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Русский корабль - иди нахуй


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4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

One of those videos showed a drone dropping smoke grenades - I saw this mentioned in a FB discussion I'm in about artillery, and they said the Ukrainians have got drone operators moving with the mechanized units, and they are using them to drop smoke grenades on the Russian positions for Ukrainian tanks and mechanized infantry to target.  It's simple but stunningly effective for a fellow soldier to be marking enemy positions a mile or two away from you with smoke grenades. Increases the survivability of the armored units, while increasing the amount of death/destruction visited upon the enemy.

Yeah, we are seeing all kinds of advancements in warfare, but the drone stuff is still wild - as has been mentioned many times, we're going to have to do the same in the US. 

Probably need a few new MOSes - the US Army has a 15W - Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) Operator, and I suppose it could fall under that, but I can think of quite a few variations on this that would require a lot of specialized training beyond simply piloting a UAV.

Yeah, DJI’s dominance of the cheap/effective drone market is a big problem.

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18 minutes ago, B00M said:

Yeah, DJI’s dominance of the cheap/effective drone market is a big problem.

 

Has the US military ever gone for the cheap and somewhat effective option? It seems like our focus is on the expensive, high tech (extremely effective) option.

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58 minutes ago, B00M said:

Yeah, DJI’s dominance of the cheap/effective drone market is a big problem.

The latest chatter from the front lines is that the advantage the Ukrainians had in drones is now being surpassed by the Russians.  The Russians are mass manufacturing Lancets and Shaheds while the Ukrainians are crowdfunding DJIs.

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40 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

Has the US military ever gone for the cheap and somewhat effective option? It seems like our focus is on the expensive, high tech (extremely effective) option.

May I present to you the grease gun over the Thompson?

Granted, that's a little bit of the past, but it does happen.

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9 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Also because we can just print the US Dollars we need for all those kickass Javelins, F35's and HIMARS's.

I know your are saying that in jest but fundamentally that is true, and has in fact happened in our past when we felt existentially threatened.  During WW2, we actually spent 40% of GDP on the war effort, even once it was clear that we were going to win.  (As to the amount we've given to Ukraine thus far, it represents .002 of our annual GDP).

I remember reading a book on Peloponnesian War many years ago, and if memory serves, it was written by a history professor at the University of Texas.  This isn't a direct quote because I am doing this from memory, but it went something along the lines of, "the organizing principal of all governments is make war, be it defensive or otherwise."  Basically that everything else is butter on top, i.e. social programs, schools, etc.  Anyway, that has always stuck with me (well that and the part where Themistocles tricked people into financing the Navy, which turned out to be huge).   

As it applies to this situation, for the Ukrainians, they should spend everything they can, anything that anyone will give them, innovate in any way possible, because if they do not, they may well not exist as a country.  Choosing not to would sort of like needing life saving surgery but opting not to do it because you think you can't financially afford it.  

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1 hour ago, Bevo said:

 

Has the US military ever gone for the cheap and somewhat effective option? It seems like our focus is on the expensive, high tech (extremely effective) option.

Yes, see f-16. Also see the air force's current plan for attributable drones to accompany our 6th generation fighter. But cheap is relative. 

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5 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I was talking to a friend who had retired from the Air Force, and works as a contractor doing avionics programming, and I mentioned the F-15EX is starting to show up in the AF, and that it was the Strike Eagle on acid, still with the back-seater and he said "you know, the back seater is going to eventually be another pilot who is running UAVs that do the actual strike missions while the F-15s are out of reach of the enemy, right?"

Looked it up, and he's right. They are planning that.

 

Every few weeks or so I'll see an officer in Futures Command. Any one of those guys could keep this board entertained for weeks. Unfortunately, I don't know what is secret vs. common knowledge so I keep it to myself. Plus, I don't ever get into specifics but keep it topical such as the future of tanks in modern warfare.

I should ask about cheap, mass produced drones. Because it does seem like that is something we are going to need to do or at least something we need to combat. And it does seem somewhat curious to me that drones could accompany stealth fighters and stealth helicopters. It seems to somewhat defeat the purpose of stealth if you increase the footprint or create multiple footprints in the sky. I imagine though that the drones would be somewhat distant from the plane so while there would be lots of things in the sky, it would be hard to get a radar lock to hit any individual drone.

