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Common vernacular with objectionable origin


TexasHooch

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6 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Sometime around 2008 or so I was traveling through Duluth, Minnesota and encountered a fairly prominent coffee chain in the area named Beaners.  I was stunned that I was seeing it and quite surprised that was accepted in the area.  Read a few years back they changed the name,  which made sense.

Username checks out. 

People are Asian, and things are Oriental. 

One that I still occasionally struggle with is "gypsy" - gypsy curse, threaten to sell the boy to gypsies, etc., (but never "gypped"). 

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8 hours ago, slorch said:

If people don't want to consider context, then fuck em.

if they just wanna get their feelings hurted, they aren't going to last long anyway.

yeah, be better, but stop it with the eternal emotional injuries, as well.

Grow the fuck up and live life.

and real life steps up this week:  Had a peer fired this week for sending D pics to a newhire female out of college.  That's the shit I will never understand.  "well they've responded positively in the past"  has never been the reasoning, right?

I believe up in these parts that is now called Mel Tuckering yourself out of a job

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We had a younger-ish associate (mid 30’s) get fired a couple years ago for using a poor choice of words (racially charged) in a Facebook post.  It was a Fox News article that he left this particular comment on. 

Some completely random person saw the comment (it was bad), copied it and  emailed it to our general email for the company.  I guess his employer was listed on the bio page and was able to research our company to the point of fining our general email.  
 

Thankfully an admin person monitors the email and was able to delete it before it got out to the masses somehow. We fired him on the spo, which needed to happen. Not only did he show his true ethos, but had our/his clients seen the post before he deleted it,  would have been no bueno. 

Edited by jdhorn92
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"Mixed Race" and/or "Mixed Marriage" 

I think of the scene in 'Soul Man', arguably the most racially offensive movie of the 20th century and that includes the filmography of Mister Al Jolson.  When the building super tells the white guy that his roommate is a person of color and the guy responds with, "Mark, a black negro?  This is news to me."  I used that once in a class at UT when some student said something to the effect of, "Well, easy for you to say as a white person."  And I replied, "Me, I'm white?  My mother is from Mexico and my first language was Spanish but I'm white?  This is news to us both, I assure you."  She then inquired about my name which, admittedly, does not sound Hispanic at all.  She closed with, "Okay, so you're mixed race then?"  I moved on quickly to the finance topic at hand, but chuckled that somebody so 'progressive' still used the term 'mixed race.'  

Few years before that we were in my wife's church's pre-marital counseling sessions.  Totally fine with me to appease her family and diocese.  So the guy at some point said, "As a mixed marriage couple, here are some classes/books you can engage in order to prepare for the ceremony."  But my defensive ass was like "Uh, mixed marriage?  I know I'm Latino, but we don't really use that term anymore.  Plus my people are the only part of your church that's growing in size, not shrinking."  And Deacon said, "Sorry.  I meant mixed as in you checked Lutheran and Jewish on the form here.  Mixed as in non-Catholic marrying a Catholic without converting."  And I laughed "Oh, yeah...that's fine.  Catholic lists of Protestants and Jews, totally fine, I get it."    /csb

This time of year, I also like to say 'Happy Christmas' because I've been to more than one country in my lifetime.  Sorry for partying/traveling.  

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12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't know....I kind of wish "intent" would play more of a role in how we think of things that people do, both positively and negatively.

No big deal if you’re hurting offending other people as long as you didnt mean to? You’re better than that. However your intent can come into play. If your intent was ignorant or coming from a non-harmful place, then your apology might save your job.

Suggestion: if anyone believes intent should be interpretation factor, call someone at work the n-word but tell them it’s from a place of love and respect. See how that goes.

8 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

Oriental isn't offensive to real Asians.  Only Western Asians in just a few countries (USA/Australia) get butt hurt about it. 

Real Asians? I imagine there are terms that have varying degrees of offensiveness to different areas or cultures. It doesn’t change the offensiveness to some. Perhaps there are words can be said in Africa with offense but would get your ass kicked in America. Does that change anything?
 

(Another reply that I can’t find the post) Social media with fake news could potentially could create a false back story for a word’s origin. Like what happened with picnic. Which in turn can create uncertainty and perhaps will lead to that word losing its popularity. And if that happens, so what? Does anyone really want to be the person at a work party explaining that picnic really isn’t racist just because some used lynchings as a good excuse for a picnic? If a co-worker started to say that I would be Homer disappearing into the shrubs.

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21 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

WTF? I'm is as gringo as it gets and my wife's parents were both born in Mexico.  We talk about being a mixed marriage and our kids being mixed. I guessed we missed that memo. 

