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2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don [Results begin on page 409]


Patrick Bateman

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6 minutes ago, BigXII said:

Production values are mainly a function of providing enough funding to let visionaries do whatever they want. Throughout history, the visionaries in film have come from all sorts of ideologies; Birth of the Nation was taught in a class I took at UT, and we also looked at Lemi Riefenstahl and Sergei Eisenstein and the effects of Nazi and soviet propaganda respectively. The ultimate common factor I noticed was having a leader that pumped money into those programs.

Michael Bay has no problems doing right-wing stuff. Fox News follows the same template news machine aesthetic very well because it has significant funding. Trump's administration just wasn't interested in producing more than WCW levels of production is all.

Example:

800.jpeg

Dude a laptop from 2001 and a hacked version of photoshop can do better than this rinky dink shit.

If I’m still alive in 50 years that will still be my favorite image of Trump’s presidency. A man so incapable of admitting that he has ever been wrong about anything in his life that, instead of admitting that he misspoke based on outdated information, he drew in his favorite fucking sharpie on a map that he expected ANYONE to believe that he was actually right all along. Holy fuck, what a clown. 

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This is probably better suited for the bourbon thread but I don’t think I’ve ever jumped from a glass of blantons straight into a glass of stagg. Blanton'sis my go to bourbon, my favorite reasonably available bourbon. Going from that right into the stagg really smacks you in the face with how huge the stagg really is. 
I'd like to hear more about this mythical land where Blanton's is "reasonably available"
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6 minutes ago, Pancho said:

giphy.gif

Seriously, the first person on Fox News to talk about the speech was Karl Rove and he had nothing but good things to say about it. Said it was perfectly Biden and exactly what both sides of the nation needed to hear. 

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https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/07/us/biden-trump#which-four-seasons-oh-not-that-one

 

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Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, was standing in the parking lot of Four Seasons Total Landscaping in far northeast Philadelphia, as close to a Trump enclave as a decidedly Democratic city gets, highlighting alleged examples of voter fraud when the networks called the presidential race for Joseph R. Biden Jr.

The surroundings were humble for such a seminal moment — a podium set up in front of a closed garage door decorated with a campaign poster — especially after a presidential tweet in the morning had advertised something that sounded a lot more upscale.

 

Quote

“Lawyers News Conference Four Seasons, Philadelphia. 11:00 a.m.,” President Trump tweeted Saturday morning, before issuing a corrective and explaining that he did not mean the luxury downtown hotel near the city’s convention center and was referring instead to a business called Four Seasons Total Landscaping.

The correction quickly met with derision and glee among many blue-checkmark Twitter users, who assumed the campaign had accidentally booked the wrong venue. The landscaping business, after all, was situated near a porn shop, Fantasy Island Adult Bookstore, and a crematorium.

 

Quote

The apparent mishap went viral, with celebrities weighing in. “Four Seasons Total Landscaping is also my secret code name for a bikini wax,” the actress Emmy Rossum tweeted Saturday evening.

The actual hotel issued its own corrective. “To clarify, President Trump’s press conference will NOT be held at Four Seasons Hotel Philadelphia,” the corporate account tweeted. “It will be held at Four Seasons Total Landscaping— no relation with the hotel.”

 

Spoiler

In reality, the mistake was not in the booking, but in a garbled game of telephone. Mr. Giuliani and the Trump campaign adviser Corey Lewandowski told the president on Saturday morning their intended location for the news conference and he misunderstood, assuming it was an upscale hotel, according to multiple people familiar with the matter.

But the campaign had always intended to hold the news conference in a friendlier part of town. The president’s team had struggled with news conferences in this Democratic stronghold all week. Since Wednesday, the streets outside of the Convention Center have been filled with pro-Biden protesters chanting, “Count every vote!” On multiple occasions, the Trump campaign surrogates were drowned out and surrounded by the much larger pro-Biden crowd.

Earlier this week, Pam Bondi, the former attorney general of Florida, and Mr. Lewandowski attempted to hold a celebratory news conference after obtaining a favorable court order in Pennsylvania. But a local D.J. blasting Beyoncé completely overpowered Ms. Bondi, who was forced to simply hold up the order as most of the media gathered nearby could not hear her speaking.

