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The Leopards Eating Faces and Unlubed Dildo of Consequences Thread


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Posted
1 hour ago, Hermanator said:

There's one thing in common with every sector of American society that has gotten us to this point of failure. A refusal to adhere to any sort of ethical standard for common decency. Over and over again every step of the way down has been littered with people only looking out for themselves and not caring about what their actions will do to the greater country at large. 

From the corporate obsession with profit over people, to the politicians being openly and legally bought to allow it to happen. Down to these farmers and the regular maga voter who expect to be given everything while expecting everything is taken from anyone not like them. 

It takes a whole lot of callous indifference,  hatred, and greed in a society to devolve to the point of electing someone like trump. Then to elect him again after the disasterous first term, pandemic failure, and insurrection/theft of classified materials is deranged lunacy. 

yeah all of this. People are still trying to apply logic to a country where a slow burn suicide is better than voting for someone other than Trump. The reality is people on the right want to hate hate and hate some more. This gives them what they most want. Reason and facts don't matter, so not sure why people still try. The only thing left is to be as illogical as they are. Just make up shit and shove it down their throats. 

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Posted
11 minutes ago, staboner said:

The reality is people on the right want to hate hate and hate some more. This gives them what they most want.

I don't think they really want it; it's not spiritually nurturing, and the fact they are addicted to it is linked to the demise of the social bonds that previously made for a more culturally homogeneous group, at least on the biggest issues.  

We could address the those issues (urban/rural divide, failure of the economy to sufficiently deliver happiness, increasing inequality, dehumanization in the face of technology, even a decline in church attendance or support for alternative lifestyles if you want to validate conservative critiques), but the one that touches or has infected everything is social media.  

I listened to about 10 minutes of Pod Save America this morning as the boys decried violence and called out hypocrisy on the right, but they kept ignoring the elephant in the room--if we can't unite around some basic shared truths (like dishonesty is disqualifying, or that evidence based decisions should prevail in conflict resolution), you can't govern except by fiat.  

This is getting wildly off-track from enjoying the dildo of consequences, but personally I'd have a lot more fun laughing at the harsher ironies if I felt like Democratic leadership were prepared to actually deal with the big problem and not live in a fantasy land in which too many voters reject enlightenment.  

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

To sum up:  selfishness and lack of long term thinking.

It is not that simple.  There is a lack of civic responsibility, but that takes time and money.  As we are working and engaged more in activities, our free time is cut down, and add to that we see how self-centered behavior is rewarded, what incentive is there to go out and do something for the greater good?  Now, people mistrust altruism.  

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Now, people mistrust altruism.  

They don't mistrust it, they demonize it.  Believe that maybe, just possibly, we should look out for each other?  You are an evil communist socialist and, per the rhetoric of the regime this past week in particular, you should be "exiled" from this country.  Seriously.  That's literally what Stephen Miller said.

We don't come back from this.  We were never coming back from this.  The United States as even a potential force for good and a world leader is not just a dead idea -- we are destined to be the opposite.  We are going to be Russia, with more tech oligarchs and less vodka.

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Posted
56 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

even a decline in church attendance or support for alternative lifestyles if you want to validate conservative critiques)

The rest was good stuff and I agree,  but this I think has been proven not true. 

The majority of the religious in the US are a major part of the hatred, callous, selfishness problem. Then historically speaking the countries that are run more secular in nature tend to be able to find the middle ground and address problems me efficiently. Think the Scandinavian countries and Japan in the modern world. They aren't ever perfect,  but they tend to avoid some of the biggest traps religious societies fall into. 

My theory is because belief in a religion opens a mind up to belief in other things that also either have zero evidence to support,  or have mountains of evidence to refute. Like believing in trump and the conservative lie. 

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Posted
14 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

The rest was good stuff and I agree,  but this I think has been proven not true. 

The majority of the religious in the US are a major part of the hatred, callous, selfishness problem. Then historically speaking the countries that are run more secular in nature tend to be able to find the middle ground and address problems me efficiently. Think the Scandinavian countries and Japan in the modern world. They aren't ever perfect,  but they tend to avoid some of the biggest traps religious societies fall into. 

My theory is because belief in a religion opens a mind up to belief in other things that also either have zero evidence to support,  or have mountains of evidence to refute. Like believing in trump and the conservative lie. 

I was trying to rein myself in, because this is a good topic for discussion and there's probably five other ongoing threads that would make a better home for it, but just to quickly address your post, I'm using church attendance in the same overall bucket as any social group as described in Puttnam's "Bowling Alone".  It's not that they are religious, it's that it's a community not purely based on socioeconomic traits and encourages mixing of different personalities, political preferences, and there's good scholarship that the community takes the edge off extremist beliefs.  

