Afghan War ending, foretold by The Onion 10 years Ago [DT thread ruined by politics]

[Ojo Rojo 1866]

This was always the way it was going to end; a foregone conclusion.  No one should be surprised or angered over the withdrawal.  People wanted us out of there.  The same people are now bitching because we're out.  Like there was an alternative.  I am a bit surprised that the administration didn't do a better job of damage control and getting the message out that this is going to happen and it's expected. Did they not know?  Is our government/military/intelligence really that inept?

Anyway, this is what happens when you let politics dictate policy.  It was politically advantageous to do big shit in Afghanistan, and Iraq for that matter, in 2001.  It wasn't smart.  That's the way it is here.

['stache 21729]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Let them take the political shots all day long. They are only preaching to their base. No one's vote is going to change because Joe Biden led a haphazard exit from Afghanistan.

What's sad is that there is probably some legitimate criticisms about the way this played out (although I think there was no possibility of a peaceful or any form of non-chaotic exit strategy), but they've cried wolf so many times over illigitimate shit like birth certificates, tan suits, misuse of the term "socialism," "communism," and "facism," etc., etc., that nothing they can say has any meaning. They don't give a single shit about Afghanis, just something to criticize "the left" about. And even if some of them have legitimate care or concerns, you lost your credibility over the last several years. Fuck off and keep poisoning your base. The tide is going to shift soon when the fox news crowd starts dying off in droves from old age.

[Brisketexan 104226]

2 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/14/pentagon-biden-team-overrode-afghanistan-481556

I heard at least 3 congressmen (both parties)on TV last night who are in on the intelligence briefings/inner circle say the same thing.  If it's not 100% guaranteed, it's certainly all around political circles that he did.

Of course this will all have to be sorted out with time - rumors and bullshit are flying all over right now, but Politico isn't some hack rag.  It certainly seems now like he both got shitty advice and ignored the good advice he didn't like.

The entire article is about THIS disagreement: do we get all forces out, or do we leave several thousand behind to conduct anti-terrorism activities?  And the admin said "withdraw all forces."  Which is what both this admin and the past admin had already decided to do.  And that isn't even the question being discussed on this thread.  It sure seemed like most everyone here gets that withdrawal means withdrawal.

I'm not seeing a source on the detailed decisionmaking as to treatment of military equipment or friendlies.

[BabaYaga 15190]

1 minute ago, Parliament said:

I never served, so I'm very uninformed on this.  Are you saying the military leader on the ground at base didn't have the authority/ability to destroy this stuff?  I'm totally not disagreeing with you.  Just trying to learn.

Some stuff they can.  But you prematurely destroy a multi-million dollar drone, it can be your ass...especially for a low level logistical soldier.  Many items were destroyed.  Many more are very hard to destroy (MRAPs for example) as they are designed to shrug off damage.  In the end, it's the chaos.  The "fog of war" that is just a euphemism for chaos and uncertainty brought forth by having to operate under very, very intense timelines.  People make mistakes.  Things overlooked.  There are clear chains of communication for how material is handled.  In peacetime, a single missing rifle magazine can get your ass in trouble.   

[Brothahorn 10083]

If/when China goes in to exploit the REM, I'll be curious to see how they handle Afghan hospitality.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

7 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The "Muslim World" doesn't have citizenship anymore than the Christian world. As far as the MidEast looking at each other communally, prior to 911 the Taliban was a pariah throughout the world, including with Muslim countries.  Everybody hated them.  Iran hated them for executing a couple of their diplomats.  It's one of the reasons that nobody made a squeak when started bombing them. Bush's big concern was where he could fly search and rescue missions out of, should any of the planes get shot down.  To everybody's surprise, Uzbekistan said sure, you can fly S&R from our airfields. Everybody hated the Taliban-led Afghanistan.  

That doesn't mean a lot of the Muslim countries where thrilled with the US colonizing the country.  (And, yeah, when you start talking about "nation building" in a way that aligns with American values and is friendly to western business...and has semi-permanent military installations, it's going to be seen as colonizing.) I'm sure there was some investment and plenty of charity from Muslim countries and individuals, but I am also sure there were folks who didn't really want to see the US be successful. 

As we are withdrawing, there are calls for Muslim-led peacekeeping forces.  I have no idea if that will go anywhere.  It's not like Pashtuns are going to be anymore thrilled with an Arab soldier policing his street, than he was with an American one.  Sharing a common religion only takes you so far, and they undoubtedly have major differences in how they interpret and practice Islam.  I remember reading about one of the Uzbek military leaders -Dostum -who was a vodka drinking nutcase. (Just looked up Dostum to confirm the name.  Apparently he was the vice president until recently.  The dude is a character.  Sure, probably a war criminal, but still an interesting guy to drink with.) 

