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Posted
23 minutes ago, Captainant said:

So what, you're arguing dems should consign trans people to concentration camps to get along with the hip, hateful youth vote?

The problem is that the """trans issue""" is much like the "jew issue" in Nazi Germany. It's fully manufactured to paint a marginalized group as the enemy and "out" group, so that the fascists can marshal their body politik around that beacon. Most republican gripes about trans people don't even actually exist in reality - it's just built up in their heads and reinforced by state media and propaganda.

Litterboxes in classrooms, nurses delivering HRT on the sly in school, etc etc. None of it actually happened, but it's moving elections somehow? AND it's the Democrats fault? Please tell me more

First I want to be clear that I 100% agree with you. Second, my post was in response to the multiple previous posts that were suggesting the trans issue is a boogey man issue that is causing an outsized negative response.

Viewed through the context of “do you run to the message or run from it” I think the answer then is refuting with facts and when that doesn’t work because humans are emotional creatures, fight back. Contest the 1000 ads the GQP put out in 2024 about fear mongering on genders in sports.

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Posted
11 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Young parents. Bigly. They think their say as parents is going to be taken away by schools/doctors all too happy to let 12 year olds make their own influenced gender decisions. 

Not saying I agree, but that's the reality.

It's bad enough when it's Gen X or Boomers, but people who just went through school thinking this is at all how anything at school works are just the absolute dumbest people on earth. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

but people who just went through school thinking this is at all how anything at school works are just the absolute dumbest people on earth. 

I think I see a pattern…

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Posted
Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

You're blaming the wrong people. The right has made this a huge issue, and the left is just wanting to protect trans people. You shouldn't criticize the defenders who are reacting to an anti-trans movement. Hold the actual hate filled, fear inducing shit-stirrers accountable. 

 

 

Agree that should be the first job to be done. But when that leaves you exactly where you are, you are exactly where we are.

Refuting attacks with math, facts, reason, etc. goes back to the critique of we have to stop being so intellectual. People, especially the masses, are emotional creatures. They react based on feelings not facts.

At some point you have to make a political decision based on forecasted votes is all I’m saying. And either it’s try a vitriolic defense campaign or continue with the message around trans as is and continue dying on a hill or quietly punt on the issue until voters are really ready for it which seems to have helped Dems win in the past (e.g. marijuana, gay marriage, etc.).

Posted
Just now, Vegas64 said:

Agree that should be the first job to be done. But when that leaves you exactly where you are, you are exactly where we are.

Refuting attacks with math, facts, reason, etc. goes back to the critique of we have to stop being so intellectual. People, especially the masses, are emotional creatures. They react based on feelings not facts.

At some point you have to make a political decision based on forecasted votes is all I’m saying. And either it’s try a vitriolic defense campaign or continue with the message around trans as is and continue dying on a hill or quietly punt on the issue until voters are really ready for it which seems to have helped Dems win in the past (e.g. marijuana, gay marriage, etc.).

If you allow the anti-trans movement to breathe and flourish, other marginalized groups are next. It's not about intellectualism. It's just common decency. 

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If you allow the anti-trans movement to breathe and flourish, other marginalized groups are next. It's not about intellectualism. It's just common decency. 

 

Egalitarianism is a strong, motivating ideological force. Tens if not hundreds of millions of people in human history have fought for it and millions have died for it. 

Nobody is willing to fight and die for "Ok what we need is to pull 57% of white voters with college degrees, at least 85% of the black vote, at least 60% of the latino vote, and we checked the math and we want the gay vote but also the anti-trans vote" triangulating. 

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Refuting attacks with math, facts, reason, etc. goes back to the critique of we have to stop being so intellectual. People, especially the masses, are emotional creatures. They react based on feelings not facts.

If the logic is to abandon logic and reasoning, then you're playing into the fascists hands. 

11 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

At some point you have to make a political decision based on forecasted votes is all I’m saying. And either it’s try a vitriolic defense campaign or continue with the message around trans as is and continue dying on a hill or quietly punt on the issue until voters are really ready for it which seems to have helped Dems win in the past (e.g. marijuana, gay marriage, etc.).

What is "the message around trans as is" from the democrats? I understand it to be "they are human beings and deserve the same dignity and rights we all enjoy, because they're fucking human beings". I understand that it's not your position, but you really do seem to be recommending the democrats abandon that position to better attract the hateful youth vote 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Captainant said:

If the logic is to abandon logic and reasoning, then you're playing into the fascists hands. 

