Plastic bag ban struck down

[jimmyjazz 45055]

. . . in Laredo.  Will probably affect Austin.  Yay, pollution!

SCOTX strikes down Laredo ban on plastic bags

Edited June 22, 2018 by jimmyjazz

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

This seems like a shitty ruling, but I'll bow to the Surly Law Dogs on this one.

 

[52-80 18962]

I don't really care do u

[gecko 1104]

If this ruling triggers you, well, I don't know....

[Bozo_Casanova 25501]

So much for local control. 

[Gene Parmesan 3951]

What is the state law on waste disposal that the ban conflicts with?  It doesn't trigger me, but I would probably vote for my town banning plastic bags if it were an option.  We are a family of 5 and the amount of bags we accumulate in a month is ridiculous.  We go back in forth between the reusable bags vs. plastic depending on the size of the order.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Gene Parmesan

[South Austin 51410]

I've gotten used to the ban in Austin, so much so that it irks me when I go to the grocery story when visiting my inlaws in East Texas, and I always end up waking out with about fifty plastic bags because they can never seem to fit more than two items, no matter how small, in one bag. 

[Steamboat1874 4008]

Local control only matters when it agrees with the cartel holding our state government hostage.

[Orange&White 5497]

I've gotten used to the bag ban in Austin inasmuch as I just throw away a different thickness of bag now. 

[bschoolprof 6219]

4 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

What is the state law on waste disposal that the ban conflicts with?  It doesn't trigger me, but I would probably vote for my town banning plastic bags if it were an option.  We are a family of 5 and the amount of bags we accumulate in a month is ridiculous.  We go back in forth between the reusable bags vs. plastic depending on the size of the order.

According to the court, the Texas Solid Waste Disposal Act.  “[a] local government . . . may not adopt an ordinance . . . to . . . prohibit or restrict, for solid waste management purposes, the sale or use of a container or package in a manner not authorized by state law”

10 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

So much for local control. 

meh, lefties like state or federal law superseding local laws when they disagree with the local law, just like right wingers do here.  It's putting outcomes ahead of process.  

[Orange&White 5497]

Local control vs. State typically only matters to individuals when it is in conflict with their personally held opinion.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13269]

2 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Local control only matters when it agrees with the cartel holding our state government hostage.

From my understanding the Federal vs State control are valid arguments since the Constitution addresses this question, and some believe the Feds have gone past the original intent or subsequent amendments.

However the Constitution doesn't continue the logic that local jurisdictions somehow take precedence over state, or federal.  In fact I thought it's not addressed at all therefore putting local authority completely at the mercy of the other 2.   The state can tell the locals how, what and why to act.  

[South Austin 51410]

3 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

According to the court, the Texas Solid Waste Disposal Act.  “[a] local government . . . may not adopt an ordinance . . . to . . . prohibit or restrict, for solid waste management purposes, the sale or use of a container or package in a manner not authorized by state law” 

I should probably read the opinion, but I'm not going to today.  What is the state law that makes the bag ban not authorized?  Did the lege try to preempt local control by enacting a law that prevents municipalities from banning plastic bags?

[Alien Octopus 494]

51 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

. . . in Laredo.  Will probably affect Austin.  Yay, pollution!

SCOTX strikes down Laredo ban on plastic bags

good plastic bag bans are for people who can't do science, and can't recycle

[crash_davis 23038]

it was inevitable.  state law.

i find it ironic that the conservatives who bitch about state rights vs federal laws are against city specific bag bans.  i guess it's ok to push back on the federal guvment but when cities push back on states, that's a no no.

 

re austin, i think the habit is formed.  i'll continue to bring my own bags.  sure is nice not having plastic bags littering the streets.  will be interesting to see the shitheads who start using plastic bags.  my guess is the poors and fat old white people.

[Huckleberry 32142]

32 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

meh, lefties like state or federal law superseding local laws when they disagree with the local law, just like right wingers do here.  It's putting outcomes ahead of process.  

You're missing the irony. "Lefties" are always in favor of a stronger central government. It's the "righties" that claim to be in favor of local control.

[Armybrat 40464]

57 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

So much for local control. 

The State grants the city charters.

The Federal government did not grant charters for the states, in fact the other way around via the Constitution.

But yeah, I think the Texas SC ruling sucks. Laredo & Austin had finally gotten something right that benefited both communities.

[52-80 18962]

I used to have a drawer to store those disposable bags.  Kept them to use as small trash liners, etc.  After only a few months, the damn drawer became stuffed to the gills.  And that was for a single-person household.

Those bags are not banned, but they're simply not furnished here.  It's supposed to encourage people to bring reusable bags....and guess what....I end up buying new bags on every single grocery trip and immediately trashing them at home, anyway.

