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Dennis Taylor
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Umm  there are a lot of young people in the world. Sometimes shitty things will happen to them.  Believe it for not, but this also happened before covid vacs were a thing.

 

I lost a good friend to a random heart attack.  He was 33 and very fit.   (Autopsy tested negative for drugs for what it’s worth)  This was 2 years before covid.  
moral of the story, get regular checkups and request a stress test. 

Edited by FORTY NINE TO ZERO
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Yeah no way are studies ever biased... You can pay anyone to say whatever narrative you want. I can post stories where the jab is harmful. But confirmation bias kicks in and no one wants to admit they took an experimental shot where no one knows at all what lies ahead.
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There is clear indication that all-cause excess mortality is not correlated to vaccine uptake.

While excess mortality is not fully understood, there are multiple possible contributors, some obvious:  (a) covid (b) healthcare disruptions (c) delayed healthcare due to the pandemic.  I read one article where it was posited that extreme heat waves might have had an impact last year.  What is known, however, beyond the myriad safety studies and monitoring that has been part of the covid vaccine rollout, is that excess mortality is not correlated to the vaccine itself.  Indeed, excess mortality peaked well before the vaccines were ever brought to the public.

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7 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:
12 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Yeah no way are studies ever biased... You can pay anyone to say whatever narrative you want. I can post stories where the jab is harmful. But confirmation bias kicks in and no one wants to admit they took an experimental shot where no one knows at all what lies ahead.

the world is not going to stop doing scientific studies b/c 'you can pay anyone to say whatever' you want. i mean yes, that is true...but there's a world of difference between a person making an assertion based on anecdotal supposition with little actual data and instead on how it 'feels'... and actual data, evidence, analysis and study.

are there actual studies showing any correlation? i haven't seen any, it's all just 'it really seems like...' conjecture.

like several other topics in recent years, the weight of actual logic and data seems rather one-sided. 🤔

 

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38 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:
43 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Yeah no way are studies ever biased... You can pay anyone to say whatever narrative you want. I can post stories where the jab is harmful. But confirmation bias kicks in and no one wants to admit they took an experimental shot where no one knows at all what lies ahead.

Your taste in women is much better than your logic here.

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On 1/12/2023 at 6:56 AM, Sgt Hulk said:

Flight training doesn’t typically happen until after graduation because flight training takes place at bases not in the springs.. But these guys play school.  Play military a few times in the summer. But they aren’t doing flight training right now because there is no guarantee they’ll graduate school so they aren’t wasting that coin  there are some classes where they may fly a glider or do jumps  but they aren’t flying high altitude or trainers

 

also getting real cloaky in here with vax talk and the battle of pro vaxxed will win on this site every day so please for the love of god future man yourself with that talk 

The good news is we have texags and that is a great place to post antivax ‘studies’.  That’s where I go when I need to lay down real Nowledge.  

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On 1/12/2023 at 12:18 AM, Helobious said:

What other ones have we been seeing? There was Hamlin but he ended up living. That brutal hit he took directly to his sternum might’ve been a factor but it’s currently unknown. Jake Ehlinger, we know why that one happened. Can’t think of others fitting the bill.

Here in SA Josh Pollard was a big story. HS football player that died suddenly in his sleep. But that was in 2016 so it doesn’t match with your vax theory.

As a now 44 year old man laying here with a catheter sticking out of my chest for dialysis to get my kidneys to work again, and having to use a walker just to go to my fridge, I can tell you that I had strokes, heart attacks and a blood clot in my leg before my heart stopped 8X back in August. I was healthy before my booster shot.

Maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe it’s real. 

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1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

A story is not a study. Yes studies can be biased. No one paid for the study I linked. It was published in the annals of internal medicine, one of the most respected peer reviewed journals in the world. This study has limits in that it is retrospective case series but it includes review of 70k + ischemic events and finds no association in patients under 75 years for Pfizer and Moderna. 
 

If you know of any peer reviewed published study showing an association between acute vascular events and these vaccines please link it. I have done multiple pubmed searches using several meSH terms and have found none

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-10928-z
 

Yes. There’s no long term data because, like with the shots themselves, there hasn’t been enough time to properly monitor them. Unlike the “wackos”, people just accept that the shots are safe despite the fact that we rushed them out a few months after we figured out what COVID was. I got 2 Pfizer shots and a booster. I’ve caught COVID twice, once while I was hospitalized. 
 

