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Posted
5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I understand what you're saying, but he's more than an irrelevant pawn because:

  1. He, in fact, did force the party to go in a populist direction that its leaders didn't want to go in.
  2. He and his family control the entire party apparatus.
  3. He's invited the worst elements of humanity into the party and given them power.
  4. He's both their avatar and their shield by sucking up all the hate. Without him, I think the actual party's policies and platform would get more attention from the normies. 

In other words, imagine today's GOP if Trump never was on the political scene. Sure, the Republicans have always had little fascist toadies in their midst, but he's the one who promises them the keys to the kingdom. And, yes, he's not the brains behind it all, but he is what has inspired them.

Now, if Trump were to disappear today, I believe that the fascists who've taken over the party would still control it, but there would be no suitable replacement for Trump as a message-bearer who could bring in the necessary votes.

 

We are saying the same thing. I think the votes are there regardless of trump. The American People are so filled with evil and greed they can't help themselves. 

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Posted
35 minutes ago, immamac said:

We are saying the same thing. I think the votes are there regardless of trump. The American People are so filled with evil and greed they can't help themselves. 

Its gonna get real messy and shitty abroad and we're gonna be the ones responsible for letting fascists gain control. 

We saw the fucking attack on January 6th and did NOTHING AT FUCKING ALL. Because if anything was done, we would be just as bad as trump. And so now, we get trump. 

Watch some band of brothers to see how that goes for the fascists and the citizens of that fascist country - willing participants or no

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, immamac said:

We are saying the same thing. I think the votes are there regardless of trump. The American People are so filled with evil and greed they can't help themselves. 

I disagree. It's professional wrestling to tens of millions of the MAGA faithful. It's good guys and bad guys and ridiculous plotlines. It's performative Internet and culture war bravado. It's wanting to be a part of a "movement" and being on the inside of all the conspiracies. A lot of them are historically disillusioned non-voters that aren't showing up for anyone but Trump. All of my wealthy Republican friends were primed and ready to anoint Ron DeSantis in 2021. How'd that go? You can't replace Stone Cold Steve Austin with Shane McMahon.

MAGA is angry, but they have Wi-Fi and an iPhone. They'll just stay home in their information silos rather than vote for generic GOP candidate for President. No Trump, no MAGA. No MAGA, not enough votes for the GOP power brokers to wreck their havoc.

Edited by aggie08
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Posted
1 hour ago, immamac said:

I don't know that despair is the right word. Neither is panic. 

After seeing the reaction from MAGA post assassination attempt it's really just more like I've given up on the future of America as a place where merit, or strong principles will lead to success. It's really hard to look at the series of events this weekend and regardless of success on the assassination attempt how the exact same things would be playing out. Trump has become a completely irrelevant pawn, could have been his head or just his ear getting shot. He is being controlled and used now and it's so blatantly obvious. 

He's being used to dismantle the judicial system, the very fabric of our country. He's not the one doing any of this, these are willing participants who are actively destroying our country. He doesn't possess the ability to plan or indoctrinate these people, these people have always wanted to destroy America. 

There is a reason Russia puts so much time and effort into disinformation and chaos through social channels - IT WORKS!  They know they can't compete with us militarily, so they spend literally TRILLIONS less than us to get a far better ROI.  This was a brilliant strategy to bring us down and we have fallen for it hook, line and sinker... 

Trump is the pawn that Putin needed to make all of this work. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

There is a reason Russia puts so much time and effort into disinformation and chaos through social channels - IT WORKS!  They know they can't compete with us militarily, so they spend literally TRILLIONS less than us to get a far better ROI.  This was a brilliant strategy to bring us down and we have fallen for it hook, line and sinker... 

Trump is the pawn that Putin needed to make all of this work. 

middle aged white guys have been buttered up by acolytes of ivy lee for decades

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Posted
14 hours ago, Constant said:

Wish we could go back to 2016 and fix this shit. 

I mean, there's always that question of if one has a time machine,  would one go back and kill Hitler....

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Posted
7 hours ago, bolverk said:

Now, if Trump were to disappear today, I believe that the fascists who've taken over the party would still control it, but there would be no suitable replacement for Trump as a message-bearer who could bring in the necessary votes.

