You fucking Texans are loons

[Guest]

2 hours ago, YChang said:

I really doubt this is a liberal effort, lol really? I suppose maybe because telling lies is one of the tactics of fascism... get people used to them. 

Not the first thing to pop in my head but I don’t get what benefit a right wing group would derive out of this idiotic change. The fact that any group of people is ostensibly employed to come up with this shit is totally ridiculous. 

[Covri 6225]

6 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Not the first thing to pop in my head but I don’t get what benefit a right wing group would derive out of this idiotic change. The fact that any group of people is ostensibly employed to come up with this shit is totally ridiculous. 

They benefit from calling doubt on how bad slaves had it and therefore raising another generation of kids who don’t know what truly happened and don’t think it was that big of a deal. Look at the comments in this thread about not knowing how bad the ship ride over was or other parts of it. And the Texas board of education gets influenced heavily by the book manufacturers who want to print as few variations as possible so they take what other southern states want and push it into one agenda filled book. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Covri said:

They benefit from calling doubt on how bad slaves had it and therefore raising another generation of kids who don’t know what truly happened and don’t think it was that big of a deal. Look at the comments in this thread about not knowing how bad the ship ride over was or other parts of it. And the Texas board of education gets influenced heavily by the book manufacturers who want to print as few variations as possible so they take what other southern states want and push it into one agenda filled book. 

Quite a stretch. Perhaps that’s what people are angling for, but it’s beyond retarded, and won’t work.  Knowledge of slave ships’ is pervasive, or was, and I’m 43. That’s not changing. We love to bring up terrible behavior in our history, and textbooks’ movement to this not-so-subtle whitewash will be heavily ridiculed. Truth will be discovered. 

[atomheartbevo 89304]

6 hours ago, Goredho said:

You non-Texans will be loons soon enough.  Texas is the flagship red state, and a test bed for radical conservative policy. Everything you see that looks insane in Texas will be nationalized when they have a preponderance of federal power again.

You have to give it to the GQP -- they are strong willed, organized, cunning and consistent.  It is sad watching them politically lapping the democrats over and over.

3 hours ago, Satchel said:

I have friends who live in other states who feel sorry for me. It’s like they think I live in under apartheid.

Well...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/antiabortion-lawmakers-want-to-block-patients-from-crossing-state-lines/ar-AAZ0PNd

Quote

The National Association of Christian Lawmakers, an antiabortion organization led by Republican state legislators, has begun working with the authors of the Texas abortion ban to explore model legislation that would restrict people from crossing state lines for abortions, said Texas state representative Tom Oliverson (R), the charter chair of the group’s national legislative council. 

“Just because you jump across a state line doesn’t mean your home state doesn’t have jurisdiction,” said Peter Breen, vice president and senior counsel for the Thomas More Society. “It’s not a free abortion card when you drive across the state line.”

At least we have New Mexico, although I'm sure Hot Wheels will station National Guard and DPS Troopers at all crossings, tracking license plates and making women take a pregnancy test before they leave and after they come back.

[Covri 6225]

1 minute ago, Porterhouse said:

Quite a stretch. Perhaps that’s what people are angling for, but it’s beyond retarded, and won’t work.  Knowledge of slave ships’ is pervasive, or was, and I’m 43. That’s not changing. We love to bring up terrible behavior in our history, and textbooks’ movement to this not-so-subtle whitewash will be heavily ridiculed. Truth will be discovered. 

The fuck your talking about, Rex(😁)? That’s the thing they are trying to change by changing the lingo. I’m 40 (and a man) so we grew up probably on the same textbooks as you, but they are not like that anymore. And the whitewashing has been going on for at least the last two decades which is how we got here and why it’s completely on brand for that change to be made. Wake up and pay attention for fucks sake. Shit ain’t like it was 20-30 years ago.

[TwiceHorn 31084]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Is this a liberal depiction, insinuating slaves were just sleepy?

Lazy.

Sea travel in that age was pretty horrific for anyone, dangerous and uncomfortable.  Cooped up below deck just cubed it.

