuck you

Seriously. It always dissolves into yeah well we’re going to have a civil war then and kill all the liberals if you don’t let us do whatever we want 

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Posted (edited)

Church attendance is plummeting, that will continue. Will it go to zero of course not but the political resurgence is more about moderates ignoring reality and others not even voting. In something like 30 years church attendance has gone from 70%+ to 40% if my recollection is correct. I suspect we will settle in the mid 30% range and their status as a minority will be cemented and so long as the reasonable people vote this nightmare can be regulated to the sideline soon.

Edited by troph
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I guess that is my concern though--that while their status as a minority is cemented, they will rule nevertheless. Because the reasonable people caveat will not be in time, and the behind-the-scenes maneuvering of people like Rufo and the other groups to which Barr, et al belong to have enough wealth and power that they will manipulate the laws for their personal benefit both economically and to whatever standard of 'morality' they deem appropriate.

 

I agree that church attendance has been in decline--due to a variety of forces, attitudes, and scandals. If it weren't for so many lives at stake, it would be an interesting goldfish bowl scenario--will the country go the way of Afghanistan or more like certain Eastern European countries...

The whole situation is sad and maddening and overwhelming. In an interview I watched, once, a film director stated that we humans have a need--a hole--inside of our souls that seeks to be filled, and we spend much of our time on earth doing just that--seeking out others. He did not say why there are so many people that believe it is their obligation to not only create more 'holes' in humans through deprivation and want but then fill those holes with hatred and cruelty and persecution.

"What is essential is invisible to the eye."

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12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Actually a very, very good point.  Not so much the backing, but the active supporting from the pulpit.

Revoke tax exemption for 501C religious orgs and the bad ones will stop pretending and the 75% that don't likely will start.

Seems to me they have already hijacked a political party and forced their views upon a society already (abortion, rights of sexually diverse individuals) and now they are rushing to get tax money to support religious education as part of their latest USA FUCKERY plan.   

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12 hours ago, Incredulity said:

They are not.

Do you have any idea how much money the Catholic Church actually has?

It’s a lot.

Catholic Church is centered out of Vatican City which is recognized as a foreign country thus it is a foreign entity and excluded from direct involvement via tangible benefits ( @TwiceHorn should weigh in here to verify) in policy making and financial contributions. 

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1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I guess that is my concern though--that while their status as a minority is cemented, they will rule nevertheless. Because the reasonable people caveat will not be in time, and the behind-the-scenes maneuvering of people like Rufo and the other groups to which Barr, et al belong to have enough wealth and power that they will manipulate the laws for their personal benefit both economically and to whatever standard of 'morality' they deem appropriate.

 

I agree that church attendance has been in decline--due to a variety of forces, attitudes, and scandals. If it weren't for so many lives at stake, it would be an interesting goldfish bowl scenario--will the country go the way of Afghanistan or more like certain Eastern European countries...

The whole situation is sad and maddening and overwhelming. In an interview I watched, once, a film director stated that we humans have a need--a hole--inside of our souls that seeks to be filled, and we spend much of our time on earth doing just that--seeking out others. He did not say why there are so many people that believe it is their obligation to not only create more 'holes' in humans through deprivation and want but then fill those holes with hatred and cruelty and persecution.

"What is essential is invisible to the eye."

You make good points but I think the bulwarks they’ve put in place are going to last a while but not 50-60 years (hence my comment 2 generations).

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23 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Catholic Church is centered out of Vatican City which is recognized as a foreign country thus it is a foreign entity and excluded from direct involvement via tangible benefits ( @TwiceHorn should weigh in here to verify) in policy making and financial contributions. 

Not sure of your point?  

But, yeah, the Vatican, as a mostly "sovereign nation" would be precluded by election and campaign finance laws from contributing to US political candidates.

Obviously, people of certain faiths/members of certain churches pursue political agendas.  Impossible to legislate that out of existence.  Catholics are all over the map as liberals and conservatives, although the Opus Dei types are catching a lot of eyeballs these days.