Dan Scavino, the keeper of the presidential Twitter feed and a deputy White House chief of staff for communications, eventually tweeted out the corrective, people familiar with the event said, while White House officials overall were rolling their eyes and dismissing the entire embarrassing episode as another “Rudy special.”

The campaign declined to comment, as did the White House.

On Saturday evening, while Mr. Biden was addressing the country in his first remarks as president-elect, Mr. Lewandowski tweeted: “All great Americans in PA use Four Seasons Total Landscaping. They love this country and are American Patriots. Thank you!!”

 

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2 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Rove hates trump 

Makes sense. I can’t imagine why any republican that doesn’t need to be elected by, or is directly profiting off of the Trumper base wouldn’t hate how he grabbed the GOP by the pussy. 

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5 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Brian Kemp’s personal Twitter is promising an audit and a recount in Georgia. You know there will be a ton of political pressure to make shit up.

Gee, wonder if there was an audit and recount on his election a few years back.  After all, he was the sitting Secretary of State overseeing the election.

 

Quote

Kemp retained his office as Georgia Secretary of State throughout the campaign, leading to allegations of a conflict of interest for overseeing an election in which Kemp himself was a candidate. During the campaign, he was called upon by former President Jimmy Carter[227] and the Georgia chapters of the NAACP and Common Cause, to resign. Kemp refused to do so[228] until after he claimed victory, two days following the election. Kemp also accused the state Democratic Party of hacking into the state's voter database a few days before the election; however, an email released shortly after the accusation was made showed the party warning election security experts, highlighting "massive" vulnerabilities within the state's My Voter Page and its online voter registration system, not an attempt to hack the database, as Kemp had claimed.[229]

 

Quote

Irregularities in voter registration occurred prior to the day of the election: over 300,000 people were wrongly flagged by the state as being ineligible to vote,[230] and 53,000 voter registrations were delayed by Kemp's office without adequately notifying the applicants.[231] These irregularities, which disproportionately affected black voters, resulted in allegations that Kemp was using voter suppression to increase his chances of winning the contest.[231] Georgia election officials responded to these allegations by stating that any voter flagged for irregularities could still vote, receiving a regular ballot (not a provisional ballot), by providing ID at a valid polling place, as is required of all voters by state law.[232] Concerning the question of why the pending registration status mattered if those voters could vote normally at the polls, critics claimed that learning of this status might discourage those voters from turning out to the polls at all.[233]

 

 

 

 

Edited by Francisco 2.0
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3 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Brian Kemp’s personal Twitter is promising an audit and a recount in Georgia. You know there will be a ton of political pressure to make shit up.

Obviously not needed but would be great to keep Georgia to run up the score and protect against any fuckery. 

Haven’t paid attention to the count in any other races today, is the current expectation that Biden holds on to Arizona?
 

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10 minutes ago, BradInATX said:
26 minutes ago, heso said:
This is probably better suited for the bourbon thread but I don’t think I’ve ever jumped from a glass of blantons straight into a glass of stagg. Blanton'sis my go to bourbon, my favorite reasonably available bourbon. Going from that right into the stagg really smacks you in the face with how huge the stagg really is. 

I'd like to hear more about this mythical land where Blanton's is "reasonably available"

Up until about 2 years ago I could walk into my local liquor store and grab a bottle off the shelf at any time. After that it started getting more and more rare. 

By a year ago it was hard to get. For Xmas my wife happened to somehow luck onto the PA liquor website and they had a bunch for sale with a 3 bottle limit. She got me 3 for Xmas. You had to have it shipped to a liquor store. A week after she got those bottles she got a call from the liquor store that her 3 bottles had arrived. So for Xmas last year I got 6 bottles of blantons. 

thats reasonably available. 

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Obviously not needed but would be great to keep Georgia to run up the score and protect against any fuckery. 
Haven’t paid attention to the count in any other races today, is the current expectation that Biden holds on to Arizona?
 