[tchookem 3899]

As someone that is a product of Oklahoma public education, I wonder how the Oklahoma schools will differentiate the trail of tears from slavery when (not if) this takes hold in Oklahoma.

Real Estate Reallocation Followed by Involuntary Winter Hiking.

[tchookem 3899]

As someone that is a product of Oklahoma public education, I wonder how the Oklahoma schools will differentiate the trail of tears from slavery when (not if) this takes hold in Oklahoma.

Real Estate Reallocation Followed by Involuntary Winter Hiking.

[tchookem 3899]

So this is the trickle down of the state's attempt to shield students from topics that make them "feel discomfort". I'm guessing the group that was discussing this and floated this language was trying to think of a way to define slavery for 2nd graders without making them feel discomfort. So here we are.

And Abbott wonders why teachers are leaving.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

6 hours ago, GenXer said:

As someone that is a product of Oklahoma public education, I wonder how the Oklahoma schools will differentiate the trail of tears from slavery when (not if) this takes hold in Oklahoma.

Same same. I think my Oklahoma history teacher spent more time discussing how the turnpikes were laid down over old cattle trails than on Native American removal.

 

With respect to the vanilla history, there are plenty of people who deny the Holocaust happened as well as other atrocities in the historical record. Connecting the dots between history and the present and then the concepts of empathy, responsibility, perspective, and choice is worthwhile in education. Some "leaders" choose to encourage that type of thinking while others choose to obfuscate.

[gmr548 16427]

Not sure about that anymore. We’re not as red as we once were. SBOE will never adopt this. I wonder what the fucking purpose of that even is?  Is this a liberal group suggesting this, insinuating slavery is too offensive for kids’ ears?
If a GQP initiative, why?  It serves no whitewashing purpose whatsoever. 

This is a troll bit, right? Are there people this stupid in the world?

[gmr548 16427]

Not sure about that anymore. We’re not as red as we once were. SBOE will never adopt this. I wonder what the fucking purpose of that even is?  Is this a liberal group suggesting this, insinuating slavery is too offensive for kids’ ears?
If a GQP initiative, why?  It serves no whitewashing purpose whatsoever. 

This is a troll bit, right? Are there people this stupid in the world?

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

This is a troll bit, right? Are there people this stupid in the world?

Never been to texags? Some folks on here would be more at home there. It’s baffling.

[Pancho 44181]

Confirmed as others were doubting that lady’s teeet:

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Man, poor Pharoah Ramses is going to be so pissed that he didn't think of this.

[Sawbonz 27296]

19 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Confirmed as others were doubting that lady’s teeet:

 

Someone needs to call these motherfuckers out by name

[ChiTownDoc 21070]

8 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Did anyone else visit a plantation at some point as a kid and then later realize how fucked up that was? We should really be calling them slave labor camps.

Wife and I love history and we used to visit plantations - never in a 'yay, let's pound some mint juleps and check out these cool old farms' way but, still, we did visit them and try to learn a little bit about how things were.  But the last one somewhere outside of Charleston was the final straw.  The white washing of how things were and the jovial mood when showing tourists around was way too much.  I literally looked at my wife and we both gave a what the fuck look and just left.  Shit is disgusting.  I'm sure there's many that teach the history of what happened there the right way but holy shit some of those god damn places should just be burned.  I know if you don't learn about history, you're bound to repeat it, but you're not learning shit the way many of those are set up.  Sorry, rant over...

Edited July 1, 2022 by ChiTownDoc

[Degenerate Gardner 4075]

33 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Someone needs to call these motherfuckers out by name

We are WAYYYY past that. It would only mean a merit badge in 2022 Texas.

[TexPx 2309]

Same same. I think my Oklahoma history teacher spent more time discussing how the turnpikes were laid down over old cattle trails than on Native American removal.
 