No one can definitively rule one way or the other. We didn’t figure out that blood transfusions may be bad until we gave a lot of people HIV.

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5 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-10928-z
 

Yes. There’s no long term data because, like with the shots themselves, there hasn’t been enough time to properly monitor them. Unlike the “wackos”, people just accept that the shots are safe despite the fact that we rushed them out a few months after we figured out what COVID was. I got 2 Pfizer shots and a booster. I’ve caught COVID twice, once while I was hospitalized. 
 

No one can definitely rule one way or the other. We didn’t figure out that blood transfusions may be bad until we have a lot of people HIV.

Serious question, did you get covid encephalopathy?

 

Not sure where to begin so I’ll just take the high road and wish you the best.  Long Covid is a real thing and a bitch too.  

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15 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Serious question, did you get covid encephalopathy?

 

Not sure where to begin so I’ll just take the high road and wish you the best.  Long Covid is a real thing and a bitch too.  

Yes, I had a full neurological check. Everything was fine. I caught COVID on 12/31/21 after 2 shots. I got my booster on MLK day in 2022 and was hospitalized 3 weeks later because I couldn’t walk. I was diagnosed with a low B12 count and got better until 8/10/22 when shit hit the fan. I took multiple tests between the two COVID positive tests for work and to go out in NYC.

Not sure what high road there is to take. I’ve said that it could just be a coincidence. I don’t know, with any amount of certainty, that the episodes are related. But, this is what happened to me and they are finding all of my symptoms associated with Pfizer shots. I just find it eerie that others are having the same issues. Nothing in my family history indicates any heart issues.

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1 minute ago, Spankytoes said:

Yes, I had a full neurological check. Everything was fine. I caught COVID on 12/31/21 after 2 shots. I got my booster on MLK day in 2022 and was hospitalized 3 weeks later because I couldn’t walk. I was diagnosed with a low B12 count and got better until 8/10/22 when shit hit the fan. I took multiple tests between the two COVID positive tests for work and to go out in NYC.

Not sure what high road there is to take. I’ve said that it could just be a coincidence. I don’t know, with any amount of certainty, that the episodes are related. But, this is what happened to me and they are finding all of my symptoms associated with Pfizer shots. I just find it eerie that others are having the same issues.

Sorry I meant me taking the high road and not bashing.  Hope you’re better soon.  Covid is a total shitshow that’s not going away.  

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6 minutes ago, naija said:

I don't think people are necessarily wackos for having questions. There must exist a healthy amount of skepticism and the reality is that long-term data can only be acquired after a certain passage of time. Medicine is littered with honest mistakes. If there is a place where "safe space" must exist, it's here. Whether the pro or against argument, rigid work should be done without pressures from the world outside. I just think that is very hard to get these days.

It’s important to ask questions, and there is nothing wrong with healthy skepticism. That being said, there are answers to all the questions raised by the “just asking questions” crowd. The answers are supported with scientific studies. Thankfully we have doctors on this thread who freely supply them, but not all message board do.

The issue is many believe their anecdotal stories or feelings hold just as much weight as a scientific study. That they have the same capability of questioning these studies as someone with a 30 years of training. Many are correct that these scientific studies should be scrutinized, but by other scientists that understand things like conformation bias, research bias, randomization, double blind, etc, and not Paul the Plumber. 

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8 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

As a now 44 year old man laying here with a catheter sticking out of my chest for dialysis to get my kidneys to work again, and having to use a walker just to go to my fridge, I can tell you that I had strokes, heart attacks and a blood clot in my leg before my heart stopped 8X back in August. I was healthy before my booster shot.

Maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe it’s real. 

I’m sorry this happened to you. Thank you for linking the study. I haven’t had time to read it in detail, but it suggests there may be a correlation between patients who were previously infected and then got a booster, which sounds like what happened to you. The overall numbers of EMS calls are small however, and I could not find on quick scan whether they analyzed documented cardiac or vascular events (acute MI or ST changes, PE, stroke or limb ischemia) as a subset of total EMS calls. 
 