But one fairly bright line is whether a church or the pastor or clergy of said church, openly advocates partisan political issues and candidates in his/her/their official capacity as clergy.  That's repugnant, and should result in revocation of 501c tax exempt status.  It seems it is most common among fundagelical churches that actually have little or no national organization or wealth outside of their particular congregation.  It is also fairly common in historically black churches, on the other side of the aisle.

I don't think the Roman Catholic Church, per se, participates much in US politics.  Individuals and groups of Catholics, of course.

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not sure of your point?  

But, yeah, the Vatican, as a mostly "sovereign nation" would be precluded by election and campaign finance laws from contributing to US political candidates.

Obviously, people of certain faiths/members of certain churches pursue political agendas.  Impossible to legislate that out of existence.  Catholics are all over the map as liberals and conservatives, although the Opus Dei types are catching a lot of eyeballs these days.

But one fairly bright line is whether a church or the pastor or clergy of said church, openly advocates partisan political issues and candidates in his/her/their official capacity as clergy.  That's repugnant, and should result in revocation of 501c tax exempt status.  It seems it is most common among fundagelical churches that actually have little or no national organization or wealth outside of their particular congregation.  It is also fairly common in historically black churches, on the other side of the aisle.

I don't think the Roman Catholic Church, per se, participates much in US politics.  Individuals and groups of Catholics, of course.

Incredulity spoke of the Catholic Church's wealth as being utilized as a influence upon US elections.   Since they are a foreign nation they cannot directly do so to my knowledge which is why I was hoping you would weigh in with a little more  legitimacy than a geologist's interpretation of the law.   Individuals of course would be free to support or align themselves as they wish (and already do).   

Another issue is the lack of action against those that do political activism from the pulpit.   My parent's church did it often through innuendo, directly, and through their bible study groups.   

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Incredulity spoke of the Catholic Church's wealth as being utilized as a influence upon US elections.

you do realize the CC has diocese all over the country?

The specific example of the CC is really beside the point anyway.  

Edited by Incredulity
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15 hours ago, troph said:

Fuck every single mother fucking hater. Got it? Humanity is diverse, probably by your own God’s design you ignorant fucks. you can’t handle it fuck the fucking fuck off, you have no place to belong in a modern society and you should be shunned into silence. If I’m not clear but you wonder if I’m talking to you or about you, your suspicion is correct. I am. Fuck off, America isn’t yours and your whitewashed bullshit American history isn’t going to fly. Your gospel will die an unceremoniously quiet death within the next two generations because you don’t even know what your gospel means. Again fuck off.  

spacer.png

Seriously.

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56 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

you do realize the CC has diocese all over the country?

The specific example of the CC is really beside the point anyway.  

yes.

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9 hours ago, troph said:

Church attendance is plummeting, that will continue. Will it go to zero of course not but the political resurgence is more about moderates ignoring reality and others not even voting. In something like 30 years church attendance has gone from 70%+ to 40% if my recollection is correct. I suspect we will settle in the mid 30% range and their status as a minority will be cemented and so long as the reasonable people vote this nightmare can be regulated to the sideline soon.

Not sure the lower church attendance is such a great thing:

White Southern Evangelicals Are Leaving the Church: Data suggests that, when their attendance drops, these nominal Christians become hyper-individualistic, devoted to law and order, cynical about systems, and distrustful of others.

 

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Sounds like this is the thread for this:

https://newrepublic.com/article/167351/ron-desantis-lgbtq-trans-florida-republicans
 

Quote


The campaign by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis against LGBTQ people has escalated over the last week, roping in the state’s health and law enforcement officials. On Thursday, DeSantis removed State Attorney Andrew Warren from office, citing Warren’s pledge not to use the resources of his office to criminalize gender-affirming health care for minors or abortion. The next day, the state Board of Medicine voted to consider banning gender-affirming health care for trans kids, after the state Department of Health proposed prohibitions on both medical and social transition for minors, with the approval of DeSantis. By purging a dissenting state prosecutor and marshaling public health bodies to his purpose in just the last week, DeSantis is growing his reach—not just as a national right-wing figure, but as a political leader who commands obedience across yet more state agencies. His anti-LGBTQ agenda is now moving into a new heightened state of criminalization, one which also demonstrates how DeSantis wields power.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/9/2022 at 5:25 PM, NWBuck said:

Not sure the lower church attendance is such a great thing:

White Southern Evangelicals Are Leaving the Church: Data suggests that, when their attendance drops, these nominal Christians become hyper-individualistic, devoted to law and order, cynical about systems, and distrustful of others.

