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Joe Biden 2023: The Dark Brandon Rises


StassneyHorn

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6 hours ago, Incredulity said:

He is referring to paycheck to paycheck income and contrasting that with ballooning weekly household expenses.

To take it a step further I have long said that direct deposit of paychecks is great cover for tax policies.  No one really knows their paycheck gross.  The know their "annual compensation" and their deposit amount, but not the gross paycheck amount before taxes.

Who doesn’t know what their income is before tax?

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I felt like Chris Hayes ran the inflation thread and the Joe Biden thread pages through ChatGPT and got his segment last night. 15 minutes long, but hey it’s Friday and workswithseed (RIP) would have given you a cartoon podcaster
 

Hits on the hysterics of muh eggs and recession ruhcession resesshun, bottom half improvements with wage gains and increasing union membership and more.

 

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We’re not in a recession and our economy is doing well overall, but anyone trying to argue that the price of groceries haven’t gone up the last two years at a higher rate than overall inflation is lying to themselves. The average price of grocery items are up anywhere from 10%-30%. Yes people can still buy them especially people at the median income level and above, but it’s still noticeable. Corporate greed is behind it, not the government, but it still exists.  And grocery bills going up is something all people notice. 

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12 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Consumer Confidence Index doesn't really reflect this pessimism all that much.  I think it's important to question what consumers are actually voicing this "deep economic pessimism".  (hint:  it's MAGAts)

 

No it's not. Maybe I am off on what you are saying, but are you saying that MAGAts are the ones with deep economic pessimism? If you are then I say you need to hit the streets more. My father-in-law likes to dump their unwanted items on us. I am currently in possession of a 20 year old Suburban that they dropped off on our doorstep(my wife will never say no to her dad). Since they bought it brand new I have the original sticker for it. Fully loaded for its time. 46k sticker. Right now a 24 High Country Burban is 92k, and that's not even 4x4 or 3/4 ton like my old Burban is. Literally doubled in price in 20 years. Incomes haven't doubled in that time frame.

Most of us here are olds. We own our houses, have solid wages, and thus are somewhat disconnected with the poors. However, the younger crowd is really feeling it. I own a house where the going rent rate is double what the mortgage is. Google a decent 2bdroom apt. 2k+ in the Houston area. My daughter is 15, young for my age, but talking to people my age I know who's kids have long since left the nest, they are a couple years out of college and still on the payroll.

 

https://www.fredechevrolet.com/VehicleDetails/new-2024-Chevrolet-Suburban-2WD_High_Country-HOUSTON-TX/5732796150

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19 hours ago, BeardIP said:

No doubt a reflection of his era (assuming WWII or WWII adjacent) along with Cold War existentialism?

Not just a product of the times.  It actually reflects a pretty solid understanding of presidential power.

According to the text of the Constitution, at Article II, the express/explicit powers of the President are highest and most exclusive in the realm of foreign policy and national security (treaty power, commander in chief, etc.). 

Of course, Article II is pretty vague about the rest of presidential power and filling in those gaps with domestic policymaking and executive legislation (EO's etc.) is a relatively recent development.  See, e.g., Teddy, Franklin, the last four or five, etc.

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3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

No it's not. Maybe I am off on what you are saying, but are you saying that MAGAts are the ones with deep economic pessimism? If you are then I say you need to hit the streets more. My father-in-law likes to dump their unwanted items on us. I am currently in possession of a 20 year old Suburban that they dropped off on our doorstep(my wife will never say no to her dad). Since they bought it brand new I have the original sticker for it. Fully loaded for its time. 46k sticker. Right now a 24 High Country Burban is 92k, and that's not even 4x4 or 3/4 ton like my old Burban is. Literally doubled in price in 20 years. Incomes haven't doubled in that time frame.

Most of us here are olds. We own our houses, have solid wages, and thus are somewhat disconnected with the poors. However, the younger crowd is really feeling it. I own a house where the going rent rate is double what the mortgage is. Google a decent 2bdroom apt. 2k+ in the Houston area. My daughter is 15, young for my age, but talking to people my age I know who's kids have long since left the nest, they are a couple years out of college and still on the payroll.