Thanks for the solid response. I guess I keep going back to thinking about the idea that a Muslim-led investment (and protection of investments) would have not only been financially smart for Muslim countries of means (Oil rich, Arabs), but selfishly it would have been better for Americans geopolitically (re: keeping China and Russia from raping Afghanistan for minerals and lithiums to sell to demand hungry companies).

[InkaUtexas 25289]

They will bribe them like they have been doing. China was already extracting minerals. We would guard one side of the mountain, they would mine the other. 

It gets interesting if they decide to go outside Afghan borders with Jihad and see China as a target. 

 

[Underdog 28391]

Goalpost designs/placement in CFB stadiums. 

[C-Man 26930]

1 hour ago, thrillhammer said:

i shouldnt be surprised at the uproar over this but i am.  this was inevitable from the get go.  this was always going to happen.  the afghan people need to decide what kind of people they want to follow and consider leaders.  we cant make them choose.  we propped them at a great expense of dollars and american lives.  it's their battle now.  

An old friend from HS does foreign "work" for the government. I've never quite figured out what that is but he's lived abroad since he got out of college. He's attached to embassies and what-not. He said the following regarding Afghanistan:

"I'm sick of this being characterized as abandonment. TWENTY YEARS invested, 2000 U.S. lives lost, $2 trillion wasted. Afghanistan was given the opportunity to develop, but refused to abandon corruption and internecine fighting. Enough is enough."

 

58 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Tell me you never studied International Relations or Middle Eastern history without telling me you never studies International Relations or Middle Eastern history 

[The Ace of Aces 5102]

41 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

That’s not accurate.

 

This is from late May or early June, prior to Taliban retaking control. 

[phdhorn 6224]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm not seeing a source on the detailed decisionmaking as to treatment of military equipment or friendlies.

When you are commander-in-chief, and especially when the conditions of your withdrawal (even set up by a previous admin) were violated by the opposing party, all bets are off.  Since that "treaty" was rendered moot, the new CIC can scrap it or re-negotiate.  We weren't "bound" by anything.  And in that article, just like on TV, the narrative was that the window of how quickly the Taliban could take over went from 6 months to 3 months to weeks (days was the real answer). 

It's clear that Biden was going to do this come hell or high water to line up with his personally favorable symbolic date of 9/11, and he horribly miscalculated and made one of the worst presidential decisions I've ever witnessed in my six decades vertically on this planet.  No one else was responsible for this last 1-2 weeks.  Except for him.

The thing is he doesn't give a shit about any of this.  He's focused on the "time to get out" and has no regard whatsoever for the suffering he caused.  He glossed over it in is "buck stops here but let me blame everyone else anyway) speech.  He thinks he's "saved" us from future involvement over there.

Well, he might be right.  Or AQ will now ramp up to levels not seen in 20 years and we'll be fighting dozens of fortified terrorist attacks, including some over here, within a few years.  My money's on the latter.  I hope that never happens, of course, and I hope this goes away.  But I doubt it.

[Nueces River Rat 5521]

1 minute ago, Parliament said:

I never served, so I'm very uninformed on this.  Are you saying the military leader on the ground at base didn't have the authority/ability to destroy this stuff?  I'm totally not disagreeing with you.  Just trying to learn.

Either the troops were literally told with very  short notice they were leaving or it was done intentionally.   It was no secret were were leaving and the stuff could have been taken out of country as the ratio of troop and equipment needs decreased.    Having said that I don't know how much harm leaving Humvees really does at the end of the day and stuff like that could have been left in order to focus on the stuff that really poses harm.

Having a huge bonfire or lining all that stuff in the desert and allowing some of our pilots to use at a target practice might have been a better idea.  

 

['stache 21729]

9 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Thanks for the solid response. I guess I keep going back to thinking about the idea that a Muslim-led investment (and protection of investments) would have not only been financially smart for Muslim countries of means (Oil rich, Arabs), but selfishly it would have been better for Americans geopolitically (re: keeping China and Russia from raping Afghanistan for minerals and lithiums to sell to demand hungry companies).

