Fuck Big 12 refs

[ultimaton 2926]

1 hour ago, dr99 said:

According to RG3 you can pull out a weapon and attack the player as long as it is behind the line of scrimmage

I loved that right after that, they showed an angry fan and RG3 arrogantly says "And there's somebody that doesn't know the rules."

[smoky 837]

They claimed they reviewed it when they said "oh never mind Texas didn't take a timeout". BUT I have yet to see any video evidence of Kevin Mar actually going over to the little bullshit screen they set up to review stuff.

Yup. The White Hat said they were reviewing the play, but I think he meant "we were going over the play with sark"

[Deej 76080]

Big 12 refs on Mondays, after calling a Texas game...

 

 

[OU Sucks 8667]

 

[DFW Horn 6020]

RG3 and many in-game announcers aren't well-versed in NCAA rules.

For example, you always hear them reference a "lateral" when debating whether or not a pass was backwards. You won't find that word anywhere in the NCAA rule book. When in doubt, officials are trained to rule a pass forward and blow the play dead on a dropped ball.

UT got fucked on the intentional grounding play above and a number of missed OL holds, but the BU option drop wasn't one of them.

[JBJ 3591]

Yes.  A sideways pass behind the line of scrimmage is always ruled forward and from beyond the line of scrimmage is always ruled backwards.

[Nivek 16643]

• Kevin Mar. He formerly was a Pac-12 referee who worked the 2018 Senior Bowl and was in the ODP in 2017. Mar also spent time in the Mountain West and Big 12 before going to the Pac-12 as a white hat

This is the weird thing to me that makes it even stranger from a tinfoil hat perspective.  This isn't some West Texas homegrown TechTard or some dude who grew up in the heart of aggyland.  

That is because it is directed explicitly or implied as part of their job.

[Rickylovesweed 14076]

Somebody should figure out how many holding penalties were committed by teams Texas played in the Big 12. It has to be a very small number. 

 

[Billy Pilgrim 1868]

I don’t think this crew was particularly biased today, I think they’re just REALLY incompetent. I didn’t disagree with any calls they made against us- most were false starts. At least they didn’t call back any big plays due to holding. They were more just dipshits but I guess I’d rather them call nothing questionable at all rather than make a bunch of bullshit calls. The OSU game was a different story- the hold they called on Ewer’s long scramble literally changed the outcome of the game.

[DFW Horn 6020]

48 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

Neither. Independent organizations that schools/athletic districts contract with.

UIL, TAPPS, and SPC schools contract with TASO - Texas Association of Sports Officials for their sanctioned sports. TASO has chapters across the state serving the local schools, including Dallas, Ft. Worth, Houston, etc. TASO officials are independent contractors. If a school's head coach or AD is upset with a particular official or crew they can scratch them.

[GreenspointTexas 9353]

I started noticing at the beginning of the game that some of our ball spots were about 0.75-1 yard short… on every gain

 

so i began to watch it closert as the game went on and sure enough, there were maybe 25-30 atrocious, insane ball spots against us. More than ive ever seen. I was also watching baylors spots and it seemed they would get an extra 0.5 yard or so on every run or OOB play.

 

anyone else see that shit? Never seen anything like that

[NorthLoop 13906]

5 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I started noticing at the beginning of the game that some of our ball spots were about 0.75-1 yard short… on every gain

 

so i began to watch it closert as the game went on and sure enough, there were maybe 25-30 atrocious, insane ball spots against us. More than ive ever seen. I was also watching baylors spots and it seemed they would get an extra 0.5 yard or so on every run or OOB play.

 

anyone else see that shit? Never seen anything like that

That's been routine in all of our conference games this year

[Pato del Muerto 51914]

13 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I started noticing at the beginning of the game that some of our ball spots were about 0.75-1 yard short… on every gain

 

so i began to watch it closert as the game went on and sure enough, there were maybe 25-30 atrocious, insane ball spots against us. More than ive ever seen. I was also watching baylors spots and it seemed they would get an extra 0.5 yard or so on every run or OOB play.

 

anyone else see that shit? Never seen anything like that

Only every week. 

[blacklab 11807]

13 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I started noticing at the beginning of the game that some of our ball spots were about 0.75-1 yard short… on every gain

 

so i began to watch it closert as the game went on and sure enough, there were maybe 25-30 atrocious, insane ball spots against us. More than ive ever seen. I was also watching baylors spots and it seemed they would get an extra 0.5 yard or so on every run or OOB play.

 

anyone else see that shit? Never seen anything like that

yes, I was at the game and noticed it. Was 2+ yards on multiple occasions 

[hornian 5153]

6 minutes ago, blacklab said:

yes, I was at the game and noticed it. Was 2+ yards on multiple occasions 

Agreed. Bijan would have had 200+ if they spotted the ball correctly. Lots of 8-9 yard runs that wound up being 6 yard gains. 

