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Posted
7 hours ago, C-Man said:

Mrs C-Man heard somewhere the Mystic property is worth anywhere from $50M-$100M but wonder if that much could be gotten considering what just happened there and future less-favorable flood mapping (presumably).

Your wife really thinks Mystic is worth $140,000 an acre? Wow

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Posted
Your wife really thinks Mystic is worth $140,000 an acre? Wow

Fuck if I know where she got that figure.




EDIT: had two posts get merged.


The Texas way: why the most disaster-prone US state is so allergic to preparing for disasters

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/13/texas-disaster-weather-preparations-us?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR47GArM3BSbX3RKDgF3YhpvFQqmEu0waCZx6WulsUZEhu6_7_dBHWqgyYAKtA_aem_47aPUk5fd4pcO6Wa4cgjXw
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Posted

On the lawsuit front.  No lawsuit is going to bring any children back, obviously.  A lawsuit is a vehicle for accountability, provided it doesn't settle.  And money is thin gruel for the bereaved.

I would not blame a parent who chose not to sue at all.  It's an extremely valid decision not to have to relive the trauma through a bunch of civil procedure and discovery lasting 4-5 years.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Leave it to the Brits to say it concisely and cuttingly:

The combination of small government ideology and climate crisis denial has distorted the politics of the state to the extent that basic decisions that might bolster climate resilience are shunted aside. The impact is seen at all levels, from the state capital in Austin down to local neighborhoods.

Nailed it.

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

kerr county has the land at $1.623m and improvements at $7.678m

The improvements are now pretty smoked.  

I’d imagine they could get around $20k/acre if it includes all of the waterfront and acreage together (700+). Maybe more if they divided it up and sold smaller chunks. Call it $15-18mm total? That doesn’t go very far across dozens of attorneys, 27 families with a dead child and 100+kids with emotional injuries. 

I have no idea how the insurance part works, but there will be a lot of claims sucking on it.

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Posted
2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

On the lawsuit front.  No lawsuit is going to bring any children back, obviously.  A lawsuit is a vehicle for accountability, provided it doesn't settle.  And money is thin gruel for the bereaved.

I would not blame a parent who chose not to sue at all.  It's an extremely valid decision not to have to relive the trauma through a bunch of civil procedure and discovery lasting 4-5 years.

image.jpeg.d95d80f026b30e82d04f7af1f196968e.jpeg

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Posted
11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

There apparently was an Austin attorney named Neal Bonner, now deceased.  He was probably the founding director or registered agent of the Mystic corporations and thus became the nominal correspondent on property tax stuff.  Not much to be read into it.

My law degree is from The Wire…so youre saying that dude was their Levy to D&B Enterprises, and that all the pieces matter?

Posted

So this is exactly what I talking about the cult trying to control the message like my local church did after a drowning at their poorly-managed summer wakeboard camp. This paragraph has a quote loaded w meaning: 

Dick Eastland died trying to rescue some of the youngest girls. Carr (spokesman for the owners) said that before making further comment, the surviving Eastland family members were gathering Sunday “really for the first time” to share experiences and knowledge of what happened that morning. “It will be important to go through this process and avoid sharing information on a piecemeal basis,” he said. 

In other words, everyone shut the fuck up and let's spin this as best we can to avoid trouble. 

Fuck those cheap, scummy, cult motherfuckers. I hope they get sued into oblivion. @South Austin, we need you! 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


That is a real letter. From the attorney general. Of an entire state.
Jesus monkeyfuck. Florida policy might as well have banned werewolves, and required all veterinarians to report all dogs that show signs of being a werewolf. We live in the stupidest, most insane timeline imaginable, and it’s only getting worse. Much worse.

Technically, I think it banned greenhouse gas emissions 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted
4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Leave it to the Brits to say it concisely and cuttingly:

The combination of small government ideology and climate crisis denial has distorted the politics of the state to the extent that basic decisions that might bolster climate resilience are shunted aside. The impact is seen at all levels, from the state capital in Austin down to local neighborhoods.

Imagine getting the Galveston Seawall built today

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Posted (edited)

This isn't just a backpack.

