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2 hours ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

it should be simple enough tp prove that he was informed.

Has he ever been "informed?"

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4 hours ago, F250 said:

Oh yeah that's going to stop Trump.

Stones need to just go ahead and sue trumps ass...now...don’t give a warning...sue him.  He’s not gonna stop using it.  He has no regard for rules or law.  Sue him..now.

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1 hour ago, TornACL said:

I see that our fake president has flooded his Twitter timeline with the pictures of hundreds of alleged status attackers, like he's some kind of two bit city council member. 

That's Larry David!
 

Lloyd Braun.

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1 hour ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Ironically, it is also at the root of what makes our country great.

This is also true. America may have been shaped with foundational aspects of Christianity, but many of people also hold that Christianity has become indelibly connected with Americanism. 

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2 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Evidently the White House is not denying the accuracy of Russian bounties on American lives, they’re just denying that Trump was ever briefed on it. “ It’s not my fault! I don’t know what’s going on!”

That is one of his several default statements.  I know nuttin’.  Like the pandemic problem...tried to fix, quickly gave up and told states to “handle it..handle it”.  Now, not my fault any more.  Insert fingers in ears, close eyes....say “lalalalala”.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Red Five said:

Why the hell wouldn't he have been?

Oh...he was, but he will deny it.  Plus....you can’t interview the person who informed him...either.

Edited by Cairn Horn88

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42 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

No, the kind of individualism we have been experiencing for the last half century or so is not the kind that made America great.

I should elaborate on this.  A capitalistic economy is inherently individualistic.  And our Constitution emphasizes individual rights to a degree previously unseen.

Those aspects of individuality made America great.  

More recently, a number of factors have conspired to emphasize individuality over community or individual responsibility (the two really kind of go hand-in-hand).

 

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42 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

No, the kind of individualism we have been experiencing for the last half century or so is not the kind that made America great.

I should elaborate on this.  A capitalistic economy is inherently individualistic.  And our Constitution emphasizes individual rights to a degree previously unseen.

Those aspects of individuality made America great.  

More recently, a number of factors have conspired to emphasize individuality over community or individual responsibility (the two really kind of go hand-in-hand).

 

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Organized religion’s support of trump will be its downfall. There is no coming back from that. 

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1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

Organized religion’s support of trump will be its downfall. There is no coming back from that. 

Maybe if larger swaths of organized religion supported Trump, you'd have a point.

Evangelicals are really disorganized religion.  They have no structure or hierarchy outside their own church.

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22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I should elaborate on this.  A capitalistic economy is inherently individualistic.  And our Constitution emphasizes individual rights to a degree previously unseen.

Those aspects of individuality made America great.  

More recently, a number of factors have conspired to emphasize individuality over community or individual responsibility (the two really kind of go hand-in-hand).

 

The big difference from my perspective is that we kept the individualism but have lost track of individual responsibility. Corporations don’t practice it, our leaders don’t practice it, now every day Americans have started to decide not to practice it. It’s discouraging. 

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19 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

The big difference from my perspective is that we kept the individualism but have lost track of individual responsibility. Corporations don’t practice it, our leaders don’t practice it, now every day Americans have started to decide not to practice it. It’s discouraging. 

I think it actually started with the "everyday Americans."  The boomers to be precise.  When they came to power, it was every man for himself and pull up the ladders behind you.

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This is the shit were Democrats will not make a big stink about it, I mean look what republicans did with Benghazi.

This is another softball they get thrown and do nothing about it. Go start doing hearings and get in front the camera 

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I don't see this one going away. Selling out the military is an almost unforgivable sin in most circles. I don't think any spin gets him out of this one. But I've been wrong before.. 

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18 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I don't see this one going away. Selling out the military is an almost unforgivable sin in most circles. I don't think any spin gets him out of this one. But I've been wrong before.. 

This might be true, but @Gengs1 point still stands. Dems won’t go as hard on this as the Republicans did on Benghazi. 

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

No, the kind of individualism we have been experiencing for the last half century or so is not the kind that made America great.

Could you elaborate on this?

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I should elaborate on this.  A capitalistic economy is inherently individualistic.  And our Constitution emphasizes individual rights to a degree previously unseen.

Those aspects of individuality made America great.  

More recently, a number of factors have conspired to emphasize individuality over community or individual responsibility (the two really kind of go hand-in-hand).