[blacklab 11807]

There was one that based on where he fell I said in my head "second and 3" and the guy behind me said it out loud at the same time.

Announcer: "It's now second and 6"

[wood 10786]

2 hours ago, hookemATL said:

Can someone explain the fumble that wasn’t a fumble?  I feel like it was glossed over and it seemed like a fumble at full speed. But then they didn’t review or address the at all. I was fucking apoplectic. 

It looked like a fumble to me. Definitely wasn't a forward pass, but Baylor guy next to us said it can be directly lateral and will still be considered a pass. I always thought a lateral was a free ball. I dunno which is correct, but there's really no such thing as a true lateral, just like there's no such thing as a tie at first base in baseball. It was either a forward pass or a backward toss.

[Doc Daneeka 6768]

3 minutes ago, wood said:

It looked like a fumble to me. Definitely wasn't a forward pass, but Baylor guy next to us said it can be directly lateral and will still be considered a pass. I always thought a lateral was a free ball. I dunno which is correct, but there's really no such thing as a true lateral, just like there's no such thing as a tie at first base in baseball. It was either a forward pass or a backward toss.

Forward is a pass. Perfectly in line with ”passer” or backwards is a free ball. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Doc Daneeka

[blacklab 11807]

Initial contact

spot

[Huckleberry 32142]

7 minutes ago, wood said:

It looked like a fumble to me. Definitely wasn't a forward pass, but Baylor guy next to us said it can be directly lateral and will still be considered a pass. I always thought a lateral was a free ball. I dunno which is correct, but there's really no such thing as a true lateral, just like there's no such thing as a tie at first base in baseball. It was either a forward pass or a backward toss.

Yeah, Baylor guy was wrong. Essentially, by rule a pass is either forward or not. 

[Dennis Taylor 18544]

7 hours ago, Zeus said:

Grabbing and spinning Ford all the way around right in front of the ball and ref lol 

In the rig 12 against Texas you can

I saw that in person, had a perfect view of it and was going apeshit. He was literally in the hole in perfect position to make the play and the OL grabbed his shoulders and spun him 180...no call. 

[blacklab 11807]

Knee down

spot

 

 

[wood 10786]

30 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Forward is a pass. Perfectly in line with ”passer” or backwards is a free ball. 

Yeah that's what I was thinking, too. I've never heard it any other way until this guy said that.

[Nivek 16643]

1 hour ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

I don’t think this crew was particularly biased today, I think they’re just REALLY incompetent. I didn’t disagree with any calls they made against us- most were false starts. At least they didn’t call back any big plays due to holding. They were more just dipshits but I guess I’d rather them call nothing questionable at all rather than make a bunch of bullshit calls. The OSU game was a different story- the hold they called on Ewer’s long scramble literally changed the outcome of the game.

They are clearly biased.   

[Biff Tannen 44917]

We really should all just accept that any conference game going forward is going to be us vs the other team AND the refs.  It's quite plain.

[Pato del Muerto 51914]

35 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Initial contact

spot

Same with the third down here. Since the initial first down spot was from a touchback, they knew that the 35 was the line to gain and the ball just happened to get spotted with the tip over the 35. 
 

sorry, the previous play to this one. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Pato del Muerto

[GreenspointTexas 9353]

35 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Initial contact

spot

Ho lee fuck

[MIkeHoncho 1872]

On the "lateral" the one that always comes to mind for me on that one is the Titans vs Bills championship game.  All the discussion was that the throw back was not forward, but exactly on-line with the thrower, therefore a throw that is perfectly "even" is a lateral.    Biggest issue is that the play doesn't appear to have been reviewed even though the official said it was.  

[Pig Bellmont 8637]

1 hour ago, Rickylovesweed said:

Somebody should figure out how many holding penalties were committed by teams Texas played in the Big 12. It has to be a very small number. 

 

Didn’t we do this last week? I think its 2. One vs Kansas and one vs Tech, right?

[Rickylovesweed 14076]

1 minute ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Didn’t we do this last week? I think its 2. One vs Kansas and one vs Tech, right?

I don't pay attention to this thread but that would be about what I expected. 

2 offensive holding calls in 9 full games is insane. 

[TrashMaster G 17263]

1 hour ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

I don’t think this crew was particularly biased today, I think they’re just REALLY incompetent. I didn’t disagree with any calls they made against us- most were false starts. At least they didn’t call back any big plays due to holding. They were more just dipshits but I guess I’d rather them call nothing questionable at all rather than make a bunch of bullshit calls. The OSU game was a different story- the hold they called on Ewer’s long scramble literally changed the outcome of the game.