It belonged to young Blakely McCrory, 8. After tragedy struck, a community of dedicated volunteers began sifting through the debris, searching for anything they could return to the families of the campers.

A complete stranger found Blakely's backpack. Now, it's on its way back to her grieving mother, who will cherish it forever.

In a world that feels so full of noise and anger, this is the signal. This is the humanity that truly matters. It’s a stranger's love for a child who deserves to be remembered, and for a mother who deserves this piece of her.

It's the simplest, most powerful lesson: Love your neighbor. No qualifications. No exceptions.

img_1_1752569057664.jpg

Edited by pacman
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Posted

Whether Kerr County puts in a warning system/process now, that's just some version of how much of an idiot they are all. I'm more interested in other communities around the state whether they will review and update their flood warning systems or not. Most Texas places, especially on the eastern half may not have the extreme flash flooding potential but it doesn't mean they can't flood.

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Posted
21 hours ago, TreatyOak said:

I know what he was trying to say, but it really does make him sound like an idiot. 

Narrator: because he really is an idiot

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Posted
2 hours ago, pacman said:

This isn't just a backpack.

It belonged to young Blakely McCrory, 8. After tragedy struck, a community of dedicated volunteers began sifting through the debris, searching for anything they could return to the families of the campers.

A complete stranger found Blakely's backpack. Now, it's on its way back to her grieving mother, who will cherish it forever.

In a world that feels so full of noise and anger, this is the signal. This is the humanity that truly matters. It’s a stranger's love for a child who deserves to be remembered, and for a mother who deserves this piece of her.

It's the simplest, most powerful lesson: Love your neighbor. No qualifications. No exceptions.

img_1_1752569057664.jpg

I agree. 

Now go get all Republicans and their cult leader to actually do that. 

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Posted
12 hours ago, Texas Fight said:

The improvements are now pretty smoked.  

I’d imagine they could get around $20k/acre if it includes all of the waterfront and acreage together (700+). Maybe more if they divided it up and sold smaller chunks. Call it $15-18mm total? That doesn’t go very far across dozens of attorneys, 27 families with a dead child and 100+kids with emotional injuries. 

I have no idea how the insurance part works, but there will be a lot of claims sucking on it.

So all that tuition over the years, you think they spent 100% and have no other corporate assets or investments? Let’s not get carried away dreaming about whether the defendants are judgment proof bc we don’t have any facts. Hopefully these families can pursue whatever remedies to which they are entitled 

Posted

Doesn't Texas tort reform limit the camp(s) liability? Also the Texas Monthly article from 10+ years was very clear how they structured ownership to protect against taxes, I would have to assume that there was an unspoken aspect of liability protection as well. You can't tell me that they want to protect annual revenue from fed taxes but they didn't go even further to protect the main asset which was the property value?

Posted
You can build in the floodplain safely if you raise the base flood elevation of the home site.  It's just takes bringing in a shitton of dirt.  Your house may become an island during floods, but it will be untouched. 

Bad idea jeans. That sediment will get eroded with time as well. But you will look smart for a brief period while this works.
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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

So all that tuition over the years, you think they spent 100% and have no other corporate assets or investments? Let’s not get carried away dreaming about whether the defendants are judgment proof bc we don’t have any facts. Hopefully these families can pursue whatever remedies to which they are entitled 

This is exactly what I think.  Read the Texas Monthly article from 2011.  The camp owns nothing and moves money in and out each year to the owners, family members and the real estate holding company.  

https://www.texasmonthly.com/being-texan/the-not-so-happy-campers/

Stacy Eastland designed the Camp Mystic corporate structure and the family land it sits on.  Apparently, he is pretty good at what he does.

