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Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?


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5 minutes ago, NoName said:

funny enough IIHS gave both the FSD and Autopilot a P (Poor) rating on safety, which is the same as the Volvo Pilot Assist

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/partial-automation-safeguards

image.png.2f38c63393d8fd1d35948d76e887a469.png

to be fair, all but 3 tested systems got poor ratings. the Lexus version got an A (Acceptable), the GM and Nissan version version got an M (Marginal)

Not a great performance by Tesla for sure.  One caveat that I will toss out there is that the tested version of FSD is a year old.  Current version is MUCH better.

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3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That's a shitty and misleading name for a feature then. It should be actioned by the FTC because people are buying Tesla's thinking they can do autopilot, like the name would suggest. 

And further, you're continuing to not address that your $10,000 paid beta software is just as poor at unsupervised driving as the current "norm"

Also @Guadaloopy while we have your attention and you are replying:

Serious question as you seem to genuinely like the Tesla as a car and driving experience based on your posting history here: do you have any ethical qualms regarding being a current Tesla owner? On any level does it give you "the ick", as the kids say?

Obviously it's too late now, but if you had a choice to do it again, would you buy a different vehicle or buy a Tesla again, knowing all that you know (and have firsthand experienced as an owner)?

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3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That's a shitty and misleading name for a feature then. It should be actioned by the FTC because people are buying Tesla's thinking they can do autopilot, like the name would suggest. 

I don't know why anyone would assume that Autopilot does anything more than the accepted dictionary definition that Hank shared above.  That's exactly what Tesla's Autopilot does.

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4 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Also @Guadaloopy while we have your attention and you are replying:

Serious question as you seem to genuinely like the Tesla as a car and driving experience based on your posting history here: do you have any ethical qualms regarding being a current Tesla owner? On any level does it give you "the ick", as the kids say?

Obviously it's too late now, but if you had a choice to do it again, would you buy a different vehicle or buy a Tesla again, knowing all that you know (and have firsthand experienced as an owner)?

No ethical qualms at all.  I bought the vehicle in September of 2020 because of the technology and performance.  At the time, I also had Tesla home solar and Power Walls.  It was pretty cool having all three on the same app to manage.  The other deciding factor was the supercharging network.  No one else came close to providing the charging availability of the Tesla fleet.  It's still a huge competitive advantage for Tesla IMO.

Fast forward to now... I probably won't buy another Tesla unless the company regains some of its earlier focus on accelerating the transition to renewable energy.  The Cybertruck has been a huge misstep from concept to execution and has diluted the focus of the company.  I never bought into the cult of Elon, but I really loved the Tesla brand circa 2020.  To say the shine has come off is a huge understatement.  

My next vehicle will probably be an F150 Lightning once Ford shifts over to NACS.     

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2 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

 

 

“Distracted Driver Kills Motorcyclist” doesn’t really get the clicks does it?

Tesla’s Autopilot is not FSD.  It’s different software altogether.  But that’s beside the point.  
 

If the headline was “Ford Driver Using Cruise Control with Lane Assist Caused Fatal Crash” no one would give it a second look, because…

IMG_1489.gif.78605b5d33c993b4f68b8adf8e19801a.gif

 

Wait a second, wasn't this you?

 

 

On 4/19/2024 at 2:59 PM, Guadaloopy said:
On 4/19/2024 at 1:53 PM, F250 said:

Mercedes is selling Level 3 cars in California and Nevada. Will other traditional auto manufacturers leap frog Tesla as well, turning Tesla into the next Sega Dreamcast?

https://fortune.com/2024/04/18/mercedes-self-driving-autonomous-cars-california-nevada-level-3-drive-pilot/

 

System only works below 40 mph with another vehicle in front.  Tesla could probably go through the motions to get their system certified at this level with these restrictions, but ...

wasteoftime.gif.8118e2cefb7114138aac184de607c11e.gif

 

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44 minutes ago, C-Man said:

At what point does Tesla seriously consider jettisoning Elon as CEO?

Never. This is what the whole lawsuit about his compensation pointed out - the board is beholden to him in way more of a way than they should be. They are all in on him.

 

If this was a rational BOD, they would have ejected him when he bough twitter.

Edited by Captain Ron
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21 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

 

Wait a second, wasn't this you?

