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Posted
4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

My bigger-picture fear -- and current conclusion -- is that we have to put empathy aside for the moment.  First, we have to fight back and defeat the monster that is hate and cruelty.  And that....requires dirtying our hands.  I sure as shit never wanted it to be this way, but here we are.

This is definitely something I"m struggling with internally. Many people I deeply love have fallen into this anti-empathy/right wing trap. And I"m deeply disappointed and angry with them. It makes me sick that people who would do anything for me (and vice versa) can be so dismissively cruel regarding others. I really believe sincerity is a dying currency, and we have to find a way to revive it. 

 

Posted

Don't assign to much goodness to me Brisket.  I was an asshole to many of you in the Israel thread.   And I do overall still feel the way I felt back then about that subject.  But I could should have approached it different or even better maybe left it alone.  I apologize for being a dick (to you and others)  even if I think my overall opinions on the matter  are the ones I still hold.  Because an emphatic Yes to the thoughtful listening and compassion that troph and Hank are discussing.

That's where politics for me just doesn't jibe currently with humanity.  It gets in the way of our compassion and  our intellect most days.  Not to turn this into a me thread but I am an atheist who is finding some good knowledge in the writings of the Vietnamese Buddhist monk Thích Nhất Hạnh.  The concept being compassionate listening.  And also of course letting go of the past and the future and only trying to live in the very present.  Boy that's hard, but boy do I want to learn to do that.  And by being that person then I focus on loving the child who is in front of me right now.  Not the child I loved and read stories to yesterday.  Not the girl who loved it when I randomly did Father daughter days and took off work.  And if the child in front of me right now identifies as something other than what I knew, then I will love that person.  At the same time, I want to protect that person as best I can from permanent harm that could be made in the heat of the moment.  I am nowhere near the teenager I was.  Thank fuck social media didn't exist back then to document my every rash moment.  And thank goodness none of my mistakes were permanent. Because again I feel the teenage years are perfect for exploring the fundamental question of "who am I?"

But Thích Nhất Hạnh was also political.  If I could learn how to engage politically while still being compassionate, it would be a brand new me.  Because I tend to just angry and depressed instead and randomly lash out. 

But this particular subject, as we've stated a lot today, shouldn't be political at all.  And it is a family issue.  Compassion is never wrong in those matters.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, troph said:

You don’t have to put aside empathy for those who are suffering to fight back, you fight back because of the empathy toward those who are suffering. 

 

Someone needs to needlepoint that onto a throw pillow.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, royiv said:

Someone needs to needlepoint that onto a throw pillow.

[obi won] troph is not the queer woman you are looking for [/obi won]

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Posted (edited)

Seems to me we've got evidence now that the solution to all of this board's problems is simply to ban Ana.

ETA: the last few years online and just generally being alive have really shown that maybe the Athenians had it right with the whole exile thing. Some people just can't live in a society.

Edited by wildcat09
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Posted
1 minute ago, South Austin said:

Completely agree, and weighing in with my own experience that provides some empathy for MC Fresh Breath.

I have a gay daughter, who came out to me the summer before 8th grade.  It was really no surprise.  I kinda suspected it, and I can't exactly explain why.  She had never seemed into boys, but at that age many girls aren't yet, and she never outwardly expressed an attraction to girls.  Still, I just had this intuition as a parent, and when she told me she was gay, it just felt right and true for her, and I never questioned it.  I even teared up because I was so happy for her and so proud that she was able to tell me (and not to brag, but she told me before her mom).

But, about 8 months or so before her coming out, I was having a conversation with my then-wife in which we both agreed that our daughter was probably gay.  It was just parental wonder, and we certainly weren't going to approach her about it.  But then she asked me, "What if she's transgender, and comes to us saying she's a boy?"  For two bleeding heart libs, at the time that seemed like a huge emotional leap for us, and neither of us had any comfort level with that possibility. We actually have a trans friend who had come out a couple years earlier in her mid 40s, but that was our only personal experience with the trans community, and we were still adjusting to that.  