 

I've been thinking a little about this, and am sure there are people here on Surly that have got more wisdom in this area. I'm also aware that this is a possible thread derail; so I'm happy to think through this in another forum/thread).

But (and I'll admit I've been influenced by this podcast series), I think that the truth of the bolded above depends on the definition of "great" that we're using.

The American Experiment is certainly unique, and has amazing elements that should be celebrated and built upon. But some of our common ways we've described our exceptionalism are incomplete in ways. For instance, we talk about our greatness in terms of liberties and freedoms, but also have an incarceration rate for our citizenry that's among the highest in the world (if not the highest- 'Merica! #1!).

We think about our economic greatness, but don't often openly discuss that it is built on hundreds of years of unpaid and enslaved labor. We don't also reflect that much of our current place in the world's economy is due to the manufacturing buildup necessary during WW2 and the benefit of being fortunate enough to be the only remaining industrial power following V-E and V-J days. (We also don't talk a lot about the economic impacts, benefits and losses, of the incarceration situation mentioned earlier).

If we define greatness in other ways, (education, equity, environmental stewardship, etc.), the conversation changes somewhat. Taking the idea of equity, if we believe the quote attributed to Ghandi that "“A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members", we have real issues. Enormous income and educational imbalances across our nation point to work towards greatness that needs to done.

But- to the point that started this... if we're only defining greatness through individual terms, then we can get stuck not caring about others, outside of seeing them as benchmarks by which to measure our individual successes and areas for growth.

Which is why it's so frustrating that our religion and spirituality have been co-opted to the point where we've lost this. A hallmark of spirituality is recognizing not just our personal worth, but our interconnectedness and the worth of others.

(except for Aggies and Michigan fans. screw those people)

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4 hours ago, JimmyJames said:

Organized religion’s support of trump will be its downfall. There is no coming back from that. 

Yeah, right. 

25priestsalutehitler.jpg

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10 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


I’ll ask her.
But I might not listen, cuz, you know, we’re married. And that’s how that goes.

We have created a cult of the individual, at the complete and total expense of the commonwealth/the common good/community.
And we just happened to get hit with 1) a crisis that is communal in nature, both in its risk and in its prevention (a highly communicable disease), while 2) we are led by the perfect personification of our sociopathic individualism: a malignant narcissist who believed only in the “me,” and not at all in the “we.”
This is such a perfect coincidence that it actually does make you wonder if God is actually saying “okay, fuckers, you wanted it this way - here you go.” It’s almost too perfect(ly awful).

If Trump nation are God’s chosen people, I have to seriously question his omnipotence.

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9 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Nice video, but was expecting this one TBH

 

 

9 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

That is BamaChick's spirit animal.

I would like to think that’s how @Bama Chick would go out if she ever found herself at a Trump rally.

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What mean "everybody", Tonto?  

Welp, he just put it on everybody's radar.  So the real reporting can begin.  Russia played bounty hunter with American troops.  

samelliottvoice/ "The American people can stomach a lot.  But they are not going to stomach you dismissing this because of your fear of/allegiance to Putin." 

He knows even his most ardent base supporters won't tolerate him turning a blind eye to Russia and Afghani's doing this, so he has no choice but just shout that it's a manufactured story. He will go on an anti-media rampage the likes of which we have not yet seen because that's his only play.  And because of that, what little trust there is among his followers to listen to the media when it comes to Covid-19, BLM/protesting/reform, etc....It will be completely gone.  And we'll have the most fucked up November in U.S. history.  

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2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

What mean "everybody", Tonto?  

Welp, he just put it on everybody's radar.  So the real reporting can begin.  Russia played bounty hunter with American troops.  

samelliottvoice/ "The American people can stomach a lot.  But they are not going to stomach you dismissing this because of your fear of/allegiance to Putin." 

He knows even his most ardent base supporters won't tolerate him turning a blind eye to Russia and Afghani's doing this, so he has no choice but just shout that it's a manufactured story. He will go on an anti-media rampage the likes of which we have not yet seen because that's his only play.  And because of that, what little trust there is among his followers to listen to the media when it comes to Covid-19, BLM/protesting/reform, etc....It will be completely gone.  And we'll have the most fucked up November in U.S. history.  

Nice work, Donald.  Now the media is going to spend all week discussing this.  Looks like turn around week doesn’t start till after the 4th of July.  Scratch off another 10 days of losing the news cycle.

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25 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Good morning!

 

Who are you firing for failing to inform you of this (though everyone knows this is a lie) and now that you do know, what are you going to do to punish Russia?