 

Yuuuup.  

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Posted
12 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

Seeing the classified documents case against Trump dismissed has sent me to a level of despair about this country that is lower than it has ever been during my lifetime. This is a truly screwed up country. 

His actions were illegal, unconscionable, and immoral. And he faces no consequences at all, and worse yet 48% of the population is too stupid to realize he is traitor to this country. It’s just unbelievable. 

It has sent me to a level of pushing up the timeline to find a new country to be a citizen of.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

It has sent me to a level of pushing up the timeline to find a new country to be a citizen of.

Me as well. I am seriously having a talk at work. With most of my team in London, relocation makes a lot of sense. I want to see if they’d let me do an expat package.

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Posted
23 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Me as well. I am seriously having a talk at work. With most of my team in London, relocation makes a lot of sense. I want to see if they’d let me do an expat package.

I would absolutely do that and hopefully you get a positive response from them. América has completely and utterly lost its way in a fashion that it cannot come back from. Democrats are not going to get in the pit with these vipers and fight dirty. I have not and will not change my stance on Biden winning in November, but seeing this done by someone as qualified to be a judge as a homeless guy pissing on subway walls has broken something in me. 

Posted
7 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

You guys don't get it. If the US falls, what do you think happens next? He pulls us out of NATO, the far right gain foot holds in every EU country and the UK, factions occur, Russia invades, and Europe is at war again. The flight is here. If we don't stop it here, the whole world goes down with us. There will be no safe havens.

Now put your big boy and girl pants on, stop saying it's over, get a fucking backbone, and let's go fight these motherfuckers (at the ballot box) and send them all back to the shame filled basements that they emerged from! 

There are more of us than them. If we donate, organize, and fucking vote, we will beat them again. Trump is a fucking loser who has lost everything he has ever been involved with. He will lose in November. He will go to prison. He will die in a jail cell.

Stop feeling sorry for yourselves. There is no ledge. There is no country to run off to. No one is coming to save us. We have to do it. It's time to stand up and take our country back.

I understand the sentiment and appreciate what you’re trying to do.  But we’re fucked.  It’s over.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

You guys don't get it. If the US falls, what do you think happens next? He pulls us out of NATO, the far right gain foot holds in every EU country and the UK, factions occur, Russia invades, and Europe is at war again. The flight is here. If we don't stop it here, the whole world goes down with us. There will be no safe havens.

Now put your big boy and girl pants on, stop saying it's over, get a fucking backbone, and let's go fight these motherfuckers (at the ballot box) and send them all back to the shame filled basements that they emerged from! 

There are more of us than them. If we donate, organize, and fucking vote, we will beat them again. Trump is a fucking loser who has lost everything he has ever been involved with. He will lose in November. He will go to prison. He will die in a jail cell.

Stop feeling sorry for yourselves. There is no ledge. There is no country to run off to. No one is coming to save us. We have to do it. It's time to stand up and take our country back.

Tell it to the Dems.  They're worthless pussies in the face of this attack on democracy. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

You guys don't get it. If the US falls, what do you think happens next? He pulls us out of NATO, the far right gain foot holds in every EU country and the UK, factions occur, Russia invades, and Europe is at war again. The flight is here. If we don't stop it here, the whole world goes down with us. There will be no safe havens.

Now put your big boy and girl pants on, stop saying it's over, get a fucking backbone, and let's go fight these motherfuckers (at the ballot box) and send them all back to the shame filled basements that they emerged from! 

There are more of us than them. If we donate, organize, and fucking vote, we will beat them again. Trump is a fucking loser who has lost everything he has ever been involved with. He will lose in November. He will go to prison. He will die in a jail cell.

Stop feeling sorry for yourselves. There is no ledge. There is no country to run off to. No one is coming to save us. We have to do it. It's time to stand up and take our country back.

I was here last week. It's obvious that the flaw in your logic is the we part. There's a significant portion of the we who actually want the country gone. Who thinks Europe should be at war. Who thinks that the whole world is part of a new world order and want it destroyed. 