I think the expectation at this point is 306, adding AZ and GA.
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Up until about 2 years ago I could walk into my local liquor store and grab a bottle off the shelf at any time. After that it started getting more and more rare. 
By a year ago it was hard to get. For Xmas my wife happened to somehow luck onto the PA liquor website and they had a bunch for sale with a 3 bottle limit. She got me 3 for Xmas. You had to have it shipped to a liquor store. A week after she got those bottles she got a call from the liquor store that her 3 bottles had arrived. So for Xmas last year I got 6 bottles of blantons. 
thats reasonably available. 
Nice. Haven't seen it locally in about two years. Stocked up when I went to Buffalo Trace last year. Running lower than I'd like.
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4 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

Obviously not needed but would be great to keep Georgia to run up the score and protect against any fuckery. 

Haven’t paid attention to the count in any other races today, is the current expectation that Biden holds on to Arizona?
 

It wouldn’t actually surprise to see Arizona to go over to Trump by a small margin.

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3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Nice. Haven't seen it locally in about two years. Stocked up when I went to Buffalo Trace last year. Running lower than I'd like.

I have 1.3 bottles left and it’s going to be hard to open that last bottle after having what felt like an endless supply. 

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2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Odd story in that it references Trump has conditions for an appropriate transfer of power but then doesn't mention it again. It wouldn't shock me if he offers a normal transfer (Nov-Jan 21 cooperation) if Joe pardons him. 

I could see Biden doing that to heal the country. 

 

Sure, if he wants to doom his presidency.  Biden may not run again, but that would be a 10X Gerald Ford move.  Nixon pales in comparison to the wobbling turd we've had to endure for the last 4 years.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-election-lose/2020/11/07/27b627ce-2123-11eb-b532-05c751cd5dc2_story.html

 

Quote

On Saturday, Donald Trump finally became the one thing he hates the most: a loser.

President Trump had just arrived at his namesake golf course in Sterling, Va., on Saturday morning — whizzing past signs blaring “Biden/Harris” and “Good Riddance” — when Democratic nominee Joe Biden pulled so far ahead in the Pennsylvania vote count that, four days after Election Day, he was finally declared the next president of the United States.

That Trump was pummeling drives off a tee box as Biden made the transition from former vice president to president-elect was a fitting coda for a leader who craved the perks and power of the office but often seemed reluctant to do the job.

 

Quote

The president remained cosseted away at Trump National Golf Club for three more hours, finishing his morning on the links with Kevin Morris, the club’s manager, in one of the few situations he could still control to his own liking.

There, club members shouted, “We love you!” and “Great job, Mr. President.” Then, as Trump lined up his shot on the green (two putts, from about 50 feet), supporters offered more words of encouragement: “You can make it!”

“We’ve got a long way to go,” the president said — seeming to refer to the 2020 election results — while offering a thumbs-up and fist pump, according to a club member who snapped a photo of him as he zipped by in his cart.

The excursion marked Trump’s 209th day golfing since becoming president, according to CBS News White House correspondent Mark Knoller — 104 more than Barack Obama, Trump’s predecessor whom he excoriated for golfing.

 

Quote

Historically, when Trump has faced down the prospect of failure — his divorces, his bankruptcies, his broke casinos, his fledgling football team and airline — he has simply walked away, either claiming victory or decrying an unfair system rigged against him, the victim.

Even before the election results began clearly listing toward Biden, the president and his team had been following that playbook. On Saturday, the campaign put out a statement on behalf of Trump almost immediately after Biden was declared the winner, falsely claiming that “the election is far from over.”

But now, with Biden set to become the nation’s 46th president, it will be harder for Trump to ignore that reality, even if he never actually admits defeat. If Trump incinerates a final presidential norm by refusing to offer a gracious concession speech and attend his successor’s Inauguration Day, he will still, in 10 weeks, have to pack up the White House residence and vacate perhaps the most coveted address in America: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

 

Spoiler

On Saturday, the outside world seemed determined to force a man not known for his introspection to grapple with the magnitude of his loss. A CNN chyron blared: “Cities erupt in celebration after Biden beats Trump.” Both Trump’s home city of New York and his temporary one of Washington — where 92.6 percent of voters chose Biden — were awash in euphoria.

Biden supporters thronged to the White House almost immediately, prompting officials to use snowplows to help move the crowd to make way for Trump’s motorcade when he returned from golf, clad in a crisp white “Make America Great Again” hat. The crowd performed the Village People’s “Y.M.C.A,” the walk-off music at Trump’s recent rallies — a throbbing mass jumping up and down with both relief and elation.