 

Yeah, that’s the real downside. They can drop any pretense of caring anything about the love ethic.

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On 8/8/2022 at 9:46 PM, Mole said:

Great artists steal.

Lol. While there’s truth to that, so do hacks and plagiarists.  But, since you bring up Art,  just saw “Belfast,” and it touches on some of this thread’s tangents. Great film, that.

I respect those Christians and Christian churches/faiths that support our LBGTQ brothers and sisters.

 

 

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I will post a transgendered story that flummoxed me. The story was part of an NPR piece that detailed the lives of a few transgendered folk. One person lived gender fluid minute by minute. My brain stretched trying to understand that perspective. Seemed onerous to me, but then I thought anti-onerous was probably how they viewed their life.. Yep, God makes all kinds of people. 

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On 8/8/2022 at 9:48 PM, Incredulity said:

Taxation without representation is tyranny.

They were specifically excluded from the start so we wouldn’t become a theocracy.

Yes, but right now we have over representation without any taxation.

Hell, religious lobby groups pay no taxes, so ...

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

We should start a superpac called GROOP

Get

Religion 

Out

Of

Politics 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

I will post a transgendered story that flummoxed me. The story was part of an NPR piece that detailed the lives of a few transgendered folk. One person lived gender fluid minute by minute. My brain stretched trying to understand that perspective. Seemed onerous to me, but then I thought anti-onerous was probably how they viewed their life.. Yep, God makes all kinds of people. 

The world isn’t ready for it but the reality is gender is absolutely an artificial construct. We assign so many behaviors, traits, required roles, expectations, looks, desires, and even inanimate objects to sex (creating gender), and that’s the kindergarten explanation. It’s like understanding black holes and astrophysics when you aren’t an astronomer to those who are comfortably set in a gender that matches their birth sex on one side or the other, which is understandably most of you.  It’s astrophysics even for those who sometimes get a glimpse of how entrapped they can be by the construct - think arbitrary emotional barriers imposed on men or restraint and manners required for women as simple examples. Enraged and yet still can’t fully grasp the complete and utter construct that gender is for humans. The starting point is to understand there is no gender in the animal kingdom the way humans have created gender. The second part is to understand and fully accept binary transition. You can also see it in some expressions of gay and lesbian culture before transition was more widely available because the gay community by definition rejects traditional sexuality which allowed for the exploration and experiment of gender and gender expression. From there, understanding gender non-conformity, gender fluidity, bigender, etc is available for those who want to stretch their brain though I’ll admit it’s a major leap. I’m not going to talk much else on this board about it because the responses about identifying as a dolphin or whatever other genius response the asshats will come up with will just piss me off, but just because you or I don’t fully grasp it doesn’t mean it’s not a real thing. The inability to grasp it probably means you’re just (thankfully) very comfortable with the gender construct as humans have developed it and as it is applied to you. So be inquisitive and thankful. 

Edited by troph
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

universal pictures becomes the first major studio to release a gay rom com. 

written by and starring billy eichner.

sept 30 for those interested. 

Who produced Love Simon?  That was a solid flick. We are watching the TV series Love Victor now sort of a sequel, well, I’m partially watching as my ADHD can’t hold it but it’s on in the background. It’s a B+ teen drama. It’s so refreshing to have quality representation on screen. Some of these seem absurdly assimilated on screen but that’s my past talking the kids today are that accepting. It’s where hope lives. 

Edited by troph
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Posted (edited)

Not for anti-LGBTQ or prudish reasons, but if my wife ever asks me to go see that movie, I might have to start a marriage counseling thread. That looks horrifying for reasons not at all related to who’s groping whom.

Edited by Mole
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