The French study is 70k documented vascular and cardiac events looking at over 40M lives. I did not see any analysis broken down by age groups, other than upper limit of 75 y but it showed no association. It would be nice to look at the 16-50 yo subset

clearly we need more well designed studies with high power

 

Finally anecdotes are important. They are data points and get enough together you can see apparent trends. That allows well designed studies to be done to see if the apparent trends are real associations 

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10 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

This page is about 80% full of dudes that would watch Bernie sanders have a 3some with AOC and Warren while staring at a poster of Beto on their wall. 
 

there are no safe spaces.  Rip in peace 

 

no cr

weird flex

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I think username fits perfectly.  Hulk smash!

13 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

This page is about 80% full of dudes that would watch Bernie sanders have a 3some with AOC and Warren while staring at a poster of Beto on their wall. 
 

there are no safe spaces.  Rip in peace 

 

no cr

 

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8 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

Yes, I had a full neurological check. Everything was fine. I caught COVID on 12/31/21 after 2 shots. I got my booster on MLK day in 2022 and was hospitalized 3 weeks later because I couldn’t walk. I was diagnosed with a low B12 count and got better until 8/10/22 when shit hit the fan. I took multiple tests between the two COVID positive tests for work and to go out in NYC.

Not sure what high road there is to take. I’ve said that it could just be a coincidence. I don’t know, with any amount of certainty, that the episodes are related. But, this is what happened to me and they are finding all of my symptoms associated with Pfizer shots. I just find it eerie that others are having the same issues. Nothing in my family history indicates any heart issues.

I missed this before my previous reply. Did your cardiovascular events happen 8 months after your booster or did you get a second booster in the summer?

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9 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-10928-z
 

Yes. There’s no long term data because, like with the shots themselves, there hasn’t been enough time to properly monitor them. Unlike the “wackos”, people just accept that the shots are safe despite the fact that we rushed them out a few months after we figured out what COVID was. I got 2 Pfizer shots and a booster. I’ve caught COVID twice, once while I was hospitalized. 
 

No one can definitively rule one way or the other. We didn’t figure out that blood transfusions may be bad until we gave a lot of people HIV.

I've read your posts on here, and I'm sad for your situation. But your conclusions about your own situation require some context.

PM me please.

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26 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

@Spankytoes if your issues began after you had vaccines and also a Covid infection, why don’t you think it’s the Covid that is the cause of your health problems?

For me, it was the timing of the infections and symptoms. I had my OG shots of Pfizer in April and May of 2021. I first tested positive for COVID on 12/31/21. So I attributed not getting COVID to my shots and getting masked up and realized that being vaccinated wasn’t foolproof…like using a condom. 
 

I got my booster on 1/17/2021. I was hospitalized on 2/4/2021 for 4 nights because I fell at work. I had a full gambit of lab work and scans done and a low B12 level was the verdict. I accepted that and took supplements daily. But, I still had lingering issues like randomly vomiting, migraines and gait issues that required me using a cane sometimes. Then, all hell broke loose in August.

I am a type 2 diabetic, so I acknowledge that this may have played a part in things. I wasn’t very good at controlling my sugars at all. Other than that, I was in good health, albeit I was fat. Then I researched a little more and found that rare side effects of the boosters are strokes, heart attacks, blood clots and renal failure. I checked all of those boxes. Maybe it was getting older and not taking care of myself like I should have been post 40. But, for me, it raised a lot of questions. I’ve caught COVID 2X with 2 shots and a booster. My mom has the same, has never caught COVID and hasn’t experienced any health issues. I’ve had a few 30-40 something friends that had a similar experience to me. The patterns are concerning.

In summary, fuck COVID

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41 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 

I’m sorry this happened to you. Thank you for linking the study. I haven’t had time to read it in detail, but it suggests there may be a correlation between patients who were previously infected and then got a booster, which sounds like what happened to you. The overall numbers of EMS calls are small however, and I could not find on quick scan whether they analyzed documented cardiac or vascular events (acute MI or ST changes, PE, stroke or limb ischemia) as a subset of total EMS calls. 
 