 

 

 

I don’t see where one post contradicts the other?  
 

re: first quoted post - The driver in the article  was using Autopilot not FSD.  
 

re: second quoted post - Tesla is leapfrogging Level 3 with FSD and aiming towards Level 4 certification.   
 

 

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14 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

re: second quoted post - Tesla is leapfrogging Level 3 with FSD and aiming towards Level 4 certification.  

Tesla FSD is nowhere near Level 3 and will never achieve Level 3 certification without lidar. 

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2 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

Rob Lowe Yep GIF by SoFi

But that's the problem with a lot of the discussion in this thread.  People continually conflate Tesla's Autopilot features with FSD.  Tesla's "Autopilot" feature is simply TACC + Lane-keeping.  Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot takes it a step further and adds in automatic lane changes based on traffic conditions and set speed.  There is a third level of Autopilot called "Navigate on Autopilot" which will navigate highway interchanges and take highway exits.  FSD (Supervised) - the current revised Tesla nomenclature - does all of the above plus navigation on city streets.

The vehicle in the article above was in "Autopilot" = TACC + Lane-keeping. 

Respectfully, I think the disconnect here is you're making this argument about you. I'm sure you're a wonderful and responsible beta tester for Tesla. It sounds like you have sincere appreciation for the technology. That's great. 

Most people though are morons. That includes Tesla owners. That's who we're talking about. And giving too many morons different options on how to "drive" their vehicle is dangerous, especially when a significant amount of them are Elon boot-lickers and/or Tesla investors. I'd guess there is an undeserved trust factor with some of these drivers. 

And maybe I'm clueless, but I haven't seen a person use Cruise Control since the late 80s when my dad would use it on road trips so he could open his mail. 

Edited by Hank Kingsley
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1 hour ago, Guadaloopy said:

No ethical qualms at all.  I bought the vehicle in September of 2020 because of the technology and performance.  At the time, I also had Tesla home solar and Power Walls.  It was pretty cool having all three on the same app to manage.  The other deciding factor was the supercharging network.  No one else came close to providing the charging availability of the Tesla fleet.  It's still a huge competitive advantage for Tesla IMO.

Fast forward to now... I probably won't buy another Tesla unless the company regains some of its earlier focus on accelerating the transition to renewable energy.  The Cybertruck has been a huge misstep from concept to execution and has diluted the focus of the company.  I never bought into the cult of Elon, but I really loved the Tesla brand circa 2020.  To say the shine has come off is a huge understatement.  

My next vehicle will probably be an F150 Lightning once Ford shifts over to NACS.     

Thanks for the answer. One of the more interesting results of the data I shared/referenced earlier was how Americans are still misinformed or ignorant to the benefits of EV's, even as they are now in current state versus an ideal or optimal to-be state in the future when acceleration continues. Contrasting with the owners of Teslas/EV's, which again, in a poll conducted by the University of Maryland and the Washington Post, the same share of Republicans and Democrats owned one,there is a stark difference between GOP/D:

--

image.thumb.png.61de7ac2eb173bfc650d1b59726492a0.png

Climate

Less than half think electric cars are better for the climate. Pretty damning, considering there is strong consensus that EVs have a lower carbon footprint (even when the electricity mix is pretty heavy in coal).³ Electric cars are certainly better for the climate in the United States. We are clearly not doing a good job of explaining this to the public. 

Republicans scored particularly low on this, with less than 25% agreeing. Democrats were also surprisingly low: less than two-thirds agreed that “EVs help tackle climate change”.

Clean air and environmental impact

The results were similar-ish for EVs cleaning the air, reducing pollution from transport, and being better for the environment. Around half said this was true. Again, the evidence is very clear for the first two: clean air, and reducing pollution. I wrote about the pollution benefits of electric cars in a previous article.

“Better for the environment” always seems like a fuzzy question to me. Does it need to be better for the environment on every metric? If it reduces carbon emissions and air pollution, but uses more water, is it better or worse for the environment?

Still, I expect many respondents – in addition to not believing it is better for the climate and pollution – picture the mining of critical minerals, and assume it’s worse than gasoline. 

