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Posted
7 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

I've skipped the thread to ask a question. I thought the first episode went slow and never got very far. Does the narrative pick up some tempo and reveal interesting facts?

If it's mostly about mourning, then I'm not that interested. I already know it was terrible.

No. They don’t introduce Springsteen as a subject until the final moments of the episode. It deals with the ineptitude of the police primarily, the false confessions, the targeting of goth kids, the anger of the families, and the toll this took on all of them. Seeing as how they weren’t able to interview the kids who were convicted, and are having to rely on the 2009 failed documentary footage,  we’re probably going to move into their trial, conviction, and exoneration. 
 

 

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Posted (edited)

I watched episode two last night.   There has been so much false hopes and stuff with this case now for three decades and some change I forgot about some of the details like the arrest of the three Mexican dudes.  I might have missed that part but did they note the motives of the Mexican authorities in setting up them up for a false confessions?   This just seemed wild but I can see where it was a theory that was easily believable at the time because that was when cartel activity kind or ramped up and started making headlines outside of Mexico 

Edited by Nueces River Rat
Posted
21 hours ago, Kermit said:

The fuck happened to that detective that when he retired he became a goddamn swamp person?

I almost choked on my coffee last night when I read that.  Such an accurate description.

Posted

Detective Jones might be the most interesting person in the doc so far, if it isn't Springsteen. That guy today is portrayed as just completely broken and alone, which is so jarring compared to the bustling family home with kids hanging off of him when that CBS reporter visited him in the 90s. PTSD might not be the whole story with him.

I'm not sure I like how Brown is approaching this, since we're halfway done and barely scratched the surface on the theories of the murder that actually went to trial. Hardly anything about Michael Scott or the DNA. I understand wanting to know more about the victims and the impact of the murders on the families, but do we actually need a lengthy segment for each tree and plaque around town? I'm much more interested in the Old Austin cast of characters, like the poor girl whose occult dildo collection was raided. Would've loved more time behind the "Quite Please" curtain during the Springsteen interview instead of the hasty series of clips we got.

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Posted

You know, you could probably do a doc on the 1982 Lake Waco murders, too, that is just as infuriating. They convicted three or four guys, but I’m not convinced they ever solved them. 

Posted
42 minutes ago, statsman said:

You know, you could probably do a doc on the 1982 Lake Waco murders, too, that is just as infuriating. They convicted three or four guys, but I’m not convinced they ever solved them. 

I was a kid in Waco when this happened.  I have barely kept up with any of this case beyond the initial convictions.  It is pretty messed up what has happened since then including the execution of David Spence if he was indeed innocent.  I read 'Careless Whispers' when I was staying high.  It was unnerving reading that and knowing some people named in the book as well as where the murders took place and where the bodies were found and all other locations mentioned.

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Posted
4 hours ago, BonzoMontreaux said:

I was a kid in Waco when this happened.  I have barely kept up with any of this case beyond the initial convictions.  It is pretty messed up what has happened since then including the execution of David Spence if he was indeed innocent.  I read 'Careless Whispers' when I was staying high.  It was unnerving reading that and knowing some people named in the book as well as where the murders took place and where the bodies were found and all other locations mentioned.

Yeah, I used to work at the Mr. Gattis the victims left that night, and my family lived in Speegleville. 
 
For those who don’t know- Waco PD arrested and convicted four people for raping and killing those girls, based on a shaky confession (a cell mate of one of the four claimed he confessed to him, and that purported confession was used to coerce actual confessions from two others - “plead guilty and you won’t get executed”). The other two pled not guilty, but all four were convicted. One of the four won release on appeal, the other was executed and the two that pled guilty-later retracted- died in prison. 

Years later, the same detective and DA got a similar hokey confession to convict another guy for rape and murder, but he was released when DNA evidence exonerated him. So, yeah, not sure about that case really being closed. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

The fact that false confessions happen so often is bonkers.  What a bizarro part of the human psyche. 

And how many tens of thousands of people are in jail because cops exploit that psyche to pursue confessions at all costs, often lying to lead them there.

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Posted
8 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Yeah, cops being able to flat out lie about anything has always been very strange to me. 