Many of the hundreds gathered by the White House on Saturday afternoon seemed blissfully unaware of the president’s whereabouts. Some waved Biden flags, danced to Beyoncé and sprayed one another with champagne. Others hugged and kissed or — eyes moist with tears — called relatives and friends scattered throughout the country.

One man, draped in a Puerto Rican flag, tossed a double pack of Bounty paper towels over the fence toward the White House — a reference to Trump’s visit to the hurricane-ravaged island early in his presidency, when he cavalierly tossed paper towels like basketballs into the crowd.

Back in Trumpworld, the efforts at counterprogramming had a characteristically slapdash feel. Before Biden was declared the winner, the Trump campaign had scheduled a news conference at Four Seasons Total Landscaping in Philadelphia with the president’s lawyers, but when Trump initially tweeted it out, he incorrectly implied it was at the Four Seasons Hotel. The hotel’s Philadelphia location quickly offered its own clarification, tweeting: “To clarify, President Trump’s press conference will NOT be held at Four Seasons Hotel Philadelphia. It will be held at Four Seasons Total Landscaping — no relation with the hotel.”

Trump’s lawyers did ultimately show up at the right spot, speaking against a makeshift backdrop of blue and red Trump signs at the landscaping business, in view of a crematorium and an adult entertainment shop named “Fantasy Island.” Trump’s personal attorney, Rudolph W. Giuliani, yelled at the news conference that all the networks calling the race could be wrong.

Trump officials contradict each other’s election messaging

On conference calls that morning with allies, Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien and deputy campaign manager Justin Clark encouraged donors to contribute to a legal fund and urged their supporters to “stay at the ready.” Stepien said the campaign may be “propping up” rallies, protests and other events in upcoming weeks.

“We may need your help and support on the ground, waving flags and yelling the president’s name in support,” Stepien said.

Such public enthusiasm, Stepien implied, might buoy Trump’s mood: “It would be great for the president to see it.”

One person close to the White House, however, said the efforts in the states were less about actually contesting the election results and more about helping Trump come to terms with his defeat. “The legal operation is designed for Trump to save face and ultimately give him the ability to say he didn’t lose the election fair and square,” this person said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to share details of private discussions. “So we’re going to roll with it.”

White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, meanwhile, found himself battling the novel coronavirus, along with several other aides, potentially turning the White House into a virus hot spot yet again. Meadows had accompanied Trump on an Election Day visit to campaign headquarters in Arlington, Va., and later attended his election night party in the East Room — sans mask for both.

Even Meadows’s own colleagues and allies were furious with him, said one senior administration official, noting that Meadows didn’t share his diagnosis with his team until after it broke Friday night in the media.

The president’s orbit on Saturday night remained divided into two camps, with an increasing number of people accepting the election results, even if they weren’t willing to say as much publicly — and certainly not to Trump himself.

Several said that while they ultimately expect the president to help with a peaceful transition of power, he is unlikely to ever admit defeat, and he needs to reach the inevitable conclusion — that Biden will be president — on his own time frame.

Some advisers were urging the president to consider his political future — which they described as powerful in the GOP — and to not taint his legacy with a messy exit, according to two officials in touch with Trump. But Trump’s adult sons were urging him to keep fighting. Both were annoyed at other influential GOP figures who, in their view, were not fighting hard enough, the officials said.

Frank Luntz, a longtime Republican pollster, described Trump as being at a crossroads.

“I think what Donald Trump does in the next seven days will determine his future as well as America’s future,” Luntz said. “The more that he fights, the stronger he becomes among his supporters, and the weaker he becomes among everybody else. It’s been clear to me from the comments that I’ve gotten today. From the hard-core Trump people, he needs to stay and fight. From everybody else, he needs to accept the outcome. And there is no middle ground.”

As evening fell, so too did the president’s mood. Though he had largely seemed sanguine in the days after the polls closed, and even while golfing, one person who spoke with Trump on Friday said the president was angry and felt as if the election has been stolen from him.