FWIW, the Enlightenment had to reckon with your concern about faith versus secular values, and that tension heavily influenced the founding fathers.  I think Jefferson would say that religion doesn't open the mind to falsehood, but that many professed believers who's minds are already open to conspiracies and fantasy are more forgiving of the mystical as an explanation for things they can't comprehend.  

Taking it back to social media, the voter who believes that Jesus saved Trump from assassination no longer has a neighbor or fellow congregant who gently dissuades him; instead he's found a group on Facebook or X that is reinforcing his beliefs.  

What should be really scary is that these people are fundamentally lonely, and are going to be the very first community emotionally dependent on an AI that is too novel and unregulated to have much sense of what comes next.  

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Posted
15 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I was trying to rein myself in, because this is a good topic for discussion and there's probably five other ongoing threads that would make a better home for it, but just to quickly address your post, I'm using church attendance in the same overall bucket as any social group as described in Puttnam's "Bowling Alone".  It's not that they are religious, it's that it's a community not purely based on socioeconomic traits and encourages mixing of different personalities, political preferences, and there's good scholarship that the community takes the edge off extremist beliefs.  

This.  The decline in American religious life and the negatives it brings aren't so much about a "loss of faith" as they are a "loss of community."

People's "church group" and "church friends" are important in keeping people grounded, and believe it or not, even offer some diversity (more than you have in much more insular community).  I grew up in a Catholic parish, and am involved in a Presbyterian church today.  In both groups were people of different experiences, different socioeconomic groups (grew up with some pretty rich kids, and some whose families were just scraping by, but we were all at the church picnic and our first communion together).  But the point is, they were a community.

Our "Bowling Alone" problems have only become more acute, impacted by both the COVID experience and the increasing ability (and incentive) to engage online only.  Having a church community is a counter to that phenomenon, and by losing that community (along with all the other communities we've been losing), we've become even further adrift.  

The truth is that "we are all in this together."

But the "truth" we are trying to live (and failing at, by the way) is "fuck you, I'm all that matters, and I can't be sure I'm winning if I don't see you losing."  Zero-sum thinking is almost always destructive, and we've elevated it to a near-holy rite.

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Posted
1 hour ago, LCHorn said:

I was trying to rein myself in, because this is a good topic for discussion and there's probably five other ongoing threads that would make a better home for it, but just to quickly address your post, I'm using church attendance in the same overall bucket as any social group as described in Puttnam's "Bowling Alone".  It's not that they are religious, it's that it's a community not purely based on socioeconomic traits and encourages mixing of different personalities, political preferences, and there's good scholarship that the community takes the edge off extremist beliefs.  

FWIW, the Enlightenment had to reckon with your concern about faith versus secular values, and that tension heavily influenced the founding fathers.  I think Jefferson would say that religion doesn't open the mind to falsehood, but that many professed believers who's minds are already open to conspiracies and fantasy are more forgiving of the mystical as an explanation for things they can't comprehend.  

Taking it back to social media, the voter who believes that Jesus saved Trump from assassination no longer has a neighbor or fellow congregant who gently dissuades him; instead he's found a group on Facebook or X that is reinforcing his beliefs.  

What should be really scary is that these people are fundamentally lonely, and are going to be the very first community emotionally dependent on an AI that is too novel and unregulated to have much sense of what comes next.  

As far as not having a community to belong to, that's one of the biggest issues. The US has had a culture of weak familial bonds for a long time, and social media has replaced a lot of the in person social time we used to have. Inflation going out of control just seems to make that part worse. 

The community aspect of religion is helpful as long as it doesn't turn into a hate cult. Which, unfortunately, it mostly has. 

This lady accumulates social media posts of Americans venting. You can tell these are young people in need of support and feel let down by their country and community.  

 

 

 

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Posted
4 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

You’ve already been given that sign. It would be wise to have a plan that allows you to get out on short notice, even if it means leaving material possessions behind. 

I do have a plan to get us out of the continental US within 48 hours if need be. That would be temporary to allow some time to figure out a more permanent, lower cost place to live. 

It's difficult when you make good money but aren't "retire in your early 40s with 2 young adult daughters" rich. 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

This lady accumulates social media posts of Americans venting. You can tell these are young people in need of support and feel let down by their country and community.  

I have so little sympathy, though. somehow the under-30 vote went from massively in favor of Biden to dotard. they did this to themselves, with guidance - or lack thereof - from their parents

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

I do have a plan to get us out of the continental US within 48 hours if need be. That would be temporary to allow some time to figure out a more permanent, lower cost place to live. 