What game were you watching?

[Dahobbs 17088]

 

Ball was "thrown" from the 28. It hit the running back's rear end, who was standing behind the 28 when the ball was thrown, about a quarter of a second later.  Pretty sure it was a lateral/backwards pass, although it may have been ever so slightly forward. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Dahobbs

[texastroubadour 1203]

1 hour ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I started noticing at the beginning of the game that some of our ball spots were about 0.75-1 yard short… on every gain

 

so i began to watch it closert as the game went on and sure enough, there were maybe 25-30 atrocious, insane ball spots against us. More than ive ever seen. I was also watching baylors spots and it seemed they would get an extra 0.5 yard or so on every run or OOB play.

 

anyone else see that shit? Never seen anything like that

All season long

[Dewey 3266]

3 minutes ago, Rickylovesweed said:

I don't pay attention to this thread but that would be about what I expected. 

2 offensive holding calls in 9 full games is insane. 

I don't know if that's the actual number, but I bet it's still pretty low. Especially when you consider this, if you talk to any guy who has reffed at a high level, they will tell you they can call holding on every play if they wanted to. 

The big xii has been bad for years, no doubt a small part for us leaving, but this season, after it was known that we are leaving, it's insanely bad. Fuck em

[Deej 76080]

Compile a tape of all the bullshit and send it to the Big12 with a note that says, "Fuck your buyout."

[Shut up Lou Holtz 1976]

33 minutes ago, Deej said:

Compile a tape of all the bullshit and send it to the Big12 with a note that says, "Fuck your buyout."

I support this. Do we still have money in the wreath fund?

[Cairn Horn88 8034]

3 hours ago, Alphie Solomons. said:

It shouldn't be up to Sark to jump on the grenade and get penalized during the game.    Del Conte has enough leverage in that Big 12 Office to make this embarrassing to the Big 12 and he's not and that's bullshit

If Del Conte was to go to the Big 12 Office to complain about the officiating…..they’d just give him the Horn’s Down…then the middle finger.

[TrashMaster G 17263]

3 minutes ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

If Del Conte was to go to the Big 12 Office to complain about the officiating…..they’d just give him the Horn’s Down…then the middle finger.

Horn's?

[Cairn Horn88 8034]

3 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

Horn's?

[TexasGolf 4807]

3 hours ago, Alphie Solomons. said:

 

Puffy Ref.

. 

[PvilleStang 2805]

 

 

Last night, around 8:12 in the clip above, during Miss / Miss State, same scenario, except it was called a backwards pass, and ruled a turnover after the fact.  They said repeatedly on the broadcast, a sideways pass is ruled a backwards pass, end of story.  Was beyond pissed when there was not even an attempt at the review during our game!

[Nueces River Rat 5485]

15 hours ago, Dewey said:

Ill bet money that if KU finds a way, we'll see this crew again. If Shark would have gone off on them like Dykes or Campbell, he would have been flagged, they were waiting for it. 

This is a big part why we keep on getting screwed by certain Ref crews like this one against Baylor/Okie State and the ones who called our games against UTSA and Bama.    We haven’t had a coach since Mack who would ride the Refs all game long when the first instances of idiocy was revealed from a particular ref crew.  Mack and Dykes are old school with this and some of the newer generation of coaches have picked it up like Campbell.   While others like Sark and our prior two are not and they had plenty of opportunities to get on board. 
 

Recall against TCU a few weeks ago early in the game TCU was on the receiving end of more penalties than we were and their was one call that set off Dykes and he was in the Refs ears  the rest of the half and while walking off the field at halftime?   Those flags stayed in the Refs pockets in the second half for the most part.     It works and coaches who do this get respect from their fan bases and to some extent from others especially if it’s known the conference officiating is a clusterfauck and they are not just being crybabies.  

[statsman 5352]

OK, math nerds (Huck, help?)

Statistical tests are used and accepted in US courts to establish (not “prove”) evidence of discrimination, with said evidence (if the test confidence is high enough) enough to drive judgments. 
 
What would the right test be here?

The “null hypothesis” is “Texas (and OU?) are officiated the same as all other Big XII teams”? Accept or reject and with what confidence?

I’m thinking- take all Big XII league games and count holding penalties, and average them per game, and get std deviation. Then, take the (n=9, or 8 if the RRS is excluded) holding calls on Texas in league games, and use the t-test for small sample sizes. You could do the same with holding calls on opponents and test both. (Actually, opponent calls might be better, because it removes the counter argument that Texas just holds more- even though we have seen the quality of “holds” called on Texas on the OSU scramble by Ewers and the canceled TD against KU)
 
Does that sound like the right approach?

