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Posted
3 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Or we've been lying about the full capacity range of the stealth bombers.

Underselling, yes. But it doesn't change the fact that even without 60,000 lbs of ordinance, a B2 flying from Missouri to Iran is going to need to refuel. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

the fucking hyperbole with these cretins. best evar! perfect call! gaslighting the entire world. fucking madness

But it's not even good gaslighting.  It's how a 4 year old would do it.

Posted
19 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Japan had already surrendered before that actually. The US killed civilians primarily to scare the USSR.

Here is your original post.  Shall we dissect it some more for you?  

Actually = as the truth or facts of a situation; really.

Posted
3 hours ago, 'stache said:

He even described finding Japanese soldiers in Southeast Asia decades later hiding in jungles who had no opponents to fight but they were ready. It was a lot I didn’t know or hadn’t really thought about. I don’t think it’s possible to form a real opinion on the morality of using the bombs to end that war.

 

IMG_0010.webp

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Posted
53 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Coordinating the actions of over hundred aircraft with minimal to no communication over thousands and thousands of miles so that they all arrive where they are supposed to be precisely when they are supposed to be there is very complex. Doing so in way that will minimize the likelihood of detection while also including multiple mid-air fueling points  even more so. 

Seriously.  Are people on this board serious trying to downplay an outstanding job by our military because of fucking politics.  JFC.

Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Seriously.  Are people on this board serious trying to downplay an outstanding job by our military because of fucking politics.  JFC.

Tactically, the mission was very impressive. No other nation has the experience or demonstrated capability to pull off a mission like that. Whether it was strategically wise or successful is up for debate. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted
1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Tactically, the mission was very impressive. Whether it was strategically wise or successful is up for debate. 

Agreed.   I mean particularly considering the context of what an absolute shitshow and worldwide embarrassment pretty much the entire Ukraine war has been for the Russian military.   Israel with their first strike and then the U.S. with this strike still put the world on notice as to what a competent military can look like.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Seriously.  Are people on this board serious trying to downplay an outstanding job by our military because of fucking politics.  JFC.

Lol at thinking the logistics of all that was handled by humans. You give an AI parameters to plan and it does the rest.

Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Seriously.  Are people on this board serious trying to downplay an outstanding job by our military because of fucking politics.  JFC.

No one on this board is downplaying the military's job for political purposes.  The Trump administration is clearly overselling an impressive operation because of....politics.

Some on this board are wondering exactly how this sort of operation was as complex as the administration is claiming.

Did they have to operate with radio and all other communications silence while coordinating?  If there were multiple pilots, how does a 36 hour flight rise to the level of unprecedented and difficult? etc., etc.

Edited by DDD Dad
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Posted
1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

No one is downplaying the military's job for political purposes.  The Trump administration is clearly overselling an impressive operation because of....politics he has tiny hands and a little mushroom nub for a pecker

fify

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Posted

TripleSecDef: "Trump is awesome! He is the bestest there has ever been! None of us would even be alive today if it weren't for Dotard! Also, stop politicizing this!". 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Lol at thinking the logistics of all that was handled by humans. You give an AI parameters to plan and it does the rest.

Helobious, of all people, is not impressed.  Classic

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Posted
1 minute ago, 'stache said:

Nobody anywhere doubted it could be pulled off especially against the Iranian military. The issue currently is his and his minions' insistence on always having to be the bestest or greatest thing ever which is a complete insult to the people who fought prior wars against legitimate enemies in some of the most complex and tactical missions ever conceived and executed upon. Flying a plane into the desert and dropping some bombs on a mountain surrounded by goat fuckers pales in comparison. Sure its complex and well executed, but the puffery and comparisons are what are insanely unnecessary and idiotic. 

Yes, quite the shock that the U.S. is boasting about a complex military operations.   Never seen that before.  Not like there aren't dozens of Hollywood movies dramatizing damn near every material military accomplishment this country has ever had.   

Posted
15 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Yes, quite the shock that the U.S. is boasting about a complex military operations.   Never seen that before.  Not like there aren't dozens of Hollywood movies dramatizing damn near every material military accomplishment this country has ever had.   

Does it bother you at all that he and his fuck bois are out there insisting on "complete obliteration" and rage tweeting like an emo tween at any media outlet that suggests otherwise?