There is no taking our country back. It hasn't gone anywhere, the fact that you think we have to take it back is indicative of the problem, the population has become unhinged from reality. Fueled by an out of control debt economy which is built on leveraged assets that make no sense. The American public is too weak minded, greed filled, and envious to hold anyone accountable inclusive of themselves. The current state of the country is one devoid of any accountability for anyone at any level. 

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Posted

Like I don't think you understand how bad it truly is. These people can't be forced out of the positions they have been appointed to because the mechanisms in place to allow for accountability have been hijacked by just enough of the representation to not let us land the fucking plane and just let it run out of fuel and crash after. 

If Biden wins again it will change very little and that's what the issue is. The issue is that America has destroyed itself and insists on destroying itself because people cannot find it in themselves to have personal accountability. 

$45 million dollars a month in swing states. Not as an infrastructure investment. Not as a way to empower people to create economic stimulus, not as a way to create lasting change in a region in dire need. None of those, it's to buy a fucking election and coerce an undereducated, greed filled, envious population to vote for a bought puppet who will whore out the productive part of the population to extract any and all remaining value to give to about 500 people. 

Check the fuck in to reality. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, immamac said:

That mechanism of accountability exists only in the figment of our imaginations as it can be easily bought because no one has any fucking backbone

[Laughs in Chief Justice Roberts]

Posted
4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If you wanted to perfectly capture how fucked we are, from top to bottom, that paragraph does it.

That said....hell yes.  Fight like hell, fight to the bitter end.  Whether it turns out like the Alamo or siege of Jadotville...or whether it's a turn-the-tide moment like Midway....who the fuck knows?  But we won't even have the chance to find out if we don't fight.  Vote.  Fundraise.  Attack the MAGAs: demoralize them, do all you can to get them to stay home.  Leave it all on the field.

Can we fast forward to the Marianas? 

Posted
10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If you wanted to perfectly capture how fucked we are, from top to bottom, that paragraph does it.

That said....hell yes.  Fight like hell, fight to the bitter end.  Whether it turns out like the Alamo or siege of Jadotville...or whether it's a turn-the-tide moment like Midway....who the fuck knows?  But we won't even have the chance to find out if we don't fight.  Vote.  Fundraise.  Attack the MAGAs: demoralize them, do all you can to get them to stay home.  Leave it all on the field.

Letcha nuts hang.

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Posted
34 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Does anyone seriously believe that Elon Musk is actually going to fulfill a promise he's made for the first time in his life?

Well, it's a promise to do something awful, destructive to the fabric of our society and the future of life on earth.

So...yes.

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Posted
36 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Does anyone seriously believe that Elon Musk is actually going to fulfill a promise he's made for the first time in his life?

no. and he is taking a huge risk pissing off his employees too. imagine working for him and knowing he can throw that kind of money away at a fascist traitor. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Imagine being a major shareholder of Tesla and watching your CEO pledge hundreds of millions of dollars towards a candidate that wants to get rid of EV subsidies and have gas subsidies instead.

Imagine being a major shareholder of Tesla and approving his fucking pay package, which likely is what emboldens him to say shit like this.

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Posted

its time to get rid of my S. my wife was thinking of getting an X. but no more. fuck that guy and whatever the fuck he does going forward. he has completely destroyed Tesla's brand and alienated his entire customer base.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Longhorn94 said:

its time to get rid of my S. my wife was thinking of getting an X. but no more. fuck that guy and whatever the fuck he does going forward. he has completely destroyed Tesla's brand and alienated his entire customer base.

Teslas are no longer the best out there anyway

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Posted
1 hour ago, C-Man said:

Contrast the glacial speed of Trump's cases with that of Senator Menendez, who was charged, tried and convicted in roughly the amount of time it takes Trump to send a rage tweet from his shitter.

(D) vs (R)

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Posted
22 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

He makes them feel better about being massive pieces of shit, because he, like them, is a massive piece of shit. Like calls to like.

It really is as simple as this.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, C-Man said:

Contrast the glacial speed of Trump's cases with that of Senator Menendez, who was charged, tried and convicted in roughly the amount of time it takes Trump to send a rage tweet from his shitter.