And then, back in the White House on Saturday night, Trump sent out tweets meant to undermine the results of the election.

“THE OBSERVERS WERE NOT ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTING ROOMS,” he wrote in one, repeating a common falsehood percolating in pro-Trump circles.

But a glimpse of Trump earlier in the day, at his private golf club, was perhaps more illustrative of the post-White House future he could very well inhabit. After finishing his round, the president, looking slightly deflated, ran into a bridal party and paused to pose for pictures.

He stood next to the bride, flashing a thumbs-up, before the bridesmaids — bubbly in frosting-pink dresses — squealed their way into the photo.

“Thank you, Mr. President! We love you!” called the breathless onlookers.

“Have a great life, right?” Trump replied, before lumbering away into the safety of his Trump-branded clubhouse.

 

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The difference is 9k and growing. Good luck

Brian Kemp is total fucking scum and not at all above complete fucking fabrication.

I fear whatever chances of the unity and healing Biden is talking about will be it the window because of the situation in GA over the next couple months.
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1 minute ago, Ted Lange said:

I thought GA had an automatic recount if the vote was within a point.  

Can't wait for it to happen. Trump will send his band of idiots to monitor every second, the change in the numbers will be negligible--like it always is for recounts--and he'll finally just be spinning in the wind, and hopefully it will bring the otherwise more sane supporters latching onto this fraud conspiracy bullshit back to reality.

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52 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

You're a bigger man than me. I tried to troll some friends with Gritty memes, but none of them have a clue what it is referencing. Took the fun right out of it.

I did call my dad without bringing up the election to his "liberals should all rot in hell" wife, so that was big of me...but she knew damn well why I was calling today of all days.

My dad and older relatives who were Trump supporters, I didn't say shit when talking to them on the phone, just talked college football today.  Actually, I've been keeping the election stuff out of our conversations this week, outside of "you'll be fine, you survived Obama, you can survive anything" earlier in the week.

Qanon relative, I'm actually a little concerned that she might lose it - she's got her boyfriend, but still, she can spiral into a depression like nobody's business, but I'm also not going to sit back when she rolls out her stuff about "OBSERVERS NOT ABLE TO OBSERVE IN PHILLY" stuff, with video clips from Fox News proving her wrong.

I'd like to go all Gritty on a lot of these people though.

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Napped that champagne off. Night time is for the brown stuff. These are my two "will probably never find again" bottles that get saved for big wins. This qualifies. The Balcones is a rum cask aged version of their single malt that I've only seen one time and was only available at the distillery. It's incredible. 5082aec24dfda37a2ecfca1c8ffe43be.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-election-lose/2020/11/07/27b627ce-2123-11eb-b532-05c751cd5dc2_story.html

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

On Saturday, the outside world seemed determined to force a man not known for his introspection to grapple with the magnitude of his loss. A CNN chyron blared: “Cities erupt in celebration after Biden beats Trump.” Both Trump’s home city of New York and his temporary one of Washington — where 92.6 percent of voters chose Biden — were awash in euphoria.

Biden supporters thronged to the White House almost immediately, prompting officials to use snowplows to help move the crowd to make way for Trump’s motorcade when he returned from golf, clad in a crisp white “Make America Great Again” hat. The crowd performed the Village People’s “Y.M.C.A,” the walk-off music at Trump’s recent rallies — a throbbing mass jumping up and down with both relief and elation.

Many of the hundreds gathered by the White House on Saturday afternoon seemed blissfully unaware of the president’s whereabouts. Some waved Biden flags, danced to Beyoncé and sprayed one another with champagne. Others hugged and kissed or — eyes moist with tears — called relatives and friends scattered throughout the country.

One man, draped in a Puerto Rican flag, tossed a double pack of Bounty paper towels over the fence toward the White House — a reference to Trump’s visit to the hurricane-ravaged island early in his presidency, when he cavalierly tossed paper towels like basketballs into the crowd.

Back in Trumpworld, the efforts at counterprogramming had a characteristically slapdash feel. Before Biden was declared the winner, the Trump campaign had scheduled a news conference at Four Seasons Total Landscaping in Philadelphia with the president’s lawyers, but when Trump initially tweeted it out, he incorrectly implied it was at the Four Seasons Hotel. The hotel’s Philadelphia location quickly offered its own clarification, tweeting: “To clarify, President Trump’s press conference will NOT be held at Four Seasons Hotel Philadelphia. It will be held at Four Seasons Total Landscaping — no relation with the hotel.”