Posted (edited)

Operationally successful = All planes delivered bombs on target and returned home before is was published to the press on Signal.  No one is arguing against this. Our Military can do things other nations cannot like replenishing fuel and weapons for ships while traveling at 20+ knots in a heavy fog.  We don't do the complex missions or exercises for the sake of doing them, we do them to be able to complete a mission objective.

Operationally Effective = objective of the mission is realized.  On this one we can't even get the White House, Pentagon and Director of National Intelligence to agree on what the objective was.  Granted there can be multiple objectives but Hegseth can't get them out in order without sounding drunk. Trump is focused on planes flying a dropping bombs "The pilots pulled off something never seen before!!!" and only occasionally remembers that you have to assess effectiveness of the bombing. Can you imagine an oncologist who was only concerned with delivering the chemo and not whether it killed the cancer?

Was the Objective to:

  • Prevent Iran from achieving a nuclear bomb in the next 2-5 years? - Unknown, saying there is a setback is fair but how big?
  • Destroy the infrastructure to enrich uranium beyond 60% - Unknown, sure bombs were dropped but there is no BDA on the facilities under the mountain just satellite images from above.  Analysts said before the operation that it could take successive missions.
  • Destroy all current 60% uranium stockpiles - Unlikely, some reports are saying the stockpiles were moved before the mission.
  • Cripple the corporate knowledge, research arm of Iran by killing the scientists - Partially effective.

The people at the podiums are not serious people who can wait for the assessments to be complete so they front run it with their sensational stories because it doesn't matter if they are right when the real mission is something else.

Spoiler

All the evidence point to the real mission being something else:

  • Distraction from the BBB in congress
  • Distraction from the flop of a birthday parade
  • Distraction from dropping poll numbers and the unrest spreading over losing constitutional rights like Habeus Corpus and Due Process.
  • Edit: Bailing out Netanyahu for starting something he could not finish.  (Thanks to the guys that pointed this out)
Edited by TexasEd
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Posted
6 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

Operationally successful = All planes delivered bombs on target and returned home before is was published to the press on Signal.  No one is arguing against this. Our Military can do things other nations cannot like replenishing fuel and weapons for ships while traveling at 20+ knots in a heavy fog.  We don't do the complex missions or exercises for the sake of doing them, we do them to be able to complete a mission objective.

Operationally Effective = objective of the mission is realized.  On this one we can't even get the White House, Pentagon and Director of National Intelligence to agree on what the objective was.  Granted there can be multiple objectives but Hegseth can't get them out in order without sounding drunk. Trump is focused on planes flying a dropping bombs "The pilots pulled off something never seen before!!!" and only occasionally remembers that you have to assess effectiveness of the bombing. Can you imagine an oncologist who was only concerned with delivering the chemo and not whether it killed the cancer?

Was the Objective to:

  • Prevent Iran from achieving a nuclear bomb in the next 2-5 years? - Unknown, saying there is a setback is fair but how big?
  • Destroy the infrastructure to enrich uranium beyond 60% - Unknown, sure bombs were dropped but there is no BDA on the facilities under the mountain just satellite images from above.  The people at the podiums are not serious people who can wait for the assessments to be complete so they front run it with their sensational stories because it doesn't matter if they are right when the real mission is something else. Analysts said before the operation that it could take successive missions.
  • Destroy all current 60% uranium stockpiles - Unlikely, some reports are saying the stockpiles were moved before the mission.
  • Cripple the corporate knowledge, research arm of Iran by killing the scientists - Partially effective.
  Hide contents

All the evidence point to the real mission being something else:

  • Distraction from the BBB in congress
  • Distraction from the flop of a birthday parade
  • Distraction from dropping poll numbers and the unrest spreading over losing constitutional rights like Habeus Corpus and Due Process.

You left off 

Spoiler

Redirection of praise of fnc talking heads from bibi to trump

 

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Posted
50 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Seriously.  Are people on this board serious trying to downplay an outstanding job by our military because of fucking politics.  JFC.

Overshadowing the military accomplishments is the President and his politics of zero transparency and petulantly attacking anybody who dare contradict his social media posts.

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Posted

disagree on evidence pointing to mission being any of your spoiled points

all evidence points towards the real mission being bailing out fucking bibi who went off script and started a skywar (over jordan and iraq) when it was clear there was not a consensus with the us in advance, said bibi biting off more than he could chew creating a problem he knew he couldn't solve and the clown show would have no other option than to fix it

and kudos to bibi - he saw an opening with the domestic unrest the clown regime was embroiled in and blindsided us

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Posted
59 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Did they have to operate with radio and all other communications silence while coordinating? 