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So Trump is REALLY going to use the "nobody told me" defense? Isn't that defense invalid once you've reached about...oh, 15 years old?

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Shouldn’t the real response to the Russia story be something about calling Putin today to tell him to back the f-off, and that we expect those responsible to be handed over immediately to us?

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1 minute ago, HenryJames said:

 

So he is really trying to use the ‘what do you expect me to read everything I’m given’ excuse.  

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Just now, DigDug said:

So he is really trying to use the ‘what do you expect me to read everything I’m given’ excuse.  

He should use the "I don't know how to read" excuse. That would actually be believable.

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43 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Good morning!

 

 

7 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Well technically you do have to read, or listen to, the daily briefings, depending on how they are given, to actually be briefed.

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17 minutes ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

In which we get a “white power” quip from a POTUS retweet. All these clowns can hurry up and die.

 

Umm...what the fuck.  This is real (I checked).

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I could actually believe that if something is in a report, he doesn’t know about it. And there are reports that since he became president, it’s difficult for advisors to bring up Russia because that focuses him on the investigations on him.

i cannot wait for the 2021 investigations into all of these lies. 

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29 minutes ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

In which we get a “white power” quip from a POTUS retweet. All these clowns can hurry up and die.

 

 

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Iran definitely better watch it's ass. Trump might to start that war a little earlier than he planned.

 

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7 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Not sure where to post this...

 

Catchy tune. I’m going to have it in my head about “injecting Obama with the Wuhan flu“ all day now.

More to the story where Cohen had some trouble getting out of there.  Great troll job by him. Hats off.

 

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9 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Iran definitely better watch it's ass. Trump might to start that war a little earlier than he planned.

 

He is too much of a wimp to really start a war with Iran or any big country.  I would think a war with some Caribbean island is more likely.  His followers will eat that up the same way.  USA-1, Barbados-0.

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43 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

To be fair, it's been widely reported that Trump doesn't read his daily briefs. 

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7 hours ago, NWBuck said:

I've been thinking a little about this, and am sure there are people here on Surly that have got more wisdom in this area. I'm also aware that this is a possible thread derail; so I'm happy to think through this in another forum/thread).

But (and I'll admit I've been influenced by this podcast series), I think that the truth of the bolded above depends on the definition of "great" that we're using.

The American Experiment is certainly unique, and has amazing elements that should be celebrated and built upon. But some of our common ways we've described our exceptionalism are incomplete in ways. For instance, we talk about our greatness in terms of liberties and freedoms, but also have an incarceration rate for our citizenry that's among the highest in the world (if not the highest- 'Merica! #1!).

We think about our economic greatness, but don't often openly discuss that it is built on hundreds of years of unpaid and enslaved labor. We don't also reflect that much of our current place in the world's economy is due to the manufacturing buildup necessary during WW2 and the benefit of being fortunate enough to be the only remaining industrial power following V-E and V-J days. (We also don't talk a lot about the economic impacts, benefits and losses, of the incarceration situation mentioned earlier).

If we define greatness in other ways, (education, equity, environmental stewardship, etc.), the conversation changes somewhat. Taking the idea of equity, if we believe the quote attributed to Ghandi that "“A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members", we have real issues. Enormous income and educational imbalances across our nation point to work towards greatness that needs to done.

But- to the point that started this... if we're only defining greatness through individual terms, then we can get stuck not caring about others, outside of seeing them as benchmarks by which to measure our individual successes and areas for growth.

Which is why it's so frustrating that our religion and spirituality have been co-opted to the point where we've lost this. A hallmark of spirituality is recognizing not just our personal worth, but our interconnectedness and the worth of others.

(except for Aggies and Michigan fans. screw those people)

Yeah, I thought about asterisk'ing that.

But I might also suggest that a lot of the problems you note have become exacerbated more recently.

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Posted (edited)

Having political figures speak at your church, on Sunday, not as part of some lecture series, but on worship day is just flat out wrong.  It's un-Christian and it's un-American.  I don't care if they confine their remarks to their spirituality or don't electioneer.

I'd switch churches the first time that happened.

I'm not going to advocate that churches be taxed for the 100,000+ other churches that do and would do no such thing.  I would argue passionately that FBC and "Dream Church" and Gateway Church should have their exemptions stripped.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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8 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

To be fair, it's been widely reported that Trump doesn't read his daily briefs. 

Sometimes they are read to him.  Like a toddler.

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mpu


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