Never trust or rely on law enforcement as your best interests are always at the bottom of the list while theirs will always be paramount. If a cop is talking, he's probably lying. A profession where you have almost zero accountability for wrongful actions will always attract the worst among us. No surprise the culture is rotten to the core.

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Posted (edited)

20 years ago, I was trying to convince a friend whose teen son was accused of something bad at school, that had been referred to the police, that he needed a lawyer. He felt his son was innocent, and didn’t see why he needed one. 
 
I convinced him by saying that it might be a mistake to assume that police officer is like Stabler on “Law and Order”, trying to get to the truth. That maybe he is just a bureaucrat, trying to work a list of assignments down, and if he can close a case by convincing them to plea to a lesser charge (by threatening a bigger charge), he’d do it. That an attorney would keep the police honest. 
 
He asked his parents for money, hired an attorney, and now admits it was the best money ever spent. 

Edited by statsman
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Posted
On 8/11/2025 at 8:07 PM, randomhorn said:

That was insanity. I can’t imagine her being an actual PI vs the leader of a book club where everyone’s gone all in on their pet theory

APD attempting to break down a door to go after goth kids and the satanic panic was pretty special too 

Good to see Dick Ellis, Nudie Maggio, and Robert Hadlock again though

Nudie? Is there a story there, or is that just a typo?

 

On 8/12/2025 at 10:03 PM, Biff Tannen said:

The fact that false confessions happen so often is bonkers.  What a bizarro part of the human psyche. 

The part that really bothers me is the cops who question suspect for hours on end, denying basics like food and drink and coercing bullshit confessions just to make the experience end.

Those guys are total assholes and not interested at all in getting the truth.

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Posted

I know the 2 original detectives are trying to make it look like they didnt suck ass in the investigations, so their responses have to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

but it really is sounding like that original investigator that had "never not salved a murder" was a raging asshole cop who took the route of any confession is good work.

 

how many fucking confessions did Det Jones say they had? 6 written and 40 verbal??

 

holy fuck no wonder why they cant lock the case down.

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Posted
31 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

Nudie? Is there a story there, or is that just a typo?

IIRC, Ron Oliveira slipped up and accidentally called her that once in passing on air 

Posted (edited)
On 8/12/2025 at 9:03 PM, Biff Tannen said:

The fact that false confessions happen so often is bonkers.  What a bizarro part of the human psyche. 

 

On 8/12/2025 at 10:38 PM, aggie08 said:

And how many tens of thousands of people are in jail because cops exploit that psyche to pursue confessions at all costs, often lying to lead them there.

 

5 hours ago, TrashMaster G said:

The part that really bothers me is the cops who question suspect for hours on end, denying basics like food and drink and coercing bullshit confessions just to make the experience end.

Those guys are total assholes and not interested at all in getting the truth.

Jessie Misskelley and the West Memphis Three say 👋 another one that will never be solved 🙁

 

i had a Texas writing component class in 96 or so and for my final paper i focused on Texas' violent image...historical stuff (revolution/war, rangers v. Comanche, servant girl murders, Kennedy assassination, etc.) but then brought it very current with Kenneth McDuff, Branch Davidians, and these murders. Dan Rather had done a 48 Hours episode dedicated to the murders, i actually wrote to CBS studios and got a VHS copy of the episode, i believe it cost me $16. what a world. 😕

Edited by mchookem
Posted

As far as the series goes so far, Margaret Brown isn't exactly showing herself to be a world-class documentarian. Part of that may be due to the footage sourced from so many different providers and other filmmakers, but she's meandering all over the place and not doing a good job clearly tracking the key dates & players along the way.

And Austin and APD is looking really backwoods so far. The interrogation footage in the next episodes is gonna be the red meat.

Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, mchookem said:

...

i had a Texas writing component class in 96 or so and for my final paper i focused on Texas' violent image...historical stuff (revolution/war, rangers v. Comanche, servant girl murders, Kennedy assassination, etc.) but then brought it very current with Kenneth McDuff, Branch Davidians, and these murders. Dan Rather had done a 48 Hours episode dedicated to the murders, i actually wrote to CBS studios and got a VHS copy of the episode, i believe it cost me $16. what a world. 😕

Bolded + Lake Waco Murders, Twin Peaks shoot out, Chip and Joana Gaines... my hometown...