[Armybrat 40464]

14 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

You're missing the irony. "Lefties" are always in favor of a stronger central government. It's the "righties" that claim to be in favor of local control.

Righties are in favor of the Constitution, but not those who abuse it by overreaching.

[The Dog 42745]

They need to ban both plastic and paper bags. Both bad for the environment. In fact, so are grocery stores. People should farm and hunt. 

[Armybrat 40464]

7 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

I used to have a drawer to store those disposable bags.  Kept them to use as small trash liners, etc.  After only a few months, the damn drawer became stuffed to the gills.  And that was for a single-person household.

Those bags are not banned, but they're simply not furnished here.  It's supposed to encourage people to bring reusable bags....and guess what....I end up buying new bags on every single grocery trip and immediately trashing them at home, anyway.

We have about a dozen reusable bags. And wash them now & then for sanitary purposes.

I like them because we can carry a lot more heavy crap in them.

[jimmyjazz 45055]

I think it's a reasonable legislation that forced personal habits to change, much like the push towards mandatory seat belt usage that began in the mid-1980's.  It takes a while but eventually it's second nature to bring bags to the grocery store.  It's hardly some sort of violation of one's personal freedoms -- bags are available at a cost, or you can wheel your unbagged groceries out to your car.  The only choice that is being removed is that of the store.  I can live with that.  Greater good and so on.

Edited June 22, 2018 by jimmyjazz

[Bozo_Casanova 25501]

3 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

The State grants the city charters.

The Federal government did not grant charters for the states, in fact the other way around via the Constitution.

But yeah, I think the Texas SC ruling sucks. Laredo & Austin had finally gotten something right that benefited both communities.

I know how the legal relationship works and agree on both points. Also Ft Stockton and other cities.

That being said, I would like to see statutes that impinge on the prerogative of homerule* cities substantially curtailed at the state level. 
Government is typically better, more responsive and more appropriate at the local level.  I suspect you and I agree on this.   It will never happen, but a fella can wish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

* cities of over 5000 that have adopted a charter that is an alternative to the local government code.

[Armybrat 40464]

I think we agree. The State has the right to overrule the city, but this decision really oversteps and is a bad one.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Armybrat

[TornACL 7652]

HEB should be forced to buy back all the $1 reusable bags I have had to buy from those shitheads, whenever they are open again.

[Pato del Muerto 51914]

11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I think it's a reasonable legislation that forced personal habits to change, much like the push towards mandatory seat belt usage that began in the mid-1980's.  It takes a while but eventually it's second nature to bring bags to the grocery store.  It's hardly some sort of violation of one's personal freedoms -- bags are available at a cost, or you can wheel your unbagged groceries out to your car.  The only choice that is being removed is that of the store.  I can live with that.  Greater good and so on.

But then how am I supposed to get

my dog walk poop bags and tiny bathroom garbage can liners?

in lieu of a ban, how about this. When I was in Czech Republic ten years ago, the grocers has plastic bags but you had to buy them. Everyone but me brought some sort of bag with them, sometimes the plastic, to avoid paying. Would that work here?  Charging $0.50 per plastic bag, with proceeds going to recycling or other cleanup efforts, might encourage people to get accustomed to bringing their own bags. 

[Celery Man 20535]

Aren’t they 25 cents? I can’t remember but $1 seems hyperbolic

[jimmyjazz 45055]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

But then how am I supposed to get

my dog walk poop bags and tiny bathroom garbage can liners?

in lieu of a ban, how about this. When I was in Czech Republic ten years ago, the grocers has plastic bags but you had to buy them. Everyone but me brought some sort of bag with them, sometimes the plastic, to avoid paying. Would that work here?  Charging $0.50 per plastic bag, with proceeds going to recycling or other cleanup efforts, might encourage people to get accustomed to bringing their own bags. 

That's essentially the current policy in Austin.  Well, with one variation -- stores can bag groceries in paper bags as they did in the past.  Plastic bags are limited to (a) raw meat and produce and (b) reusable bags which can be brought in or purchased.

[SimonBolivar 10648]

2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Righties are in favor of the Constitution, but not those who abuse it by overreaching.

Not anymore. Now they're in favor of whatever the strongman says is the proper thing. They also used to be for free markets and now they cheer on protectionist bullshit

Edited June 22, 2018 by SimonBolivar

[RDCanecutter 25767]

Would this have stopped the Rio Grande from smelling like piss?

[Bozo_Casanova 25501]

I'm skimming the ruling and although I am not an attorney and I am reading this while giving a presentation and leading discussion on a conference call I am deeply familiar with both the language of city ordances and the state law in this area.