Yes. That appears to be exactly what they did. Fighters, tankers, bombers, naval assets, surveillance, and electronic warfare assets all had to be precisely timed and routed. Small individual deviations given the distances, scale, and timeframes involved would have been greatly amplified. This level of coordination is very impressive.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes. That appears to be exactly what they did. Fighters, tankers, bombers, naval assets, surveillance, and electronic warfare assets all had to be precisely timed and routed. Small individual deviations given the distances, scale, and timeframes involved would have been greatly amplified. This level of coordination is very impressive.

And yet I'll bet they had radios on where they received their course corrections and other coordinating adjustments over satellite coms but never transmitted.  Impressive but the mission objective was not to fly around radio silent.

Edited by TexasEd
Posted
4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes. That appears to be exactly what they did. Fighters, tankers, bombers, naval assets, surveillance, and electronic warfare assets all had to be precisely timed and routed. Small individual deviations given the distances, scale, and timeframes involved would have been greatly amplified. This level of coordination is very impressive.

Dude, they just fed it all to Grok and had it do the heavy lifting.

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Posted

as far as the mission itself, the flight computers in all of the b2s were communicating encrypted by satellite and BACN-capable global hawks that were far enough away on flight profiles that would give no triangulation with the attack squadron

assets back in the us could watch the flight computers achieve their programmed perfection - there was no "radio silence", this isn't yamamoto's eastern operation task force on 2 june 41

the greatest problem with discovery of the mission and loss of surprise would the the kc-46 refueling sequences which are visible to radar IF THEY ARE IN RANGE OF RADAR....

..... unless we have a mobile cloaking platform that defeats radar .....   or unless the refueling took place WAY out away from land...  i'll come back to this

the question of intrigue on this mission: what asset was used for refueling?

the kc-135 has been the frontline operational refueling platform for 70 years, and we still use them

they are being gradually replaced by the kc-46...  they were forward-deployed on the 15th with the -135s .... was this it's first mission?

Quote

The U.S. Air Force has made an unprecedented mass deployment of KC-135 and KC-46 aerial tankers across the Atlantic from bases on the American mainland, fuelling considerable speculation that the aircraft may be intended to participate in the ongoing Israeli-Iranian War. The number of aircraft has continued to rise, and was reported in the late hours of June 15, West Coast time, to have exceeded 30 tankers. Tankers from multiple Western countries have been reported to be participating in supporting Israeli Air Force aerial refuelling efforts to facilitate strikes on Iran, raising the possibility that these newly deployed tankers may be intended to similarly refuel Israeli assets. Another significant possibility is that the aircraft are intended to refuel U.S. Air Force and U.S. Navy fighters and bombers should the United States more actively enter the war. The U.S. is already an active participant in hostilities, and has deployed THAAD air defence systems and AEGIS destroyers to support efforts to shoot down Iranian ballistic missiles being fired at Israeli targets. American intelligence support and satellite guidance for Israeli guided weapons have also reportedly been provided.

 great set of headlines:

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/us-forward-deploys-dozens-aerial-tankers-iran

image.thumb.png.f2869acd5a3a40e46da9d81cb8aeef51.png

 

about the invisible plane stuff, the clowns need to shut the fuck up

you and i have paid a metric fuckton for janet and the ranch over the last 5 decades

before reading this article i would also note that no replacement was ever announced for the sr-71

... announced ....

https://www.twz.com/29543/the-visible-history-of-the-militarys-hunt-to-realize-an-invisible-aircraft

 

 

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Posted
27 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes. That appears to be exactly what they did. Fighters, tankers, bombers, naval assets, surveillance, and electronic warfare assets all had to be precisely timed and routed. Small individual deviations given the distances, scale, and timeframes involved would have been greatly amplified. This level of coordination is very impressive.

this isn't magic

radio voice silence does not equal global encrypted comms

Posted
51 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

How about you compare.  Compare to any other military operation in any administration.  Unless you're talking about a singular or final goal (like killing OBL, or obtaining the unconditional surrender of Japan), they don't use such insane hyperbole as this one (and even then, the statements are broader and not stated to be 100% self-aggrandizing.  Obama didn't say "only I could have led our military to kill Bin Laden.")