The French study is 70k documented vascular and cardiac events looking at over 40M lives. I did not see any analysis broken down by age groups, other than upper limit of 75 y but it showed no association. It would be nice to look at the 16-50 yo subset

clearly we need more well designed studies with high power

 

Finally anecdotes are important. They are data points and get enough together you can see apparent trends. That allows well designed studies to be done to see if the apparent trends are real associations 

Here is one: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/moderna-covid-19-vaccines-safety-slightly-bests-pfizers

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34 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 

I’m sorry this happened to you. Thank you for linking the study. I haven’t had time to read it in detail, but it suggests there may be a correlation between patients who were previously infected and then got a booster, which sounds like what happened to you. The overall numbers of EMS calls are small however, and I could not find on quick scan whether they analyzed documented cardiac or vascular events (acute MI or ST changes, PE, stroke or limb ischemia) as a subset of total EMS calls. 
 

The French study is 70k documented vascular and cardiac events looking at over 40M lives. I did not see any analysis broken down by age groups, other than upper limit of 75 y but it showed no association. It would be nice to look at the 16-50 yo subset

clearly we need more well designed studies with high power

 

Finally anecdotes are important. They are data points and get enough together you can see apparent trends. That allows well designed studies to be done to see if the apparent trends are real associations 

I appreciate @Sawbonz measured take and @Spankytoes situation.

Because of the high community prevalence of the infection, the proper way to think of decision to get the vaccine is:

__ get vaccine
__ get infection without vaccine


Rates of cardiac/vascular disease from infection withOUT vaccine are FAR higher than from the vaccine for the general population. This has been shown repeatedly.

The rates of myocarditis from the vaccine are higher in adolescent and young men but are still less than rates of cardiac disease after infection. Of course there are other benefits from getting the vaccine.

Yes, I'm an expert in this field who's oh so tired of talking about this. Ok no more from me about this.

 

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12 hours ago, Knighthawk said:

Relatively young people in the 40s and 50s dropping dead is hard to ignore.  All cause death is way up since covid and the jab.  This shit ain’t CR … follow the data.   I’ve lost a super healthy and fit 110 lb sister in law with three kids at 47 years old recently.  None of this shit makes sense.  And yeah it’s real. 

Young people didn’t die prior to Covid, who knew? I’ll have to tell that to the people I knew whose funerals I attended. People die every day. There have been 100’s of millions of vaccines given and people have died every day still.

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To add to what @quigley posted

Risk of CV events from Covid infection is order of magnitude higher than from vaccine, even 1  year out from infection 

 

Quote

The researchers analyzed heart health over a year-long period. Heart disease, including heart failure and death, occurred in 4% more people than those who had not been infected with COVID-19.

“Some people may think 4% is a small number, but it’s not, given the magnitude of the pandemic,” Al-Aly said. “That translates to roughly 3 million people in the U.S. who have suffered cardiovascular complications due to COVID-19.”

Compared with those in the control groups without any infections, people who contracted COVID-19 were 72% more likely to suffer from coronary artery disease, 63% more likely to have a heart attack and 52% more likely to experience a stroke.

Overall, those infected with the virus were 55% more likely than those without COVID-19 to suffer a major adverse cardiovascular event, which includes heart attack, stroke and death.

 

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11 hours ago, mchookem said:

the world is not going to stop doing scientific studies b/c 'you can pay anyone to say whatever' you want. i mean yes, that is true...but there's a world of difference between a person making an assertion based on anecdotal supposition with little actual data and instead on how it 'feels'... and actual data, evidence, analysis and study.

are there actual studies showing any correlation? i haven't seen any, it's all just 'it really seems like...' conjecture.

like several other topics in recent years, the weight of actual logic and data seems rather one-sided. 🤔

 

Seriously, if all one has is “it feels that way,” they have an obligation to excuse themselves from the discussion. 

 

1 hour ago, Sgt Hulk said:

This page is about 80% full of dudes that would watch Bernie sanders have a 3some with AOC and Warren while staring at a poster of Beto on their wall. 
 

there are no safe spaces.  Rip in peace 

 

no cr

Makes a political statement, demands no CR. Yeah that totally checks out.

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10 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

Yes, I had a full neurological check. Everything was fine. I caught COVID on 12/31/21 after 2 shots. I got my booster on MLK day in 2022 and was hospitalized 3 weeks later because I couldn’t walk. I was diagnosed with a low B12 count and got better until 8/10/22 when shit hit the fan. I took multiple tests between the two COVID positive tests for work and to go out in NYC.

