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ERCOT, PUC, and deregulation got us here


cactusflinthead

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28 minutes ago, elfenix said:

between compressed air batteries, iron-air batteries, flow batteries, and various forms of gravity battery, it really seems like we're on the precipice of a grid-scale battery revolution. 

Preusming all the angry chuds of MAGAland don't take their freedom blasters to the public infra that represents their hate for progress, yes

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37 minutes ago, elfenix said:

there's two statements in my post to which this could conceivably apply.  i'd elaborate if i knew to which you are referring. 

 

between compressed air batteries, iron-air batteries, flow batteries, and various forms of gravity battery, it really seems like we're on the precipice of a grid-scale battery revolution. 

This part:

 

and gas plants have an ongoing operation cost that is higher than wind or solar so the economic incentive to store energy isn't quite

 

As for the rest…cool. Snap your fingers, have next level better tech ready for massive commercial usage tomorrow. Now add 20 years before a government or society accepts its real and adopts it, making it a thing that might push out oil and gas lobbying who will fight tooth and nail to keep their profits. I’m not being a dick, I’m just telling you how it will go. If it were available tomorrow. 

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ok, so, by that, it's that they have to pay for gas.  whereas solar doesn't have to pay for sun and wind doesn't have to pay for wind.  pretty much all the costs on those two types are fixed costs (yes, i'm lumping maintenance into fixed costs), so the variable cost is pretty much 0.  so the price spread between overnight wind when it's driven MWh prices to 0 (or less!) and the $9,000 capped mid afternoon august price is as great as it can get.  i don't know what a gas plant's overnight running cost is, but i know it's not 0.  so, again, the economic incentive isn't quite as high. 

and despite O&G's presence in this state we're by far the largest wind producer in the country.  much of that is due to farmers across the state being used to a surface acre here or there being given over to energy operations and knowing that's making them money.  tell them they'll make *more* money hosting a gravity battery tower for the wind farm that they're already making money on and they'll call up their local congresscritters to make sure that can happen. 

Edited by elfenix
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2 hours ago, YChang said:

My comment was more a riff on others saying you're ok with it and making me think of the lyrics. However, you keep using that comment like that somehow that it makes our collective situation ok. I find that strange. I mean, why not be part help with change instead of being for the status quo? Maybe you are, that is my assumption of course. 

In his mind everything is ok because everyone can still go out and buy guns guns guns.

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4 hours ago, elfenix said:

ok, so, by that, it's that they have to pay for gas.  whereas solar doesn't have to pay for sun and wind doesn't have to pay for wind.  pretty much all the costs on those two types are fixed costs (yes, i'm lumping maintenance into fixed costs), so the variable cost is pretty much 0.  so the price spread between overnight wind when it's driven MWh prices to 0 (or less!) and the $9,000 capped mid afternoon august price is as great as it can get.  i don't know what a gas plant's overnight running cost is, but i know it's not 0.  so, again, the economic incentive isn't quite as high. 

and despite O&G's presence in this state we're by far the largest wind producer in the country.  much of that is due to farmers across the state being used to a surface acre here or there being given over to energy operations and knowing that's making them money.  tell them they'll make *more* money hosting a gravity battery tower for the wind farm that they're already making money on and they'll call up their local congresscritters to make sure that can happen. 

Oh you sweet, summer child. 
 

Those ranchers/farmers vote republican.

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5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Oh you sweet, summer child. 
 

Those ranchers/farmers vote republican.

which means they have pull in this state, unlike the rest of us whose only pull is our own tallywhackers

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37 minutes ago, elfenix said:

which means they have pull in this state, unlike the rest of us whose only pull is our own tallywhackers

Yuuuuuuuuuup. 
 

And we all know they’ll vote against their own  interests. 

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they'll vote against their economic interest in favor of their (perceived) social interest.  they believe they come out ahead, even if they're shorter on dollars.  and they don't even know they're shorter on dollars because (democrats are actually responsible with the economy and republicans aren't) is attenuated. 

this is not that situation.  this is straight cash homie.  it's a direct economic benefit.  and on direct things they're very self-interested.  the reason we don't have a massive voucher program in this state is because farmers out west know they'd get fucked on schooling.  they're not on ERCOT because they know they'd get fucked.  we have wind because, again, farmers out west are getting paid.  wind farm operator approaches farmer bob and says 'we build this crane thing and you get bigger royalty checks' and farmer bob is in. 

some of the O&G places might come on board as it may be possible to use old wells for gravity batteries:

https://jonnymaserati.github.io/2021/04/01/gravity-battery-well.html

 

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8 hours ago, elfenix said:

there's two statements in my post to which this could conceivably apply.  i'd elaborate if i knew to which you are referring. 

 

between compressed air batteries, iron-air batteries, flow batteries, and various forms of gravity battery, it really seems like we're on the precipice of a grid-scale battery revolution. 

We ain't on the precipice of shit.

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