If you're truly interested, read a little about how the Middle East was partitioned after WW1. The borders they drew did not really account for differences in sects of Islam, historical ethnic groupings, etc. It was essentially meant to be chaotic with little chance of cooperation within countries, much less between them. Add in the known oil reserves, and there is a pretty well-supported theory that it was intentionally meant to be chaotic to prevent precisely what you are proposing, cooperation resulting in real economic power. If they are always fighting themselves they'll always be vulnerable to outside economic pressure. There's plenty of material out there on the topic, and I'm no expert myself, I learned most of this when I became interested in WW1 in general and its aftermath.

Edited August 17, 2021 by 'stache

[phdhorn 6224]

... and when you have none other than your buddies over at the WaPo slamming you, you know you fucked up (well most of us would, anyway).  From an editorial today:

We had hoped that Mr. Biden would accept some responsibility and explain how he would fix this mess. He did none of that, making it clear that he himself is the main architect of this needless American surrender. It does not bode well for the rest of his Presidency.

The world has seen a President portraying surrender as an act of political courage, and retreat as strategic wisdom. As we write this, the world’s rogues are looking for ways to give him a chance to deliver a similar speech about other parts of the world.

[Parliament 14086]

11 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Some stuff they can.  But you prematurely destroy a multi-million dollar drone, it can be your ass...especially for a low level logistical soldier.  Many items were destroyed.  Many more are very hard to destroy (MRAPs for example) as they are designed to shrug off damage.  In the end, it's the chaos.  The "fog of war" that is just a euphemism for chaos and uncertainty brought forth by having to operate under very, very intense timelines.  People make mistakes.  Things overlooked.  There are clear chains of communication for how material is handled.  In peacetime, a single missing rifle magazine can get your ass in trouble.   

I understand, thank you.  And good point about getting in trouble for destroying stuff.

[BabaYaga 15190]

1 minute ago, phdhorn said:

When you are commander-in-chief, and especially when the conditions of your withdrawal (even set up by a previous admin) were violated by the opposing party, all bets are off.  Since that "treaty" was rendered moot, the new CIC can scrap it or re-negotiate.  We weren't "bound" by anything.  And in that article, just like on TV, the narrative was that the window of how quickly the Taliban could take over went from 6 months to 3 months to weeks (days was the real answer). 

It's clear that Biden was going to do this come hell or high water to line up with his personally favorable symbolic date of 9/11, and he horribly miscalculated and made one of the worst presidential decisions I've ever witnessed in my six decades vertically on this planet.  No one else was responsible for this last 1-2 weeks.  Except for him.

The thing is he doesn't give a shit about any of this.  He's focused on the "time to get out" and has no regard whatsoever for the suffering he caused.  He glossed over it in is "buck stops here but let me blame everyone else anyway) speech.  He thinks he's "saved" us from future involvement over there.

Well, he might be right.  Or AQ will now ramp up to levels not seen in 20 years and we'll be fighting dozens of fortified terrorist attacks, including some over here, within a few years.  My money's on the latter.  I hope that never happens, of course, and I hope this goes away.  But I doubt it.

100%, spot on.

The previous administration orchestrated a CONDITIONS BASED withdrawal.  A timeline that could and would shift based upon the landscape.  When the new administration took over they did not embrace ANY of these conditions-testing parameters and simply and naively just drew a line in the sand.  He had 8 months to prepare for this and did nothing.  I already posted, but he tore up virtually every other previous order except this one?  But the talking points are that he "inherited" and was "bound" to this?  lol, no.  

 

[ChickenSandwich 9795]

1 hour ago, B00M said:

What has the admin been prioritizing? 
 

00M 
Serious question. Casually following the news it just seems like the $3.5T+ infrastructure package dominated all else

Crazy to think in 20 years we spent “only” $2T 

[WhatTheBuck 28696]

17 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

 I believe this was before the take over of Kabul. 

A distinction without a difference. I can’t find the video I saw on tv, posted by the Taliban, that shows 13 men and a boy executed with their hands tied behind their backs. I’m pretty sure that was from prior to the fall of Kabul too. Not sure why you think that matters.

We’re talking about the Taliban. We know how they operate. Try searching about Taliban executions and there are too many results to sort through.

There is this:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/taliban-may-be-executing-surrendering-afghan-troops-us-embassy-says/

[956 Worldwide 34241]

1 hour ago, Travo said:

“The only known execution since the capital’s Sunday takeover was of Abu Omar Khorasani, the former head of Islamic State in South Asia, who was taken by the Taliban from an Afghan government prison and killed on the spot, according to officials. A photo of his body was later posted on social media.”