Not sure what high road there is to take. I’ve said that it could just be a coincidence. I don’t know, with any amount of certainty, that the episodes are related. But, this is what happened to me and they are finding all of my symptoms associated with Pfizer shots. I just find it eerie that others are having the same issues. Nothing in my family history indicates any heart issues.

Honest questions: 1) are you overweight; and 2) why did you get boosted 2 weeks after having Covid?  I don’t think that’d hospitalize you - just be a waste of a boost with strong Covid antibodies still present. 

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4 hours ago, Herpa Derpa said:

As an over 50 male with four jabs, I sit here having never had COVID and never developed anything other than a sore arm for a day with each shot. Maybe some of you are just weak pussies.

When you find yourself on the same side of a complex argument as Helobious and Vic, it might be time to reassess your critical thinking skills. First, ask yourself if your opinion is based on a lifetime of education and knowledge, or what some cheeto fingered moron wrote on the internet while he was scratching his butthole. If you're anti-vax, I can guarantee you it's the latter.

My best wishes to @Spankytoes for your ordeal and ongoing recovery. Thankfully, you had the sense to get two jabs. Factual data would posit that without doing so, you would likely be worm food now. 

We will all die at various times in our lives for various reasons, many of them called "tragic" because we like to pretend we have a right grow old. Our inherent selfishness creates grand conspiracies and mythical afterlifes to rationalize the coming snuff. There is no shadowy cabal scheming to put you, rando internet poster jackass, into the ground. None of us matter enough for that effort. It's not Hollywood, it's life. And it will end without exception and without mercy. That's not a conspiracy, that's an inevitability.

I don’t think his second shot has any bearing whatsoever on him being alive right now. And yes, a 44 yo with young children dying certainly is fucking tragic, and he certainly fucking matters. 

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34 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Honest questions: 1) are you overweight; and 2) why did you get boosted 2 weeks after having Covid?  I don’t think that’d hospitalize you - just be a waste of a boost with strong Covid antibodies still present. 

My parents' doctor told them to get the booster and I asked them why they would do that when they had just recovered from the virus and had antibodies.  Seems to be a lot of bad guidance being given out these days.  Parents opted not to get the booster.

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24 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

My parents' doctor told them to get the booster and I asked them why they would do that when they had just recovered from the virus and had antibodies.  Seems to be a lot of bad guidance being given out these days.  Parents opted not to get the booster.

In December, in response to the new variant and after finding that the bivalvent booster greatly increased immunity levels in people who recently had the virus, the CDC updated their guidance on getting the bivalvent booster after having a covid infection. 

Quote

 

If you recently had COVID-19, you may consider delaying your next vaccine dose (whether a primary dose or booster) by 3 months from when your symptoms started or, if you had no symptoms, when you first received a positive test.

Reinfection is less likely in the weeks to months after infection. However, certain factors, such as personal risk of severe disease, or risk of disease in a loved one or close contact, local COVID-19 Community Level, and the most common COVID-19 variant currently causing illness, could be reasons to get a vaccine sooner rather than later.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

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18 minutes ago, Chopper said:

In December, in response to the new variant and after finding that the bivalvent booster greatly increased immunity levels in people who recently had the virus, the CDC updated their guidance on getting the bivalvent booster after having a covid infection. 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

That's fine.  They won't be getting any more shots due to being devout Catholics.

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1 hour ago, Porterhouse said:

Honest questions: 1) are you overweight; and 2) why did you get boosted 2 weeks after having Covid?  I don’t think that’d hospitalize you - just be a waste of a boost with strong Covid antibodies still present. 

1. At the time of my episode, I was somewhere between 205 and 210 lbs. I am currently 162 lbs. Some of that is muscle loss in my arms and legs from being in a coma and on a ventilator. I’ve been out of the nursing home for about 6 weeks and am doing PT/OT at home now. I’m approx. 5’10”. I’ve gone from obese to slightly overweight. I was a 38 waist and now wear 32 and medium/large shirts. My A1C is completely under control now.

2. Because it was recommended to me to do so by my doctor. At the time, there needed to be a certain amount of time before your 2nd shot and your booster. I chose MLK day because I didn’t have to take off work.

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3 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Should’ve added context.  Has to do with descending cell lines from aborted fetal tissue so it’s a non-starter with them.

Still doesn't make the decision any less laughable. 

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