Nobody has a problem with an admin talking up a military operation.  Sure, it's what they do.  The issue here is that 1) nothing this admin is connected with is ever anything LESS than "the most amazing bestest ever, all of history is now eclipsed by what we just did," and 2) the results have to be "complete and total annihilation/obliteration," saying it's anything less is TREASON and DISLOYALTY TO OUR TROOPS.

It was a good mission, well-planned and well-run.  It likely had some real impact on Iran's nuclear program.  They could say that, and it would be like every other admin in history.

When you minimize and normalize the utterly insane and abnormal batshittery spouted by this clownshow, you only beclown yourself.

Got it.  So it all comes back to Trump like it always does.  Guess I need to go look at Twitter and see what he got all the CR'ers fired up about today.   I assume he's acting like a fucking buffoon like he always does.  I could give 2 shits what that idiot has to say about anything.  That doesn't mean the actual planning, coordination, etc. of the strike itself wasn't impressive.  It's ok to appreciate the American military without feeling like you are supporting the administration you know.    But yeah - I'll see my way back to the Stars or recruiting threads which can hopefully stay devoid of the rampant TDS that infects every fucking discussion on this board.

Posted
1 minute ago, Hagbard Celine said:

this isn't magic

radio voice silence does not equal global encrypted comms

What? When did I claim anything about magic? What are you on about? Communication was limited. Encrypting communication protects the contents of the message, but not the fact that a message was sent, from where it was sent, and in some instances to where it was. 

Posted
28 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

This level of coordination is very impressive.

to me it's not

it's 2025

it would have been impressive in 1975

we've been spending double-digit billions annually on black-world undisclosed technology for 75 years

Posted
2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Got it.  So it all comes back to Trump like it always does.  Guess I need to go look at Twitter and see what he got all the CR'ers fired up about today.   I assume he's acting like a fucking buffoon like he always does.  I could give 2 shits what that idiot has to say about anything.  That doesn't mean the actual planning, coordination, etc. of the strike itself wasn't impressive.  It's ok to appreciate the American military without feeling like you are supporting the administration you know.    But yeah - I'll see my way back to the Stars or recruiting threads which can hopefully stay devoid of the rampant TDS that infects every fucking discussion on this board.

Wait, we're you really expecting a conversation generally about the bombing of another country, which was done at the sole discretion of Trump, to not have political discussion? I don't think anyone in the thread is really demeaning the military. There is some discussion about how impressive this particular operation actual was. It can be true that the operation was tactically impressive, but not the most impressive operation ever as claimed by the administration, and potentially not even a strategically successful operation. You're a fool if you thought the later two points weren't going to be discussed here or shouldn't be discussed here. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Texas Fight said:

Here is your original post.  Shall we dissect it some more for you?  

Actually = as the truth or facts of a situation; really.

image.gif.8628eb72bd9e48a6bf61b970d52c6707.gif

Posted
4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What? When did I claim anything about magic? What are you on about? Communication was limited. Encrypting communication protects the contents of the message, but not the fact that a message was sent, from where it was sent, and in some instances to where it was. 

i fucked up - i should have typed "radio silence does not equal NO global encrypted comms" - i think we are agreeing with each other

Posted
3 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

to me it's not

it's 2025

it would have been impressive in 1975

we've been spending double-digit billions annually on black-world undisclosed technology for 75 years

This is a capability that literally no other nation has. That investment in resources, research, and training is what allowed an impressive feat to seem mundane. Your reasoning would seem to preclude anything from being described as impressive. It is lazy and pointless analysis.  

Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Got it.  So it all comes back to Trump like it always does.  Guess I need to go look at Twitter and see what he got all the CR'ers fired up about today.   I assume he's acting like a fucking buffoon like he always does.  I could give 2 shits what that idiot has to say about anything.  That doesn't mean the actual planning, coordination, etc. of the strike itself wasn't impressive.  It's ok to appreciate the American military without feeling like you are supporting the administration you know.    But yeah - I'll see my way back to the Stars or recruiting threads which can hopefully stay devoid of the rampant TDS that infects every fucking discussion on this board.

 

Trump says ridiculous BS.   People call out the BS

Skipper, TDS!!!! TDS!!!!!

idiotic.