Anyone know why the Taliban executed this terrorist?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ISIS and the Taliban hate each other and ISIS is an ideological competitor.

[WhatTheBuck 28696]

16 minutes ago, The Ace of Aces said:

This is from late May or early June, prior to Taliban retaking control. 

So what? Now that they’ve taken Kabul they’re humanitarians?

Also, it was from last month.

Edited August 17, 2021 by WhatTheBuck

[Bateshorn 9853]

38 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

You read this sentence, "Why hasn't Iran helped Afghanistan through incentivized alignment and partnership (aka financial profit and political strength) to get out of the stone ages and build a wealthy national state on the backs of natural resources the rest of the world needs? They've shown you can do this and still be a theocratic Muslim monarchy." , and interpreted it in the way you just characterized it?

And you think the one trolling in this interaction is me? 

You are the one who knocks, Waltcat09.

Presumably because Iran is Shia and the Taliban is extreme Sunni.

[BabaYaga 15190]

5 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Crazy to think in 20 years we spent “only” $2T 

Betting the budget line items were 90% bombs and jet/copter fuel

[InkaUtexas 25289]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

A distinction without a difference. I can’t find the video I saw on tv, posted by the Taliban, that shows 13 men and a boy executed with their hands tied behind their backs. I’m pretty sure that was from prior to the fall of Kabul too. Not sure why you think that matters.

We’re talking about the Taliban. We know how they operate. Try searching about Taliban executions and there are too many results to sort through.

There is this:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/taliban-may-be-executing-surrendering-afghan-troops-us-embassy-says/

Oh my man, I fully expect massive retribution killings. They killed the Mullah that worked with the UK troops in Helmand just for that. We used to meet all the time and he knew he was a dead man walking. Already have seen some videos from friends in country I won't post. It has started, and will only get worse. It will not happen in a large scale until our evacuation is done. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Betting the budget line items were 90% bombs and jet/copter fuel

Just under $2 trillion.  Quite a bargain.

[DDD Dad 14144]

39 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

You seriously need a source that Biden went against the suggestions of even his most senior advisors on handling the extrication of Afghanistan?  Even CNN has articles on this.  

Edit: thx phdhorn

Edited August 17, 2021 by DDD Dad

[Parliament 14086]

I popped over to the CR just to remind myself why I don't go there.  The Afghanistan thread is surprisingly calm.  What's this world coming to?

[956 Worldwide 34241]

35 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

This was always the way it was going to end; a foregone conclusion.  No one should be surprised or angered over the withdrawal.  People wanted us out of there.  The same people are now bitching because we're out.  Like there was an alternative.  I am a bit surprised that the administration didn't do a better job of damage control and getting the message out that this is going to happen and it's expected. Did they not know?  Is our government/military/intelligence really that inept?

Anyway, this is what happens when you let politics dictate policy.  It was politically advantageous to do big shit in Afghanistan, and Iraq for that matter, in 2001.  It wasn't smart.  That's the way it is here.

Well, and let’s also be real: very few people in the U.S. gave a shit about what their government was doing as it ineffectively ruled a Central Asian satrapy like a poor imitation of the British East India Company. America wanted low casualties for soldiers, none for civilians, and for Afghanistan to not be on their TVs.  Accountability was not part of the equation. We did not keep a policy in place for more than 18 months. Our civilian and military administrators got in, got out, and spent money  because that’s what we asked them to do— never becoming real experts and certainly not challenging the confusing and contradictory edicts that got pushed from Washington.

Did anyone here cast a vote based on Afghanistan? Did we demand coherence in presidential, Congressional races? No. Nobody gave a shit about Afghanistan outside of the foreign policy blob, and let’s be real— we liked it that way. 

We didn’t try to win and but we’re angry that we lost and didn’t notice that we were going to.  This is the dead end of half-hearted, reluctant imperialism. 

[Nivek 16771]

No they don’t. See the video I posted above of what happened to commandos who fought back. Drop your gun, take some cash and go home and you live. Fight back and you get executed even after you surrender. 

I wasn’t just asking about the afghan security. I am taking about those people who want to flee for fear of reprisals but cannot.

And do you trust the Taliban to keep their word?

[Brothahorn 10083]

ISIS and the Taliban hate each other and ISIS is an ideological competitor.

Kinda like Spurs and Mavs fans..

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

2 minutes ago, Parliament said:

I popped over to the CR just to remind myself why I don't go there.  The Afghanistan thread is surprisingly calm.  What's this world coming to?

meanwhile, this one is just the 'virus gonna virus' brainworms crew DEMANDING accountability from the current administration.