I’ve written a lot about mineral demand, looking at the mining requirements, and human rights abuses. The amount of materials we’ll need to mine will probably go down in a low-carbon transition, even when we account for ore concentration and waste rock. But, requirements for transport on its own (without electricity) actually go up a little when we include waste rock. On this one metric, then, you might argue that EVs are not “better for the environment”. But it seems odd that this would completely outweigh the other environmental benefits they bring. Again, it’s not a very clear question.

 

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9 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

And maybe I'm clueless, but I haven't seen a person use Cruise Control since the late 80s when my dad would use it on road trips so he could open his mail. 

Every road trip I've taken in the last 20 years I've set a cruise control for 4-7 mph over the speed limit just to keep me honest when it feels like I'm going to slow.

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SIAP.  

 

Quote

AUSTIN (Austin Business Journal) — Tesla Inc.’s huge electric vehicle factory in eastern Travis County will no longer be subject to city of Austin environmental regulations after the company used a new state law to have the property removed from the city’s extraterritorial jurisdiction.

The controversial law — which some municipalities are challenging in court — took effect Sept. 1 and allows landowners on the fringes of major cities to petition for such removal, freeing them up to develop with fewer restrictions.

https://www.kxan.com/news/business/tesla-uses-new-state-law-to-sidestep-austin-regulations-at-gigafactory/

 

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https://gizmodo.com/tesla-motorcycle-crash-death-autopilot-washington-1851428850

Tesla Driver Charged With Killing Motorcyclist After Turning on Autopilot and Browsing His Phone

Your Tesla is not a "self driving car" no matter how hard you want to believe it.

A 28-year-old motorcyclist died in Washington State on Friday afternoon because a dipshit Tesla driver rear-ended him at speed. A Snohomish man, 56, was commuting in his 2022 Tesla Model S when he activated the car’s camera-based advanced driver assist system and according to his statements to police, began looking through his phone. With nobody paying attention to the car’s actions, the Tesla software ignored Jeffrey Nissen on his motorcycle and continued on at speed. The car rear-ended the two-wheeler, Nissen was flung from the bike, and his life ended pinned underneath the electric car, where he was still lodged when police arrived to the scene.

The Tesla driver, who told police he was “putting the trust in the machine to drive for him,” was inattentive to the road in front of him, and was only brought back to reality when he “heard a bang as the car lurched forward.” The driver was not impaired by drugs or alcohol, though he admitted to having an alcoholic beverage prior to the 3:54 p.m. crash.

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13 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Respectfully, I think the disconnect here is you're making this argument about you. I'm sure you're a wonderful and responsible beta tester for Tesla. It sounds like you have sincere appreciation for the technology. That's great. 

Most people though are morons. That includes Tesla owners. That's who we're talking about. And giving too many morons different options on how to "drive" their vehicle is dangerous, especially when a significant amount of them are Elon boot-lickers and/or Tesla investors. I'd guess there is an undeserved trust factor with some of these drivers. 

And maybe I'm clueless, but I haven't seen a person use Cruise Control since the late 80s when my dad would use it on road trips so he could open his mail. 

I hear you.  There are a lot of morons on the road and a lot of morons on the road in Teslas.

I get the sense that a large portion of Tesla’s early adopters bought their cars because of the technology and the perceived environmental benefits of EVs.  That group can be further broken down into technophiles and technoflexers.  The technophiles respected the technology and were genuinely interested in testing and experiencing it.  The technoflexers were more interested in creating viral videos of themselves sleeping behind the wheel while doing 80 on the freeway.  I think the technoflexers were a small, but very visible minority that saddled Tesla owners with a terrible image.

I say all of that to get around to this point - there have been a lot of FSD miles driven with very low accident rates.  Up until March of 2024,  there were only about 400K Tesla owners in the FSD beta program.  FSD beta has been in limited public release since October 2020, with more general availability since October 2022.  In 3.5 years, there have been very few accidents attributed to Teslas in FSD.   In March 2024, Tesla opened the floodgates and gave every Tesla driver a free month of FSD.  If this system was so irresponsible and inherently dangerous, we should have seen a spike of FSD-related accidents over the past month.  Maybe the data collection and reporting is lagging a bit, but we haven’t seen that spike as of yet.  
 

 

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1 hour ago, Captain Ron said:

Never. This is what the whole lawsuit about his compensation pointed out - the board is beholden to him in way more of a way than they should be. They are all in on him.

 

If this was a rational BOD, they would have ejected him when he bough twitter.