With respect to the vanilla history, there are plenty of people who deny the Holocaust happened as well as other atrocities in the historical record. Connecting the dots between history and the present and then the concepts of empathy, responsibility, perspective, and choice is worthwhile in education. Some "leaders" choose to encourage that type of thinking while others choose to obfuscate.

They didn’t teach y’all about the Osage murders or Black Wall Street?

[tchookem 3899]

Someone needs to call these motherfuckers out by name

Uh, Dan Patrick, Greg Abbott... this is more about people trying to work with their mandates than some whitewashing asshole in the TEA. Not that there aren't plenty of assholes in TEA.

[royiv 9124]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Lazy.

Sea travel in that age was pretty horrific for anyone, dangerous and uncomfortable.  Cooped up below deck just cubed it.

Right. Because the accommodations across the sea were the biggest problem.

[B00M 6248]

9 hours ago, elfenix said:

i entertained doing my best nolan ryan

Beating the shit out of anyone that stepped up?

 

[B00M 6248]

Double Penetration

Edited July 1, 2022 by B00M

[Walser 1102]

1 hour ago, TexPx said:

They didn’t teach y’all about the Osage murders or Black Wall Street?

I've lived in Texas the overwhelming majority of my life but had the bad luck of living in Oklahoma when I was 7 for less than a year. Second grade was state history grade at the time.

I don't remember much because I was drunk. But they sure as hell didn't mention derogatory history. The only thing I remember was making an Osage warrior shield in arts and crafts which was kind of cool for a kid honestly.

[High Plains Drifter 10961]

22 minutes ago, B00M said:

Beating the shit out of anyone that stepped up?

 

 

who was that player that fucked around and found out?

 

 

[High Plains Drifter 10961]

2 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Wife and I love history and we used to visit plantations - never in a 'yay, let's pound some mint juleps and check out these cool old farms' way but, still, we did visit them and try to learn a little bit about how things were.  But the last one somewhere outside of Charleston was the final straw.  The white washing of how things were and the jovial mood when showing tourists around was way too much.  I literally looked at my wife and we both gave a what the fuck look and just left.  Shit is disgusting.  I'm sure there's many that teach the history of what happened there the right way but holy shit some of those god damn places should just be burned.  I know if you don't learn about history, you're bound to repeat it, but you're not learning shit the way many of those are set up.  Sorry, rant over...

 

 

"I did my best."

 

 

[ChiTownDoc 21070]

9 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

who was that player that fucked around and found out?

 

 

Even as a kid who didn’t really follow baseball I remember that shit.  Robin Ventura.  Got it real good. 

[Pods 7503]

12 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

who was that player that fucked around and found out?

 

 

Robin Ventura

Edited July 1, 2022 by Pods
Saw Chitown just beat me to the response.

[Biff Tannen 45439]

44 minutes ago, royiv said:

Right. Because the accommodations across the sea were the biggest problem.

Check your sarcasm meter

[GenXer 2766]

4 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Same same. I think my Oklahoma history teacher spent more time discussing how the turnpikes were laid down over old cattle trails than on Native American removal.

9th grade Oklahoma state history didn’t even mention the Cherokee tribe suing the US in the SCOTUS, winning the case, and Andrew Jackson sending the US military to force the Cherokees to the trail. I have hopes that this story will someday be set to film like Amistad.
 

From an educational standpoint, this dovetails really well with 8th grade civics and the three branches of federal government. Specifically, how what Jackson did was illegal. There’s lessons that can be applied to modern day executive reach. But, I have no idea what’s taught in Oklahoma (if anything) these days.
 

2 hours ago, TexPx said:

They didn’t teach y’all about the Osage murders or Black Wall Street?

It pisses me off now but there was no mention of this my OK state history.

The thing they taught that pisses me off is the “five civilized tribes.” Oh, you mean the five subjugated tribes - Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, Seminole. I can still remember them  40 years later. I guess the grooming worked.

[ChiTownDoc 21070]

6 minutes ago, GenXer said:

9th grade Oklahoma state history didn’t even mention the Cherokee tribe suing the US in the SCOTUS, winning the case, and Andrew Jackson sending the US military to force the Cherokees to the trail. I have hopes that this story will someday be set to film like Amistad.
 