Well, yes as we both know there's nationality and then there's race and ethnicity.  I don't mind the term "mixed marriage" or "mixed race" in print but when it's being told to you by someone with a clearly condescending look on their face, I'm not offended but quite annoyed.  My mom's father is a Sephardic Jew from Iberia and her mother was an indigenous Indian from Northern Mexico.  I'm Hispanic/Latino//Chicano...whatever you wanna call it.  Not just a child of a Mexican National.  I don't really give a shit either way, but when a 21-year old who doesn't know shit about fuck Delta Gamma whiner tells me I'm too White to have an opinion...she can fuck right off...

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8 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

1970-80s Texas was a strange place.

Not as strange as 1950s-60s Texas when we moved here after being stationed overseas for years at integrated military posts.

”White/Colored” signs in most public facilities including the State Capitol, not to mention “separate but equal” schools.

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My country ass grew up thinking people were ‘chewing them down’ when negotiating price on something.  Had not a clue that it was straight up antisemitism.  Noted during high school years, saying that is way fucked up. 

Edited by slorch
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30 minutes ago, Native Horn said:

My son is half Hispanic, half Irish.  We call him our little Leprechauno.  

My great nephew is half Hispanic, and the other half a mix of German, French, English, Swiss. We call him Paxton (his actual name - and no relation to that crooked asshole AG).

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2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

No big deal if you’re hurting offending other people as long as you didnt mean to? You’re better than that. However your intent can come into play. If your intent was ignorant or coming from a non-harmful place, then your apology might save your job.

Suggestion: if anyone believes intent should be interpretation factor, call someone at work the n-word but tell them it’s from a place of love and respect. See how that goes.

That's obviously not what I meant.  I'm referring to the more innocuous terms/phrases that, if they have any racist connotation/history, it's far back in time, pretty disconnected from modern usage, or both.  I mean, if "OU sucks" turns out to have some racist history.....are all of us shitty people because we've been using it?  What if that "racist history" is debatable, so much so that it's unlikely that anyone has ever said that phrase with racist intent?

Some terms (n-word) are clearly racist.  There's very little room for "but I said it with good intent."

Some terms are clearly not racist, so they don't figure in.

And some terms have some sort of distant, or regional, or even dubious history/connotation that might have a racist meaning, but that the vast majority of people don't know about/have never heard of.  It's for this category that I think some consideration of intent should matter.  I also think the same thing about gender mislabeling.  Shit, I know people who have changed genders, after I knew them for decades as one gender.  I'm an old dude with a cemented memory, so it's hard to get their new gender right all the time.  I have no ill intent, I'm just a creature of habit.  I'd hope they'd consider my intent and circumstances on the occasions when I misgender them.  A little grace, that's what I'm suggesting.

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4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

That's obviously not what I meant.  I'm referring to the more innocuous terms/phrases that, if they have any racist connotation/history, it's far back in time, pretty disconnected from modern usage, or both.  I mean, if "OU sucks" turns out to have some racist history.....are all of us shitty people because we've been using it?  What if that "racist history" is debatable, so much so that it's unlikely that anyone has ever said that phrase with racist intent?

Some terms (n-word) are clearly racist.  There's very little room for "but I said it with good intent."

Some terms are clearly not racist, so they don't figure in.

And some terms have some sort of distant, or regional, or even dubious history/connotation that might have a racist meaning, but that the vast majority of people don't know about/have never heard of.  It's for this category that I think some consideration of intent should matter.  I also think the same thing about gender mislabeling.  Shit, I know people who have changed genders, after I knew them for decades as one gender.  I'm an old dude with a cemented memory, so it's hard to get their new gender right all the time.  I have no ill intent, I'm just a creature of habit.  I'd hope they'd consider my intent and circumstances on the occasions when I misgender them.  A little grace, that's what I'm suggesting.

You may be right but who gets to decide what history is enough in the past to declare it racism-free? 

As far as intent giving people some leeway, that is almost always been my experience in real life. Someone says something and they're told why it's wrong. As long as they don't repeat it, it's all good. Now saying the wrong thing on the internet or being filmed online gives someone zero leeway. 

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23 minutes ago, slorch said:

My country ass grew up thinking people were ‘chewing them down’ when negotiating price on something.  Had not a clue that it was straight up antisemitism.  Noted during high school years, saying that is way fucked up. 

I thought that as well for awhile before putting it together. Spending time in rural Nebraska, I've heard a lot of variations on what the help at the co-op is referred to as, along with comments about the football players in Lincoln. 