So, I totally understand the parental anxiety that comes with a child seemingly changing their own identity, of losing the idea of the daughter or son that you birthed, raised, and knew for so long.  And I also appreciate troph's recognition of that, while at the same time her perspective that the years of pain felt by her and those around her can be far greater than the parents' sense of loss.

I wish there was more love and understanding to go around these days.

I think we all know we did a lot of dumb shit when we were younger. We embraced fads that we didn't really like, we tried to hang out with "cool kids" whom we didn't really like, we pretended to like the things our friends liked and pretended to dislike the things they disliked, etc. A huge part of childhood and adolescence is basically "trying on" different experiences to see what you like. And I'm sure now with the growing acceptance of trans people that some kids are "trying on" being trans (and other non-heteronormative experiences) for a little while but aren't really gender dysphoric.

It's certainly fine and right for a parent to worry that their kid is going to make a life-altering decision that they'll later regret and can't take back. But the proper way to address those concerns is with appropriate parental, medical, and therapeutic input to ensure that people who do medically transition really want to do so.  Not fake science justifying state bans on a treatment that has a tiny regret rate and that when refused leads to countless mental health problems for actually trans kids and teens, many of whom are driven to suicide. And while I certainly empathize with the parents who seriously grapple with these issues, I have zero empathy for those who treat their own children like property and think its their right to force their child to be whoever and whatever they want them to be. If those parents would be less selfish and take their own parental responsibilities more seriously, this wouldn't be a political issue at all. 

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Posted
46 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Don't assign to much goodness to me Brisket.  I was an asshole to many of you in the Israel thread.   And I do overall still feel the way I felt back then about that subject.  But I could should have approached it different or even better maybe left it alone.  I apologize for being a dick (to you and others)  even if I think my overall opinions on the matter  are the ones I still hold.  Because an emphatic Yes to the thoughtful listening and compassion that troph and Hank are discussing.

That's where politics for me just doesn't jibe currently with humanity.  It gets in the way of our compassion and  our intellect most days.  Not to turn this into a me thread but I am an atheist who is finding some good knowledge in the writings of the Vietnamese Buddhist monk Thích Nhất Hạnh.  The concept being compassionate listening.  And also of course letting go of the past and the future and only trying to live in the very present.  Boy that's hard, but boy do I want to learn to do that.  And by being that person then I focus on loving the child who is in front of me right now.  Not the child I loved and read stories to yesterday.  Not the girl who loved it when I randomly did Father daughter days and took off work.  And if the child in front of me right now identifies as something other than what I knew, then I will love that person.  At the same time, I want to protect that person as best I can from permanent harm that could be made in the heat of the moment.  I am nowhere near the teenager I was.  Thank fuck social media didn't exist back then to document my every rash moment.  And thank goodness none of my mistakes were permanent. Because again I feel the teenage years are perfect for exploring the fundamental question of "who am I?"

But Thích Nhất Hạnh was also political.  If I could learn how to engage politically while still being compassionate, it would be a brand new me.  Because I tend to just angry and depressed instead and randomly lash out. 

But this particular subject, as we've stated a lot today, shouldn't be political at all.  And it is a family issue.  Compassion is never wrong in those matters.

Are you growing?  Are you trying?  Are you failing anyway, but then trying again?  Seems like all of those get a "yes," and honestly, that's all any of us can hope for - in ourselves or others.  If we're being honest with ourselves, when we look into the mirror, we see both a good and a terrible person.  I do, at least.