WHERE WERE OUR LEADERS DURING THIS TIME OF CRISIS?!?!?!?!?!

[Nivek 16771]

This was always the way it was going to end; a foregone conclusion.  No one should be surprised or angered over the withdrawal.  People wanted us out of there.  The same people are now bitching because we're out.  Like there was an alternative.  I am a bit surprised that the administration didn't do a better job of damage control and getting the message out that this is going to happen and it's expected. Did they not know?  Is our government/military/intelligence really that inept?
Anyway, this is what happens when you let politics dictate policy.  It was politically advantageous to do big shit in Afghanistan, and Iraq for that matter, in 2001.  It wasn't smart.  That's the way it is here.

Previous administration was damaging our intelligence communities as well as many institutions as it could. Maybe that contributed?

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Why did we spend over a trillion dollars in Afghanistan again?

Another pointless war.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Loch Ness Monster

[Ojo Rojo 1866]

1 minute ago, Nivek said:

Previous administration was damaging our intelligence communities as well as many institutions as it could. Maybe that contributed?

What was the excuse for the intel failures of 9/11 and WMD?  My theory is that America has lost it and just about everyone in government at every level sucks at their job.

[cactusflinthead 27588]

I ain't listening to a damn thing Sack has to say on this subject.

[Guest Lobo]

1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I saw Ford Crown Victoria circa 1995 on clip from Kabul yesterday.   Maybe its an old police cruiser from the Mt Prospect Illinois Police Dept?   

Technically, that was a Dodge with "Cop tires, cop suspension, cop motor, a 440 inch cubic plant."  But pos rep for the reference.  

 

[Born to Run 6420]

What's sad is that there is probably some legitimate criticisms about the way this played out (although I think there was no possibility of a peaceful or any form of non-chaotic exit strategy), but they've cried wolf so many times over illigitimate shit like birth certificates, tan suits, misuse of the term "socialism," "communism," and "facism," etc., etc., that nothing they can say has any meaning. They don't give a single shit about Afghanis, just something to criticize "the left" about. And even if some of them have legitimate care or concerns, you lost your credibility over the last several years. Fuck off and keep poisoning your base. The tide is going to shift soon when the fox news crowd starts dying off in droves from old age.

Fox News and its ilk get new young viewers all the time. Thinking they will just die off is erroneous and dangerous

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

1 hour ago, phdhorn said:

Great little story... pilots of one of the transports reported he couldn't get the gear up, had to land - and found taco sauce in the wheel well.
 

Every day I have to blink again to try and return to reality from the past 72 hours. 

The main gear for a C-17 have pieces that protrude through the fairing while the gear is extended making excellent hand holds. It’s not unusual to see a lot of grease on this fuselage just aft of the gear as it comes off of these and other parts of the landing gear. At best the Afghani’s holding onto these parts lost hands and fingers before plunging to their deaths. 

Hiding in any wheel well is almost always summary execution by crushing. And if you somehow contort around all that stuff you usually freeze to death or die of asphyxiation. 

Im sure you realized a lot of that. But the people who died outside of those planes did so out of incredible ignorance and fear. Pretty sure the first guy who fell off the C-17 in the video above was either on the outboard wing or somehow holding on to the #4 engine pylon. 

Its all heartbreaking. For both the needless death and avoid ability. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Bobby_Batronic

[Homercles 10205]

This place never ceases to amaze me.  Many people here are both medical experts and seasoned military strategists/logistics specialists.  Outstanding.  

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

2 minutes ago, Homercles said:

This place never ceases to amaze me.  Many people here are both medical experts and seasoned military strategists/logistics specialists.  Outstanding.  

Your not the president and yet I’d bet you’ve openly questioned the last two or three pretty regularly. 

[BabaYaga 15190]

5 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

The main gear for a C-17 have pieces that protrude through the fairing while the gear is extended making excellent hand holds. It’s not unusual to see a lot of grease on this fuselage just aft of the gear as it comes off of these and other parts of the landing gear. At best the Afghani’s holding onto these parts lost hands and fingers before plunging to their deaths. 

Hiding in any wheel well is almost always summary execution by crushing. And if you somehow contort around all that stuff you usually freeze to death or die of asphyxiation. 

Im sure you realized a lot of that. But the people who died outside of those planes did so out of incredible ignorance and fear. Pretty sure the first guy who fell off the C-17 in the video above was either on the outboard wing or somehow holding on to the #4 engine pylon. 