Times have changed for camps. Personal injury lawsuits, summer vacations shortened by state governments, and increased competition (bike tours to Bangkok, summer school at Harvard) now threaten their very existence. Many of the oldest institutions are family businesses that have seen the land value of their attractive locations skyrocket; it is not unusual for long-established places to falter as descendants push to break up the land and cash out to developers or to zillionaires in search of ever-larger weekend homes. Texas camps have not been immune. About three miles down the road from Mystic, Camp Arrowhead—where Farrah Fawcett was once a camper—shuttered its doors after more than fifty years, its demise due to family squabbling that erupted after land values started outstripping camp revenues. Instead of featuring summer activities, Arrowhead’s website now recounts the tragic circumstances of its closing. (“Greed does horrible things to people,” reads one statement.)

Stacy Eastland once hoped to protect Camp Mystic from that fate. He, like Dick and Nancy, grew up pitching in with the family business, working summers at the camp. He remembers a happy childhood with wonderful parents: The Eastland home, just outside Loop 610 near Memorial Park, was a place where discussions about current events were favored at the dinner table over TV. And though competition was valued—they were, after all, a camp family—the siblings were mostly tight-knit. Growing up, Stacy and Dick hunted and fished together, went to the boys’ camp Rio Vista, and met up to watch UT games. While their mother used her political acumen to boost Mystic’s cachet around the state, their father did the legal work for Mystic, a role Stacy eventually inherited.

Stacy and his wife, Tara, now live in an understated Georgian-style home in an understated part of Houston. He is well known in law circles as the expert on the family limited partnership, a legal instrument that helps wealthy families save or eliminate inheritance taxes. His mastery catapulted him from a partnership at Baker and Botts to a managing directorship at Goldman Sachs, where he lectures nationally and advises the representatives of even richer people on estate planning. He is one of those people to whom the word “brilliant” is often affixed as a modifier.

Edited by Texas Fight
Added more context
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Posted
8 minutes ago, Nivek said:


Bad idea jeans. That sediment will get eroded with time as well. But you will look smart for a brief period while this works.

For a house it's doable though.  For a camp, not so much. 

Posted
8 minutes ago, Texas Fight said:

This is exactly what I think.  Read the Texas Monthly article from 2011.  The camp owns nothing and moves money in and out each year to the owners, family members and the real estate holding company.  

https://www.texasmonthly.com/being-texan/the-not-so-happy-campers/

Stacy Eastland designed the Camp Mystic corporate structure and the family land it sits on.  Apparently, he is pretty good at what he does.

Times have changed for camps. Personal injury lawsuits, summer vacations shortened by state governments, and increased competition (bike tours to Bangkok, summer school at Harvard) now threaten their very existence. Many of the oldest institutions are family businesses that have seen the land value of their attractive locations skyrocket; it is not unusual for long-established places to falter as descendants push to break up the land and cash out to developers or to zillionaires in search of ever-larger weekend homes. Texas camps have not been immune. About three miles down the road from Mystic, Camp Arrowhead—where Farrah Fawcett was once a camper—shuttered its doors after more than fifty years, its demise due to family squabbling that erupted after land values started outstripping camp revenues. Instead of featuring summer activities, Arrowhead’s website now recounts the tragic circumstances of its closing. (“Greed does horrible things to people,” reads one statement.)

Stacy Eastland once hoped to protect Camp Mystic from that fate. He, like Dick and Nancy, grew up pitching in with the family business, working summers at the camp. He remembers a happy childhood with wonderful parents: The Eastland home, just outside Loop 610 near Memorial Park, was a place where discussions about current events were favored at the dinner table over TV. And though competition was valued—they were, after all, a camp family—the siblings were mostly tight-knit. Growing up, Stacy and Dick hunted and fished together, went to the boys’ camp Rio Vista, and met up to watch UT games. While their mother used her political acumen to boost Mystic’s cachet around the state, their father did the legal work for Mystic, a role Stacy eventually inherited.

Stacy and his wife, Tara, now live in an understated Georgian-style home in an understated part of Houston. He is well known in law circles as the expert on the family limited partnership, a legal instrument that helps wealthy families save or eliminate inheritance taxes. His mastery catapulted him from a partnership at Baker and Botts to a managing directorship at Goldman Sachs, where he lectures nationally and advises the representatives of even richer people on estate planning. He is one of those people to whom the word “brilliant” is often affixed as a modifier.

I should have included this excerpt....