What is "the message around trans as is" from the democrats? I understand it to be "they are human beings and deserve the same dignity and rights we all enjoy, because they're fucking human beings". I understand that it's not your position, but you really do seem to be recommending the democrats abandon that position to better attract the hateful youth vote 

Abandoning logic and reason to “play the game” more effectively is hardly a unique position anymore, especially around here. Father Brisket and the ledgecore movement have been championing besting the fascists at their own game before it was deemed necessary. I mean, if a Dem came out today and said “we go high when they go low” not only would it not be applauded, they’d be skewered for being out of touch. An argument could be made not leaning into emotion at the expense of boring facts and reason is how we got here in the first place.

Edited by Vegas64
Posted
15 hours ago, Pancho said:

 

How much longer until we see a proposal for a DC Colloseum?  Complete with the Trump Games using immigrants and liberals as the lion bait. 

A New Floor for Rome's Colosseum: What You Need to Know | Art & Object

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Abandoning logic and reason to “play the game” more effectively is hardly a unique position anymore, especially around here. Father Brisket and the ledgecore movement have been championing besting the fascists at their own game before it was deemed necessary. I mean, if a Dem came out today and said “we go high when they go low” not only would it not be applauded, they’d be skewered for being out of touch. An argument could be made not leaning into emotion at the expense of boring facts and reason is how we got here in the first place.

I kid you not the car parked in front of me has a “100% deplorable” bumper sticker. These people are impervious to reason and shame.

Posted
1 minute ago, Vegas64 said:

I kid you not the car parked in front of me has a “100% deplorable” bumper sticker. These people are impervious to reason and shame.

I get your point and appreciate your willingness to discuss like adults. But I think we need to anticipate what bending the knee to shameless and unreasonable people means for the future of American society. It's not gonna be a place worth fighting for and living in if we don't address and defeat it now. It might already be too late. 

 

 

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Posted
19 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Abandoning logic and reason to “play the game” more effectively is hardly a unique position anymore, especially around here. Father Brisket and the ledgecore movement have been championing besting the fascists at their own game before it was deemed necessary. I mean, if a Dem came out today and said “we go high when they go low” not only would it not be applauded, they’d be skewered for being out of touch. An argument could be made not leaning into emotion at the expense of boring facts and reason is how we got here in the first place.

 

14 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

I kid you not the car parked in front of me has a “100% deplorable” bumper sticker. These people are impervious to reason and shame.

You're conceding the point that "facts are CR" before even getting to the conversation. You're complying in advance of the fascists. That is how fascists control language and control the dialogue and remove the linguistic capability of disagreeing with them.

Orwell wrote a book about where that sort of thing leads.

 

I'm not saying that the strategy is go "go high". I'm saying the Dems should fight fire with factual fire. Most of the republicans accusations are confessions. Go to the matt, drag out that dirt, disinfectant everything with sunlight. Blast from the heavens every goddamn republican that gets caught with kiddie porn and fucking children. That's facts that employs rhetoric.

That however unfortunately is "CR", while spouting off random hateful bullshit is protected as "just being an idiot". 

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Posted

Yeah, you have to operate from a position of truth, but that doesn't mean it all has to be reactive.  Go on the offensive.  Call bullshit.  Be ugly.  Just stay factual -- the facts are there.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

You're blaming the wrong people. The right has made this a huge issue, and the left is just wanting to protect trans people. You shouldn't criticize the defenders who are reacting to an anti-trans movement. Hold the actual hate filled, fear inducing shit-stirrers accountable. 

 

 

The best way to counter the message would be to start questioning the obsession.   Just start with showing how many times the ones accusing others of pedophelia were pedophiles themselves.   Then show how the disparity among political affiliation with pedophelia.   Then ask why they are so obsessed with trans people?  Are they wanting to transition?  Do they need validation?  I support you, heck we can even find a community of people to help you feel welcome and recover from republicanism.  

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Posted
2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

So the guy who got elected because prices were too high, immediately and intentionally makes prices even higher and his supporters cheer. 
And, it’s not a cult?

Posted
48 minutes ago, Captainant said:

 

You're conceding the point that "facts are CR" before even getting to the conversation. You're complying in advance of the fascists. That is how fascists control language and control the dialogue and remove the linguistic capability of disagreeing with them.

Orwell wrote a book about where that sort of thing leads.

 

I'm not saying that the strategy is go "go high". I'm saying the Dems should fight fire with factual fire. Most of the republicans accusations are confessions. Go to the matt, drag out that dirt, disinfectant everything with sunlight. Blast from the heavens every goddamn republican that gets caught with kiddie porn and fucking children. That's facts that employs rhetoric.

That however unfortunately is "CR", while spouting off random hateful bullshit is protected as "just being an idiot". 

From your mouth to God's ears. Good stuff and I agree 100% with you on this.

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Posted
43 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, you have to operate from a position of truth, but that doesn't mean it all has to be reactive.  Go on the offensive.  Call bullshit.  Be ugly.  Just stay factual -- the facts are there.