 

https://www.fredechevrolet.com/VehicleDetails/new-2024-Chevrolet-Suburban-2WD_High_Country-HOUSTON-TX/5732796150

Agreed, but that's a longer-term trend as the result of trickle-down without the trickle.  One president can't unfuck that.

In the shorter term, 5-10 years, things are getting slightly better.

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6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not just a product of the times.  It actually reflects a pretty solid understanding of presidential power.

According to the text of the Constitution, at Article II, the express/explicit powers of the President are highest and most exclusive in the realm of foreign policy and national security (treaty power, commander in chief, etc.). 

Of course, Article II is pretty vague about the rest of presidential power and filling in those gaps with domestic policymaking and executive legislation (EO's etc.) is a relatively recent development.  See, e.g., Teddy, Franklin, the last four or five, etc.

The Office Thank You GIF

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15 hours ago, chainsaw said:

I can't speak for everyone, but Millennials and Gen Z view Gen X as complicit in allowing Boomers to dictate the terms of the economy and post-2000 politics. Is it fair? Thats not for me to say. But ask a Zoomer what they think of Gen Xers.

  1. That's because they are mostly partially functioning morons.  Millennial nostalgia is so cringy and crap, it's literal corporate garbage from one of the most boring times in America's culture.
  2. I ask zoomers for my coffee at the drive through in the morning, I don't really need their takes on anything of even mild importance.   
  3. Billy Joel should apologize for "We didn't start the fire..."  Motherfucker we are watching you pour the Jerry can out with one hand and a blow torch in the other!
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13 hours ago, Covri said:

We’re not in a recession and our economy is doing well overall, but anyone trying to argue that the price of groceries haven’t gone up the last two years at a higher rate than overall inflation is lying to themselves. The average price of grocery items are up anywhere from 10%-30%. Yes people can still buy them especially people at the median income level and above, but it’s still noticeable. Corporate greed is behind it, not the government, but it still exists.  And grocery bills going up is something all people notice. 

Who is arguing that grocery prices haven’t gone up more than inflation?

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14 hours ago, Covri said:

We’re not in a recession and our economy is doing well overall, but anyone trying to argue that the price of groceries haven’t gone up the last two years at a higher rate than overall inflation is lying to themselves. The average price of grocery items are up anywhere from 10%-30%.

Well, 10% in two years is 4.9% annualized, and I'd bet average inflation was higher over that timeframe.  That's on the lower end of your claimed range, though. 

This seems to point to a 13.6% rise in food costs over the last two years (1.104 x 1..029):

image.png.1287f3f254d2757a8a9785e5c27e3dbd.png 

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6 hours ago, Thatguy said:

No it's not. Maybe I am off on what you are saying, but are you saying that MAGAts are the ones with deep economic pessimism? If you are then I say you need to hit the streets more.

I don't know what your anecdote about being given a used Suburban even means, so I'm not addressing it.  To my point, I can confidently say that the percentage of people my age bitching about nonexistent price issues (gas, etc.) are right wing, and many explicitly blame Biden.

Regardless, the consumer confidence index chart I posted counters any claim that Americans are in general pessimistic about the economy.

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30 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't know what your anecdote about being given a used Suburban even means, so I'm not addressing it.  To my point, I can confidently say that the percentage of people my age bitching about nonexistent price issues (gas, etc.) are right wing, and many explicitly blame Biden.

Regardless, the consumer confidence index chart I posted counters any claim that Americans are in general pessimistic about the economy.

I’m not sure how someone bitching about getting a free old car ties in to the discussion here either, but his feelings don’t give a rip about your facts. Amirite?

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14 hours ago, Covri said:

We’re not in a recession and our economy is doing well overall, but anyone trying to argue that the price of groceries haven’t gone up the last two years at a higher rate than overall inflation is lying to themselves. The average price of grocery items are up anywhere from 10%-30%. Yes people can still buy them especially people at the median income level and above, but it’s still noticeable. Corporate greed is behind it, not the government, but it still exists.  And grocery bills going up is something all people notice. 