Unless I'm missing something, the SC seems to believe that any container or package that winds up as solid waste is therefor a container or package used for a solid waste management purpose or the city ordinance has a solid waste management purpose in curtailing the container, and since a plastic bag is plainly a container, the state law preempts the city ordinance, despite the fact that the city has an interest in protecting other areas where bags wind up, such as the street and waterways.

That seems incredibly bizarre to me. Lawyers, read that and tell me I'm missing something.
 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Bozo_Casanova

[South Austin 51410]

10 minutes ago, TornACL said:

HEB should be forced to buy back all the $1 reusable bags I have had to buy from those shitheads, whenever they are open again.

Class action!

[DanRydell 799]

30 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

The Federal government did not grant charters for the states, in fact the other way around via the Constitution.

That's really only true for the 13 original states.

[LongestHorn 759]

As a lazy bastard, I have a couple of bags that are rated to hold 50 lbs each.  I make one trip from the car to the kitchen.  Remember taking more than one trip to carry in groceries?  yeah, fuck that.  Shitty plastic bags are shitty.

[TwiceHorn 30715]

1 hour ago, bschoolprof said:

According to the court, the Texas Solid Waste Disposal Act.  “[a] local government . . . may not adopt an ordinance . . . to . . . prohibit or restrict, for solid waste management purposes, the sale or use of a container or package in a manner not authorized by state law”

meh, lefties like state or federal law superseding local laws when they disagree with the local law, just like right wingers do here.  It's putting outcomes ahead of process.  

Agreed.  The legislature can fix this, either by permitting local government to make their own regs, or by banning bans entirely.  Then you have an issue of "local control."

 

http://www.txcourts.gov/media/1441865/160748.pdf

[Nice Guy Eddie 13269]

Could a city flip this concept around, and charge fees to a store if they want to use plastic bags?   Then in theory, the extra revenue helps the city manage the trash problem, like plastic bags littering the city.  And it encourages stores to eliminate or reduce their plastic bags.     

 

 

[HenryJames 64901]

38 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I like them because we can carry a lot more heavy crap in them.

This. You can load 'em up, and the grocery store doesn't give you 10 plastic bags when 1-2 reusable bags will do.

[MissingInAction 24262]

Great news for dog owners because free poop bags.

[elfenix 34000]

 

17 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

That's really only true for the 13 original states.

you're leaving one out.

[Gene Parmesan 3951]

2 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Great news for dog owners because free poop bags.

LOL at the idea of people being responsible for their dog's poop.

[South Austin 51410]

3 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Great news for dog owners because free poop bags.

Wait, why do you need bags for poop?

[elfenix 34000]

3 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Great news for dog owners because free poop bags.

grocery bags have such terrible quality control i'd never want to use one to pick up shit.  plenty have holes in the bottom.  i'll gladly pay the ~1.5 cents for a bag that i have no chance of touching fresh dog shit.

[MissingInAction 24262]

1 minute ago, Gene Parmesan said:

LOL at the idea of people being responsible for their dog's poop.

Lolwut? You must be new around here or a cloak room reject. 

I have owned dogs for many years and lamented the plastic bag ban because I used them to pick up their shit.

[MissingInAction 24262]

1 minute ago, South Austin said:

Wait, why do you need bags for poop?

It's part of a game I play with Kevin morgan.

[HRSchenker 2215]

Dallas passed a bag tax a few years ago but it was gone within 6 months because they were being sued and couldn't afford to fight it. What happens now? Is HEB going to start giving away bags for free or will they just completely do away with them?

[South Austin 51410]

Just now, MissingInAction said:

It's part of a game I play with Kevin morgan.

[Gene Parmesan 3951]

1 minute ago, MissingInAction said:

Lolwut? You must be new around here or a cloak room reject. 

I have owned dogs for many years and lamented the plastic bag ban because I used them to pick up their shit.

I'm definitely a reject of something.  It was my attempt at humor that people don't pick up their dog's poop. 

[hayden_horn 11311]

remember when you used to see plastic bags littered everywhere? you probably don't, but get ready to see it again. when i travel outside of austin and see all the plastic bags everywhere, i am thankful for the bag ban.

and let's all laugh again at texas republicans for local control. except when they are against it.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Would this have stopped the Rio Grande from smelling like piss?

Maybe we need a lifeguard to tell the people when to get out...

[1978horn 864]

40 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

in lieu of a ban, how about this. When I was in Czech Republic ten years ago, the grocers has plastic bags but you had to buy them. Everyone but me brought some sort of bag with them, sometimes the plastic, to avoid paying. Would that work here?  Charging $0.50 per plastic bag, with proceeds going to recycling or other cleanup efforts, might encourage people to get accustomed to bringing their own bags. 

HEB charges .25 a bag if you don't have your own.  They have been doing it since the bag ban started.  Don;t know if the proceeds go anywhere, but they sell them...when they are open.