Edited November 26, 2022 by statsman

[Doc Daneeka 6768]

1 minute ago, Nueces River Rat said:

This is a big part why we keep on getting screwed by certain Ref crews like this one against Baylor/Okie State and the ones who called our games against UTSA and Bama.    We haven’t had a coach since Mack who would ride the Refs all game long when the first instances of idiocy was revealed from a particular ref crew.  Mack and Dykes are old school with this and some of the newer generation of coaches have picked it up like Campbell.   While others like Sark and our prior two are not and they had plenty of opportunities to get on board. 
 

Recall against TCU a few weeks ago early in the game TCU was on the receiving end of more penalties than we were and their was one call that set off Dykes and he was in the Refs ears  the rest of the half and while walking off the field at halftime?   Those flags stayed in the Refs pockets in the second half for the most part.     It works and coaches who do this get respect from their fan bases and to some extent from others especially if it’s known the conference officiating is a clusterfauck and they are not just being crybabies.  

Counterpoint: “Unsportsmanlike conduct, Texas bench.”

I think working the refs has an effect, in general. I don’t think there’s anything Sarkisian, CDC, or anyone in burnt orange can say that’s going to make the Big 12 accommodate the wishes of departing members, all the more so with a CFP spot on the line. 

[Nueces River Rat 5485]

3 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Counterpoint: “Unsportsmanlike conduct, Texas bench.”

I think working the refs has an effect, in general. I don’t think there’s anything Sarkisian, CDC, or anyone in burnt orange can say that’s going to make the Big 12 accommodate the wishes of departing members, all the more so with a CFP spot on the line. 

Yep….  But that Okie State game was so obvious what was going on even aggy and OUSux fans on message boards and their friendly media were universally condemning what was going on.  Still burns me to this day we didn’t go ape post game  and our AD at the time didn’t press the issue in public.  Since then we get Ref crews like this one who chose to screw us either in obvious in your face ways such as a disparity in penalties called like this years Okie State game.    Or just plain ignore everything for the most part to have the same effect like yesterdays Baylor game.  

[Doc Daneeka 6768]

9 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Yep….  But that Okie State game was so obvious what was going on even aggy and OUSux fans on message boards and their friendly media were universally condemning what was going on.  Still burns me to this day we didn’t go ape post game  and our AD at the time didn’t press the issue in public.  Since then we get Ref crews like this one who chose to screw us either in obvious in your face ways such as a disparity in penalties called like this years Okie State game.    Or just plain ignore everything for the most part to have the same effect like yesterdays Baylor game.  

I get it. What’s Texas’ leverage, though? 
 

There’s a fine line between arguing that your guys deserve to play in a fairly officiated game and coming off as whiners. If it’s going to be done, it almost has to be done after a game you win or a game so egregiously bad — 2015 Oklahoma State — that even the people on the take blush. 
 

Again, though, why should the Big 12 care much, especially the way things are in motion now?

[NTVTXN 1429]

13 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I started noticing at the beginning of the game that some of our ball spots were about 0.75-1 yard short… on every gain

 

so i began to watch it closert as the game went on and sure enough, there were maybe 25-30 atrocious, insane ball spots against us. More than ive ever seen. I was also watching baylors spots and it seemed they would get an extra 0.5 yard or so on every run or OOB play.

 

anyone else see that shit? Never seen anything like that

Out tix are in section 27. I noticed it all game long.

Also, if you’re a Season Tix holder in Section 27 (or ANYWHERE in DKR); stop selling your tickets to opposing fans. Please & Thank you.🙏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🙌🏻🤘🏻

[Nueces River Rat 5485]

10 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I get it. What’s Texas’ leverage, though? 
 

There’s a fine line between arguing that your guys deserve to play in a fairly officiated game and coming off as whiners. If it’s going to be done, it almost has to be done after a game you win or a game so egregiously bad — 2015 Oklahoma State — that even the people on the take blush. 
 

Again, though, why should the Big 12 care much, especially the way things are in motion now?

I agree.   It’s too late now as far as the leverage thing other than another reason to bolt early instead of waiting until 2025.  

[Eskimohorn 5544]

If Del Conte was to go to the Big 12 Office to complain about the officiating…..they’d just give him the Horn’s Down…then the middle finger.

What is DC gonna do? Strenuously object? We aint gonna do shit and will take it. There will be no lawsuit.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6489]

Y’all think yesterday was bad?  If and it’s a big if, K State loses today and we end up in the championship game against TCU you will see a disparity of 20 fouls on UT to 0 on TCU.  I kid, kind of, but I guarantee the refs will do everything in their power to make sure TCU gets to the playoffs.   Too much money and conference prestige at stake.  Big 12 needs to show the world they don’t need UT or OU as they have TCU in the playoffs.