This.

While inflation is receding, the past 2 years of it has resulted in that 30% higher grocery bill.

People know this, feel this, don’t like this.

Running on a ‘strong economy’ when people see higher prices (even if they aren’t ’getting Any higher’) is not the answer. 
 

And republicans will point to that, offer vague solutions around the theme of ‘freedom’, talk about lower taxes, and people will eat it up.

 

Dems need to talk about the higher prices. Like you said, hammer corporations , and at least try some line of attacks outside of just saying inflation is down.

Frame republicans as looking backwards (they are btw).


 

’Republicans talk about higher prices. And they’re right. They’re 30% higher. But you don’t have those come down with lower taxes. It’s the same old lie they told us 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 30 years ago. But what I (Joe Biden) want is for you to make more. We see it in auto with the latest contract. We see it in wage growth. Is it enough? No. But I want it to be more. Repubs want to trickle down to you. How has that worked for the past 30 years. I want the construction worker to make more $ and his CEO to make less because his company can’t buy back his stock at all time high price. I want the wages for the Mc Donald’s worker to be $15, 16, $17 an hr so they can afford to feed themselves. I want that food to be safe. I want you to have dignity, pride in your work, and dominion over your own body.

If you want the same failed policies of the last 30 years, keep voting Republican.

It’s me, at 80 years old that is thinking of a better future. My junior 78 year old running mate is thinking of himself and the past. Make america great again? Hell, America hasnt even scratched the surface of its potential. For 250 years we’ve only been using a quarter to half of our people and potential and we went to the moon.

What is in store for us when we make sure people aren’t hungry? When we truly educate all our children? When we don’t have to worry about an illness bankrupting us?

What happens when every person’s potential is released.

That’s the future I’m fighting for.

 

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6 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

My income has tripled since 2012

25 year olds “on the payroll” aren’t buying fully loaded suburbans

Googling 2 bedroom apartments under $2,000 returns 13,340 results in Houston

https://www.apartments.com/houston-tx/2-bedrooms-under-2000/?bb=tw4om4q6-Iyk9zvxd
 

 

You’re the reason I don’t always fly private.  I hope you’re proud.  Asshole

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49 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, 10% in two years is 4.9% annualized, and I'd bet average inflation was higher over that timeframe.  That's on the lower end of your claimed range, though. 

This seems to point to a 13.6% rise in food costs over the last two years (1.104 x 1..029):

image.png.1287f3f254d2757a8a9785e5c27e3dbd.png 

I know a bag of Doritos used to be $2.50 at HEB and now it's $4.48. Bullshit that the cost to produce it and get it on the shelf has risen 80% in two years.

Meanwhile, frozen pizza used to cost $5-6 and is now $6-7. So yeah, inflation but I think there are also spots where we are being gouged.

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2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I think there are also spots where we are being gouged.

I think it's rent and housing costs underpinning the inflation. Since PE firms have been buying a plurality of the single family housing market, it's been driving down inventory while spiking costs for individual buyers, and the investment purchases are turned around and rented at a profitable rate. 

People need more money to pay to have a roof and bed, so they demand more pay, which gives firms the reason to push prices up at accelerated rates. The housing market has always been the invisible hand controlling the greater economy, and individuals are getting muscled out by the investor class

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6 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I know a bag of Doritos used to be $2.50 at HEB and now it's $4.48. Bullshit that the cost to produce it and get it on the shelf has risen 80% in two years.

Meanwhile, frozen pizza used to cost $5-6 and is now $6-7. So yeah, inflation but I think there are also spots where we are being gouged.

How are you going to track the price of Doritos but be too good for a totino’s party pizza. It’s like $4 even if you go t’zone

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27 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I know a bag of Doritos used to be $2.50 at HEB and now it's $4.48. Bullshit that the cost to produce it and get it on the shelf has risen 80% in two years.

Meanwhile, frozen pizza used to cost $5-6 and is now $6-7. So yeah, inflation but I think there are also spots where we are being gouged.