Can the shareholders not revolt and replace the board/Elon when they feel the value of their investment is at risk? Or does Elon own too much Tesla stock for that? (I'm a market moron, BTW, and did not stay in a Holiday Inn last night.)

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1 hour ago, C-Man said:

Can the shareholders not revolt and replace the board/Elon when they feel the value of their investment is at risk? Or does Elon own too much Tesla stock for that? (I'm a market moron, BTW, and did not stay in a Holiday Inn last night.)

In theory yes.

But the Board + Musk controls a lot of the shares. Combine that with so many shareholders being Elon stans it is very unlikely that you would get enough of a coalition to oust any of the Board. Even if you did, it would take a number of board seats, not just 1 or 2, to put Elon at risk.

Hell, just look at Disney, where an activist investor couldn't get on the board, even with a large number of shares in his corner.

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12 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Fascinating. So you're one of those guys on the freeway.  Every time I get on an open highway it's obvious most people aren't aware cruise control even exists, especially younger drivers.    It's infuriating dealing with all the chucklefucks who will drive a couple of miles per hour slower than you would like to, but only speed up after you pass them and then slow right back down after they get in front of you again.  I gues they can't handle being behind someone.  Anyone who pulls that shit should lose their highway driving privileges.  Pick a fucking speed and stick with it. 

Lol I’m the exact opposite type of driver you’re describing. 

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3 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

And maybe I'm clueless, but I haven't seen a person use Cruise Control since the late 80s when my dad would use it on road trips so he could open his mail. 

Whoa there ... Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) is the greatest highway driving advancement of my lifetime.

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27 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Lol I’m the exact opposite type of driver you’re describing. 

 

29 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Because I know how to control a gas pedal and maintain speed? And I like to pass slow drivers. 

That's funny, because this post makes it seem like you're exactly the type of driver I was describing.  You're not maintaining your speed, you just think you are.  And that's the problem.   But go with God and all that.  Everyone thinks they're a great driver and almost all of us are wrong.  I'm certainly doing something regularly and obliviously that is pissing someone off. 

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3 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Good to know that companies that claim they are protecting the environment are wanting to avoid policies that protect the environment.

Edited by atomheartbevo
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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

But I mean, do you, when you're already at highway speeds?  I used to drive a standard, with cruise control, and I used it on the highway plenty.

It's not difficult to keep consistent pressure on the gas pedal. Plus, adaptive cruise would kinda suck having to be aware that I need to up or downshift as the car speeds up or slows down. Id get lulled into complacency. It's already difficult enough when I'm three sheets to the wind.  (I kid)

Edited by Deej
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Just now, Deej said:

It's not difficult to keep consistent pressure on the gas pedal. 

As someone who just made a round trip from S. Texas to Austin yesterday....I suspect a lot of people think the way you do, and they're all WAY fucking wrong.  I had to deal with driver after driver whose speed varied 10-15 mph, and it was maddening.  I just wanted to set my cruise and be done with it, but nope.

Maybe the "you can easily keep consistent SPEED" when the road is flat, but when it's rolling at all, hills of any sort, "consistent pressure on the gas pedal" doesn't come close to maintaining a set speed.  Just set the cruise control, and it will make the adjustments for you as the road elevates and drops (even slight grades influence speed).

Of course, the worst was the absolute flaming asshole in the Porsche SUV who, when we got to a stretch where there was a passing lane (so then we had two lanes on our side, the right lane for slow traffic, the left for passing), got in the left lane....and then just MATCHED the speed of the truck next to him.  They drove side-by-side almost the whole stretch, till the very end, when he finally accelerated to pass the truck....and I used the last 100 yards of lane to do the same.  Fucking asshole.

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19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

As someone who just made a round trip from S. Texas to Austin yesterday....I suspect a lot of people think the way you do, and they're all WAY fucking wrong.  I had to deal with driver after driver whose speed varied 10-15 mph, and it was maddening.  I just wanted to set my cruise and be done with it, but nope.

Maybe the "you can easily keep consistent SPEED" when the road is flat, but when it's rolling at all, hills of any sort, "consistent pressure on the gas pedal" doesn't come close to maintaining a set speed.  Just set the cruise control, and it will make the adjustments for you as the road elevates and drops (even slight grades influence speed).