Edited by BonzoMontreaux
Posted

I knew he was going to be a problem when they introduced him and said he had solved every murder he had been assigned.  That's just not possible without some wrongful convictions.

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Posted

Yeah, the toothless former detective said point blank that Polanco could get people to confess to things when they weren't even there. And the other detectives knew that he was getting bogus confessions from suspects. Being the principled public servants they immediately spoke up and told their superiors and said "no, you've got the wrong guy here. Polanco beat a confession out of the dude. He's innocent. We need to go back and investigate further to make sure we catch the real killer!" Right?

Posted
15 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Yeah, the toothless former detective said point blank that Polanco could get people to confess to things when they weren't even there. And the other detectives knew that he was getting bogus confessions from suspects. Being the principled public servants they immediately spoke up and told their superiors and said "no, you've got the wrong guy here. Polanco beat a confession out of the dude. He's innocent. We need to go back and investigate further to make sure we catch the real killer!" Right?

 

 

it sounds like they somehow convinced everyone that MAAAAAAAYYYYYYBBBEEE the confession Hector got might not have been above board.

 

what those 2 should have fucking done to get rid of that asshole was tell the chief or deputy chief that Hector was up to something.... and then lie their ass off to Hector about about much money was recovered from the store- Det Jones said 1200 wasnt right  (Im assuming it couldnt have been more than $600), but tell Hector $1800... tell the big chiefs you told Hector 1800 was the take on the robbery and see how fucking fast someone confessed to doing the crime and taking 1800 bucks out of the till. 

 

But clearly SOMEONE finally realized Hector was bullshit cause 3 months after the false confessions he finally got booted off the case. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

But clearly SOMEONE finally realized Hector was bullshit cause 3 months after the false confessions he finally got booted off the case. 

Well, they didn't need him any longer. They had the confessions. 

Posted
On 8/13/2025 at 3:22 PM, statsman said:

20 years ago, I was trying to convince a friend whose teen son was accused of something bad at school, that had been referred to the police, that he needed a lawyer. He felt his son was innocent, and didn’t see why he needed one. 
 
I convinced him by saying that it might be a mistake to assume that police officer is like Stabler on “Law and Order”, trying to get to the truth. That maybe he is just a bureaucrat, trying to work a list of assignments down, and if he can close a case by convincing them to plea to a lesser charge (by threatening a bigger charge), he’d do it. That an attorney would keep the police honest. 
 
He asked his parents for money, hired an attorney, and now admits it was the best money ever spent. 

It's not particularly relevant to this show or case, and probably belongs elsewhere but it ties in at least. 

Homicide detectives are measured on their close rate, just like anyone in sales. So, I'm going to use that as an analogy. (Please note this is gross oversimplification) You have, broadly speaking, generally 3 types of sales folks. You have longer term relationship builders that get a few big accounts and successfully milk them (relational), you have the grinder/closers that are always building their pipeline through networking, cold calls, referrals (grinders), pressure sales and some luck, then you have the guys that manipulate the system through a lot of different ways and coast until they are uncovered (weasels). (There is the rare relational grinder but they are absolutely the exception)

You find the same in detectives. The relational tend to use existing contacts, spend time and move a little slower. Grinders tend to find a ton of possible suspects, pound pavement and investigate tons of leads. Then you have weasels that are, essentially just trying to pin it on the easiest culprit and will use immoral and often illegal tactics to "close the deal". They tend to be boastful and full of shit. 

Here's the thing, its not limited to Homicide detectives nor city/state but expands to federal. 

If you're ever called for questioning, get a lawyer, 100% of the time.

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Posted
6 hours ago, Deej said:

Polanco was notorious for his bullshit. He also sued claiming he was singled out and punished because he was Hispanic. 

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/78/968/504974/

Wow:

Quote

Unbeknownst to either Polanco or McDonald, about fifteen minutes before Salazar signed the confession, the true perpetrators confessed to the Redman murder. Salazar's confession eventually was declared "false" because Salazar was actually in APD custody at the time the murder took place. Despite the falsity of the confession, Polanco received the Department's Basics Award because of his assistance with the Redman investigation.

 

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