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1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

Not as strange as 1950s-60s Texas when we moved here after being stationed overseas for years at integrated military posts.

”White/Colored” signs in most public facilities including the State Capitol, not to mention “separate but equal” schools.

I grew up in north Austin pretty close to Airport Haven (burger joint) that was actually damn good and I distinctly remember they had a sign on the front door that said "Whites Only".

That would have been mid to late 60's.

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2 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

I grew up in north Austin pretty close to Airport Haven (burger joint) that was actually damn good and I distinctly remember they had a sign on the front door that said "Whites Only".

That would have been mid to late 60's.

Yep, my brother bought a house on Eastcrest north of St. John’s in 1962.

Those signs were gone by the time I was on the faculty at Webb Jr. High in 1970.

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4 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

I grew up in north Austin pretty close to Airport Haven (burger joint) that was actually damn good and I distinctly remember they had a sign on the front door that said "Whites Only".

That would have been mid to late 60's.

Fox Theater holla!!!  (Now the building where I get my car serviced)

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31 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Shit, what about the most famous golf tournament in the world, played in Georgia, with a plantation style clubhouse called The Masters ?

Or the KA frat in Austin with their “Old South Ball” and the Cowboys’ minstrel skit during Roundup?

 

 

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Edited by Armybrat
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16 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

....am I behaving insensitively when I spot three cupcakes on the counter and pick with an out loud "eenie meanie miney moe?"  I don't think I am.  But, that said...I do my best to avoid using the rhyme when around others, at least others outside my immediate family.

 

I think the least racist thing you can do in this situation is eat all three cupcakes, especially if one is vanilla, one is chocolate and one is lemon.

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3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

No big deal if you’re hurting offending other people as long as you didnt mean to? You’re better than that. However your intent can come into play. If your intent was ignorant or coming from a non-harmful place, then your apology might save your job.

Suggestion: if anyone believes intent should be interpretation factor, call someone at work the n-word but tell them it’s from a place of love and respect. See how that goes.

Real Asians? I imagine there are terms that have varying degrees of offensiveness to different areas or cultures. It doesn’t change the offensiveness to some. Perhaps there are words can be said in Africa with offense but would get your ass kicked in America. Does that change anything?
 

(Another reply that I can’t find the post) Social media with fake news could potentially could create a false back story for a word’s origin. Like what happened with picnic. Which in turn can create uncertainty and perhaps will lead to that word losing its popularity. And if that happens, so what? Does anyone really want to be the person at a work party explaining that picnic really isn’t racist just because some used lynchings as a good excuse for a picnic? If a co-worker started to say that I would be Homer disappearing into the shrubs.

Just me, but I believe that fake anger-bait that is designed to incite divisions and advance ignorance is worth pushing back on. 

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I was in DC traffic driving between NYC and Raleigh with my wife asleep and the baby who had been crying relentlessly who I had just managed to get to sleep by sining along with a maddeningly short cocomelon playlist. And so I found myself seemingly for hours singing along with the same 7 Cocomelon songs while the baby tenuously napped in the background and I was too afraid to change anything at all. And by the 8th or 9th go round of Baa Baa Black Sheep I had convinced myself that this surely must be racist somehow

Quote

Baa, baa, black sheep,
Have you any wool?
Yes, sir, yes, sir,
Three bags full.

One for my master,
One for my dame,
And one for the little boy
Who lives down the lane.[1]

black sheep walking down the road gettting shook down for wool not just for the master and the dame, but for the little boy too. I looked it up and apparently it is highly common for people to think that there's some racial connection but actually there is no historical evidence supporting that at all

 

 

master/slave in CS (which, come on - I don't think anyone sees "master their craft" in a similar light), one of my biggest "oh holy fuck what did I just do" moments in my career was just a few months in to my first job, I was doing some manual software testing on a little app that was supposed to transfer aircraft data. I was playing around with the comment field, renaming aircraft ID, etc. It was a very nerd culture, I had a big R2D2 unit sitting on my desk. I thought about Star Wars and imagined that we were receiving data from Boba Fett's flight from the Cloud City. Aircraft ID - Slave I. Comments: Human Cargo

that took about 90 seconds before my asshole puckered shut and I scrambled to learn how to scrub the whole system of any trace of a collection

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Here's one.  The mention of mixed-race, etc. upthread reminded me of a word that was common in my central Texas upbringing in the 70-80s but I hadn't heard in a while (Mulatto).

Imagine my surprise when I'm listening to the radio one day a few years back and the new creation from Dairy Queen is advertised...

dq_moolattes.thumb.webp.5b0081bdd3ceedbb7aa6698d1d0eaec1.webp

 

Fuck me runnin' does anyone review these product names?