And I imagine the Navy is going to have to totally re-imagine things. They are going to have to stay far away from shore. And carriers might be better off carrying a large number of smaller drones with smart bombs, missiles, and torpedoes rather than large planes with fighter pilots. Using planes as hubs and drones as the combatants is an interesting twist. It would totally change the type of planes and drones needed.

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6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I was talking to a friend who had retired from the Air Force, and works as a contractor doing avionics programming, and I mentioned the F-15EX is starting to show up in the AF, and that it was the Strike Eagle on acid, still with the back-seater and he said "you know, the back seater is going to eventually be another pilot who is running UAVs that do the actual strike missions while the F-15s are out of reach of the enemy, right?"

Looked it up, and he's right. They are planning that.

 

8 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes, see f-16. Also see the air force's current plan for attributable drones to accompany our 6th generation fighter. But cheap is relative. 

Yeah, the F15X is necessary as both a replacement bomb truck (the current Strike Eagles are worn out from the war on terror) and as a stand off ordnance carrier in coordination with the F35 in modern (read vs the Chinese) warfare. 
 

I feel like the Marines rolled upgraded Cobras after the introduction of the Apache’s because they were cheap, effective, and commanders weren’t afraid to potentially lose them due to cost (which is still a problem with the Apache).  
 

The MH6 has also provided decades of cheap, effective service. 

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8 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Lol at folks honestly thinking we "don't know/understand" the importance of modern drone warfare...

I’m just waiting for someone to actually show how a swarm could be. I’m talking hundreds of drones at one time. We see them doing light shows and making shapes. We should be able to create massive havoc with a true “swarm”. I know it’s the semi early days of the tech in military usage but soon we should see some pretty crazy formations…or should. I’m about to switch careers to a drone operator…

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1 hour ago, RockyMountainHighHorn said:

I’m just waiting for someone to actually show how a swarm could be. I’m talking hundreds of drones at one time. We see them doing light shows and making shapes. We should be able to create massive havoc with a true “swarm”. I know it’s the semi early days of the tech in military usage but soon we should see some pretty crazy formations…or should. I’m about to switch careers to a drone operator…

They’d need to be pretty autonomous to swarm like those light shows, unless it was militarily relevant to be able to program each one to be at specific places at specific times. Don’t think having them each flown by a person would work. Maybe if each flown one had some slave drones that mimicked movement and maintained a small distance, with a cascading order of the master drone if the master gets taken out? And a few clusters of those- so 5 swarms of 10 that might operate like a fighter group?

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13 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

Has the US military ever gone for the cheap and somewhat effective option? It seems like our focus is on the expensive, high tech (extremely effective) option.

One may argue the Sherman tank fits here.  Or the M1 Garand.  Or the M1 Carbine.

Gotta say though, the post WWII examples are somewhat limited.  

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2 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

Lol at folks honestly thinking we "don't know/understand" the importance of modern drone warfare...

 

Are you asking me to assume competence from the US military?

I grew up during the 1970s. Stripes was more or less a documentary.

 

2 hours ago, RockyMountainHighHorn said:

I’m just waiting for someone to actually show how a swarm could be. I’m talking hundreds of drones at one time. We see them doing light shows and making shapes. We should be able to create massive havoc with a true “swarm”. I know it’s the semi early days of the tech in military usage but soon we should see some pretty crazy formations…or should. I’m about to switch careers to a drone operator…

 

And these shows you see are happening in China, with Chinese-made drones.

We're way, way behind on this.

Short-term profits have led to us outsourcing our tech advantage.

 

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

image.png.5c3f25ac52f0e6b2a0628cac24ec608f.png

 

Charlize Theron Hope GIF

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 https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1696791286433427934?s=20  

 

 An amazing video by the 3rd assault brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces. This perfectly illustrates why @LibertyUkraineF

is focused on drones. You can see the drones providing situational awareness to the Ukrainian troops to save their lives when we are outnumbered and outgunned.

Edited by KYHorn
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43 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

They’d need to be pretty autonomous to swarm like those light shows, unless it was militarily relevant to be able to program each one to be at specific places at specific times. Don’t think having them each flown by a person would work. Maybe if each flown one had some slave drones that mimicked movement and maintained a small distance, with a cascading order of the master drone if the master gets taken out? And a few clusters of those- so 5 swarms of 10 that might operate like a fighter group?

Yeah, but imagine drones that could work in concert to lock onto individual targets and swarm an area with targeted attacks.  The drones would need some smarts and the ability to communicate amongst themselves, but this is how we end up in a Terminator movie.

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