From an educational standpoint, this dovetails really well with 8th grade civics and the three branches of federal government. Specifically, how what Jackson did was illegal. There’s lessons that can be applied to modern day executive reach. But, I have no idea what’s taught in Oklahoma (if anything) these days.
 

It pisses me off now but there was no mention of this my OK state history.

The thing they taught that pisses me off is the “five civilized tribes.” Oh, you mean the five subjugated tribes - Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, Seminole. I can still remember them  40 years later. I guess the grooming worked.

Yeah that’s all terrible but it’s even more mind boggling there was zero mention of the Tulsa race riots or Black Wall Street when I took OK history in 1995ish.  
 

Oklahoma AND Texas suck.  

[atomheartbevo 89304]

1 hour ago, Walser said:

had the bad luck of living in Oklahoma when I was 7 for less than a year. Second grade was state history grade at the time.

I don't remember much because I was drunk. But they sure as hell didn't mention derogatory history.

[Born to Run 6420]

Yeah that’s all terrible but it’s even more mind boggling there was zero mention of the Tulsa race riots or Black Wall Street when I took OK history in 1995ish.  
 
Oklahoma AND Texas suck.  

I was an American Studies Major at UT and I only recently learned of Tulsa...
It's frightening, the blind spots.

Study of Texas History is a depressing saga of corruption, greed, and wasting resources for minimal gain: plus every imaginable grift, environmental fuckery for a few bucks, and unimaginable civil rights disasters for a few penny's today despite pain tomorrow. If not for joining the union, we would be a polluted smoldering shithole. I mean more than we are already. Washington has always tried to save us from ourselves, we laugh and illegally ship oil etc and bitch about those trying to help us from ourselves.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

11 hours ago, GenXer said:

As someone that is a product of Oklahoma public education, I wonder how the Oklahoma schools will differentiate the trail of tears from slavery when (not if) this takes hold in Oklahoma.

 

5 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Same same. I think my Oklahoma history teacher spent more time discussing how the turnpikes were laid down over old cattle trails than on Native American removal.

 

With respect to the vanilla history, there are plenty of people who deny the Holocaust happened as well as other atrocities in the historical record. Connecting the dots between history and the present and then the concepts of empathy, responsibility, perspective, and choice is worthwhile in education. Some "leaders" choose to encourage that type of thinking while others choose to obfuscate.

Let's also hope that they cover the despicable history of the Choctaw nations connections with slavery as well. It took over a year after Juneteenth for them to free their slaves, and many of the descendents today are still struggling to be be recognized as members.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

21 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Yeah that’s all terrible but it’s even more mind boggling there was zero mention of the Tulsa race riots or Black Wall Street when I took OK history in 1995ish.  
 

Oklahoma AND Texas suck.  

Yeah, I was blown away when I read about the Tulsa race riots a few years ago as an adult. How was this not taught in grade school history? I mean, I guess I know the why, but the how it was going to just fade into oblivion part is crazy. If it wasn't for HBO, it would still be less known than it was.

[henrygandorf 29169]

8 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

Quite a stretch. Perhaps that’s what people are angling for, but it’s beyond retarded, and won’t work.  Knowledge of slave ships’ is pervasive, or was, and I’m 43. That’s not changing. We love to bring up terrible behavior in our history, and textbooks’ movement to this not-so-subtle whitewash will be heavily ridiculed. Truth will be discovered. 

[WhatTheBuck 28696]

4 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Yeah, I was blown away when I read about the Tulsa race riots a few years ago as an adult. How was this not taught in grade school history? I mean, I guess I know the why, but the how it was going to just fade into oblivion part is crazy. If it wasn't for HBO, it would still be less known than it was.

I think calling it the “Tulsa race riots” implies that there were two sides in the battle, both equally guilty for the conflict. Calling it a “massacre” is, I think, more appropriate. White people attacked black people without provocation. It wasn’t a riot. It was an assault, pure and simple. There were some black guys who had military experience and tried to defend their community. But the white folks were the aggressors.