 

The Eastlands put a high premium on two things: making money and avoiding taxes. By the mid- to late eighties, camps across the nation were confronting the very expensive problem of personal injury suits. Suddenly a camper accident—or, worse, a camper death—could spell ruin. Something had to be done. When Seaborn died, in 1990, finding a solution fell to Stacy.

Stacy’s goal was twofold: protect the camp from any devastating legal judgment and maintain the family’s shared income. (Anne insisted that she get at least the $200,000 in dividends she’d been receiving every year.) By 1998 he had devised a solution. He created a holding company that would own the camp’s assets, including the land and the buildings, to be called Natural Fountains Properties, after some springs on the grounds. NFP would be run by Anne, Stacy, Nancy, Dick, and the cousins, with Dick as president. Stacy also created Camp Mystic, Incorporated, which would be owned and operated by Dick and Tweety. Essentially, NFP was the landlord and Mystic was the tenant. To establish a fair rent for the family—and to keep those dividends coming—Stacy created a mathematical formula based on the idea that land values and camp revenues would grow at the same rate. Every year, Dick was to add the cost of replacing all the buildings to the land value, then multiply that number by a designated factor.

 

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Posted

I remember when people wanted to build a tollroad through the floodplains and in between the levees around the Trinity River here in Dallas to help suburbanites get around downtown. Thankfully, it got shut down for the incredibly stupid idea it was. There was supposed to be a park that was added as well but that got scrapped. It doesn't flood nearly that much but when it does, it's pretty scary. 

 

Posted
22 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Doesn't Texas tort reform limit the camp(s) liability? Also the Texas Monthly article from 10+ years was very clear how they structured ownership to protect against taxes, I would have to assume that there was an unspoken aspect of liability protection as well. You can't tell me that they want to protect annual revenue from fed taxes but they didn't go even further to protect the main asset which was the property value?

i'd assume that parents have to sign a hell of waiver 

Posted
10 hours ago, cmontexas said:

Imagine getting the Galveston Seawall built today

The Galveston Seawall could never be built today—unless Greg Abbott thought it might stop a migrant from paddling ashore on a pool float. Then it’d be a “border security monument” with a billion-dollar price tag and a press conference thanking God.

12 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

i'd assume that parents have to sign a hell of waiver 

You can waive a lot of things—mosquito bites, sprained ankles, questionable food. What you can’t waive is gross negligence. That’s a legal line in the sand, and if this ends up in court, the line between negligence and gross negligence will be where the battle begins.

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Posted
13 minutes ago, kevwun said:

For a house it's doable though.  For a camp, not so much. 

It is a bad idea all around unless you are planning on engineering a rerouting of the waterway.  Those pathways were cut into the sand and stone by rushing water in the past, dumping sediment even if one takes the time to try to mimic compaction is just a temporary fix.   The homeowner would need to add new sediment and/or a concrete reinforcement (ala a sea wall style) to make it hold out longer.    It is just more reasonable to not build there unless one is really intent on it and has significant resources to pull it off.   As a camp, you are exactly right, there is just too much at risk and it would take some expensive engineering to mitigate it further.    

I knew nothing about this place before.  But I know enough to be able to evaluate locations based on just looking at the geology/geomorphology even though this is not at all my area of expertise.   Someone with much more credibility (any hydrologists on here?) could better advise and plan this out.  

I imagine the camps don't start out flush with cash and their ignorance of history beyond their lifetime or local only knowledge is not a sufficient excuse.  Harry Truman of Mt. St. Helens could testify to that if he wasn't erased from existence.  

 

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Posted
On 7/13/2025 at 10:31 AM, Pato del Muerto said:

and, my instinct tells me that if Seattle had a cyclonic storm induced flood, the good god-fearing people of Kerr county would laugh and say good riddance.  Not all of them, of course, but a fair number. 

I’m going to quote myself for a little update. Per the metadata available, the post about the company giving campaign has been seen by 5500 people. And there are 91 donations. I don’t know what the regular rate for something like this is, but that seems low. So I wonder if some of my speculation in the quote is applicable in the other direction. 



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