Point of fact.  The illegal acts of which Menendez was convicted occurred in 2018 and 2019, mostly, and he was already targeted, having been indicted and tried in 2017 for different acts.  Warrants were executed for the most recent criminality in 2022.

The trial itself is relatively straightforward, involved no classified information and no defenses arising from his status as a Senator.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
12 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Can’t wait until they say he doesn’t have standing since he is ruled to not have been properly appointed. 

11th Circuit will probably whack her pee-pee.

Wait...

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Posted
On 7/16/2024 at 2:13 PM, C-Man said:

Contrast the glacial speed of Trump's cases with that of Senator Menendez, who was charged, tried and convicted in roughly the amount of time it takes Trump to send a rage tweet from his shitter.

It's like we're already a defacto fascist state. 

Posted

According to this, it's going to be hard to have Cannon removed from the case no matter what 11th court says about this brain-dead dismissal.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/18/politics/aileen-cannon-removal-trump-classified-documents/index.html

Quote

Even after a year of exasperating proceedings that featured several breaks from normal judicial procedure and that culminated in a shock ruling dismissing the classified documents indictment against Donald Trump, prosecutors would face deeply unfavorable odds at getting Judge Aileen Cannon removed from the case if it is ever revived.

In theory, special counsel Jack Smith could ask the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals – which oversees federal appeals from Florida – to reassign the case to a different judge as part of his appeal of Cannon’s ruling to dismiss the charges against the former president.

But several veteran attorneys who practice in that circuit told CNN that the appeals court would be unlikely to grant such a request, even though Cannon’s justification for throwing out the prosecution was widely panned by legal scholars.

“What we have here are adverse rulings and her not resolving the case quickly,” said Jon Sale, a criminal defense attorney in Florida who served on the Watergate prosecution team. “The adverse rulings are not a basis for removal, and timing is in the broad discretion of the trial court.”

That means Smith’s best possible outcome might be that the appeals court reverses Cannon’s ruling invalidating his appointment, the Supreme Court lets that stand and several months from now – assuming Trump is not elected to the White House this November – the criminal case can pick up right where it left off, in front of Cannon, a Trump-appointed judge in Fort Pierce, Florida, who has shown no eagerness to get the proceedings to trial.

“There really just is no record supporting her removal from the case. They just don’t have any malfeasance to point to,” said CNN legal analyst Michael Moore, who served as an Obama-appointed US attorney in Georgia, another state covered by the 11th Circuit. “She’s been careful to not blindly issue rulings … and that has kept the record really shallow when looking for a removal rationale.”

Cannon’s conclusion – that Congress had not given Attorney General Merrick Garland the power to appoint a special counsel like Smith and that, furthermore, Smith’s office was funded in an unlawful fashion – went against rulings from federal district and appellate judges across the country that have upheld the Justice Department’s use of other special counsels.

It also was the capstone of her highly scrutinized handling of the historic Trump case, in which she was known to drag out the pretrial proceedings, entertain long-shot legal theories offered by the former president and issue cumbersome orders that flummoxed lawyers on both sides of the case.

Well before Monday’s ruling, outside cheerleaders of the special counsel, including many Trump critics, were calling on Smith to seek Cannon’s removal from the case. But this is the first real opportunity to ask for the intervention of the 11th Circuit.

That appeals court, while conservative, previously tore apart Cannon’s handling of a 2022 lawsuit brought by Trump that sought to undermine the documents investigation, overturning her decision to appoint a “special master” to review the materials seized from Mar-a-Lago.

Justice Clarence Thomas gives Cannon additional cover

Making the calculus even more difficult for Smith is that he is appealing a ruling of Cannon’s that was meticulously written and thoroughly thought through and put forward a legal rationale that, just this month, was similarly laid out by a sitting Supreme Court justice.

At 93 pages, the new opinion was far more in depth and comprehensive than the more surface-level rulings Cannon had previously issued that showed sympathy to Trump’s arguments while rejecting his other bids to throw out the case.

“I don’t think this rises to the level of an order that the court would necessitate reassignment to another judge,” said Jon May, a Florida criminal defense attorney who called Cannon’s opinion dismissing the case “wrong” but “not bonkers.”’