Your current situation is one of those challenging curveballs that life, other people, and society tend to throw our way.  I've shared some of those with this group, some of them I've kept to myself (maybe I'll share them someday, maybe not, maybe some of them, I'm still in the midst of sorting out).  But know that everyone has to deal with one or more of those over the course of their lives.  I do think that so much of it comes back to empathy.  That doesn't need to be a namby-pamby word, or a command to enable bad/harmful/self-harmful behavior, and figuring out where that line is can be a challenge.  But making the effort to look at things through someone else's eyes pays huge dividends.  That's true whether you are trying to be helpful and kind, or whether they are your adversary you're trying to defeat.  Then the next level - at least in social and political things - is to realize that in the long run, "defeating" those you disagree with isn't a great outcome.  It may have to be done in the moment, but ultimately.....

we're all in this together, and nobody makes it out alive.  Or, as a pretty fair guitarist once said,

You see, we are here, as far as I can tell, to help each other – our brothers, our sisters, our friends, our enemies. That’s to help each other, not hurt each other.

Stevie-Ray-Vaughn-Credit-Kirk-West-Getty

You're trying.  You love your kid.  Your wife loves your kid.  You and your wife love each other.  Keep walking.  Keep learning and reasoning.  Do the best you can.  And keep doing the best you can.  Help other people along the way with what you've learned, good and bad.  Try to be better every day.  Know that most days, you won't get it right.  And try again the next day.  That's all any of us can do.  And that's all any of us should expect.

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I've shared some of those with this group, some of them I've kept to myself (maybe I'll share them someday, maybe not, maybe some of them, I'm still in the midst of sorting out).

Are you referring to you dressing up like Elmer Fudd and your wife dressing like Bugs Bunny when you have marital relations . . . . and was I not supposed to share that with the group?

Posted
16 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Are you referring to you dressing up like Elmer Fudd and your wife dressing like Bugs Bunny when you have marital relations . . . . and was I not supposed to share that with the group?

I said "challenges and curveballs," not "awesome shit I do that I would totally brag about here."  And calling her a wascally wabbit gets her all turned on, I'm not gonna question it, I'm just here to play the hits.

Posted (edited)

 

 

29 minutes ago, pacman said:

I think we can count on Crockett to be first in line to neuter Trump every chance she gets.

 

I would wife her in a NY minute.

Edited by troph
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Posted
32 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I said "challenges and curveballs," not "awesome shit I do that I would totally brag about here."  And calling her a wascally wabbit gets her all turned on, I'm not gonna question it, I'm just here to play the hits.

my ex and i used to joke about bowling shoes, she said you wanna get kinky let's go, but no bowling shoes in bed, mkay? I was like... yes ma'am... let's go!

Posted
2 hours ago, royiv said:

Someone needs to needlepoint that onto a throw pillow.

 

2 hours ago, troph said:

[obi won] troph is not the queer woman you are looking for [/obi won]

Needlepoint.png.2a5dae0763e2a099da12d2a8d9487119.png

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Posted

It'll be interesting to see how the new Pope treats the LGBTQ community. One of the (many) reasons I left Catholicism was the condescending "love the sinner, not the sin" approach that even a decent guy like Francis took. I don't consider my lifestyle a sin, thank you very much. 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Orale said:

It'll be interesting to see how the new Pope treats the LGBTQ community. One of the (many) reasons I left Catholicism was the condescending "love the sinner, not the sin" approach that even a decent guy like Francis took. I don't consider my lifestyle a sin, thank you very much. 

I think that was probably my favorite Johnny Sackism. "We have multiple gay people at our Church, and we treat them with same respect and decency as everyone else. We just happen to believe that their existence is a sin. No biggie."

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Posted
3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I think that was probably my favorite Johnny Sackism. "We have multiple gay people at our Church, and we treat them with same respect and decency as everyone else. We just happen to believe that their existence is a sin. No biggie."

I wonder if he knows that being a church deacon is gay asf

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Posted
1 hour ago, safe sex said:

Bisexual icon Mrs. Whiggins??

 I admire this icon. Every one of us has one. The more we use it, literally and figuratively, to love ourselves and each other, the stronger it gets:

Cardiology Human Heart Icon, Cartoon Style Stock Vector - Illustration ...



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