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Posted
7 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

I've skipped the thread to ask a question. I thought the first episode went slow and never got very far. Does the narrative pick up some tempo and reveal interesting facts?

If it's mostly about mourning, then I'm not that interested. I already know it was terrible.

No. They don’t introduce Springsteen as a subject until the final moments of the episode. It deals with the ineptitude of the police primarily, the false confessions, the targeting of goth kids, the anger of the families, and the toll this took on all of them. Seeing as how they weren’t able to interview the kids who were convicted, and are having to rely on the 2009 failed documentary footage,  we’re probably going to move into their trial, conviction, and exoneration. 
 

 

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Posted (edited)

I watched episode two last night.   There has been so much false hopes and stuff with this case now for three decades and some change I forgot about some of the details like the arrest of the three Mexican dudes.  I might have missed that part but did they note the motives of the Mexican authorities in setting up them up for a false confessions?   This just seemed wild but I can see where it was a theory that was easily believable at the time because that was when cartel activity kind or ramped up and started making headlines outside of Mexico 

Edited by Nueces River Rat
Posted
21 hours ago, Kermit said:

The fuck happened to that detective that when he retired he became a goddamn swamp person?

I almost choked on my coffee last night when I read that.  Such an accurate description.

Posted

Detective Jones might be the most interesting person in the doc so far, if it isn't Springsteen. That guy today is portrayed as just completely broken and alone, which is so jarring compared to the bustling family home with kids hanging off of him when that CBS reporter visited him in the 90s. PTSD might not be the whole story with him.

I'm not sure I like how Brown is approaching this, since we're halfway done and barely scratched the surface on the theories of the murder that actually went to trial. Hardly anything about Michael Scott or the DNA. I understand wanting to know more about the victims and the impact of the murders on the families, but do we actually need a lengthy segment for each tree and plaque around town? I'm much more interested in the Old Austin cast of characters, like the poor girl whose occult dildo collection was raided. Would've loved more time behind the "Quite Please" curtain during the Springsteen interview instead of the hasty series of clips we got.

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Posted

You know, you could probably do a doc on the 1982 Lake Waco murders, too, that is just as infuriating. They convicted three or four guys, but I’m not convinced they ever solved them. 

Posted
42 minutes ago, statsman said:

You know, you could probably do a doc on the 1982 Lake Waco murders, too, that is just as infuriating. They convicted three or four guys, but I’m not convinced they ever solved them. 

I was a kid in Waco when this happened.  I have barely kept up with any of this case beyond the initial convictions.  It is pretty messed up what has happened since then including the execution of David Spence if he was indeed innocent.  I read 'Careless Whispers' when I was staying high.  It was unnerving reading that and knowing some people named in the book as well as where the murders took place and where the bodies were found and all other locations mentioned.

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Posted
4 hours ago, BonzoMontreaux said:

I was a kid in Waco when this happened.  I have barely kept up with any of this case beyond the initial convictions.  It is pretty messed up what has happened since then including the execution of David Spence if he was indeed innocent.  I read 'Careless Whispers' when I was staying high.  It was unnerving reading that and knowing some people named in the book as well as where the murders took place and where the bodies were found and all other locations mentioned.

Yeah, I used to work at the Mr. Gattis the victims left that night, and my family lived in Speegleville. 
 
For those who don’t know- Waco PD arrested and convicted four people for raping and killing those girls, based on a shaky confession (a cell mate of one of the four claimed he confessed to him, and that purported confession was used to coerce actual confessions from two others - “plead guilty and you won’t get executed”). The other two pled not guilty, but all four were convicted. One of the four won release on appeal, the other was executed and the two that pled guilty-later retracted- died in prison. 

Years later, the same detective and DA got a similar hokey confession to convict another guy for rape and murder, but he was released when DNA evidence exonerated him. So, yeah, not sure about that case really being closed. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

The fact that false confessions happen so often is bonkers.  What a bizarro part of the human psyche. 

And how many tens of thousands of people are in jail because cops exploit that psyche to pursue confessions at all costs, often lying to lead them there.

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Posted
8 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Yeah, cops being able to flat out lie about anything has always been very strange to me. 

Never trust or rely on law enforcement as your best interests are always at the bottom of the list while theirs will always be paramount. If a cop is talking, he's probably lying. A profession where you have almost zero accountability for wrongful actions will always attract the worst among us. No surprise the culture is rotten to the core.

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Posted (edited)

20 years ago, I was trying to convince a friend whose teen son was accused of something bad at school, that had been referred to the police, that he needed a lawyer. He felt his son was innocent, and didn’t see why he needed one. 
 
I convinced him by saying that it might be a mistake to assume that police officer is like Stabler on “Law and Order”, trying to get to the truth. That maybe he is just a bureaucrat, trying to work a list of assignments down, and if he can close a case by convincing them to plea to a lesser charge (by threatening a bigger charge), he’d do it. That an attorney would keep the police honest. 
 
He asked his parents for money, hired an attorney, and now admits it was the best money ever spent. 

Edited by statsman

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