Is "ignorant cunt" factual?

Posted
46 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

Admittedly I'm ignorant about weather modification but there are companies that claim to be able to help produce rain. I don't know if its science based or the modern day equivalent of a rain dancer. I do think there should be regulation about someone putting chemicals in clouds, which is being done.  And I don't mean chemtrails.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Dragons Den Television GIF by CBC

We produce unnecessary tariffs that have harmed the US economy in both the short and long term, so the answer is borrowing more money to give to citizens? Wouldn't the easier answer be for Hawley to work to prevent Trump from causing these issues? (I know the answer.)

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Admittedly I'm ignorant about weather modification but there are companies that claim to be able to help produce rain. I don't know if its science based or the modern day equivalent of a rain dancer. I do think there should be regulation about someone putting chemicals in clouds, which is being done.  And I don't mean chemtrails.

It is a thing.  It's also not particularly effective.

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Captainant said:

So what, you're arguing dems should consign trans people to concentration camps to get along with the hip, hateful youth vote?

The problem is that the """trans issue""" is much like the "jew issue" in Nazi Germany. It's fully manufactured to paint a marginalized group as the enemy and "out" group, so that the fascists can marshal their body politik around that beacon. Most republican gripes about trans people don't even actually exist in reality - it's just built up in their heads and reinforced by state media and propaganda.

Litterboxes in classrooms, nurses delivering HRT on the sly in school, etc etc. None of it actually happened, but it's moving elections somehow? AND it's the Democrats fault? Please tell me more

A scary thought is that there just aren't very many trans people, not nearly as many as Jewish people in Germany and occupied areas of nazi germany. 
 

so they will quickly need to jump to the next group of other.  Which may be all lgbtq folks, but language suggests the final group will be “democrats”- it’s just a matter of how many steps in between they take. 
 

eta: the trans community is a great first out group for them because they are small. They don’t have the size to defend themselves, and many republicans will not know any personally to inform their opinion of them.  So they are easy to get people to be uncomfortable about, then to hate.  Then you tie them to a larger group, lgbtq.  Then tie them to lgbtq allies. Then I guess you can probably make the jump from there to all civil rights including race based when it’s time to round up all the queer hating Bible thumping black and Hispanic folks. 

Edited by Pato del Muerto
Posted (edited)

I've seen it theorized that autogenocide is the point of all this madness. Curious about y'alls thoughts.

image.thumb.png.a1c93ffe9ff9ba6616f8c3a277a8d9cc.png

Edited by Chopper
Posted
2 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

How much longer until we see a proposal for a DC Colloseum?  Complete with the Trump Games using immigrants and liberals as the lion bait. 

A New Floor for Rome's Colosseum: What You Need to Know | Art & Object

“The lions and hyenas are terrible, but Democrats are losing me with this hard left stuff.”

@Goredho, armed with a net and a trident

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

600 lousy bucks?  When are all the jobs (that nobody wanted) coming back home to make us great again Josh?

It's like when GlaxoSmithKline makes the life-saving medication $23,999 per pill but has a coupon program you can sign up for so that it only costs $1,200 per pill.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

“The lions and hyenas are terrible, but Democrats are losing me with this hard left stuff.”

@Goredho, armed with a net and a trident

 

IMG_0030.gif.fcb0ac03e23d373e22915b38bc1b9423.gif

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Posted
4 hours ago, sasquatch69 said:

This is worth your time - a real-world example of what the GOP's defunding of public broadcasting is doing (contrary to the "iT's aLl wOkE cRaP aNd NoBoDy lIsTeNs" narrative):

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/29/media/pbs-npr-trump-defund-rescissions-alaska-remote-stations

 

the R all out attack on rural america is damn fascinating. do they want to buy up all that land on the cheap ?

Posted
2 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

600 lousy bucks?  When are all the jobs (that nobody wanted) coming back home to make us great again Josh?

61b03cde-4215-472d-aef0-e90fe2b4374f_tex

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Posted

Acid rain for all, hooray! Let the coal roll!

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/trumps-epa-repeal-core-greenhouse-gas-rules-major-deregulatory-move-2025-07-29/

WASHINGTON, July 29 (Reuters) - The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency will rescind the long-standing finding that greenhouse gas emissions endanger human health, as well as tailpipe emission standards for vehicles, removing the legal foundation of greenhouse gas regulations across industries, EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin announced on Tuesday.

Republican President Donald Trump's pick Zeldin announced the agency's plan to rescind the "endangerment finding" at an event at a truck factory in Indiana, alongside Energy Secretary Chris Wright, and called it the largest deregulatory action in U.S. history.

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