It's difficult when you make good money but aren't "retire in your early 40s with 2 young adult daughters" rich. 

I figure my background as an architect, builder, and developer would translate anywhere in the world. the metric system is probably what would do me in, though. lol. sigh.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I have so little sympathy, though. somehow the under-30 vote went from massively in favor of Biden to dotard. they did this to themselves, with guidance - or lack thereof - from their parents

Yeah, I'm not showing that to say anyone should feel bad for them. Shit, we should be feeling bad for ourselves right now. 

But that's just an example of the lack of community combined with living in a late stage democracy where the oligarchs have taken over and are bleeding the country dry like venture capitalists. Everyone that isnt rich is feeling the hurt to some extent no matter who they voted for, and it's only getting worse. 

I expect political killings, mass shootings, and crimes of desperation to grow and grow until the fascist regime brutally clamps down. If these clowns even have the competence to clamp down on anyone. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Hermanator said:

I expect political killings, mass shootings, and crimes of desperation to grow and grow until the fascist regime brutally clamps down. If these clowns even have the competence to clamp down on anyone. 

I keep thinking this too, and then I remind myself there are more guns than people in this country - a situation they created. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Hermanator said:

I do have a plan to get us out of the continental US within 48 hours if need be. That would be temporary to allow some time to figure out a more permanent, lower cost place to live. 

It's difficult when you make good money but aren't "retire in your early 40s with 2 young adult daughters" rich. 

I am glad to hear you have a plan. The money at that point that you’ll leave behind won’t mean much if you are facing an imminent threat to you and the life of your family. Just getting out is most important. You just rebuild from there is that is what becomes necessary. It won’t be easy, but the alternative is not fun.

Posted
 

It’s really the classic mistake when dealing with authoritarians. “If I appease him, I’m safe.” That is never, ever true. You have to add “until he inevitably decides that he’s done with me, which is when I’m fucked.” All that appeasing an authoritarian does is buy you time.
Only fighting AGAINST the authoritarian has any chance of securing you actual freedom. That’s it. It’s the only path.
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Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:


It’s really the classic mistake when dealing with authoritarians. “If I appease him, I’m safe.” That is never, ever true. You have to add “until he inevitably decides that he’s done with me, which is when I’m fucked.” All that appeasing an authoritarian does is buy you time.
Only fighting AGAINST the authoritarian has any chance of securing you actual freedom. That’s it. It’s the only path.

I cry no tears for the NYT. I could not possibly care any less if they ceased operations because they deserve a giant part of the blame for the last decade.

Also Haberman can get thrown in the middle of the Pacific with no life raft. You got your access and you helped destroy this country because you wanted a story more than doing the right thing.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Hermanator said:

I do have a plan to get us out of the continental US within 48 hours if need be. That would be temporary to allow some time to figure out a more permanent, lower cost place to live. 

It's difficult when you make good money but aren't "retire in your early 40s with 2 young adult daughters" rich. 

Not sure what your financial situation is but for the most part America is one of the highest COL countries on Earth and leaving it will stretch whatever US savings or leverage you have further. If the idea is get to Mexico and then figure it out afterwards-- Investing a couple hundred thousand into funds like QQQI (Nasdaq 100 income fund), SPYI (S&P 500 income fund), or BTCI (Bitcoin income fund) can give you an easy life abroad as they pay monthly distributions. Alot of US banks and digital banks make currency exchanges easier than ever for small fees- Charles Schwab is well known for it, as well as a newer startup called Wise that gets a ton of attention. Robin Hood is rolling out a banking option soon as well to keep eyes on.

Edited by StassneyHorn
Posted
6 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I figure my background as an architect, builder, and developer would translate anywhere in the world. the metric system is probably what would do me in, though. lol. sigh.

I'm a fellow architect but probably closer to the end of my career (if architects can be said to have such a thing). I'm quite conversant in the metric system and read Portuguese well enough to get through a set of drawings (lol specs though). Unfortunately my career has mostly been in high-rise residential, not really anything in much demand in the Algarve. That said, pay for architects is terrible in Europe and the UK, and whenever the time comes to go I'll likely do something else altogether. (I've already done much of the legwork, prior to this administration, so it'd just be a matter of sending some money and paperwork to my attorney in Lisbon.)

StassneyHorn is correct; the USA is an extremely expensive place to live; those who say they can't afford to live overseas probably should dig a little deeper. There are many amazing places out there with reasonable residency visas, more and more of the digital nomad variety. The holy grail is maintaining your US income for an expat COL, but even without that it's quite doable. If you go the pension/guaranteed income route, Portugal only requires something like $36k p.a. income; very tolerable places like Malaysia or the Philippines require a lot less and actively seek retirees.



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