Its all heartbreaking. For both the needless death and avoid ability. 

Awful.  Just illustrates how desperate they are to get out of there and know what is waiting for them if they stay.  

[MillerEP 30311]

It looks like the Vice President has set up shop in Panjshir, and is claiming to be the legitimate President now that the previous President has fled. Maybe they can get some support and form a good insurgency or counterbalance to the Taliban. Maybe give the Taliban a taste of their own medicine.

Edited August 17, 2021 by MillerEP

[BabaYaga 15190]

This seems, less than optimal

Quote

Pentagon on plans to rescue Americans trapped in Kabul outside the airport behind Taliban lines: “I really have to push that over to the Department of State,” Maj. Gen. Taylor says

 

[Ojo Rojo 1866]

26 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Well, and let’s also be real: very few people in the U.S. gave a shit about what their government was doing as it ineffectively ruled a Central Asian satrapy like a poor imitation of the British East India Company. America wanted low casualties for soldiers, none for civilians, and for Afghanistan to not be on their TVs.  Accountability was not part of the equation. We did not keep a policy in place for more than 18 months. Our civilian and military administrators got in, got out, and spent money  because that’s what we asked them to do— never becoming real experts and certainly not challenging the confusing and contradictory edicts that got pushed from Washington.

Did anyone here cast a vote based on Afghanistan? Did we demand coherence in presidential, Congressional races? No. Nobody gave a shit about Afghanistan outside of the foreign policy blob, and let’s be real— we liked it that way. 

We didn’t try to win and but we’re angry that we lost and didn’t notice that we were going to.  This is the dead end of half-hearted, reluctant imperialism. 

I never asked them to get in, get out and spend money.  I'm not sure that was the prevailing sentiment among the populace, either.  I guess you are right about the casualties part.  Afghanistan hasn't been high on my "votes because" list in a long time, but it was a big issue when the war started and has been a political football at different times since. But just because something isn't a huge political issue of the day doesn't mean that we should  make stupid foreign policy decisions. I know fuck all about foreign policy or diplomacy or any of it, but I know what my goals would have been:  1) kill every motherfucker associated with Al Qaeda and 9/11, 2) prevent a situation where 9/11 could happen again. We did that for 20 years, so okay. I personally wouldn't have minded a permanent force large enough to deter the shit that is happening right now. We have troops stationed at bases all over the world as it is. As part of the strategy from the beginning, to maybe someday be able to leave altogether, I might have considered starting a few schools and sending over a bunch of Sand Aggies and John Deeres to teach them how to dry land farm something other than poppies.  But that's just me.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Ojo Rojo

[InkaUtexas 25289]

Hard for the Talibs to take Panjshir. Hell of a valley to defend. It was where the Russians were hammered. 

But not sure anyone is going to support him. He will need cash.  They have weapons and guerrilla fighters. 

[DDD Dad 14144]

6 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Your not the president and yet I’d bet you’ve openly questioned the last two or three pretty regularly. 

You're

[Brothahorn 10083]

It looks like the Vice President has set up shop in Panjshir, and is claiming to be the legitimate President now that the previous President has fled. Maybe they can get some support and form a good insurgency or counterbalance to the Taliban. Maybe give the Taliban a taste of their own medicine.

And of course we'll be right there(or behind the scenes) with money and weapons. It's the American way.

[52-80 19047]

not sure of the year of this murder/execution but i think it pre-dated invasion of kabul

 

[InkaUtexas 25289]

3 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

8 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

It looks like the Vice President has set up shop in Panjshir, and is claiming to be the legitimate President now that the previous President has fled. Maybe they can get some support and form a good insurgency or counterbalance to the Taliban. Maybe give the Taliban a taste of their own medicine.

And of course we'll be right there(or behind the scenes) with money and weapons. It's the American way.

Getting them there is going to be a bitch. We don't have the Pakistan border to use to flood them over. 

[BabaYaga 15190]

4 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

9 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

It looks like the Vice President has set up shop in Panjshir, and is claiming to be the legitimate President now that the previous President has fled. Maybe they can get some support and form a good insurgency or counterbalance to the Taliban. Maybe give the Taliban a taste of their own medicine.

And of course we'll be right there(or behind the scenes) with money and weapons. It's the American way.

The enemy of my enemy......

[InkaUtexas 25289]

From my former interpreter sitting in San Antonio. 

We lost brother!
I am country less 💔

His family is still in Helmand and he is nervous the Talibs now have all the biometric data we designed with the Afghan Police apparatus.