Edited by Ted Lange
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

This is a capability that literally no other nation has. That investment in resources, research, and training is what allowed an impressive feat to seem mundane. Your reasoning would seem to preclude anything from being described as impressive. It is lazy and pointless analysis.  

the basis for your criticism is the word "seem"

that's lazy and pointless criticism

let me tell you what i would be impressed by

i would be impressed by deployment of bot drones that commanded the drivers of the escape trucks, in farsi, to stop, exit their vehicles, and give them 30 seconds to run before those trucks were destroyed, said drones then taking samples of the carcasses of the trucks, and then flying those samples to swiss or UN authorities in kuwait for testing

is that lazy enough for you?

Posted
13 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Got it.  So it all comes back to Trump like it always does.  Guess I need to go look at Twitter and see what he got all the CR'ers fired up about today.   I assume he's acting like a fucking buffoon like he always does.  I could give 2 shits what that idiot has to say about anything.  That doesn't mean the actual planning, coordination, etc. of the strike itself wasn't impressive.  It's ok to appreciate the American military without feeling like you are supporting the administration you know.    But yeah - I'll see my way back to the Stars or recruiting threads which can hopefully stay devoid of the rampant TDS that infects every fucking discussion on this board.

Dude.  You are the one who said this:

Quote

Yes, quite the shock that the U.S. is boasting about a complex military operations.   Never seen that before.  

You absolutely minimized and excused what the "U.S." has been saying here.  This is not standard "boasting."  This is not a discussion of a genuinely impressive strike, logistically and technically.  GTFO with that bullshit.  Nobody disagrees with THOSE kind of statements.

"THE GREATEST MOST COMPLEX MILITARY OPERATION IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!  COMPLETELY OBLITERATED IRAN'S ENTIRE NUCLEAR PROGRAM!"  Come the fuck on, man.  That hyperbolic bullshit is the insane rantings of a madman and his sycophants.  That is VERY DIFFERENT than how the United States has approached these things before because -- and follow me here, it's important -- we've never been governed by a literally insane pathologically lying narcissist, who has purged the entire executive branch of anyone who won't be yet another Salacious Crumb to his Jabba.

I appreciate the military.  I appreciate what it took to execute these strikes.  I am ripshit pissed that an insane narcissist and his crew can't help but lie and spout bullshit to ultimately aggrandize the One True King, NOT the thousands (yes, thousands) of well-trained, disciplined, and honorable personnel who actually made it happen. 

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Posted

It’s very funny that skipper got mad at me for calling him a conservative when he’s here downplaying how fucking weird and infantile Trump is. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Got it.  So it all comes back to Trump like it always does.  Guess I need to go look at Twitter and see what he got all the CR'ers fired up about today.   I assume he's acting like a fucking buffoon like he always does.  I could give 2 shits what that idiot has to say about anything.  That doesn't mean the actual planning, coordination, etc. of the strike itself wasn't impressive.  It's ok to appreciate the American military without feeling like you are supporting the administration you know.    But yeah - I'll see my way back to the Stars or recruiting threads which can hopefully stay devoid of the rampant TDS that infects every fucking discussion on this board.

god damn, do you ever do anything on this board besides follow this same little routine of yours? jesus christ what a fucking whiny bitch you are. just jump to your fucking obvious grievances next time and save us all the time of reading your dumbfuck posts trying to construct your strawman so you can finally say TDS and imply feigned superiority.

"rampant TDS" gives away the game skipper...even if you try to do a rex and say "he's a buffoon and i don't give a shit what that idiot says." anyone that actually feels that way would never use an absolutely idiotic term like "rampant TDS."

next time, just go eat another 50 donuts or some shit.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Skipper said:

Seriously.  Are people on this board serious trying to downplay an outstanding job by our military because of fucking politics.  JFC.

Are you a Realtor™️?

Edited by Sawbonz
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Posted

This was an awesomely executed super complex military action and all involved are to be congratulated. 
 

You’re a fucking moron if you think it is close to being the greatest ever. Or a bootlicker

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Posted

So it is becoming increasingly likely that Trump got played. Which is to be expected when you put a failed businessman in charge of our military. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Totally not a conservative skipper isn’t just following dear leader’s marching orders.

I guess he forgot that dear leader has a long history of downplaying outstanding work by our military because of fucking politics. 

 

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