Cannon’s ruling followed arguments laid out by Justice Clarence Thomas in a concurrence he wrote in the Supreme Court’s presidential immunity case, in which the conservative majority said that Trump had some immunity in Smith’s separate case alleging 2020 election subversion.

None of Thomas’ eight colleagues signed on to his solo concurring opinion, as Smith noted in court filings last week arguing to Cannon that the concurrence should not bear on the classified documents case.

Thomas, it’s worth noting, oversees emergency matters arising out of the 11th Circuit – something that appellate court will be “mindful” of when it handles Smith’s appeal, according to CNN legal analyst Michael Moore.

“Abuse of discretion is a typical appellate standard of review,” Moore said, referring to the standard the appeals court would likely use to reverse Cannon’s dismissal ruling, “but not a reason for removal.”

Little precedent to look at

Cannon has no doubt been antagonistic toward the special counsel’s classified documents case.

She’s taken swipes at the Smith team in previous rulings and suggested that fringe Trump theories that would hamstring the prosecution could play a role in an eventual trial. The way she has managed her docket has kept the case at a snail’s pace, playing into Trump’s strategy of delay.

However, before Monday, her decisions on major motions mostly sided with the prosecutors – even as she weaved in jabs at their tactics – and she had avoided ruling on some of the most contentious issues in the case.

While Cannon’s approach to the case has attracted criticism, the current circumstances don’t resemble past scenarios that have seen trial judges reassigned by the 11th Circuit.

“This situation is so exceedingly rare, you don’t really have precedent to look at,” May said. “You have plenty of cases where there is concern for the defendant, and there’s egregious orders and egregious behavior.”

On the occasions that a judge has been removed from a case by the 11th Circuit, it’s often because the judge has heard evidence or a sentencing recommendation that shouldn’t have been heard, according to Don Samuel, a criminal defense attorney in Georgia who wrote an in-depth book about the 11th Circuit’s criminal law jurisprudence. Or it has happened when the judge has “repeatedly” refused to comply with the appeals court’s instructions on a particular issue in a case, he said.

“But reassignment just because the district judge made an erroneous decision?” Samuel said. “That is virtually unheard of.”

 

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Posted
Just now, immamac said:

So the cool part about this is there will be literally nothing to appeal when they get the conviction. 

I'd put the chances of conviction at less than 25% at this point. That might be high too. This case goes away forever if Trump wins and seems he's pegged around 65% or higher to win in November today. Lot can change between now and then, of course, but he has to lose that election AND then you're facing an antagonistic judge in the documents case.

Posted

I still think Biden should pick a half dozen or so of those documents, declassify them, and publish them for everyone to see.  It would have to be done with some finesse -- nothing that would compromise national security but alarming enough to say "and these were the benign cases".

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Posted
47 minutes ago, C-Man said:

“I don’t think this rises to the level of an order that the court would necessitate reassignment to another judge,” said Jon May, a Florida criminal defense attorney who called Cannon’s opinion dismissing the case “wrong” but “not bonkers.”’

No it was bonkers. Jon May sounds like an idiot. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, C-Man said:

According to this, it's going to be hard to have Cannon removed from the case no matter what 11th court says about this brain-dead dismissal.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/18/politics/aileen-cannon-removal-trump-classified-documents/index.html

 

That is true.  But, that's not the only ground under which they could remand it to a different judge.  Two pretty bad rulings, some questionable but not unlawful docket management, her inexperience, the literally thousands of complaints the 11th Circuit Judicial Conference has received about her (most not actionable) and the fact that even other conservative district judges urged her to give it to another judge.  That all spells "the interest of justice."

It's far from a slam dunk, but it's more possible that it may initially seem.

And the ruling is heading pretty hard toward bonkers, a serious misapprehension of the Appointments Clause.

Edited by TwiceHorn
Posted
5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I still think Biden should pick a half dozen or so of those documents, declassify them, and publish them for everyone to see.  It would have to be done with some finesse -- nothing that would compromise national security but alarming enough to say "and these were the benign cases".

if Lincoln can suspend habeas corpus, then uncle joe should do the same thing and send Trump to Gitmo

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