Of course, the worst was the absolute flaming asshole in the Porsche SUV who, when we got to a stretch where there was a passing lane (so then we had two lanes on our side, the right lane for slow traffic, the left for passing), got in the left lane....and then just MATCHED the speed of the truck next to him.  They drove side-by-side almost the whole stretch, till the very end, when he finally accelerated to pass the truck....and I used the last 100 yards of lane to do the same.  Fucking asshole.

your first mistake was traveling to south texas without a private jet

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7 hours ago, Guadaloopy said:

Rob Lowe Yep GIF by SoFi

But that's the problem with a lot of the discussion in this thread.  People continually conflate Tesla's Autopilot features with FSD.  Tesla's "Autopilot" feature is simply TACC + Lane-keeping.  Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot takes it a step further and adds in automatic lane changes based on traffic conditions and set speed.  There is a third level of Autopilot called "Navigate on Autopilot" which will navigate highway interchanges and take highway exits.  FSD (Supervised) - the current revised Tesla nomenclature - does all of the above plus navigation on city streets.

The vehicle in the article above was in "Autopilot" = TACC + Lane-keeping. 

This doesn't sound confusing.

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2 hours ago, Samson's Wig said:

Fascinating. So you're one of those guys on the freeway.  Every time I get on an open highway it's obvious most people aren't aware cruise control even exists, especially younger drivers.    It's infuriating dealing with all the chucklefucks who will drive a couple of miles per hour slower than you would like to, but only speed up after you pass them and then slow right back down after they get in front of you again.  I gues they can't handle being behind someone.  Anyone who pulls that shit should lose their highway driving privileges.  Pick a fucking speed and stick with it. 


I see this too, but it’s not young drivers, usually middle aged to olds doing the up down speed and catching up when they get passed only to slow again while I’m using my ACC to maintain same speed the whole time.

 

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Because I know how to control a gas pedal and maintain speed? And I like to pass slow drivers. 

1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Whoa there ... Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) is the greatest highway driving advancement of my lifetime.

Exactly people pedal driving are missing out on the benefits of ACC I can keep an eye on it and lane change when available to maintain speed in loose traffic, or it can slow me down in heavier traffic so someone like Hank can weave in and out causing the slow down he claims he’s avoiding. 

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3 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

Unless you are driving during rush hour, why would you not use cruise control on the freeway?

Tesla Y owner here.  I don't use basic cruise control on it because it doesn't fucking work.

I drive alot between LA and Phoenix. Straight shot, nothing difficult.  Every time I try to use it out of the blue, going 80MPH, nothing but clear sailing, IT FUCKING SUDDENLY BRAKES, slowing the car from 80 to 40 in a couple of seconds.  As if there is some obstacle that isn't actually there.  So dangerous and disturbing I don't even use it.

I bought it 2-3 years ago for work since I put on so many miles, and before Elmo ramped us his moronic shit.  And honestly I still like it as a daily driver.  It's strangely relaxing for that, even though I still prefer CEVs.

That said, I cackle at anyone that thinks FSD will ever actually work.  That fuckstick's company can't even engineer a car with cruise control that worked for Cutlass Supremes 20-30 years ago.  

Edited by Mach 1
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Every road trip I've taken in the last 20 years I've set a cruise control for 4-7 mph over the speed limit just to keep me honest when it feels like I'm going to slow.
I will not own a vehicle without cruise control. Saved tons of road trip tickets. It's impossible to do 45 mph on Purgatory road otherwise.
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SIAP.  
 

AUSTIN (Austin Business Journal) — Tesla Inc.’s huge electric vehicle factory in eastern Travis County will no longer be subject to city of Austin environmental regulations after the company used a new state law to have the property removed from the city’s extraterritorial jurisdiction.

The controversial law — which some municipalities are challenging in court — took effect Sept. 1 and allows landowners on the fringes of major cities to petition for such removal, freeing them up to develop with fewer restrictions.

https://www.kxan.com/news/business/tesla-uses-new-state-law-to-sidestep-austin-regulations-at-gigafactory/
 
Sweet, imma catch yall some delicious bass from the Colorado just south of the factory.
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3 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Whoa there ... Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) is the greatest highway driving advancement of my lifetime.

I finally figured out how to turn it off and go to dumb cruise on my new 4Runner.  Gotdamn cars need to do what they're told.

Edited by WBT
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