Trump’s lawyers did ultimately show up at the right spot, speaking against a makeshift backdrop of blue and red Trump signs at the landscaping business, in view of a crematorium and an adult entertainment shop named “Fantasy Island.” Trump’s personal attorney, Rudolph W. Giuliani, yelled at the news conference that all the networks calling the race could be wrong.

Trump officials contradict each other’s election messaging

On conference calls that morning with allies, Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien and deputy campaign manager Justin Clark encouraged donors to contribute to a legal fund and urged their supporters to “stay at the ready.” Stepien said the campaign may be “propping up” rallies, protests and other events in upcoming weeks.

“We may need your help and support on the ground, waving flags and yelling the president’s name in support,” Stepien said.

Such public enthusiasm, Stepien implied, might buoy Trump’s mood: “It would be great for the president to see it.”

One person close to the White House, however, said the efforts in the states were less about actually contesting the election results and more about helping Trump come to terms with his defeat. “The legal operation is designed for Trump to save face and ultimately give him the ability to say he didn’t lose the election fair and square,” this person said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to share details of private discussions. “So we’re going to roll with it.”

White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, meanwhile, found himself battling the novel coronavirus, along with several other aides, potentially turning the White House into a virus hot spot yet again. Meadows had accompanied Trump on an Election Day visit to campaign headquarters in Arlington, Va., and later attended his election night party in the East Room — sans mask for both.

Even Meadows’s own colleagues and allies were furious with him, said one senior administration official, noting that Meadows didn’t share his diagnosis with his team until after it broke Friday night in the media.

The president’s orbit on Saturday night remained divided into two camps, with an increasing number of people accepting the election results, even if they weren’t willing to say as much publicly — and certainly not to Trump himself.

Several said that while they ultimately expect the president to help with a peaceful transition of power, he is unlikely to ever admit defeat, and he needs to reach the inevitable conclusion — that Biden will be president — on his own time frame.

Some advisers were urging the president to consider his political future — which they described as powerful in the GOP — and to not taint his legacy with a messy exit, according to two officials in touch with Trump. But Trump’s adult sons were urging him to keep fighting. Both were annoyed at other influential GOP figures who, in their view, were not fighting hard enough, the officials said.

Frank Luntz, a longtime Republican pollster, described Trump as being at a crossroads.

“I think what Donald Trump does in the next seven days will determine his future as well as America’s future,” Luntz said. “The more that he fights, the stronger he becomes among his supporters, and the weaker he becomes among everybody else. It’s been clear to me from the comments that I’ve gotten today. From the hard-core Trump people, he needs to stay and fight. From everybody else, he needs to accept the outcome. And there is no middle ground.”

As evening fell, so too did the president’s mood. Though he had largely seemed sanguine in the days after the polls closed, and even while golfing, one person who spoke with Trump on Friday said the president was angry and felt as if the election has been stolen from him.

And then, back in the White House on Saturday night, Trump sent out tweets meant to undermine the results of the election.

“THE OBSERVERS WERE NOT ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTING ROOMS,” he wrote in one, repeating a common falsehood percolating in pro-Trump circles.

But a glimpse of Trump earlier in the day, at his private golf club, was perhaps more illustrative of the post-White House future he could very well inhabit. After finishing his round, the president, looking slightly deflated, ran into a bridal party and paused to pose for pictures.

He stood next to the bride, flashing a thumbs-up, before the bridesmaids — bubbly in frosting-pink dresses — squealed their way into the photo.

“Thank you, Mr. President! We love you!” called the breathless onlookers.

“Have a great life, right?” Trump replied, before lumbering away into the safety of his Trump-branded clubhouse.

 

Fuck this narrative that Trump isn't used to losing.  He'd declared bankruptcy 6 times and been divorced twice.  He's had very difficult conversations with banks.  His dept is all at subprime rates for God's sake.  He's intimately involved with losing.

He just wants to make people think he's won at everything and the media buys into this.

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