It seems a lot like Russia invading Ukraine and calling it a “special military operation.” No, it’s war, a war of choice, and Russia is the invading army. In both cases, one side is wholly responsible for the hostilities. And the other side never posed the aggressors any threat other than that the aggressors just didn’t like it that the targets of their aggression weren’t under their control.

[Bojack 2073]

5 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Yeah, I was blown away when I read about the Tulsa race riots a few years ago as an adult. How was this not taught in grade school history? I mean, I guess I know the why, but the how it was going to just fade into oblivion part is crazy. If it wasn't for HBO, it would still be less known than it was.

Had anyone on this board heard of the Tulsa massacre before the Watchmen series a few years ago?  That's where I first learned about it.   

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

8 hours ago, TexPx said:

They didn’t teach y’all about the Osage murders or Black Wall Street?

 

6 hours ago, GenXer said:

The thing they taught that pisses me off is the “five civilized tribes.” Oh, you mean the five subjugated tribes - Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, Seminole. I can still remember them  40 years later. I guess the grooming worked.

I agree because that is how it was taught to me as well.

5 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Let's also hope that they cover the despicable history of the Choctaw nations connections with slavery as well. It took over a year after Juneteenth for them to free their slaves, and many of the descendents today are still struggling to be be recognized as members.

The Choctaw lands were originally in Mississippi and Alabama and the relationship between Native Americans, Freedmen (sorry for using outdated terms), Slaves, Whites, Mixed Race, was very complicated and post war it got really really complicated due to the differences between how Native Americans viewed relationships versus the Dawes Rolls and how Whites and the Federal Government viewed relationships, and then adding in the increasing demands placed upon persons by the passing of various Jim Crow laws. It doesn't excuse the way things went, but my own family history is a turbulent reminder of the advantages and disadvantages of how those in power view 'other.' I have a triracial family tree on one side of the family that goes back to pre-revolutionary war times.

From an educational standpoint, elementary school students don't have to get into the weeds with the Dawes Commission, but it would not be amiss to illustrate the different ways in which Native Americans and Whites viewed 'slaves' and 'captives' and tribal membership.

 

Even the schools in wealthier districts were not known for using updated materials. I can't speak for others, but I was taught OK history in 9th grade and our text was a slim weathered tome with black and white images that looked like it came from a rummage bin at a Friends Of The Library booksale. I did some digging just now, looking for it online and I believe it was Harlow's Oklahoma History. Here is a little blurb about Victor Harlow from the Oklahoma Historical Site:

Quote

Founding the Harlow Publishing Company in Oklahoma City in 1915, he used his political contacts to win state government printing contracts. Until the 1960s the company was the only general publishing house in the Southwest, specifically a leading publisher of textbooks and historical works. He edited the biographical work Oklahoma Leaders (1928) and wrote Oklahoma, Its Origins and Development (1934). Harlow also penned Jesus the Man (1924), Jesus' Jerusalem Expedition (1936), and The Destroyer of Jesus (1953).

I don't know what the last edition was, but I'm fairly confident that the one I used was from the 1970s or so  and way out of date.

 

Sorry not sorry for the derail.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

16 minutes ago, Bojack said:

Had anyone on this board heard of the Tulsa massacre before the Watchmen series a few years ago?  That's where I first learned about it.   

Yes, but I grew up in Tulsa. Did not learn about it in public school however.

[Celery Man 20832]

Never heard about the Slocum Massacre until around when people started talking about the Tulsa massacre

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slocum_massacre

 

of course for the most Texan brand of genocide you might look at the beloved Texas Rangers Ave what they really got up to near the border. Here’s one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porvenir_massacre_(1918)

[Celery Man 20832]

For more modern, I’m still sad that we haven’t seen a film made out of Nate Blakeslee’s Tulia. Corrupt ranger in the ….. 80s or 90s railroaded a bunch of innocent black men. Really good book, terrible story. I can’t remember Tom Coleman’s exact motivation but a bunch of the guys took plea deals (knowing they would lose the case) and remained in prison even after his whole sting operation was proven to be fraudulent.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Celery Man

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

I remember reading about Porvenir some time after we moved here and then a few years ago there was a flurry of articles after the documentary about it came out. Sometimes one wonders just how many similar events in our past will never come to light.