I only addressed his "two year" claim, but in reality, I think people are considering pre-covid as their baseline.  If you use the last 4 years on that food inflation chat (3.9%, 6.3%, 10.4%, 2.9%) it comes out to a total 25.5% increase, which seems pretty much in line with what people are saying.

80% on a single item is ridiculous.

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55 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think it's rent and housing costs underpinning the inflation. Since PE firms have been buying a plurality of the single family housing market, it's been driving down inventory while spiking costs for individual buyers, and the investment purchases are turned around and rented at a profitable rate. 

People need more money to pay to have a roof and bed, so they demand more pay, which gives firms the reason to push prices up at accelerated rates. The housing market has always been the invisible hand controlling the greater economy, and individuals are getting muscled out by the investor class

This is something we can all see and experience too. It is wild. 

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1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

How are you going to track the price of Doritos but be too good for a totino’s party pizza. It’s like $4 even if you go t’zone

I tried one of those Motor City Pizzas the other day and it is pretty dang good for frozen pizza. 

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1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I tried one of those Motor City Pizzas the other day and it is pretty dang good for frozen pizza. 

Home Run Inn sucks, though.  I've had decent luck rolling my own with the frozen Midtown crusts and some HEB Organics tomato sauce (and cheese and other toppings).

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3 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

This.

While inflation is receding, the past 2 years of it has resulted in that 30% higher grocery bill.

People know this, feel this, don’t like this.

Running on a ‘strong economy’ when people see higher prices (even if they aren’t ’getting Any higher’) is not the answer. 
 

And republicans will point to that, offer vague solutions around the theme of ‘freedom’, talk about lower taxes, and people will eat it up.

 

Dems need to talk about the higher prices. Like you said, hammer corporations , and at least try some line of attacks outside of just saying inflation is down.

Frame republicans as looking backwards (they are btw).


 

’Republicans talk about higher prices. And they’re right. They’re 30% higher. But you don’t have those come down with lower taxes. It’s the same old lie they told us 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 30 years ago. But what I (Joe Biden) want is for you to make more. We see it in auto with the latest contract. We see it in wage growth. Is it enough? No. But I want it to be more. Repubs want to trickle down to you. How has that worked for the past 30 years. I want the construction worker to make more $ and his CEO to make less because his company can’t buy back his stock at all time high price. I want the wages for the Mc Donald’s worker to be $15, 16, $17 an hr so they can afford to feed themselves. I want that food to be safe. I want you to have dignity, pride in your work, and dominion over your own body.

If you want the same failed policies of the last 30 years, keep voting Republican.

It’s me, at 80 years old that is thinking of a better future. My junior 78 year old running mate is thinking of himself and the past. Make america great again? Hell, America hasnt even scratched the surface of its potential. For 250 years we’ve only been using a quarter to half of our people and potential and we went to the moon.

What is in store for us when we make sure people aren’t hungry? When we truly educate all our children? When we don’t have to worry about an illness bankrupting us?

What happens when every person’s potential is released.

That’s the future I’m fighting for.

 

This is literally what Biden does

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Two things can exist at the same time 

The UR is historically low at 3.7%. Inflation is down at 3.1%. Grocery Prices are back rising at long time average of 2.1%. GDP is 5.2% this year. These are Hall of Fame numbers 

if you bought a home before June 2022, and have a job. You are probably crushing it. (Most likely Boomers & Gen X)

on the flip side.

New rent contracts are declining in price but you probably locked in last year while it was high as fuck, and you don’t make enough to save shit. Not to mention home prices are 40% higher and interest rates are still at 6% so you can afford to buy.

If you don’t own a home or bought after June 2022, or just entering the job market. You are feeling the pain of years of corporate wage depression and price inflation (Probably Millennials and Gen Z)

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7 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't know what your anecdote about being given a used Suburban even means, so I'm not addressing it.  To my point, I can confidently say that the percentage of people my age bitching about nonexistent price issues (gas, etc.) are right wing, and many explicitly blame Biden.

I knew people bitching about the price of turkeys, even though they admitted they weren’t buying them and hadn’t checked their local stores.  Or the stupid fucking meals at McDonalds that people are claiming are ridiculously expensive, and then I ask them why I can get three meals for myself and my kids for less than what they are bitching about.  Like maybe they hadn’t been to McDonalds or were deliberately picking items that most of us wouldn’t buy.