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11 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Just me, but I believe that fake anger-bait that is designed to incite divisions and advance ignorance is worth pushing back on. 

I agree that some people look for reasons to be offended but I don't see that a older white guy is the person who gets to decide what is and isn't racist. But I have several acquaintances who are in the 50+ white demographic and they seem to think it's their job to decide what is and isn't racist. I've heard more than once, "why can't I say what I want?"

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2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Some folks argue that is not a racist pejorative. 
Go figure. Lol

Buncha racist white people have made it their mission to say this is racist against whites because they are angry they can't say the n-word anymore. It isn't about all white people but specifically dumb ignorant southern white people. It's also not about skin color in general its about sunburned necks from working the fields or whatever. It's an insult for sure but not based on race, and even if it is, I'm not going to rehash how its different than slurs against Black people and other historically mistreated minorities. I don't use it mixed company anymore because there's always "that guy" who pretends its the same as real racial slurs. Not worth my effort.

Edited by 'stache
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7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I agree that some people look for reasons to be offended but I don't see that a older white guy is the person who gets to decide what is and isn't racist. But I have several acquaintances who are in the 50+ white demographic and they seem to think it's their job to decide what is and isn't racist. I've heard more than once, "why can't I say what I want?"

I think what I’m getting at is that there needs to be some standards and measuring stick beyond “truthiness” and what feels right. Which would definitely not weigh the feels of old white guys who want to “say what I want” very strongly. 

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15 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I agree that some people look for reasons to be offended but I don't see that an older white guy is the person who gets to decide what is and isn't racist. But I have several acquaintances who are in the 50+ white demographic and they seem to think it's their job to decide what is and isn't racist. I've heard more than once, "why can't I say what I want?"

They CAN say what the want.  They just aren’t exempt from other people’s reactions. 
 

I’m 53YO white dude and most definitely see that from my mom’s generation, not so much from people my age. 

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19 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I think what I’m getting at is that there needs to be some standards and measuring stick beyond “truthiness” and what feels right. Which would definitely not weigh the feels of old white guys who want to “say what I want” very strongly. 

I dunno.  Maybe I just come back to where I've been for a long-ass time: take a balanced and human approach.

That means you, old white guys, don't get to bitch about "why do they get to say the n-word in their rap music, but I can't say it?!?!?"  You know you shouldn't say the n-word.  Period.  So don't be a dick.  And, when someone tells you, nicely, that "I know you think using the term 'colored' is a nicer way to go about things, but really, that's racist too and I'd prefer it if you didn't use it," do your best to shift your usage.

It ALSO means that people shouldn't be desperately searching around for some reason to be offended by truly inoffensive terms.  "You can't use the word 'rope.' because ropes were used in lynchings!" or some shit like that.

 

If you're in a position of social power (like you're an old white guy) If you learn that something is genuinely offensive, make a real effort to avoid doing it, because that's the good and decent thing to do.

And if you're a minority/member of a group not in great social power, don't be looking to be offended by every little innocuous thing.  When some dude says "eenie meanie miney moe," he's not looking to convey ANY racial message, or carry any racist baggage.

TLDR: just don't be fucking dicks, people.

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I don't get the offense of the verb mastered or the adjective master used in most contexts.  The term Master Electrician probably does not date back to the Antebellum South.  There is a difference between master bedroom and master's bedroom.  Referring to boys under 12 as master as opposed to mister isn't racist and if the boy's last name is Bates - should evoke snickering from all.

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Lame BDSM jokes aside, I appreciate the discussion. When I was approached yesterday I was filled with anxiety because I thought: Shit, now what? If a term like "grandfathered" can get past my decades of using it, now what?  I've always tried to be mindful of the words I use, and the obvious ones are easy.  But if that one can slip past, what else am I saying that I shouldn't be?

I think the bottom line here is to try to be mindful that these terms and idioms are out there, but realize that we're not going to catch them all.  We just need to be thoughtful and responsive when it's brought to our attention.

 

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Late-60s/early-70s we played "Smear the Queer" all the time, but some adult made us quit saying that and we switched to "Pitch Up and Smear." I don't recall who told us to do that, but we must have had a rare amount of respect for them, because we stuck with it.

Around 4th grade, I was in a Minstrel Show. I didn't know it was one, it just seemed like a very weird Stephen-Foster-ish music program. Miraculously, we were not put in blackface. I am sure that the teachers discussed it. Can still remember a couple of the songs, maybe I should belt them out whenever my KA neighbor is having another loud party.

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