[Celery Man 20832]

I read this article on it, which was exactly the kind of stuff I actually expect from Texas

https://www.texasobserver.org/who-writes-history-the-fight-to-commemorate-a-massacre-by-the-texas-rangers/

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

11 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I read this article on it, which was exactly the kind of stuff I actually expect from Texas

https://www.texasobserver.org/who-writes-history-the-fight-to-commemorate-a-massacre-by-the-texas-rangers/

Have you read this book?

I think that might be where I first read of it. Our local library has a lot of Texas books.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4965]

2 hours ago, Bojack said:

Had anyone on this board heard of the Tulsa massacre before the Watchmen series a few years ago?  That's where I first learned about it.   

I saw something about it on reddit a few years before the Watchmen came out and read into it then. I was blown away that something that momentous was basically just ignored in school.

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I think calling it the “Tulsa race riots” implies that there were two sides in the battle, both equally guilty for the conflict. Calling it a “massacre” is, I think, more appropriate. White people attacked black people without provocation. It wasn’t a riot. It was an assault, pure and simple. There were some black guys who had military experience and tried to defend their community. But the white folks were the aggressors.

It seems a lot like Russia invading Ukraine and calling it a “special military operation.” No, it’s war, a war of choice, and Russia is the invading army. In both cases, one side is wholly responsible for the hostilities. And the other side never posed the aggressors any threat other than that the aggressors just didn’t like it that the targets of their aggression weren’t under their control.

Not that i disagree, but I think it is called that by some in part because there were race riots all over the country around that time. Most of them were more properly described as riots, however, as there weren't very many deaths. 

[bolverk 29261]

2 hours ago, Bojack said:

Had anyone on this board heard of the Tulsa massacre before the Watchmen series a few years ago?  That's where I first learned about it.   

I first learned of it when I was consulting on a community development type of project in Tulsa around 2010 when they toured our team around town and showed us what is left of the neighborhood just north of the freeway.

[fattyflattie 4636]

8 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I first learned of it when I was consulting on a community development type of project in Tulsa around 2010 when they toured our team around town and showed us what is left of the neighborhood just north of the freeway.

I learned of it on this site (or the scat version) about 5-7 years ago. I remember becoming upset because I made it through college without being taught about it, then seeing many here with a better education learning about it later in life, which was still upsetting. 

[Bojack 2073]

2 hours ago, Celery Man said:

For more modern, I’m still sad that we haven’t seen a film made out of Nate Blakeslee’s Tulia. Corrupt ranger in the ….. 80s or 90s railroaded a bunch of innocent black men. Really good book, terrible story. I can’t remember Tom Coleman’s exact motivation but a bunch of the guys took plea deals (knowing they would lose the case) and remained in prison even after his whole sting operation was proven to be fraudulent.

I heard about Tulia in 2001, I think. It got decent media coverage there for a while including on 60 Minutes. The victims were pardoned back in 2003, after they had served as many as 4 years. Coleman was convicted of perjury and sentenced to 10 years probation with no prison time whatsoever.  The victims received modest settlements but still have those convictions on their records.

https://seoklaw.com/legal-news/tulia-texas-a-story-of-injustice-and-mass-incarceration-2/

[mchookem 15876]

12 hours ago, TexPx said:

They didn’t teach y’all about the Osage murders or Black Wall Street?

i first heard of the Osage murders on surly, i think bc it came up in a movie thread that Scorcese and DiCaprio were making Killers of the Flower Moon into a movie.

so i read the book and was like 'holy shit how have i never heard of this before??' i was floored!