6 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I know a bag of Doritos used to be $2.50 at HEB and now it's $4.48. Bullshit that the cost to produce it and get it on the shelf has risen 80% in two years.

Meanwhile, frozen pizza used to cost $5-6 and is now $6-7. So yeah, inflation but I think there are also spots where we are being gouged.

I keep telling people that complain, to stop buying and purchase something else such as store-brand chips or make their own pizzas.  Way too many people seemed to have forgotten that if enough people stop buying, prices will have to drop.  There’s too many options out there.

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5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I knew people bitching about the price of turkeys, even though they admitted they weren’t buying them and hadn’t checked their local stores.  Or the stupid fucking meals at McDonalds that people are claiming are ridiculously expensive, and then I ask them why I can get three meals for myself and my kids for less than what they are bitching about.  Like maybe they hadn’t been to McDonalds or were deliberately picking items that most of us wouldn’t buy.

Yeah, I saw that meme about a $15 quarter pounder with cheese or some such and I just dismissed it.  I don't know what was actually being referenced, but it ain't a McDonald's burger, and I haven't had a burger there since college.  Isn't it like $4 or so?

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10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Agreed, but that's a longer-term trend as the result of trickle-down without the trickle.  One president can't unfuck that.

In the shorter term, 5-10 years, things are getting slightly better.

 

7 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't know what your anecdote about being given a used Suburban even means, so I'm not addressing it.  To my point, I can confidently say that the percentage of people my age bitching about nonexistent price issues (gas, etc.) are right wing, and many explicitly blame Biden.

Regardless, the consumer confidence index chart I posted counters any claim that Americans are in general pessimistic about the economy.

  Jimmy don't be obtuse. Sure Biden isn't the one responsible for long term inflation but people are struggling just the same. People aren't breaking down the numbers YOY. They are simply just unhappy with the current state of things. Not everyone is a UT grad out there. I am surrounded by Repubs and I hear the same rhetoric, but I also hear the youngs complaints as well.

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13 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

My income has tripled since 2012

25 year olds “on the payroll” aren’t buying fully loaded suburbans

Googling 2 bedroom apartments under $2,000 returns 13,340 results in Houston

https://www.apartments.com/houston-tx/2-bedrooms-under-2000/?bb=tw4om4q6-Iyk9zvxd
 

 

  Lol. Your income has tripled because you no longer work entry level jobs. However, young people entering the market are making what, roughly 12% more than that job payed decades ago while trying to buy goods that have doubled. Of course you can find a 2 bedroom in Houston under 2k. If you want to lower your life expectancy you can find one for under 1k. We are talking in decent ares. Yes, 25 year olds aren't buying loaded Suburbans but a KIA Telluride is 42-55k as well.

The point is there are swaths of people who know little to nothing about politics/economics but are upset with the high cost of living and expect the current president to do something about it. How the hell do you think MAGA got into office in the first place? He ran on draining the swamp and lowering costs for the layman. A hell of a lot of stupid people turned out to vote for that clown, and not all of them are Trumpers.

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22 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

 

  Jimmy don't be obtuse. Sure Biden isn't the one responsible for long term inflation but people are struggling just the same. People aren't breaking down the numbers YOY. They are simply just unhappy with the current state of things. Not everyone is a UT grad out there. I am surrounded by Repubs and I hear the same rhetoric, but I also hear the youngs complaints as well.

I'm not being obtuse.  You are.  Address the Consumer Confidence Index.  Either tell me you think it means shit or tell me why it's way higher than average?

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5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not being obtuse.  You are.  Address the Consumer Confidence Index.  Either tell me you think it means shit or tell me why it's way higher than average?

I am largely in agreement with you Jimmy, but I think you are way off base on how rational you think the American public is. The Consumer Confidence Index is its about as useful as the polling since Trump has been in the picture. Tons of people who vote for that dude don't participate in those things. 2016 and 2020 shoulda told ya.

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